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clallen03
12-27-2006, 08:27 PM
I have been a member of Lawn Site for about a year. I have been upset because lately I have not seen many posts that are going to make the Lawn Care Community any better. For that reason Iím going to post a problem that Iím having with a lawn, in hopes that some of you "Experts" can educate myself and some other Lawn Site members.:)

Let me give you a run down on this lawn. Hopefully I can answer all your question so you can give your most accurate hypostasis.

This portion of the lawn we are discussing is total 1800sqft (1100 front and 700 side). Itís located in the Atlanta Area and we are experiencing some unseasonably warm weather (67 Highs and 48 Lows). This fescue lawn was just seeded in October and was fertilized for the first time the second week in December. We had a light rain that lasted for about 10 hours yesterday, so it has been watered pretty well.

-The front lawn has a section from the small Dogwood tree to the far right of the lawn that is turning a different color green almost brown. If you look closely it can be seen on the pics. The problem is a pretty big area, about a 300 sqft rectangle of the 1100 sqft front lawn.

Iím puzzled about this. Can I get some opinions on what it could be and what I can do to treat it? Thanks in advance.

-The opposite side of the driveway is about 700sqft and it is infested with a weed. I have taken pics of this side and the weeds.
I know this weed is henbit and if you look closely you can see the PostM that I put on it this morning. Itís a part of the problem so I thought I might show it in post.

These are the kinds of post that can educate our community. Letís make this post as helpful as possible to everyone.

Thanks again
Corrie A.:)

clallen03
12-27-2006, 08:33 PM
Pics of the side and the weeds that are in it. This is about 700 sqft. Henbit is the weed and if you look closely to the second pic you can see the PostM I put on the weed earlier today.

Complete Lawn Care
12-27-2006, 08:42 PM
I am not familiar with cool season grasses, so I am not an expert. But looking at the pictures, my first guess would be a fertility/soil issue. Could the yellow area be a spot where topsoil was shaved off to make a nice smooth slope? Try getting a soil analysis of the good area vs. the bad area and see if that tells you anything.

The Rookie
12-27-2006, 09:05 PM
Corrie, I think your yard looks great for just being seeded in October. Complete Lawn Care reply is a good idea. Is it possible that the yellowing is due to winter? I know even though the fall and early winter temps have been above average, but there have still been a few days that got into the teens in Western Kentucky. I don't know what happened in Atlanta though. Hopefully someone else will chime in with some advice because my fescue yard looks very similar to yours, henbit, yellowing, and it was also started in October. I am trying to get better at posting pictures but by the time I size them to post you see about 2 mower swaths wide.

Tn Lawn Man
12-27-2006, 09:11 PM
Here are Fescue basics for the south.

Although you live in Atlanta it does not mean that in December your grass is going to look like it does in March.

The browning that you are experiencing is probably just "winter" time characteristics. Don't be alarmed yet.

Likewise the weeds may be a product of the grass still being new and weak in comparison with mature springtime fescue.

Here is how fescue should be treated.

Seed in the Fall (which you did). If you seeded properly all that should be needed is a fair amount of water.

Next, mow fescue HIGH. I never cut fescue lower that 3.5 inches. It does well when it is long. And, due to its longer length (longer than weeds) it will have a natural tendency to choke out weeds.

Do NOT use any weed control agent until late this winter (like Feb '07) or very early spring. This new grass needs to grow and get stronger before it can handle alot of chemicals.

Treat it with a good pre-M with a fertilizer in late Feb early Mar. and then go through a full fert. program in '07. By May you will have a great yard.

The big killer for fescue in the South is the summer months. Water Water Water.

I hope this helps.

lawnpro724
12-27-2006, 09:21 PM
How much fertilizer did you put on? You should never fertilize a lawn this late in the season.

robertsturf
12-27-2006, 09:40 PM
Is it possible that the lawn was not fertilized evenly? It looks like the spreader was clogged??

Gatewayuser
12-27-2006, 09:49 PM
Have you taken a soil sample? Whats the pH level? What NPK have you been using this year?

clallen03
12-27-2006, 10:22 PM
Just a normal fert application, 1lb of N per 1K sqft. I was told by my Lesco rep to fertilize the lawn around that time thats why I did that. I was always under the impression that you should fertilize when the lawn is actively growing. I have been doing this for about a year so please school me.

The spreader worked pretty well and Im sure I got a even application, but I'll take that into consideration. Thanks for opinion.

I'm going to take some samples of the soil tommorrow and I'll probably get the results back in a couple of weeks.

I'm loving the replys, keep them coming.

Gatewayuser
12-27-2006, 10:28 PM
Just a normal fert application, 1lb of N per 1K sqft. I was told by my Lesco rep to fertilize the lawn around that time thats why I did that. I was always under the impression that you should fertilize when the lawn is actively growing. I have been doing this for about a year so please school me.

The spreader worked pretty well and Im sure I got a even application, but I'll take that into consideration. Thanks for opinion.

I'm going to take some samples of the soil tommorrow and I'll probably get the results back in a couple of weeks.

I'm loving the replys, keep them coming.


Remember that since fertilizer is still in the ground the test may be off some. I find the best time to be in the early spring that way the fert is used up.

Envy Lawn Service
12-27-2006, 10:55 PM
You have done just fine... and I see nothing to be real alarmed about.

It's probably nothing more than an inconsistancy in the soil or the fert application. It could also be that the spot there gets almost no sun this time of year and therefore has a lower soil temperature.

Take a soil sample from that area and the greenest area.
Test both and compare.

You might also want to pay attention to how the soil looks, what it's makeup is, and how hard it is compared to the other area. While you are at it, it never hurts to probe deeper to see if there is something beneath the surface there, such as gravel or something else...

oldturf
12-27-2006, 11:45 PM
Did you use a slow release N fertilizer or urea. If you used urea or some other fast agent it may be a slight burn in that area since you were putting on one pound per K. That is a max amount to apply and I know that all the books and salesmen say to use that amount but I have found it safer at this time of year to apply a half pound per K with some extra potassium to help with the root system. Then in early spring you can apply the other half and reseed and touch up any spots that need it. These are just the methods that I have been taught and have worked well for me. When I seed in
sept. I use a good starter fertilizer then do a late fert about the first of dec. and another in the early spring, but not to heavy at any time. And a good soil sample always helps. Good luck.

JJLandscapes
12-27-2006, 11:55 PM
nice camera

robbo521
12-28-2006, 12:30 AM
man i wish i could get mine to look like that.

Jay's Lawncare
12-28-2006, 06:47 AM
nice camera

I was thinking the very same thing

prostriper
12-28-2006, 08:10 AM
I see a couple of issues that could be effecting your questioned area. The tree at the top of the hill appears to be a birch from what I can tell in the picture. Birch trees utilize a flat root system and at the point of the problem area the roots would be near the surface taking nutrients from the area. This may also be combating the root growth of the grass. If this is the case the area will be slow coming in establishment until the grass is able to get a good solid root system. And I see two trees that would have the possibility of casting a shadow for a great part of the day ( not positive on that as I don't know where south is ). The shade problem could be helped by doing some light cleaning of the tree canopy. If you are not licensed, insured, equipped or experienced in this sub it out if this is desired. But the shade shouldn't be a big problem as fescue is usually somewhat shade tolerant.

The other possibility I see is over compaction and or improper tillage of amendments. This could be helped by spot treating with proper liquid fertilizer after a soil test. Do a soil analysis and see what the results bring. If the soil test isn't very far off aeration and an overseeding should get it right.

As far as your grass selection I would have went with Zoysia or Bahiagrass as Fescue does not like consistent temperatures above 70-75 degrees. But you will have the greenest lawn in the winter months.

clallen03
12-28-2006, 11:36 AM
Thanks for your replies everyone.

The camera is a Nikon D50, I really love it.

I know you say you wish you can get your lawn to look like that, but about a month ago it was all the same color green and very beautiful. I just want to stay on top of it because it looks like it taking a turn for the worst. I normally deal with warm season grasses so this fescue is new to me. Thanks for the compliment though.

As for the trees....you have a very valid point about the tree roots. I’m not sure what type of tree it is but some of the roots close to the tree are on the surface. Now for the grass type....Zoysia may have been a good but we are little to far north for Bahia. We are in transition Zone 7.

Great post lets keep it going.

Gatewayuser
12-28-2006, 12:04 PM
Thanks for your replies everyone.

The camera is a Nikon D50, I really love it.

I know you say you wish you can get your lawn to look like that, but about a month ago it was all the same color green and very beautiful. I just want to stay on top of it because it looks like it taking a turn for the worst. I normally deal with warm season grasses so this fescue is new to me. Thanks for the compliment though.

As for the trees....you have a very valid point about the tree roots. Iím not sure what type of tree it is but some of the roots close to the tree are on the surface. Now for the grass type....Zoysia may have been a good but we are little to far north for Bahia. We are in transition Zone 7.

Great post lets keep it going.



If it is a maple they will put a toxin into the ground which kills grass that way it doesn't have to compete for nutrients.

clallen03
12-28-2006, 12:20 PM
I think it is a maple. What can be done about this?

topsites
12-28-2006, 12:27 PM
And how exactly is this going to make the Lawn Care Community any better?

I don't particularly care for it when a customer comes up to me and starts off with an approach that puts me on a high pedestal, by using fancy words such as hypostasis, and calling me an expert, or better yet, a doctor... Then, suddenly the conversation turns from 'my lawn' into 'our lawn' or some such bs, suddenly their problem becomes ours, as if I had already agreed to become involved.

When a customer starts off like that, it's a red flag to me that someone just wants a whole LOT of expert help for free, and they really don't think much of us, but they do realize that when it comes to lawns, we might know a thing or two, and thus decide it might be best to butter it up real good.

Sorry, it's just what I got to feeling when I read the starting post, and I don't like that.
With a customer, nothing ever comes of it, that much I've learned.
But here, this should not be necessary because I've seldom seen lawnsite members NOT being very forthcoming, other than perhaps the usual exceptions.

clallen03
12-28-2006, 12:39 PM
It educates members on the problems that they my face during the course of a season. Someone my have the same problem on an account right now and is unable to post pics for any reason. This post gives a visual and experts can give their professional opinion on how to solve the given problem.

Do you no agree?

CurbAppeal33
12-28-2006, 12:40 PM
TN Lawn Man -- are you ready for 24 in a couple of weeks. I heard Bauer's dad and brother are going to introduced this season. Should be good.

The Rookie
12-28-2006, 06:39 PM
I wish more members would post their problems like Corrie did. With pictures and explanations. A picture is worth a thousand words.

Gatewayuser
12-28-2006, 07:44 PM
I think it is a maple. What can be done about this?

You could raise the soil level but that can be harmful to the tree. Try a hardier type of grass seed I don't know what kind would be best where you are.

Envy Lawn Service
12-28-2006, 08:26 PM
Well, they don't call it Hotlanta down there for nothing.

What puzzles me the most is that I spent a bit of time down there prospecting for possible areas I might be interested in relocating to. I think during the entire time I saw like one patch of fescue total. So I am naturally confused as to why fescue was planted to begin with.

Believe me, I am not really a fan of warm season turfs myself. I'm just curious is all. Just wondering why it was even chosen for your area instead of zoysia, bermuda or centipede?

clallen03
12-28-2006, 08:52 PM
You must not have been looking too hard, because fescue is all they plant along the highways. Now 95% of the newly constructed homes are bermuda sod and thats because its the cheapest way for the builders.

Fescue can grow well in this area if maintained properly. So it wasn't the best choice but I wouldn't consider it a bad choice either.

Thanks for you comment:)

The Rookie
12-28-2006, 09:08 PM
I hate how bermuda and zoysia turn brown in the winter. Along with that the soil becomes muddy and you cannot enjoy your yard in winter without looking at the ugly dormant warm season grass and tracking mud into house vehicles excettera. I have been trying to eradicate all the bermuda in my yard now for 5 years and still have not won the battle. I like warm season grass to play golf on, but not to have in my yard. From now on until I die, I will never own a yard or property that has warm season grass. I am a die hard, Bluegrass, Turf type fescue fan. Hell, I even like rye grass better than bermuda or zoysia. Maybe if I move to florida or somewhere that the warm season grasses do not go dormant in the winter, I will never even consider them to be of any value to me. Furthermore, I urge people that are starting new yards to be that of a coolseason turf type for the same reasons mentioned above.

clallen03
12-28-2006, 09:25 PM
Soil test was turned in today. UGA will be emailing me the results in about a week. I'll keep you'll posted.

Keep the comments coming.
Thanks

The Rookie
12-29-2006, 11:15 PM
Hey thought I would share with you what I purchased tonight. 2 bottles of WeedBGon Max concentrate by ortho. I am going to use it in my yard on the henbit, dandelions ect as they appear. I will probably mix mine a little hot 4 oz per gallon and spray it only on the weeds as a spot treatment. If they are slow to die, I might even mix it hotter. I figure I can get some practice for when I become licensed.

brucec32
12-30-2006, 02:16 AM
Looks pretty good to me. My fescue lawn ( sodded but overseeded annually) has a mottled color this time of year. I just assume it's normal.

Funny nobody mentioned your biggest future problem. That Bermuda or Zoysia next door creeping into the Fescue lawn and taking it over. Much easier to get the Fescue out of Bermuda than vice versa, of course. And I'd wonder about the longevity of those tiny trees w/o a mulch ring around them. And the bare areas uphill look like they could use some mulch too. Spend the time/money/effort where it's needed first instead of going for perfection on the grass part, I'd suggest.

Going with Fescue or Bermuda is a tradeoff situation. Both have their benefits. I actually have come to prefer Bermuda since the summer has wreaked havoc on every Fescue lawn I've owned, and most of the ones I maintain. Even brown 6 months a year, at least it's a nice thick carpet of grass (stems) with no bare spots. Bermuda is tougher to mow well per sq foot, of course. You get about 8-9 decent months out of a Tall Fescue lawn vs maybe 5-6 for Bermuda. Most can't afford to irrigate Tall Fescue to a decent standard in July-Sept, and it takes a month or so to recover even after cool temps arrive again.

carcrz
12-30-2006, 08:45 AM
If I am looking at the pictures correctly (pic 5 being the brown lawn in the back), I think it is a combination of things. It looks like their is a lack of sunlight, water because of slope, and competition for water from the trees at the top of the hill. I would like to see the soil results too.

Envy Lawn Service
12-30-2006, 11:06 PM
If I am looking at the pictures correctly (pic 5 being the brown lawn in the back), I think it is a combination of things. It looks like their is a lack of sunlight, water because of slope, and competition for water from the trees at the top of the hill. I would like to see the soil results too.

Yeah, but if he didn't send in TWO SAMPLES the results will be somewhat pointless.

Whenever a 'trouble spot' is encountered in a lawn it is important to take a sample made up of several cores from 'within' that zone.... and then a separate second sample from a good section as a presumed 'known-good' sample to compare results to.

Gatewayuser
12-30-2006, 11:11 PM
Yeah, but if he didn't send in TWO SAMPLES the results will be somewhat pointless.

Whenever a 'trouble spot' is encountered in a lawn it is important to take a sample made up of several cores from 'within' that zone.... and then a separate second sample from a good section as a presumed 'known-good' sample to compare results to.


Correct because you will just get an average if you don't.

Envy Lawn Service
12-30-2006, 11:21 PM
Correct because you will just get an average if you don't.

Yep... or if you just take cores from 'within' the troubled zone, you might get results that are low in some area.... but are they low compared to the good areas of the lawn?....

That's what you have to know as much as anything to cut to the chase in troubleshooting and eliminate a lot of futile attempts of trial and error.

Gatewayuser
12-30-2006, 11:28 PM
I still bet it is either low pH or the maple tree putting out toxins.

Stillwater
01-07-2007, 07:27 AM
that looks like black medic, the yellowing happed to me as well i corrected it with another light fert app

Envy Lawn Service
01-07-2007, 04:21 PM
Still waiting on samples I see....

This is why I do my own simple soil testing in-house.

clallen03
02-17-2007, 10:36 PM
Im sorry it took so long to reply, I almost forgot about this post.

Anyways, the ph was very high, 7.2 on this lawn. I figuring that its higher in that yellowing area.

What do you'll recommend I use to bring the ph level between 5.5 and 6.0?

Envy Lawn Service
02-17-2007, 11:36 PM
But we in the southeast never have high pH????

Yeah right huh!

Unfortunately high pH can be harder to correct than low pH.
Your area my be like mine... no elemental sulphur to be found locally?

Ammonium Sulphate 21-0-0 24% sulphur is what I use for nitrogen apps.
This puts some acid in the soil with the app and will lower pH.

How well the soil pH adjusts and how long the adjustment lasts depends on the soil it seems.

Gatewayuser
02-18-2007, 12:49 AM
You don't want it at 5.5 then you will be back to the same problem, you want it between 6-7pH for turf.

lawnbutch
02-18-2007, 02:02 AM
How about doing a core aeration!!

mow2nd
02-18-2007, 08:02 AM
How much fertilizer did you put on? You should never fertilize a lawn this late in the season.



What are you talking about???

mow2nd
02-18-2007, 08:03 AM
How about doing a core aeration!!



Pay attention, he already did it in the fall. And fall is the best time for Fescue

clallen03
02-18-2007, 09:36 AM
According to the the recommendations of UGA Cooperative Extension Office, 5.5 to 6.0 is the ideal ph level for this type of turf.

Gatewayuser
02-18-2007, 09:38 AM
According to the the recommendations of UGA Cooperative Extension Office, 5.5 to 6.0 is the ideal ph level for this type of turf.

Alright but I thought you said fescue? Here in OH it's 6-7pH

lawnbutch
02-18-2007, 10:24 AM
I have been a member of Lawn Site for about a year. I have been upset because lately I have not seen many posts that are going to make the Lawn Care Community any better. For that reason Iím going to post a problem that Iím having with a lawn, in hopes that some of you "Experts" can educate myself and some other Lawn Site members.:)

Let me give you a run down on this lawn. Hopefully I can answer all your question so you can give your most accurate hypostasis.

This portion of the lawn we are discussing is total 1800sqft (1100 front and 700 side). Itís located in the Atlanta Area and we are experiencing some unseasonably warm weather (67 Highs and 48 Lows). This fescue lawn was just seeded in October and was fertilized for the first time the second week in December. We had a light rain that lasted for about 10 hours yesterday, so it has been watered pretty well.

-The front lawn has a section from the small Dogwood tree to the far right of the lawn that is turning a different color green almost brown. If you look closely it can be seen on the pics. The problem is a pretty big area, about a 300 sqft rectangle of the 1100 sqft front lawn.

Iím puzzled about this. Can I get some opinions on what it could be and what I can do to treat it? Thanks in advance.

-The opposite side of the driveway is about 700sqft and it is infested with a weed. I have taken pics of this side and the weeds.
I know this weed is henbit and if you look closely you can see the PostM that I put on it this morning. Itís a part of the problem so I thought I might show it in post.

These are the kinds of post that can educate our community. Letís make this post as helpful as possible to everyone.

Thanks again
Corrie A.:)
O.K. Mow2nd where does it say he aerated??? Lets don't start throwing mud now!!I made that post after I read the first page and didn't notice their were more pages until after I submited the reply. O.K. Thank you!!

mow2nd
02-18-2007, 11:12 AM
O.K. Mow2nd where does it say he aerated??? Lets don't start throwing mud now!!I made that post after I read the first page and didn't notice their were more pages until after I submited the reply. O.K. Thank you!!



why would he aerate in Mid February anyway.............Aerating is done in the fall for Fescue. That would be the months from Sept-Nov. You shouldnt make suggestions when u dont know what ur talking about.

Gatewayuser
02-18-2007, 11:42 AM
why would he aerate in Mid February anyway.............Aerating is done in the fall for Fescue. That would be the months from Sept-Nov. You shouldnt make suggestions when u dont know what ur talking about.

Oh my this is why people are moving to other sites because of stupid arguments. Aeration can be done in the spring if really needed but fall is the best. Did he say to aerate now, no he said maybe thats what it needs.
:rolleyes:

lawnbutch
02-18-2007, 11:55 AM
:walking: Where does it say that you can ONLY aerate Fescue in the Fall?? If the area in question has a compaction problem don't you think you should do something about it?? If that's the problem, if not then wait until FALL and aerate then. Besides, here in Colorado we aerate (2) times each season and I have never read anywhere that you can ONLY aerate FESCUE in the fall. If you have some documentation to support what you said then post it so we all can get educated as to when we can aerate Fescue.

Gatewayuser
02-18-2007, 12:18 PM
:walking: Where does it say that you can ONLY aerate Fescue in the Fall?? If the area in question has a compaction problem don't you think you should do something about it?? If that's the problem, if not then wait until FALL and aerate then. Besides, here in Colorado we aerate (2) times each season and I have never read anywhere that you can ONLY aerate FESCUE in the fall. If you have some documentation to support what you said then post it so we all can get educated as to when we can aerate Fescue.

Correct you are.

wnccutter
02-18-2007, 12:18 PM
:walking: Where does it say that you can ONLY aerate Fescue in the Fall?? If the area in question has a compaction problem don't you think you should do something about it?? If that's the problem, if not then wait until FALL and aerate then. Besides, here in Colorado we aerate (2) times each season and I have never read anywhere that you can ONLY aerate FESCUE in the fall. If you have some documentation to support what you said then post it so we all can get educated as to when we can aerate Fescue....you beat me too it lawnbutch...core aeration can be done anytime of the year in the case of compacted soil...however the best time to core is when the grass is actively growing...here in NC the AG dept recommends coring be done in the Fall for Fescue to put emphasis on this...Grass only knows temperature and Lawn Rated Fescue grows best when the topsoil temp are in the 60 to 75 degrees range down to the 2inch level...

mow2nd
02-18-2007, 12:18 PM
u people are just stupid, i come here for just to get a kick out of ur dumb a** comments. Why would u aerate in the spring? Fall is the time for aerating and re-seeding (Fescue) spring is the time for pre-emergents and post-emgerents. Seeding in the spring is pointless, however u can do whatever u want, and most idiots on here do. What I'm saying is that the proper time to seed is in the fall, so that in the spring you can prevent weeds and kill weeds. Seed planted in the spring has a less chance of survival due the heat in the summer unless ur customer has irrigation.

mow2nd
02-18-2007, 12:27 PM
...the best time to core is when the grass is actively growing...here in NC the AG dept recommends coring be done in the Fall for Fescue to put emphasis on this...Grass only knows temperature and Lawn Rated Fescue grows best when the topsoil temp are in the 60 to 75 degrees range down to the 2inch level...



You seem to know what ur talking about.............Thank you, hope u have a great season.

wnccutter
02-18-2007, 12:28 PM
u people are just stupid, i come here for just to get a kick out of ur dumb a** comments. Why would u aerate in the spring? Fall is the time for aerating and re-seeding (Fescue) spring is the time for pre-emergents and post-emgerents. Seeding in the spring is pointless, however u can do whatever u want, and most idiots on here do. What I'm saying is that the proper time to seed is in the fall, so that in the spring you can prevent weeds and kill weeds. Seed planted in the spring has a less chance of survival due the heat in the summer unless ur customer has irrigation....aeration is necessary anytime if the soil is compacted and preventing the grass roots from accessing nutrients, water and air...aeration is also necessary anytime a lawn has depleted top soil and you are in the process of incrementaly trying to raise the top soil depth...grass roots cannot absorb nutrients directly and need topsoil bacteria to facilitate the process...there are very substantial and necessary reasons to core aerate during the year besides the fall...

wnccutter
02-18-2007, 12:30 PM
You seem to know what ur talking about.............Thank you, hope u have a great season....same to you my friend...I'm starting to get a little stir crazy waiting for the season to get going...

Gatewayuser
02-18-2007, 12:39 PM
u people are just stupid, i come here for just to get a kick out of ur dumb a** comments. Why would u aerate in the spring? Fall is the time for aerating and re-seeding (Fescue) spring is the time for pre-emergents and post-emgerents. Seeding in the spring is pointless, however u can do whatever u want, and most idiots on here do. What I'm saying is that the proper time to seed is in the fall, so that in the spring you can prevent weeds and kill weeds. Seed planted in the spring has a less chance of survival due the heat in the summer unless ur customer has irrigation.

You obviously have no knowledge of turf, pre-e should be done in the spring AND fall due to winter annuals. Yes seeding should be done in the fall.

greengrower
02-18-2007, 01:14 PM
I grew Fescue in south georgia for the Atlanta market for 20 years.First of all,we have to net the fescue so it will hold together.Usually in sept1 I sow around 600 pounds per acre with brillian seeder and the land was already ready with established ph and npk.It was never a problem to grow.The main worry was having it thick enough the rest was simple.Looking at the photos I noticed the spring annuals coming in (henbit I think)that"s only natural.We used a agri product called trimac a herbicide with i think 24d and some msma in it and some other herbicide as well forgot the mixture. but just go to a seed store they will help you.Also i noticed the yellow streaks.unnatural and I would guess fertilizer damage ot herbicide damage.Over all its a new stand will be fine.Remember fescue loves 2and 1/2 to 3 inch height and always use very freshly sharpened blades.do not use to much nitrogen and if you do you will have to use plenty of lime usually a ton per acre have to break it down. Also it takes around 4 months for the lime to raise the ph of the soil.This time of the year fescue looks pale and weak,When the soil temp rises the grass will gradually look better and better until the hot season in mid july then it will go in a semi dormant range but march till say july it will look great in atlanta.When the hot season finally gets here try some anti mold product. cl base such as clorox or clorine base small amouts it will kill the mold.that is the keys to the hot season fescue loves alot of water too. remember atlanta is really to far south for fescue but we still grow it.I hope I have helped some.Sorry for all the mispelled words .Good luck

Envy Lawn Service
02-18-2007, 03:20 PM
And what the HELL does AERATION have to do with the price of tea in China?

What is aeration going to do for high soil pH?

Envy Lawn Service
02-18-2007, 03:32 PM
According to the the recommendations of UGA Cooperative Extension Office, 5.5 to 6.0 is the ideal ph level for this type of turf.

In any event, the direction you need to go is down... more acidic... lower pH.

With that said, I'm going to continue to assume that elemental sulphur is not readily available to you... and you will likely need to turn to Ammonium Sulphate fertilizer 21-0-0 (24% sulphur).

When I encounter your soil pH levels, typically the Nitrogen levels are also depleted. So you can apply anywhere from 5-10 lbs of fert per thousand provided the weather is suitable (not hot/dry).

I would suggest an app of 5 lbs per K... wait... re-test soil pH YOURSELF.
If need be... then apply 1-5 lbs per K more.... using your judgement.

It's hard to tell what the reaction will be and how long the adjustment will last.

I'm guessing that now you can see the importance of having your own soil test setup if you really want to get into turf care/health.

mow2nd
02-18-2007, 06:03 PM
And what the HELL does AERATION have to do with the price of tea in China?

What is aeration going to do for high soil pH?

EXACTLY, THESE PEOPLE ARE STUPID. AERATION DOESNT SOLVE THE PROBLEM. (THIS PARTICULAR PROBLEM) LETS GET BACK TO THE MANS. U ALSO SEEM TO KNOW WHAT UR TALKING ABOUT, I HOPE U HAVE A GREAT SEASON AS WELL.

Gatewayuser
02-18-2007, 06:25 PM
EXACTLY, THESE PEOPLE ARE STUPID. AERATION DOESNT SOLVE THE PROBLEM. (THIS PARTICULAR PROBLEM) LETS GET BACK TO THE MANS. U ALSO SEEM TO KNOW WHAT UR TALKING ABOUT, I HOPE U HAVE A GREAT SEASON AS WELL.

I also agree that it may be a pH problem which I posted in December of last year.

grassmannj
02-18-2007, 07:39 PM
So what your saying is if your customer has irregation you can seed when?

Gatewayuser
02-18-2007, 07:46 PM
So what your saying is if your customer has irregation you can seed when?

Still in the fall is best because of humidity levels and competition of weeds.

ronniez71
02-19-2007, 12:56 AM
Hey Corrie has that yard had a GOOD AERATION lately? I see alot of thin spots? Every spring and fall aerate PLUGR 800 then seed over and fertalize 4-5 weeks later! Works like a charm!!!

ronniez71
02-19-2007, 01:14 AM
Hey Mow 2nd got any teeth left in your mouth??

Richard Martin
02-19-2007, 05:01 AM
You obviously have no knowledge of turf, pre-e should be done in the spring AND fall due to winter annuals. Yes seeding should be done in the fall.

You need to be careful when using Pre-em. It is true that Pre-em can be used in the fall but don't seed at the same time. The Pre-em has the same effect on new grass sprouts as it does on weeds. It ******s and prevents their growth.

Richard Martin
02-19-2007, 05:05 AM
Now for the grass type....Zoysia may have been a good but we are little to far north for Bahia. We are in transition Zone 7.

Not any more. The Plant Hardiness maps have been updated and you are now in a solid Zone 8. I made a post about the change to the map back in December. Were you not paying attention?

http://www.arborday.org/media/zones.cfm

mow2nd
02-19-2007, 06:58 AM
Hey Corrie has that yard had a GOOD AERATION lately? I see alot of thin spots? Every spring and fall aerate PLUGR 800 then seed over and fertalize 4-5 weeks later! Works like a charm!!!

SO WHAT YOUR SAYING IS YOU DONT HAVE TO USE A PRE-EMERGENT, POST-EMERGENT, OR LIME. YOU JUST AREATE AND SEED TWICE A YEAR AND FERTILIZE.......................YOU SOUND LIKE SOME OF MY CUSTOMERS. THE ONES THAT WONDER WHY THEIR YARD LOOKS LIKE CRAP.

naughty62
02-19-2007, 08:17 AM
The biggest problem we have with fescue on a slope is the clumpy texture of yard . the customers hate a mower ride that will jar your spine loose.So up yonder we just take care of basic I.PM.first .As time goes on and the customer wants to address the thin spot and the jarring mower ride , will topdress with three point rake . A little hand raking ,we then remove the drive chain from drill seeder , roll yard a couple times , then overseeder with drill seeder and or walk behind overseeders .Yard looks petty good for a young fescue lawn on a sloping yard.

Gatewayuser
02-19-2007, 09:36 AM
You need to be careful when using Pre-em. It is true that Pre-em can be used in the fall but don't seed at the same time. The Pre-em has the same effect on new grass sprouts as it does on weeds. It ******s and prevents their growth.

I know, you need to wait at least 6 weeks to seed.

Gatewayuser
02-19-2007, 09:39 AM
Hey Corrie has that yard had a GOOD AERATION lately? I see alot of thin spots? Every spring and fall aerate PLUGR 800 then seed over and fertalize 4-5 weeks later! Works like a charm!!!

The Sulfur will also help fill in thins spots once the pH is normal.

wnccutter
02-19-2007, 10:08 AM
And what the HELL does AERATION have to do with the price of tea in China?

What is aeration going to do for high soil pH?...the ph level in a lawn is the result of three main conditions in the lawn...1) soil composition, ranging from clay to sandy soils and 2) vegetative cover 3) and precipitation...

The balance of those three things gives you the natural developement and level of ph in the topsoil...aeration introduces air into the topsoil and effects the chemical process from decaying plant material...and the ability of the top soil to hold moisture

Aeration is vital to the health of a lawn along with fertilization, weed-control, top dressing, annual seeding, liming applications, and proper mowing techniques for the type of grass cultivated...

More to the point...low/high ph or acidic/basic levels are not the direct cause of stress to the lawn...what the ph level indicates is the ability of the soil to hold nutrients for the grass roots to absorb...if the soil is acidic for example, applying lime on compacted or depleted top soil is only a short term solution and does nothing to correct the initial imbalances mentioned above...and in many cases the lime will be drained off or grouped in pockets and not spread evenly throughout the lawn...

Aeration is vital to the health of a lawn and it is a vital procedure to bring the lawn into balance nutritionaly...which means aeration is vital to managing ph level (acidic or basic) in the lawn...

Envy Lawn Service
02-19-2007, 10:23 AM
...the ph level in a lawn is the result of three main conditions in the lawn...1) soil composition, ranging from clay to sandy soils and 2) vegetative cover 3) and precipitation...

The balance of those three things gives you the natural developement and level of ph in the topsoil...aeration introduces air into the topsoil and effects the chemical process from decaying plant material...and the ability of the top soil to hold moisture

Aeration is vital to the health of a lawn along with fertilization, weed-control, top dressing, annual seeding, liming applications, and proper mowing techniques for the type of grass cultivated...

More to the point...low/high ph or acidic/basic levels are not the direct cause of stress to the lawn...what the ph level indicates is the ability of the soil to hold nutrients for the grass roots to absorb...if the soil is acidic for example, applying lime on compacted or depleted top soil is only a short term solution and does nothing to correct the initial imbalances mentioned above...and in many cases the lime will be drained off or grouped in pockets and not spread evenly throughout the lawn...

Aeration is vital to the health of a lawn and it is a vital procedure to bring the lawn into balance nutritionaly...which means aeration is vital to managing ph level (acidic or basic) in the lawn...

We are talking high pH here chief... not low.

The lawn is not even 6 months old... I doubt it needs aeration yet.

Gatewayuser
02-19-2007, 10:26 AM
...the ph level in a lawn is the result of three main conditions in the lawn...1) soil composition, ranging from clay to sandy soils and 2) vegetative cover 3) and precipitation...

The balance of those three things gives you the natural developement and level of ph in the topsoil...aeration introduces air into the topsoil and effects the chemical process from decaying plant material...and the ability of the top soil to hold moisture

Aeration is vital to the health of a lawn along with fertilization, weed-control, top dressing, annual seeding, liming applications, and proper mowing techniques for the type of grass cultivated...

More to the point...low/high ph or acidic/basic levels are not the direct cause of stress to the lawn...what the ph level indicates is the ability of the soil to hold nutrients for the grass roots to absorb...if the soil is acidic for example, applying lime on compacted or depleted top soil is only a short term solution and does nothing to correct the initial imbalances mentioned above...and in many cases the lime will be drained off or grouped in pockets and not spread evenly throughout the lawn...

Aeration is vital to the health of a lawn and it is a vital procedure to bring the lawn into balance nutritionaly...which means aeration is vital to managing ph level (acidic or basic) in the lawn...



Good Post! Also before you ever start a new lawn always take a soil sample. It is a lot easier to change the pH and potash levels when its just soil that way you can work the material in to get faster and healthier results. Lime and Sulfur increase cell division by making a better pH level and when the pH level is right then cell division occurs which cause bare spots to fill in.(Fescue does not divide well though this is more with Rye, etc) Oh and IPM is key think before you spray it may be cultural habits.

Gatewayuser
02-19-2007, 10:29 AM
We are talking high pH here chief... not low.

The lawn is not even 6 months old... I doubt it needs aeration yet.

Not always was the lawn sown on a compacted surface (new construction), I didn't read back so I don't know.

dhardin53
02-19-2007, 10:40 AM
We call that weed in illinois "creaping charlie" 24D is the only thing that will stop it. It will chok out grass thats not harty. The grass will eventually die out if it let go.

wnccutter
02-19-2007, 10:52 AM
We are talking high pH here chief... not low.

The lawn is not even 6 months old... I doubt it needs aeration yet.

...right, I address both...low = acidic, high = basic...

...aeration is critical to both...ph level, whether it is acidic or basic is simply an indicator of the soil characteristics and ability to provide nutrients to the grass roots...applying elemental sulfer to bring ph down or lime to raise ph does nothing to change the top soil characteristics long term...aeration along with the other items I mentioned in my post will...

clallen03
02-19-2007, 09:05 PM
I aerated this lawn before I seeded it guys. I feel the problem is the ph. 7.2 is pretty high.

So what I gathered was that I need to use sulfur to get this problem under control. Is this right? I dont know what to take in because this thread has got so far away from the question.

Thanks everyone for you input.

Corrie A.:)

Richard Martin
02-20-2007, 04:49 AM
I aerated this lawn before I seeded it guys. I feel the problem is the ph. 7.2 is pretty high.

That ultimately depends on what will actually grow in your climate. With the warming trends most attempts at fescues and ryes may fail. Warm season grasses like Zoysia and Burmuda will thrive at those pH levels. Centipede is the exception when it comes to warm season grasses. It needs an even lower pH then cool season grasses. Around 4.5 to 5.5.

Envy Lawn Service
02-20-2007, 08:42 PM
I aerated this lawn before I seeded it guys. I feel the problem is the ph. 7.2 is pretty high.

So what I gathered was that I need to use sulfur to get this problem under control. Is this right? I dont know what to take in because this thread has got so far away from the question.

Thanks everyone for you input.

Corrie A.:)

Yeah... don't get lost in all of this.

What it needs is Sulphur.... and how were the Nitrogen levels?

You can get Sulphur by elemental sulphur or by 21-0-0 Ammonium Sulphate fertilizer. The latter is 24% sulphur by volume.

************************************

You need to get your own soil testing items so you can do further testing yourself.
Apply... wait... retest... apply more if needed... wait... retest...

*************************************

You also need to get more deeply involved in your turf program if you are going to do this kind of thing much at all. Meaning your own testing... careful studies of the turf types, and varieties.

Meaning you should study your seed selections right down to the wire and know everything about them... and how that relates to your area.

The NTEP is a good place to start. Like for instance, you should know exactly what seed you used on that lawn... and if it's a blend... exactly what varieties it contains...

So therefore you could go to the NTEP site...
Look up your nearest test site...
Find your seed selections...
Study all data...

And couple that with data from the actual seed producers site.

You should never have to rely on blanket statements from your extension agent when it comes to the needs of your specific turf selections.

There are MANY different varieties of turf type tall fescue...
And those varieties have many different qualities...
Different likes, dislikes, maintenance requirements, etc...

You should know the pH range, fertilizer requirements, shade/sun tolerance, drought tolerance, disease tolerance, and cutting height range for peak performance.

********************************************

Not being mean spirited above...
Just offering some honest advice that can make all the difference in your turf program.

Groomer
02-20-2007, 09:21 PM
try to top dress it with some chicken **** after you aerate and overseed.

Mow2nd-2
02-23-2007, 04:15 PM
why do most people on here make lawn service so hard? its not rocket science. MOW IS RIGHT THE REST OF YOU ARE WRONG!!!

The Rookie
02-23-2007, 10:50 PM
Hey CLAllen. I hope you get your ph within range and your fescue looking good for spring. I am thinking about going organic in my yard from now on. I will mow 4 inches high and give it water during drought periods. If nature will not take care of itself after that I will give up on growing grass and start replacing grass areas with landscaping, walks, ect.