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JRS Landscaping
12-22-2006, 09:38 PM
what engine do you perfer in your truck? i have an IH t444e (powerstoke) made by international in a ford f250

procut
12-22-2006, 10:09 PM
Diesel pick-ups never made sense to me. There are very few people who actually need one.

JRS Landscaping
12-22-2006, 10:13 PM
yea i agree but mine pulls like a bat outta hell

J&R Landscaping
12-22-2006, 11:20 PM
Depends on what type of truck its going in. In a dump truck, I'd prefer a diesel for the extra torque and longevity while pulling. For a mowing truck, I'd want a gas engine because of all the starting and shutting off.

heather lawn sp
12-23-2006, 05:51 AM
6.6 Duramax
05 2500HD
06 2500HD

Mowers and trailer 4800 pounds
snow plowing - - -operating range approximately 25 hours per tank fill-up
CARRYING 463 Bobcat skid steer

Tadams
12-23-2006, 11:18 AM
I've got gas burners in all of my stuff. I would like to have diesel powered trucks but the exhaust fumes from diesels gives me a headache.

DBL
12-23-2006, 03:37 PM
diesel but ill take what i can get we have one diesel and three gassers

procut
12-23-2006, 11:49 PM
You guys are crazy. Diesel pick-ups are the biggest waste of $$$$ IMO.

heather lawn sp
12-24-2006, 07:55 AM
You guys are crazy. Diesel pick-ups are the biggest waste of $$$$ IMO.

Just outa curiousity, have you ever USED one?

Rons Rightway Lawncare
12-24-2006, 09:26 AM
I have had a slew of gas trucks, and two diesels. I agree with Procut.

Diesel fuel costs more....

Diesel engines require more expensive oil, and twice the amount of oil, and more expensive filters, etc, at oil changes.....

Diesels are loud....

Diesels are smelly....

Diesel fuel is smelly...

Diesel engines, parts and service for one is extremely expensive.....




A friend has a Dodge with a cummins, it is a one or two year old truck. His starter went out on it. Wanna guess how much just a starter is??? Over 700$. Imagine what it will cost to replace a cylinder head, or the turbo, or any of the other systems..... At least with a gas engine you can buy a complete shortblock for very little money, and parts are cheaper.

Todays diesel trucks are tuned for max horsepower, and max torque. Sorry guys but diesel fuel is not magic.... It does produce slightly more heat per pound than gasoline does when burned, but it still takes alot of fuel to make alot of power. Todays diesel trucks do not get very impressive mpg. My same friend who has the dodge with the cummins averages 9 mpg, and this is a mix of just the truck driving in town, and towing a 16 foot enclosed lawn trailer in town. Sorry dudes, but 9 mpg is not anything special. The same truck with a V-8 Hemi would do the same job and get the same mpg.... yet cost less for fuel, less for service, and less to buy.

If you were to compared diesel trucks to gas trucks 10 years ago, the diesels were a good choice. Fuel was less for diesel than gas back then.... And the diesels made alot less horsepower, yet had strong torque, so they could pull a heavy trailer and still get good mpg and last a long time, which was the only real worthy reason to own a diesel in the first place.


Now if you two a 10,000 pound trailer around with a backhoe or bulldozer on it, well a diesel is probably the only practical choice. But for the average lawn guy, a diesel is a waste of money.

PLM-1
12-24-2006, 02:04 PM
Diesel all the way. My 04 has over 70k on it. In another year with what I pull, the distance I pull it, a gasser would be DEAD. I also get about 16 mpg on the highway loaded. I KNOW a gasser won't get that, I used to play that game.

procut
12-24-2006, 03:04 PM
Just outa curiousity, have you ever USED one?

Yes, on several occasions. I have never owned one, and probably never will. I am talking about pick-up trucks here, 1 ton or less, in trucks larger than this, diesel probably would be the better option. I'm not trying to start an argument here, but this honestly what I think.

For the type of work I do, a long with about 90% of other people, a diesel is just not nessecery. Buying the biggest baddest diesel truck you can find to pull 6000 pounds or less is stupid IMO. I've pulled some incredible loads with gas V8s, and they always got the job done. I just cannot justify the extra $6000 +/- new and an extra 50 cents a gallon for diesel.

Sure a deisel may last longer, but if properly maintained a gas engine today should run 200,000 miles plus. Sure, you may get more longivity out of a diesel engine, but after that many miles, the rest of the truck is probably going to be pretty tired.

And the fuel enconomy argument is irrelevent as far as I'm concerned. It would take years, to make up in fuel savings when you factor in the origional cost of the diesel engine vs. gas new. Also, diesel fuel is almost always more than gasoline. And you sure as hell better hope you don't have any problems with that engine, because the repair bill will most likely be a lot higher than if it were gas engine.

I think most guys buy diesel pick-up trucks becasue they want that "macho" feeling.

Precision
12-25-2006, 11:40 AM
my gas truck pulling my open 16' trailer gets 8-9MPG
My diesel truck pulling the same rig gets 16+ MPG

the gasser is 2WD with skinny tires. '84 Dodge 250 with 100k miles
the diesel is 4WD with tall fat tires. '95 Dodge 2500 with 130k miles

My father's gasser with skinny tires. 2005 Dodge 1500 with 38K gets 10-11 MPG pulling the same rig.
A buddy gets 22-24 mpg with his 2005 Powerstroke, 19-21 MPG pulling his rig

As far as the gas mileage vs initial cost. here are my actual miles vs mileage vs price
20,000 miles x 1250 gallons x $2.59 = total diesel fuel cost $3237.50 (16 MPG)
20,000 miles x 2000 gallons x $2.29 = total gas fuel cost $4580 (10 MPG)
total annual savings $1342.

So in 4 years or 80K miles you have paid off the "extra" cost of the engine. And you will recover most of that at trade in anyway.

Another thing is I can (when I stop being lazy) make my own diesel. sure can't make my own gas.

and the original cost difference is a none issue because it will retain most of that difference come trade in time. And in the mean time you get 30-70% better fuel mileage.

I seriously doubt I will ever own another fullsized gas truck. If I want a truck but don't want to seriously use it, I will buy a Ranger, Frontier or other runabout.

And for me it isn't about macho. It is about reliability. Having reserve power. Not to mention getting 420 miles out of a tank of fuel as opposed to 240 miles.

Sunscaper
12-25-2006, 08:52 PM
I agree with Ron. I have two diesels and lately wonder what the benefit is. With the cost of diesel usually $.30 more per gallon it makes me wonder. The tow loads better but beyond that I think they're a waste of money.

mattfromNY
12-25-2006, 09:02 PM
Got one to throw out at ya... Got a few friends (6 to be exact) that have converted their diesels to run on COOKING OIL. Not landscapers, just average Joe's that drive for all different reasons. Actually have one farm that is considering running a few of their tractors that way, too. Can convert a diesel truck for $700.00 with the auxiliary tank, $400 without the tank. Now, if you dont want to hit up the local pizzeria for old oil and have to filter it, etc., I have a friend that buys fresh soybean oil in 55 gallon drums for $1/ gallon. He gets 20 miles per gallon with a full size Dodge Dually Crew Cab, has all the torque he ever got on Diesel, and has had NO problems in 2 years. One other friend wanted to see how cheap he could drive for a year, he only used 6 gallons of diesel all year (to start the truck and get it to temp.) in 3600 miles. He ran it 12 months out of the year, winter around here gets pretty cold, no problems. He got his fuel from pizza shops and restaurants. This was with an older Ford cube van at a time when our local fuel prices were over $3.00/ gallon... AND the best thing is, the LOOP HOLE, Run it to pull your mowers all summer, then STILL write off your mileage at the end of the year.

Precision
12-25-2006, 11:32 PM
Got one to throw out at ya... Got a few friends (6 to be exact) that have converted their diesels to run on COOKING OIL. Not landscapers, just average Joe's that drive for all different reasons. Actually have one farm that is considering running a few of their tractors that way, too. Can convert a diesel truck for $700.00 with the auxiliary tank, $400 without the tank. Now, if you dont want to hit up the local pizzeria for old oil and have to filter it, etc., I have a friend that buys fresh soybean oil in 55 gallon drums for $1/ gallon. He gets 20 miles per gallon with a full size Dodge Dually Crew Cab, has all the torque he ever got on Diesel, and has had NO problems in 2 years. One other friend wanted to see how cheap he could drive for a year, he only used 6 gallons of diesel all year (to start the truck and get it to temp.) in 3600 miles. He ran it 12 months out of the year, winter around here gets pretty cold, no problems. He got his fuel from pizza shops and restaurants. This was with an older Ford cube van at a time when our local fuel prices were over $3.00/ gallon... AND the best thing is, the LOOP HOLE, Run it to pull your mowers all summer, then STILL write off your mileage at the end of the year.


It is alot more complicated than just dumping used veg oil in and running. Spot price on soybean oil is way higher than $1 per gallon. More like $2.50

If you have a 2 tank system you can do that so long as for the first 10-15 minutes and last 10-15 minutes you run on dino diesel. Otherwise you will be putting in new injectors every 2-3 years. Coking.

In the areas that get cold you will also need a tank heater to keep the veg oil warm enough to flow.

The much better way is to create a "still" and brew that veg oil into bio-diesel.

In addition to the many other advantages, it isn't just getting out the chunks that needs to happen before running used veg oil. Salt, acid, soap can all be in there too.

Bio-diesel is 100% mixable with dino-diesel and you can run B100 in the summer and cut it with dino as the cold weather comes in to keep the gel properties consistent with dino diesel.

Additionally bio-diesel is a way better lubricator, emmissions reducer and engine cleaner than dino diesel or SVO (straight veg oil).

Rons Rightway Lawncare
12-25-2006, 11:59 PM
The problem with bio diesel and using soybean oils and so on, is who has the time to do all this stuff? If you got the time to cook up your own fuels and go to the troubles of collecting, storing, and mixing fuels to use, then you could just add on one or two more accounts and spend a little more to buy diesel at your local gas station!

True, if fuel prices end up WAY out of control and your looking at 5 or 6 dollar a gallon diesel fuel, then the diesel owners will have a nice option for cheap fuel, but todays prices don't justify the added time and efforts to save .50 to a dollar a gallon right now.

Also wonder with the new diesel trucks coming out with converters and other devices to cut emissions, will these homebrew oils hurt these trucks?

Also I call BS on anyone with a diesel truck made in the last 2-3 years that claims to be getting 18+ mpg, especially pulling any sizable trailer. The only way they are going to get that kind of MPG is going 50-55 mph on the highway. Run with traffic on the interstate ( 80mph+ ) and these trucks are doing good to see 15 mpg tops. Tow something with them and the MPG drops....

Is it a macho thing?..... maybe to some degree. I think alot of it does have to do with some type of percieved image. But I know when I bought my two diesel trucks it was about power and good milage and I believed I was buying trucks I would be able to keep for 20 years - but I was just kidding myself as I can't keep something more than 2-3 years before I am ready to trade in or sell towards a NEW one, so long life for me really isn't a big factor.

Some are saying trade in value is so much higher than it makes up for the increased cost of the diesel trucks purchase. I think they are partly correct, but I can tell you that if you pay 5 grand more for a diesel truck, it will not sell used or it's used trade in value for 5 grand more than the gas truck! Plus you paid more in payments, interest, more in property taxes, sales taxes, fuel, etc.... for that diesel engine! It just doesn't add up for me in the real world.

My pickup truck I was using for the last year and a half till I got the Isuzu is a Chevy Silverado regular cab 2wd 1500. It is basically a standard "worktruck" but with the addition of cloth seat and cruise control. It has a small 4.8 liter V8 and a automatic transmission and a low 3.23 to 1 rear axle ratio. I pulled a 6.5 by 16 foot landscape trailer with it, with two mowers, gas jugs, trimmers, etc... etc.... on it daily. I estimated the total weight around 5000 pounds, and at times over 7500 pounds when loaded with fertilizer as well as the mowing equipment. This truck never got less than 12.5 mpg, and usually would average 13.5 mpg. If driven easy and not left sitting idle with the engine running for long - like while I sat in the shade eating lunch with the A/C blowing - I could get as much as 14.5 pulling this trailer. I know a 2006/2007 model diesel truck would have a hard time doing much better with the same trailer, same load. Maybe a extra 1-3 mpg at best.

True, some older gas trucks are terrible MPG wise.... But most newer trucks will not be too far behind the diesel for MPG. My gas powered isuzu is a very heavy truck, and I am getting on average 9 to 9.5 mpg.... Exact same MPG my friend is getting with his Diesel Dodge ram pulling his lawn trailer around. My truck was about 15 to 20 grand less expensive, less expensive on taxes and insurance, and I am saving 20-30 cents per gallon on fuel over what he is spending... and were both doing the same thing with our trucks. I just don't see the advantage to the diesel....!

btw... We were talking the other day about trucks and he said he won't buy another diesel again. He said he will go back to gas for all future trucks. We didn't get into why, but that is what he said. He has 3 crews going out each day, one in a 2001 Ram with Cummins, one in a 2005 Ram with Cummins, and one in a 2004 Ram 1500 with 4.7 liter Gas

procut
12-26-2006, 12:05 AM
Ron has hit it right on the head.

snoope
12-26-2006, 01:08 PM
Just to ad my 2 cents...

I've been watching and questioning the "bigger LC's" up here and they are about split on this...The heavier units do MUCH better w/ diesel powa while the small units do much better gas wise...
1) pick the right truck and powa for what you will use it for,correct???

Company I currently drive for has a mix also,supers and lite duty have gas and anything pulling a trailer is diesel..( if any of our folks gets caught at 80+mph even the "Petercar's " towing a trailer.....there GONE:nono: :nono: .try stopping with a blowout or a lane drifter).....but thats another thread at another time....:walking: :walking:

Last item,try plowing through a whole storm and see how many times you will fuel that gasser versus the diesel....Again purchasing what you are going to use.....

If my plans turn to reality a 3/4 ton 4 wheel drive diesel powa with plow will be MY way to go.....the 2nd truck will depend on need ( and TUNDRAS new look,power and load rating)....or a 450 diesel xlt dump...time and $$$$$ will tell...

Snoope back quiet...

Everyone go out enjoy a Happy and prosperous New Year......

02DURAMAX
12-27-2006, 12:20 AM
DIESEL ALL THE WAY!!!:weightlifter: :cool2: My buddy has an 01 Duramax that does RV Camper transport with it.And it has 355,000 miles all stock all he does is change the oil every 3k miles with mobil 1 Synthetic oil.

ed2hess
12-31-2006, 06:58 PM
my gas truck pulling my open 16' trailer gets 8-9MPG
My diesel truck pulling the same rig gets 16+ MPG

the gasser is 2WD with skinny tires. '84 Dodge 250 with 100k miles
the diesel is 4WD with tall fat tires. '95 Dodge 2500 with 130k miles

My father's gasser with skinny tires. 2005 Dodge 1500 with 38K gets 10-11 MPG pulling the same rig.
A buddy gets 22-24 mpg with his 2005 Powerstroke, 19-21 MPG pulling his rig

As far as the gas mileage vs initial cost. here are my actual miles vs mileage vs price
20,000 miles x 1250 gallons x $2.59 = total diesel fuel cost $3237.50 (16 MPG)
20,000 miles x 2000 gallons x $2.29 = total gas fuel cost $4580 (10 MPG)
total annual savings $1342.

So in 4 years or 80K miles you have paid off the "extra" cost of the engine. And you will recover most of that at trade in anyway.

Another thing is I can (when I stop being lazy) make my own diesel. sure can't make my own gas.

and the original cost difference is a none issue because it will retain most of that difference come trade in time. And in the mean time you get 30-70% better fuel mileage.

I seriously doubt I will ever own another fullsized gas truck. If I want a truck but don't want to seriously use it, I will buy a Ranger, Frontier or other runabout.

And for me it isn't about macho. It is about reliability. Having reserve power. Not to mention getting 420 miles out of a tank of fuel as opposed to 240 miles.
You must have some kind of special diesel trucks our new Chev isn't going to get anything close to 16mpg around the city?

PLM-1
12-31-2006, 08:20 PM
You must have some kind of special diesel trucks our new Chev isn't going to get anything close to 16mpg around the city?

It's all in how you drive them. I do, i tend to let my truck idle all the time and i get NO LESS than 14 around town.

Willofalltrades
01-03-2007, 04:31 PM
Ron pretty much said it. I'm in a debate weather to get a gas or diesel this spring. A 2006 Ford F350 crew cab with duals in the back gets around 13.7-14.1 mpg. Thats stated by the computer in the truck (Although reciently hes been getting 12 mpg under normal driving conditions he thinks water in the fuel? I donno). Anyway, You won't be able to come close to a NEW diesel truck with anything home grown. If you put non-low-sulfer fuel in a 2007 diesel truck with the new cummins and powerstroke engines you will do harm to it. I still am not sure which I want.

Willofalltrades
01-03-2007, 04:34 PM
Anybody wish Ford still had the 7.3L?

JRS Landscaping
01-03-2007, 06:19 PM
Anybody wish Ford still had the 7.3L?

yes i do:mad:

fiveoboy01
01-03-2007, 07:36 PM
I, for one, like the "noise" emitted from a diesel engine.

My F-250 was purchased with a gas engine, for 2 reasons:

I couldn't afford the extra 100 or so bucks a month for the diesel option

I just don't see a diesel as a necessity to pull an 18' open trailer with a couple mowers on it.

That being said, if I could have afforded it, I would have bought the diesel anyways. I just think they're cool, and the large amounts of torque make towing effortless.

There's also something to be said for the longevity of a diesel engine. But, like someone else said, they don't like being started and stopped constantly throughout the day. Deposits build up faster doing that.

They both have their place, that's for sure. But I voted Diesel:)

J&R Landscaping
01-03-2007, 08:06 PM
Anybody wish Ford still had the 7.3L?

I did the like the 7.3 diesel, both the turbo and non-turbo idi versions. Once the 6.0 got all the bugs out, it seemed to be a good engine. I wouldnt mind having one of the 6.0's now.

Willofalltrades
01-03-2007, 11:38 PM
I wish it was here too, I'll look for a low mile unit with one. Hopefully I can hit the lotto and find one owned by a grandpa. That way you know it was babied. lol

bigcountry01
01-22-2007, 09:56 PM
just bought a 2003 f250 crew cab long bed, diesel last november and love it. i had a 96 f150 before that, it had a 5.0 v8 and i was gettin about 9-10 mpg with it. im gettin about 16 average mpg now. i got a really good deal on the truck otherwise i probably wouldnt of gotten it. i do love the power though...sounds dang good too. they hate cold mornings though.

macgyver
01-22-2007, 11:10 PM
I've got gas burners in all of my stuff. I would like to have diesel powered trucks but the exhaust fumes from diesels gives me a headache.

The fumes from diesels should make you happy(nitrous oxide)

cleancutccl
01-23-2007, 09:02 AM
we run all gas engines, mostly because we trade in or sell out right our trucks after 5 years, so the longevity of a diesel makes no sense to me. Now with the 5 year warranties on all vehicles, they really don't make sense to me. We are getting more and more calls for landscaping services in other cities 30-60 minutes away, if this continues I will move towards diesel trucks for the landscape crews. However, our mowing crews only have gas, even gas isuzus. I just can't justify the extra 10000 bucks to MAYBE get a couple extra miles per gallon.

J&R Landscaping
01-23-2007, 12:34 PM
The fumes from diesels should make you happy(nitrous oxide)

Make you happy now, make you dead later! (refering to the lead in the exhuast leading to lung cancer) For a diesel nut like me, I consider it an honorable way to go though as it deals with somethign you like! :laugh: :hammerhead:

Rufscape
02-06-2007, 08:43 PM
I've got to say it.....you make alot of sense man. I will continue to use gas trucks;however, for tax purposes diesel is a better deductable right?

I have had a slew of gas trucks, and two diesels. I agree with Procut.

Diesel fuel costs more....

Diesel engines require more expensive oil, and twice the amount of oil, and more expensive filters, etc, at oil changes.....

Diesels are loud....

Diesels are smelly....

Diesel fuel is smelly...

Diesel engines, parts and service for one is extremely expensive.....




A friend has a Dodge with a cummins, it is a one or two year old truck. His starter went out on it. Wanna guess how much just a starter is??? Over 700$. Imagine what it will cost to replace a cylinder head, or the turbo, or any of the other systems..... At least with a gas engine you can buy a complete shortblock for very little money, and parts are cheaper.

Todays diesel trucks are tuned for max horsepower, and max torque. Sorry guys but diesel fuel is not magic.... It does produce slightly more heat per pound than gasoline does when burned, but it still takes alot of fuel to make alot of power. Todays diesel trucks do not get very impressive mpg. My same friend who has the dodge with the cummins averages 9 mpg, and this is a mix of just the truck driving in town, and towing a 16 foot enclosed lawn trailer in town. Sorry dudes, but 9 mpg is not anything special. The same truck with a V-8 Hemi would do the same job and get the same mpg.... yet cost less for fuel, less for service, and less to buy.

If you were to compared diesel trucks to gas trucks 10 years ago, the diesels were a good choice. Fuel was less for diesel than gas back then.... And the diesels made alot less horsepower, yet had strong torque, so they could pull a heavy trailer and still get good mpg and last a long time, which was the only real worthy reason to own a diesel in the first place.


Now if you two a 10,000 pound trailer around with a backhoe or bulldozer on it, well a diesel is probably the only practical choice. But for the average lawn guy, a diesel is a waste of money.

Rons Rightway Lawncare
02-07-2007, 10:37 AM
what do you mean a larger deductable? You understand how deductables work right?...... basically for every dollar you spend on a deductable item, you will save 25-35 cents per dollar due to the deduction. But if you spend 5 grand more, you still spend 5 grand more, so yes you get a larger deduction, but your spending more too, to in the end it still costs more to own the diesel.

razor1
02-07-2007, 01:42 PM
Used value on the exact same 2002 truck, 5.4 gas engine vs. 7.3 diesel

2002 F250 Super Duty Diesel.....
Excellent $15,470
Good $14,515
Fair $13,285


2002 F250 Super Duty Gas......
Excellent $10,350
Good $9,655
Fair $8,780

Maybe you get your money back?

source: http://www.kbb.com

Snyderserv5060
02-07-2007, 03:11 PM
Diesel fan here, and yes ive had both

When I upgraded from my 1500 Ram (5.2 V8 Gas) I was pretty much set on a diesel. While yea it may cost more for the truck, repairs and fuel I personally feel the benefits well out weigh it. I ended up getting a 01 F350 with the proven 7.3 :)

Pull around heavy loads for 60-100k on a gasser and im sure the trucks going to be showing signs of its use...A diesel truck its essentially just broken in around 80-100k and tons of miles are not uncommon with the proper care. I keep up on my maintenance for the truck and yes it requires 15qt's of oil, and more expensive parts for repair work but its not that big a factor to me. Think about it 500+ lbs of tq out of a proven and reliable setup...this truck will be around until the body falls apart. Factor in fuel, I dont know about all of your gassers but let me say my 5.2 Ram got 10-11 highway when id make a trip from MD to NC a few times a year. This past summer my F350 Dually averaged 16-17 MPG, slightly less now because I put 33" tires and its now winter but that alone is a big difference...this is not even considering what happens when I pull.

Everyone had a different set of needs and expectations out of thier truck which will clearly impact their choices. I understand the noise and smell may not be desirable to all but with technology diesels run soo much quieter and burn cleaner. As also stated above look at resale value of diesels over gassers, that alone is often alone worth the initial price increase for the engine option.

Last, this may be just something I look at but to anyone who has intentions of modding their truck... Ive read countless articles (and had hands on experience) with gas -vs- diesel trucks and their resonse to modifications. This summer my truck will have an intake, exhaust and a chip and for sure a ton more pulling power and economy settings :) For a similar price make the same power out of a gasser?

Again just my opinion but my votes diesel and just learn to do general maintenance on your own

sdelorey494103
02-27-2007, 12:11 PM
I have a Toyota Tundra with a 3.4 in it. Five speed manual, 190 horse and 200 torque or something like that. I was wondering for a little buisness like carrying around a 1000 pound trailer and at most two ride on and at most 2 push with some weedwackers/trimmers. I would be carrying loads in the bed of my truck along with the trailer. I just wanted to hear some opinions on that one. I started a year ago and this is my second year so im trying to get a little advice.

Snyderserv5060
02-27-2007, 01:26 PM
My first truck was an 87 toyota 4x4 2.4 (4cyl) 5 speed... I pulled a 12ft trailer with 2 walkers regurally and often mulch. Its not going to be a great towing platform but for a start and for lighter towing it will work.

sdelorey494103
02-27-2007, 05:06 PM
How long or should i say how many miles will the truck last you say with a huge trailer on it?

sdelorey494103
02-27-2007, 05:08 PM
How long would a small engine like that last though hauling huge trailers and alot of weight because there will be a lot of trees being towed

GreenN'Clean
02-27-2007, 05:18 PM
I have gas engines and im fine with them

GreenN'Clean
02-27-2007, 05:19 PM
Diesels are good but when something breaks it costs out the a$$ to get it fixed

sdelorey494103
02-27-2007, 05:50 PM
You guys think a 3.4 toyota would last hauling 2500 pounds? 6 months?

mosmgras
04-11-2007, 08:17 PM
For me its diesel. I produce homebrew biodiesel so it's a no-brainer.

TN Property Services
04-12-2007, 10:32 AM
Diesel all the way.
06 Chevy 2500 HD Duramax LBZ

Ramairfreak98ss
04-12-2007, 12:17 PM
i know all you guys have your pros/cons... to each his own, if your towing a load, there is NO way you want to use gas, period.. I have both, all fords, i drive a lot of stuff and my stock 6.0L diesel would easily out do ANY modified or stock gas truck ive ever driven or been in..

JKEnterprise
04-12-2007, 12:33 PM
I agree with the overall opinion in that it really depends on needs. I have a small stone supply business & have pulled many loads (12,000 lbs to occasional 20,000 lbs) with my 2003 Dodge 1-ton.

With the Cummins diesel w/ 4.11 rear I get 16+ mpg (mixed hwy/short miles) and 13+ mpg towing. I have excellent torque (especially because of the rear gear) but I'm through all 4 gear changes by 60 mph so I bet I would get 18+ mpg w/ an overdrive (or different rear). However, I like how my truck is setup for regular pulling stone loads.

I think gas would probably be okay for light loads (lawn maint - mowers & such). For landscapers that regularly pull skidsteers and/or hardscape installers maybe the diesel makes more sense.. Just my opinion.

MOWALLTHETIME
04-12-2007, 02:26 PM
I Agree With Rons Rightwat Lawncare If You Are Pulling 16 Ft Trailer With Couple Of Mowers And All The Accessories A 3/4 Gas Burner Truck Is The Way To Go. If You Are Pulling Around Bobcats, Compact Tractors And Other Equipment Then Diesel Is Best Route. Alot Of Guys I Know Who Have Had Diesels And Don't Actually Need Them Have Good Hind Site. Our Diesel Is $3.05 Gal Why Gas Is $2.60 And Climbing And It Is Early April Wait Until July Or August, Who Knows What Fuel Will Be. One Of My Trucks Is A 3/4 Chevy With 150,000 Miles On It Once The Engine Goes An New Rebuilt Engine And Trans Will Go About $4500 And I'll Get Another 100,000 Miles Out Of It And 4500 Is A Whole Lot Cheaper Than $8600 The Dealer Wanted For The Diesel Option. Just My Opinon Though. I Will Also Give The Diesel Guys Credit There Trucks "flat Foot Get It" When Towing.

causalitist
08-13-2007, 03:16 AM
i hate driving diesels. i hate the sound, hate the low rpms, they rev sooo slow.
they always feel like they have an 800 pound flywheel or something.

for business ... i could endure and would use a little diesel truck.. like a ford ranger with a small diesel engine .. that i would do, but just because it would last long and be decent on fuel.

mower&more1986
09-09-2007, 08:42 PM
the diesel fuel is cheaper and i dont make payments on my truck.:usflag:

stroker51
09-09-2007, 11:57 PM
Diesel if you are pulling anything. It doesnt make sense to buy a new diesel, with all the emissions restrictions and everything else, but a used Dodge with a 5.9 cummins, Ford with the 7.3, both good trucks with proven track records. I'm around way too many Fords and Dodges that are crowding 300K and that have had little to no major repairs versus at least one new engine in that same time period for a gasser. I'd rather know I have the power with my Powerstroke that i need to pull whatever i might need to for my job, than to have a truck that either won't handle what i need it to do, or only get 6 mpg doing it.

Rons Rightway Lawncare
09-10-2007, 08:03 AM
Ridiculous to buy a more expensive diesel truck to tow a light trailer. Period.... Your just buying into the redneck, wanna be a truck driver, she thinks my tractors sexy, mind set of you feel you just have to have a diesel truck to tow around a small trailer with your lawnmowers on it.

The diesel trucks DO break down.... Fords especially. They are far more expensive to fix than a gasoline truck.

And the newest diesels don't get much better miles per gallon than a gasoline truck.

The fact that diesels last 300 thousand miles is great, but there are plenty of gasoline trucks with that many miles on them too.

I think that 15 years ago, the diesels offered made far less power, and were under far less stress than todays diesels. Todays diesels make more horsepower and torque than any of the gasoline engines. Horsepower costs you in increased fuel consumption and lowered engine lifespan.

And the fuel still costs more per gallon!


Now granted, if your towing a skid steer, or a bulldozer, or a 20+ foot long large enclosed trailer, or anything much heavier than 6000 pounds, ON a Daily basis.... well then you need a diesel. But if you normally just tow a 4000-6000 pound lawn trailer around 90 percent of the time, and only once or twice a year haul anything heavier, the gasoline truck is a better choice overall.

Were talking new trucks here too by the way. If you are going to buy a 10+ year old used truck to save some money, the Diesels may be better to look at then, as the diesels then were less complicated, got better MPG, and were more reliable, especially the Cummins engines.

lawnandplow42
09-14-2007, 05:23 PM
they both have ups and downs, which i'm not getting into cuz i feel like i've debated this too many times with people.

I like a diesel dump truck or flat bed, and a gas job pickup for mowing

CALandscapes
12-23-2007, 01:17 AM
While gas engines certainly have their benefits (namely cost and fuel consumption), I will probably never buy a gas again..
I pull 10k lb. bobcat T-190 daily with my F-250 diesel, and one of my workers pulls a 36 cu. yd. tandem 10k dually gooseneck dump trailer with our Dodge 2500 diesel. I'll prob never go back to gas..

bhforty3
01-21-2008, 03:10 PM
Dodge cummins diesel is the only way to go!! Thanks for asking.

TheHammer
01-21-2008, 08:50 PM
I will go with diesel becuse of longity and gas mileag.Over time you could get one diesel truck for two gas trucks.

BentleyOutdoors
01-31-2008, 11:11 PM
Ridiculous to buy a more expensive diesel truck to tow a light trailer. Period.... Your just buying into the redneck, wanna be a truck driver, she thinks my tractors sexy, mind set of you feel you just have to have a diesel truck to tow around a small trailer with your lawnmowers on it.

The diesel trucks DO break down.... Fords especially. They are far more expensive to fix than a gasoline truck.

And the newest diesels don't get much better miles per gallon than a gasoline truck.

The fact that diesels last 300 thousand miles is great, but there are plenty of gasoline trucks with that many miles on them too.

I think that 15 years ago, the diesels offered made far less power, and were under far less stress than todays diesels. Todays diesels make more horsepower and torque than any of the gasoline engines. Horsepower costs you in increased fuel consumption and lowered engine lifespan.

And the fuel still costs more per gallon!


Now granted, if your towing a skid steer, or a bulldozer, or a 20+ foot long large enclosed trailer, or anything much heavier than 6000 pounds, ON a Daily basis.... well then you need a diesel. But if you normally just tow a 4000-6000 pound lawn trailer around 90 percent of the time, and only once or twice a year haul anything heavier, the gasoline truck is a better choice overall.

Were talking new trucks here too by the way. If you are going to buy a 10+ year old used truck to save some money, the Diesels may be better to look at then, as the diesels then were less complicated, got better MPG, and were more reliable, especially the Cummins engines.

Ron, I have to say that I have read alot of dumb@ss things on message boards but this is one of the dumbest thing I have ever read. :confused:This thread has really made you look stupid!!:hammerhead: Diesel trucks are far superior than gas in heavy duty trucks for multiple reason. I am not going into them because I will be kicking a dead horse. Just because you don't agree with someone about buying diesel, and calling them a "Redneck" is childish". This is America, we buy way too much and have the biggest toys in the word. Personally I would not have it any other way. If I or anyone else can buy it and make people like you mad, I have Lived my American Dream!!! :usflag::usflag: Joking but seriously get a grip with the whole redneck, tractor sexy B.S. Ford Trucks sucks.
P.S. The smell of Diesel makes me horny.....*newusflag*

Rons Rightway Lawncare
02-01-2008, 10:19 AM
Ron, I have to say that I have read alot of dumb@ss things on message boards but this is one of the dumbest thing I have ever read. :confused:This thread has really made you look stupid!!:hammerhead: Diesel trucks are far superior than gas in heavy duty trucks for multiple reason. I am not going into them because I will be kicking a dead horse. Just because you don't agree with someone about buying diesel, and calling them a "Redneck" is childish". This is America, we buy way too much and have the biggest toys in the word. Personally I would not have it any other way. If I or anyone else can buy it and make people like you mad, I have Lived my American Dream!!! :usflag::usflag: Joking but seriously get a grip with the whole redneck, tractor sexy B.S. Ford Trucks sucks.
P.S. The smell of Diesel makes me horny.....*newusflag*

Let's see, you offer no reasoning at all why a diesel would be better in the application I described....

You talk about how it is your goal and should be all americans goal to have something nicer and bigger and " too much " as far as trucks go.

And your obviously offended by my opinion.... that most of the people who are buying these huge F-350 sized trucks to pull undersized loads or no load at all.... Are just driving these trucks because it is trendy. It is trendy especially with the redneck crowd. Hey I am a redneck and I know it, and this is my opinion.

Look come back with some facts, and we will discuss them. You don't make me mad at all that you drive a Diesel.... more power to you dude! I've had two Diesels myself and I know what they are all about. And I still stand by my opinion that most people driving them don't need such a big truck, and that for those people there is no appreciable advantage to driving diesel, and it costs these people more money overall to drive a diesel, and the only logical explaination for them to drive a diesel in face of the facts is it is simply a trendy, fashionable thing to own and drive. Same as all the mommys out there driving huge SUVs when they could just drive a Camry and have room inside to spare. It is all about Image....

Rons Rightway Lawncare
02-01-2008, 10:27 AM
I just reread your thread and looked more carefully at your signature....

Yes your right. If you NEED.... I made that bold yall, NEED a heavy duty truck, Diesel is better, hands down.

Do you pull a 18-20 foot long enclosed trailer? You need a heavy duty truck

Do you pull a skid steer daily? You need a heavy duty truck

Do you have a 30 foot long fifth wheel camper to pull on the weekends? You need a heavy duty truck

Do you pull a larger tractor or backhoe or small bulldozer around? You need a heavy duty truck

You guys get the picture.

Do you need a heavy duty truck to tow a typical lawnservice trailer? ABSOUTELY NOT! It is almost silly to spend so much more to drive Diesel to pull around a small trailer.

BentleyOutdoors.... Your pulling around a 12 foot trailer, With a Diesel! Talk about overkill!!! I could pull a 12 foot trailer around with my wifes Camry.... A Ford F-150 with a small V-8, even a V-6 would be more than enough to properly pull around a 12 foot trailer.

Landrus2
02-01-2008, 10:27 AM
If you like torque you buy or self a diesel.:drinkup:

Birdjr
02-01-2008, 02:22 PM
diesel all the way more torgue and better fuel mileage, plus they sound better:laugh:

fredski119
02-01-2008, 02:30 PM
:usflag:Go VEGGIE POWER you cant lose Exon Mobile just posted record profits today!

BentleyOutdoors
02-01-2008, 04:20 PM
Ron I have a diesel not for my lawn business because a gas truck cannot and will not pull my other toys that I own. Boat, Rhinos and horses. I dont have that stuff listed because this is a lawn forum. If you want facts, here you go. I own a "FORD" 87 F-250 4x4 with a 7.3 and 528,682 HARD FARM Miles and the only thing that I have replaced is a starter, injector pump and tranny. I would like to see a gas engine with that record. Also everything on my farm runs off diesel except my hustler. My tractor John Deere, my DIESEL MQ power Generator, MY wife also drives a Diesel Jeep Liberty. So keeping diesel is a must for me. My personal truck is a 7.3 Ford with only 50k and no problems. I have owned a GAS 2000 Chevy 2500 HD and When pulling 8k pounds i had to replace 2 trannys, computer and couple valve springs. The only reason that purchased it was because of the price. Like you were saying that they are more money but well worth it. I learned my lesson. I will never and i repeat never buy a gas truck again. Lets see more reasons. Diesel engines are longer lasting, more reliable, better fuel mileage, better resale, faster, more power, also cant transport fuel (which I need on my farm) in the bed of my truck. To sum it all up I feel that you are a little old man that needs to go back to Al Gores house for some more "none Carbon foot print" tea!!! LONG LIVE OIL BURNERS!!!!!!:usflag:

Rons Rightway Lawncare
02-01-2008, 07:10 PM
Dude, it sounds like you probably brush your teeth with diesel fuel.... more power to ya!

Meanwhile in the real world, a guy just pulling around a typical lawn trailer is nuts to think that he should take on a 800-1000$ a month payment.... the higher property taxes.... the higher than premium cost of diesel fuel... the higher expense of replacement parts on the truck and engine.... the higher insurance rates..... and the more expensive maintance costs All because of the so called advantages of diesel.

In the real world, a F150 or Chevy 1500 with a small V-8 or V-6 can be bought for half the price of the diesel. It will get reasonably close to the same mpg, on cheaper fuel. It is less to own all the way around....

And since most people these days don't keep a truck long enough to pay it off, much less 20 years and hundreds of thousands of miles later, There is no advantage to a diesels longer expected lifespan.

Yes Diesels hold better resale value, but what you gain at time of resell is no better than what you spent extra to buy the truck in the first place, so it is a wash.

Yes, in my opinon, there is alot of people that have brainwashed themselves into thinking that Diesel trucks is like the ultimate upgrade truckwise. And alot of them are just throwing money away for no reason.

Go to any dealership and ask what kind of trucks they sell the most of. It is almost always a 1500 Regular cab work truck with a V-6 engine. This suits most people and would suit most lawn services. Around here a new Chevy work truck can be picked up for under 14 grand. A new Diesel is close to if not over 40 grand, even for a stripped down version. The advantages just don't add up.

So yes, like I said before, if you are hauling trailers that weight over 10,000 pounds a Diesel is the smart choice. If your towing in the 7000-10,000 pound range you are in the area where a diesel would be nice, but a gas 3/4 ton truck would probably end up being just as good. Towing less than 7000 pounds with a diesel, your throwing money away...

ProCut_48
02-13-2008, 12:23 AM
Go with the v10 ford it will beat anything out there and don't ever buy a dodge they suck a$$ ive had a few!

razor1
02-13-2008, 11:11 AM
Germans, Japanese automakers push diesel in the US
DETROIT, Michigan (AFP) - Two decades after Americans abandoned diesels as smelly, loud and unreliable, German and Japanese automakers are placing bets that they can entice a new generation of drivers with clean diesel technology.
"We're seeing enough items align in terms of fuel prices and really good versions of diesels that aren't loud and clackety and smelly and smoky that diesel's got a better chance now then it's ever had in the past."




http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20080116/sc_afp/usautoenvironmentdiesel_080116052551

GSPHUNTER
02-13-2008, 05:28 PM
Pretty funny to see guys bashing diesels so much, especially when looking at the poll results.:dizzy:

ffemt1271
02-27-2008, 07:08 PM
i am on my first diesel but i pull tractors and stuff. my thinking is that a gasser at 10-12 mpg $3.00 gas or a diesel w/3.50 diesel. even though diesel is more, thats like paying 1/2 price to go the same miles. i have 100,000 miles on mine NO repairs.
just routine maintenance. i usually got about 85000 miles out of a gasser. so by the time you figure the better mileage, no more truck note, and the finance charges i am saving by not having to get a new one, i am coming out way ahead, i'll buy a $700 starter or whatever if it needs it, beats a $500 note EVERY month.