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View Full Version : Rainbird Select Contractor Trip in January.


JimLewis
12-29-2006, 07:46 PM
Is nobody from Lawnsite joining me in Puerto Vallarta???

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http://www.cybcon.com/~jimlewis/PuertoV.jpg

Dirty Water
12-29-2006, 09:08 PM
Since we order everything through HD Fowler, and the we only use 3 rainbird products for our residential work (The 1800 series, DVF-100's, and the ESP timers), we don't get cool offers like this.

Would be nice :)

That said, is it possible to be a Rainbird Select contractor without ordering directly from RB and being able to use other brands?

JimLewis
12-29-2006, 09:36 PM
It doesn't matter who you order from. All suppliers will track and report your Rainbird sales to Rainbird Rewards once you've signed up for that program. I don't think anyone orders directly from Rainbird. As much as I wish I could, I don't think that's really possible. They only sell through distributors / suppliers like HD Fowler, et al.

There are 3 levels to the Rainbird Rewards program. The first level is easy. Anyone qualifies for it. It just involves signing up. If you're already purchasing RB products, then you definitely are missing out if you're not signed up for their Rewards Program. You get points for buying what you're already buying. The points add up. And if you want to redeem them for smaller stuff like hats and jackets then you can do that fairly quickly. But it's better to save the points until you have enough to qualify for their trips. They have a Rainbird Rewards Trip every year or two. Usually in Las Vegas. It's a short trip. But it's a lot of fun to go to and you get to meet and trade knowledge with a lot of other irrigators from around the U.S.

So just at this first level, you can enjoy some of the benefits of the points program and some of the trips they offer, yes. And also at this level, you can still use as much or as little RB products as you want. No requirements at this level - just rewards.

Find out more here;
http://www.rainbird.com/rewards/index-contractor.htm

After that, there are two higher levels of Rewards member. The first is the Select Contractor and the highest level is the 100% Select Contractor. Both of those programs have requirements that you have to meet in order to be involved. But even those requirements are a little negotiable. If you find you would qualify for most of the requirements listed but are deficient in one of them, then you just meet with your local RB rep and figure out a way to work that out. I can tell you that once they know you're interested, they will do quite a bit to help you out.

As a select contractor, one of the requirements is that you use at least 80% RB components on systems you install. So I don't know if your systems qualify for that or not.

Of course, at these higher levels, you get more points, per dollar spent. So you earn points quicker at these higher levels than you do at the basic Rewards level. And of course that comes with some commitment on your end in return. But then you also qualify for much better trips.

The rewards trips are fun. But the Contractor Fly-Ins and the Select Contractor conferences, etc. are even more fun. They are longer, and you rep. just wines and dines you the entire time. It's great. My last trip I didn't have to bring out my wallet for the entire trip. They took care of my EVERYTHING!

If you don't have enough points saved up to qualify for a trip, you always have the option to pay for the trip partially with points and partially with credit card. I have been fortunate enough that we always had enough points to pay for the trips they've taken me on. But for those who don't do quite as much volume, you can still attend these trips. You'd just end up paying for part of the trip yourself.

Find out more about these two higher levels here;
http://www.rainbird.com/rewards/selectcontractor.htm

JimLewis
12-29-2006, 09:49 PM
Below are a few pics from my last trip with them in October. The two guys in Yellow shirts are the RB reps for Oregon and Washington. And the rest of the people in the pics are just us contractors from the NW. That day, the larger group of about 60 contractors from around the U.S. broke up into smaller regional groups and went to different outings organized by their reps. We went to a desert museum and a nice steak house in that limo. It was great because you get to know your rep. better and you get to hang out and relax with other guys from your region.



...

Az Gardener
12-30-2006, 12:21 AM
That picture in front of the limo looks a lot like AZ. Well not a lot, exactly like AZ.

JimLewis
12-30-2006, 12:51 AM
Yah, that was the Contractor Fly-In trip they took me on in Tucson, AZ - Rainbird Headquarters.

koster_irrigation
12-30-2006, 08:49 AM
I went to the contractor fly in last nov. of 2005 to Tucson. Had a great time!

Bigred350
12-31-2006, 09:43 AM
I hate to burst your bubble but a bunch of guys in a limo cant be to much fun.


Right now i am saving my points fot the 52" flat screen tv.

JimLewis
12-31-2006, 07:53 PM
Well, it was 8 guys and 1 lady (on guy had his wife along). But we were all having a great time, I guarantee you that.

I guess there could be more fun to be had in a limo, but that wouldn't be appropriate for a business conference.

Still, the jeep 4x4 dessert tour, flight museum tour, steakhouse dinners, and staying up late drinkin' with other contractors from around the U.S. was about as much fun as I could expect to have at a business conference. Besides, 2 days of that trip was on a Thurs. and Friday. I would have normally just been working. And being in a limo, hanging out in the sun, was certainly a lot more fun than being back in rainy Oregon raking leaves.

The Puerto Vallarta trip has even more fun stuff planned - all on them.

I already have a 52" DLP. Travel and good times is a lot more fun to me.

Bigred350
12-31-2006, 08:50 PM
I was just giving you a hard time man. I would love to do that one day.

ericlemson
01-09-2007, 04:54 PM
That sounds a lot of fun. How many millions of rewards point do you need to get that trip paid for?

JimLewis
01-16-2007, 04:18 AM
The amount of points vary depending on length of stay, whether you take the IA Certification workshop, which Optional Activities you chose, whether you have a guest or not, etc. For my wife and I, we used about 64,000 points to go on this trip.

JimLewis
01-16-2007, 04:21 AM
Here are some photos from the trip......


.

JimLewis
01-16-2007, 04:23 AM
Here are a few more photos....


.

JimLewis
01-16-2007, 04:25 AM
And yet a few more.....


.

JimLewis
01-16-2007, 04:26 AM
And here are the last set of pics I am going to show you all......


.

JimLewis
01-16-2007, 04:41 AM
Just a quick review;

The trip was just amazing, as I am sure you can see from the photos. There were about 400 Select Contractors there from across the nation. Well, I should say 400 people attended the conference. Many were wives. And a few were kids. So of that 400, probably only 150-200 were contractors.

They took absolute great care of us from the moment we arrived at the airport. They had guys with signs waiting for us to take our bags and direct us to our shuttle. Then when we arrived they had everything already arranged. They even took care to tip everyone in advance for us. So we never had to tip the bellmen, maids, concierge, etc. The first night they had a great welcome party for us with a good buffet and an open bar. That night everyone let loose. Some of us a little too much. ;) We had short conferences each day for the next two days. They were only about 4 hours each day and they were actually very informative. I came away with some really great ideas. And of course, they took care of every meal.

On the 3rd night, they took half of us to a gorgeous restaurant way up in the hills. We had a great time up on a deck / veranda overlooking part of the bay. There was an open bar. And then we ate a steak and seafood dinner.

The 4th day was all recreation. Some people went on Canopy Tours (buzzing from one tree to another on a cable line in the jungle), others went whale watching, deep sea fishing, diving, or on a ATV tour through the jungle and villages nearby. My wife and I chose the ATV tour, which was a blast.

Usually around 9:00 or 10:00 each night you had the option of just going back to your room or hanging out with your local Rep. and some others at the local watering hole there in the hotel. And of course, they always paid for it all.

Then that night, they had a beach party / dinner for us again. Live entertainment, open bar, all that.

Throughout the trip, there was lots of free time to go hang out by the pool, go shopping, play on the beach, whatever. So that was cool too. We got more free time than I imagined we would.

Rainbird really went out of their way for us. I tell ya, going to Puerto Vallarta is awesome any time. But when someone else is paying for it all - it's even better. They really put on a class act trip. Everyone had a blast and we all can't wait until next year. Hopefully some of you all will join us next year.

Flow Control
01-16-2007, 07:16 AM
Jimlewis,

How much did you purchase this year then 100K+ in components?

PurpHaze
01-16-2007, 08:28 AM
Great pics Jim. Why no bikini pictures??? :laugh:

Does Rain Bird only schedule these at resorts that are 100% their product installed? :)

Flow Control
01-16-2007, 11:22 AM
I usually just cash my points in maybe next year I will weigh all of the options. Looks like it was a great time.

JimLewis
01-16-2007, 05:20 PM
Jimlewis,

How much did you purchase this year then 100K+ in components?

No. Not nearly that much. We had a lot of growth points. And we also get the maximum amount of points because we are a 100% Select Contractor. So at the 100% Select level, you get a LOT more points (per dollar spent) than you do if you are at one of the other two lower levels. And then with growth points, they take whatever you bought in the previous year and that becomes your "base" for the current year. And so whatever you purchase in the current year ABOVE your base, you get like triple points for. (Rainbird is looking for companies who are growing rapidly and rewarding these companies more). Then on top of all this we sold probably 50% more irrigation installs than any previous year. So it's all that combined that let us have the points to go.

JimLewis
01-16-2007, 05:25 PM
Great pics Jim. Why no bikini pictures??? :laugh:

Does Rain Bird only schedule these at resorts that are 100% their product installed? :)

Um. Well, even when I was taking the random pool pictures I noticed the ladies in bikinis were already starting to get nervous about a guy with a camera. If I had pointed at them, I think I would have been in trouble - not only with them but with my wife as well.

Rainbird heads only? I don't think so. I think the main concern is the quality of the establishment, rather than which sprinkler heads they use. I don't think Rainbird intends to punish hotels and resorts for decisions their building contractors made 10 or 15 years ago. At this resort, I never could find a sprinkler head.

DanaMac
01-16-2007, 05:48 PM
Good for you, looks like you had a lot of fun.

Problem for a company like mine is that we are repair only so we don't buy mass quantities of supplies. But I would really like to go on one of these someday.

PurpHaze
01-16-2007, 09:32 PM
With your luck Dana they'd probably schedule you for one... say... late April. :laugh:

PurpHaze
01-16-2007, 09:33 PM
Um. Well, even when I was taking the random pool pictures I noticed the ladies in bikinis were already starting to get nervous about a guy with a camera. If I had pointed at them, I think I would have been in trouble - not only with them but with my wife as well.

Heck... MY wife points them out to me. Guess she figures it helps getting me "stirred" up. :laugh:

hoskm01
01-30-2009, 02:08 AM
Just a quick review;

The trip was just amazing, as I am sure you can see from the photos. There were about 400 Select Contractors there from across the nation. Well, I should say 400 people attended the conference. Many were wives. And a few were kids. So of that 400, probably only 150-200 were contractors.

They took absolute great care of us from the moment we arrived at the airport. They had guys with signs waiting for us to take our bags and direct us to our shuttle. Then when we arrived they had everything already arranged. They even took care to tip everyone in advance for us. So we never had to tip the bellmen, maids, concierge, etc. The first night they had a great welcome party for us with a good buffet and an open bar. That night everyone let loose. Some of us a little too much. ;) We had short conferences each day for the next two days. They were only about 4 hours each day and they were actually very informative. I came away with some really great ideas. And of course, they took care of every meal.

On the 3rd night, they took half of us to a gorgeous restaurant way up in the hills. We had a great time up on a deck / veranda overlooking part of the bay. There was an open bar. And then we ate a steak and seafood dinner.

The 4th day was all recreation. Some people went on Canopy Tours (buzzing from one tree to another on a cable line in the jungle), others went whale watching, deep sea fishing, diving, or on a ATV tour through the jungle and villages nearby. My wife and I chose the ATV tour, which was a blast.

Usually around 9:00 or 10:00 each night you had the option of just going back to your room or hanging out with your local Rep. and some others at the local watering hole there in the hotel. And of course, they always paid for it all.

Then that night, they had a beach party / dinner for us again. Live entertainment, open bar, all that.

Throughout the trip, there was lots of free time to go hang out by the pool, go shopping, play on the beach, whatever. So that was cool too. We got more free time than I imagined we would.

Rainbird really went out of their way for us. I tell ya, going to Puerto Vallarta is awesome any time. But when someone else is paying for it all - it's even better. They really put on a class act trip. Everyone had a blast and we all can't wait until next year. Hopefully some of you all will join us next year.
So, Jim,,,,



We've been invited to the Fly-in this spring and are totally stoked. We are on our way in March, and love RB, and plan to learn all we can and sell all we can in the future. I am in in for Maxicom classes in March, as well. What do you have to say?

JimLewis
01-30-2009, 03:06 AM
Well, first, congrats for dredging up a very old threat! LOL.

That's great. You know I am a die-hard RB guy. I love the product and I love the way they treat their contractors like Gold. I can't tell you how much RB helps me each year.

That's great you're going to the fly-in this spring! You're gonna have a blast. When they took me on my first fly-in I didn't have to pull out my wallet for anything the entire time. It was first class all the way. Every time I even thought about anything, they were already getting it for me. I am not used to being treated so well. So it was a really nice change of pace.

Next was the Select Contractor trip, as I talked about in this old thread. That was amazing too! They didn't quite pay for everything on the S.C. trip. But pretty close. They paid for 90% of the stuff I did on that trip. Still treated us like first class the whole time.

Since then, I've been on another 2 trips on RB's dime. Good stuff.

What do I have to say? Well, first of all, half the guys here on lawnsite are gonna call you a sell-out. So get ready for that. :laugh:

But no, really.... If you're going to get serious with RB, it pays to be loyal. I know guys locally who are "kinda" with their rewards program. Or "kinda" on the Select Contractor program. But they never really commit and never really make an effort to get to know their RB rep. and never really take advantage of all the things that the rep. would do for them, if they were really serious. So they never get to experience all the great rewards.

If you guys are going to be on the RB Rewards program, or even better - on the Select Contractor program, there are some more things I would advise you about in private. That would have to be done in PM. But it's all good. I love my RB rep's. They are awesome. I can't tell you how much they've helped me over the years.

That's great though. You're going to have a blast.

Hopefully your boss is one who likes to "share the rewards" with his employees. When I go on the Select Contractor or other trips, a lot of times I am hanging out with the foreman of a company, not necessarily the owner. So helping the owner be successful and getting him lots of RB points can help you too. I know a lot of companies around here who send their top guys on trips when they can't make it.

Besides the big trips, though, there are a LOT of ways RB will help you with other parts of your business from providing presentation materials to training to on-site help to other stuff. But one thing they don't like is free-loaders. They don't like the contractors who show up at all their promo functions but then never buy any of the show specials. Or contractors who go to the fun local "casino night" on RB's dime just to get the free drinks and food and prizes but then never even bother to try out their products. Those guys don't get the good stuff later. RB is more than gracious with contractors who are loyal and willing to give their products an honest shot. But they are weary of free-loaders. So keep all that in mind. The rest of the really good stuff I can tell you in email or PM.

Have a blast!!! That's awesome.

Green Sweep
01-30-2009, 06:39 AM
Well, first, congrats for dredging up a very old threat! LOL.

That's great. You know I am a die-hard RB guy. I love the product and I love the way they treat their contractors like Gold. I can't tell you how much RB helps me each year.

That's great you're going to the fly-in this spring! You're gonna have a blast. When they took me on my first fly-in I didn't have to pull out my wallet for anything the entire time. It was first class all the way. Every time I even thought about anything, they were already getting it for me. I am not used to being treated so well. So it was a really nice change of pace.

Next was the Select Contractor trip, as I talked about in this old thread. That was amazing too! They didn't quite pay for everything on the S.C. trip. But pretty close. They paid for 90% of the stuff I did on that trip. Still treated us like first class the whole time.

Since then, I've been on another 2 trips on RB's dime. Good stuff.

What do I have to say? Well, first of all, half the guys here on lawnsite are gonna call you a sell-out. So get ready for that. :laugh:

But no, really.... If you're going to get serious with RB, it pays to be loyal. I know guys locally who are "kinda" with their rewards program. Or "kinda" on the Select Contractor program. But they never really commit and never really make an effort to get to know their RB rep. and never really take advantage of all the things that the rep. would do for them, if they were really serious. So they never get to experience all the great rewards.

If you guys are going to be on the RB Rewards program, or even better - on the Select Contractor program, there are some more things I would advise you about in private. That would have to be done in PM. But it's all good. I love my RB rep's. They are awesome. I can't tell you how much they've helped me over the years.

That's great though. You're going to have a blast.

Hopefully your boss is one who likes to "share the rewards" with his employees. When I go on the Select Contractor or other trips, a lot of times I am hanging out with the foreman of a company, not necessarily the owner. So helping the owner be successful and getting him lots of RB points can help you too. I know a lot of companies around here who send their top guys on trips when they can't make it.

Besides the big trips, though, there are a LOT of ways RB will help you with other parts of your business from providing presentation materials to training to on-site help to other stuff. But one thing they don't like is free-loaders. They don't like the contractors who show up at all their promo functions but then never buy any of the show specials. Or contractors who go to the fun local "casino night" on RB's dime just to get the free drinks and food and prizes but then never even bother to try out their products. Those guys don't get the good stuff later. RB is more than gracious with contractors who are loyal and willing to give their products an honest shot. But they are weary of free-loaders. So keep all that in mind. The rest of the really good stuff I can tell you in email or PM.

Have a blast!!! That's awesome.

I'll second all of that. I went on a contractor fly in to LA years ago & went to the Bahamas 2 weeks ago for the Select Contractor trip. I took my 3 young kids & they even did everything to make it enjoyable for them. Rain Bird is a true class act. I'd love to go on another fly in to Arizona!!

rlpsystems
01-30-2009, 08:56 AM
Man, you all are going all over the place with those points. Me, I cashed em in for this sweet pullover!!!

Green Sweep
01-30-2009, 09:55 AM
Man, you all are going all over the place with those points. Me, I cashed em in for this sweet pullover!!!

I spent $100,000 with Rain Bird and all I got was this lousy shirt....

I got a similar pullover (that was too small) on my fly in. MY wife makes fun of me because I am always wearing Rain Bird gear. I have sooo many shirts, hats, and sweatshirts. I am a walking billboard. Never did get a nice polo golf shirt though...... And, they raffled off 3 Rain Bird/Nike golf bags at Atlantis that I DID NOT win.

hoskm01
01-30-2009, 10:59 AM
I spent $100,000 with Rain Bird and all I got was this lousy shirt....


Youve got to have some points sittin around if you spent 100 G's.


Thanks for the info, Jim.

I am pretty loyal to RB and will continue to be. Only thing they need pretty bad is a large rotary nozzle with adjustable arc. Gotta keep up with the MPRtater.

Very excited, will take pics.

Green Sweep
01-30-2009, 11:09 AM
Only thing they need pretty bad is a large rotary nozzle with adjustable arc. Gotta keep up with the MPRtater.

They are working on it. I too am an MP user but caught a glimpse of whats to come from Rain Bird. Do not know when it will come out but I think that it will finally challenge the MP.

JimLewis
01-30-2009, 02:56 PM
Yah, they are working on the variable arc thing. They'll get it out soon. They've actually been working on that for years.

But the current RB Rotary Nozzles are every bit as reliable and work great, in comparison to the MPs. They just aren't adjustable, so you have to stock more of them. I know, it's PITA. I got a whole toolbox with little sections for each size.

But it's the same way with the U-Series nozzles. I could install VANs and reduce my stock of nozzles down by 2/3. But U-Series nozzles save 30% because they are so much more efficient. So I still use them because it's smart and saves my customers a lot of money. And that's a huge selling point.

Anyway, they are working on that. But I hear you. I prefer the MPs to the rotary, just because of the adj. arc. But I use the RB Rotaries because they still work great and RB hooks me up!!! My sense of loyalty is very strong.

JimLewis
01-30-2009, 02:58 PM
By the way, they've also got some other really kick-a$$ stuff that they are going to debut this year, in terms of controllers. I have already installed 4 of them as beta tests. Friggin' AWESOME! And that's about all I can say about that.

Wet_Boots
01-30-2009, 03:03 PM
Is Rainbird coming out with a rotor as reliable as the R-50 was?

Green Sweep
01-30-2009, 03:07 PM
But the current RB Rotary Nozzles are every bit as reliable and work great, in comparison to the MPs.


I agree. I actually think that the Rain Birds have a better spray pattern. My sticking point has been the arc adjustment. They had samples of the "new" nozzles at a round table discussion. I had to sign a "non-disclosure" so that also is about all I can say about that!

hoskm01
01-30-2009, 03:15 PM
I do like the Rotary nozzle, as long as I can fit one to the plan. I like 30 feet too, RB only goes 24.

JimLewis
01-30-2009, 06:26 PM
Well, if you are going 30 ft., it's about time to switch to real rotors. The 5000 PRS is a very water-efficient head that will go down to 30'. And if you combine a 5000 PRS with a MPR Nozzle, you're REALLY starting to get very efficient. So the Rotary isn't really necessary at that range. I guess, unless you just have a low pressure situation or are trying to stretch out your zones.

hoskm01
01-30-2009, 06:33 PM
Well, if you are going 30 ft., it's about time to switch to real rotors. The 5000 PRS is a very water-efficient head that will go down to 30'. And if you combine a 5000 PRS with a MPR Nozzle, you're REALLY starting to get very efficient. So the Rotary isn't really necessary at that range. I guess, unless you just have a low pressure situation or are trying to stretch out your zones.
For older system renovations, thats where I like the big dogs.

We took out 550 rotors last year and replaced wth 6" MPRtaters. Needed about 10 4000's, not out yet. Customer saved 8k in water bills last 3 months of the season.

Im a big fan of the 5000, especially with the PRS. Prob my favorite head.

Tom Tom
01-31-2009, 11:50 AM
By the way, they've also got some other really kick-a$$ stuff that they are going to debut this year, in terms of controllers. I have already installed 4 of them as beta tests. Friggin' AWESOME! And that's about all I can say about that.


..........esp-smx?

hoskm01
01-31-2009, 12:13 PM
..........esp-smx?
Thats what I was thinking. Maybe more?

Mike Leary
01-31-2009, 01:36 PM
Im a big fan of the 5000, especially with the PRS. Prob my favorite head.

The fact that it will retro into the "T-Bird" bodies is a plus.

hoskm01
01-31-2009, 01:42 PM
The fact that it will retro into the "T-Bird" bodies is a plus.
Yes. And the UPG to retro to PGP's is nice too.

Mike Leary
01-31-2009, 02:06 PM
Yes. And the UPG to retro to PGP's is nice too.

Only pikers use PGPs.

hoskm01
01-31-2009, 02:10 PM
Only pikers use PGPs.
Hence my retrofications with 5k's.

Mike Leary
01-31-2009, 02:13 PM
Hence my retrofications.

Nice sentence structure! :clapping:

hoskm01
01-31-2009, 02:23 PM
Nice sentence structure! :clapping:
My creative word juices were flowing.

allinearth
01-31-2009, 11:06 PM
I would love to use more rainbird for the fly ins, etc but I jst can't bring myself to do it. They were nice enough to send me to Tuscon a few years ago. The trip was as others described. Just don't think they have the best product most of the time. Plus home depot sells them.:rolleyes:

hoskm01
01-31-2009, 11:35 PM
I would love to use more rainbird for the fly ins, etc but I jst can't bring myself to do it. They were nice enough to send me to Tuscon a few years ago. The trip was as others described. Just don't think they have the best product most of the time. Plus home depot sells them.:rolleyes:
They sell a different line at HomeDepot. We dont buy at Homedepot, and RB wont recognize anyone for buying at HD.

At any rate, I like RB quite well. We will always have a split jury on RB vs. Hunter.

What is your "best product"?

JimLewis
02-01-2009, 01:40 AM
Well, we all just have to agree to disagree on the "best product" thing. I'm convinced RB has the best product in most areas and at least equal product in the rest. But that's subjective.

I agree with the home depot thing. That used to really bug me. But the thing is most of the stuff they are selling there is a sub-standard version of the good stuff we sell. And yah, it sucks to think that a client doesn't "need" us to get their heads. But you know what? There are always going to be do-it-yourselfers. There were before RB was avail. in HD and there will be in the future. And do-it-yourselfers are going to find a way to do it themself without hiring a contractor anyway. So if they have a system that has all hunter pro-sprays and they take one out to replace it and go to HD to find one, and one isn't there - it's not like they're going to just drive back home and wait until Monday to call an Irrigation Contractor to go get one for them. What they're going to do is ask for help and the guy there is just going to say, "You know what? Any old spray head will do. You don't HAVE to replace it with the same brand. Just use this RB or Toro spray head. You'll be fine."

And before RB was selling their stuff at HD, the same stuff was happening to them. People would go to HD to find a replacement head and the guy there would say, "Oh, you don't have to replace it with the same brand. All spray heads are the same. Just use this Toro or Weathermatic spray head."

The thing is - you gotta realize that there are two types of homeowners;

1) Those who will do it themselves and
2) Those who don't want to mess with it, and will hire a contractor.

The people in category 2 are the ones we're all working for. And their numbers didn't change when RB started selling heads at HD. The people in category 2 still don't wanna mess with it. Doesn't matter if they can buy it at HD or not.

Sometimes we imagine that it makes a big difference, when it really doesn't. It's not like all the people in category 2 were all of a sudden jumping up and down when they started selling RB at home depot, saying, "YES!!! They sell Rainbird now! I can quit calling that irrigation tech. I know and start doing all this myself!!!" That's not happening. At least not very much. So we all really have nothing to worry about.

And when you think about it, one of RB's best qualities is their name recognition. EVERYONE knows that name. So if you're selling RB products, it really lends you a lot of credibility to be selling a name everyone knows. And adding RB to the HD line just further reinforces the brand imaging that RB already had. So it's actually a good thing. The more people see the RB name everywhere, the more sought after they will become. And the more sought after RB stuff is, the easier it is to sell. So it actually helps us in that way.

My 2 cents.....just a different way to look at it.

allinearth
02-01-2009, 07:49 AM
So tell me the difference between contractor 1804 and HD 1804 besides the goofy sticker on the side and the 15' nozzle. How bout the dv100 valve? besides the gray plastic instead of black. Tell me why rainbird can't come up with a decent remote for their esp controllers. How about a wireless rainsensor? They copied Hunter on there rotor. Claim raincurtain technology but I have yet to see any precipitation curves on their 5000s and I have asked. Copied MP rotator (unsuccessfully IMO). What are they doing on the ET front? And wasn't Hunter the first to come out modular? Seems like rainbird is resting on their haunches and relying on their name instead of doing anything groundbreaking. Then when they do copy something it fails a few times. By the way, take a wild guess what my "best product" is. Give me a reason to go the other way.

hoskm01
02-01-2009, 10:52 AM
I think RB has superior products in many categories. More than half. They dont make the best or most productive lines of some products, rotary nozzle, as of yet. Just my thoughts...

ET wise, theyve had their ET manager add on for a couple years now. THeyve got the new ESP SMX, or whatever it is, coming out soonish, so weve been told here. Jim might confirm if thats what he had his hands on. You can add ET via IQ or Maxicom on many models. (my head is more in the comm line right now)

I believe it was determined earlier that the HD stuff did not have the same grade of plastic and or wiper seals on heads, or innards on rotors, making them crappy compared to the commercial line. (grey plastic instead of black on the DV's accentuates this). Ever looked at one of their rotors at HD? Not a 5k, not even close. Pre-nozzled. Good luck with a HO getting that right in the yard.

I think it is smart, business-wise, to sell a line of your product at Home Depot. Like Jim said, there will always be that group of people that will do it themselves. You might as well capture some of those sales, too.

Valve-wise, from small resi to large commercial, absolutely no substitute for RB valves. Hunter doesn't even come close as far as reliability and quality.


Did they copy the MP Rotator? Maybe, probably. Is it as good, yet? No. They are supposed to be working on that as well.

All of the Disney properties cant be wrong, running Maxicom for 20 something years now. And that has gotten better with Maxicom2. Maxicom is not for everyone, or every property, but fits the bill for extra-grande sites.

RB's ESP residential clocks are hand over fist better and easier to program and operate than a Hunter POS. Its not the name, I swear, but I cant stand Hunter clocks.

Precip figures:
http://www.rainbird.com/landscape/products/rotors/chart_5000_stand.htm

Is that not what youre looking for?

How about this for comparison to PGP (the original rotor).

:::just noticed they left off a "0" on their model number. Ran out of characters, hopefully.:::

This argument will go on forever, no doubt. Its mostly preference and loyalty and your own personal knowledge of your product.

JimLewis
02-01-2009, 07:07 PM
So tell me the difference between contractor 1804 and HD 1804 besides the goofy sticker on the side and the 15' nozzle. How bout the dv100 valve? besides the gray plastic instead of black. Tell me why rainbird can't come up with a decent remote for their esp controllers. How about a wireless rainsensor? They copied Hunter on there rotor. Claim raincurtain technology but I have yet to see any precipitation curves on their 5000s and I have asked. Copied MP rotator (unsuccessfully IMO). What are they doing on the ET front? And wasn't Hunter the first to come out modular? Seems like rainbird is resting on their haunches and relying on their name instead of doing anything groundbreaking. Then when they do copy something it fails a few times. By the way, take a wild guess what my "best product" is. Give me a reason to go the other way.

Well, you are asking a lot of questions here. And nobody except maybe a well informed RB rep. is going to be able to field all those questions with precise answers. But I'll answer what I know.

First of all, on the RB sprays and Valves avail. at HD, I've been told they were a cheaper form of the originals. So I don't know. Maybe the springs are less resilient, maybe the plastic doesn't last as long in the sun before breaking down, maybe there are ways to make products with a little cheaper plastic or parts and for the homeowner varieties, they are chosing to use those cheaper materials just to keep the price point low and offer something to the public.

On the other hand, maybe are the same models you and I use. Which, again, I really don't care too much about anymore. I used to be upset about that. But for the reasons I gave in my last post above, it really doesn't concern me much anymore. Do-it-yourselfers are always going to do it themselves. If they can't find a RB replacement, they'll just to use a Toro or whatever else HD sells.

And why is everyone so pissed at RB for selling their stuff at HD anyway? It's not like only contractors can buy Hunter stuff. You can get Hunter products on Amazon.com for cryin' out loud - along with 15 DOZEN other sites on the internet. It's not like Hunter is protecting us contractors and RB isn't. If do-it-yourselfers want Hunter products, there are all SORTS of places they can get their hands on them.

Why can't they come up with a decent remote for ESP? Because there isn't enough demand for it. Do you know that a few years back when they DID still have a remote for their controllers, I couldn't hardly sell a damn one of them? I tried to upsell it with every system we installed. It was like a $150.00 add-on. And out of the 40 or so systems we'd install each year, I'd usually get 0 or 1 taker each year. Homeowners didn't really care to have one. Most people laughed at me and would ask, "Why would I want a remote? If I want to change my times or turn it on, I'll just go to the garage." Yah, a remote is handy for contractors. But you don't make it rich selling to contractors. You're product has to be viable to homeowners or else it's not profitable. Now some companies may have decided to keep that product on, even though it's not profitable, just to please contractors, I don't know. But I do know RB had a remote and got rid of it because they were losing money on that product.

A wireless rain sensor? Well most wireless rain sensors have a problem. The battery inside the sensor runs out within a year or two.

And the Hunter wireless rain sensor isn't all that great anyway. I know FIMCO-MEISTER has said he doesn't like it at all. And look at some of the reviews the Hunter Rain-Clik gets online too;

http://www.amazon.com/Hunter-Wireless-Rain-Click-Sensor/forum/Fx1Z89MBL4C3UJT/Tx3RI98SXD0DJDR/1/ref=cm_cd_dp_tft_tp?_encoding=UTF8&asin=B000678M5M&store=hi

So noticing this was a problem and something customers were upset about, RainBird pulled their Wireless Rain Sensor 2 years ago and have been re-engineering it into one that will use the battery in a different way. Instead of sending a constant signal to the receiver, it will sent a quick pulse-signal once every 30 or 60 minutes. Thus, prolonging battery lifespan to WAY more than a few years. But product testing takes a while when you care about quality. So be patient. RB will have a superior wireless Rain sensor when it does finally come out (to be released in 2009 at this point).

They copied RB on their rotor? Ok. So that pisses you off? You guys sometimes get so worked up over semantics. I am not sure they copied Hunter's rotors but even if they did, is that a bad thing? Hunter became popular for only one reason - they had a far superior rotor. And now that RB has one that's just as good, the only bad thing you can say about it is they copied Hunter??? I guess I'd say the same thing about the Hunter Pro-Sprays. Tell me those aren't almost identical to the RB 1804! Come on, who cares who's copying who? Every industry has products that are similiar to their competitors. The point is, who has the product that is more reliable, more sought after, better customer service, better support, better diversity of products, etc.

Hunter first to come out with modular? I think you mean Toro, right? Toro had modules in their controllers a long time ago. So does that mean Toro is the best brand because they came out with a modular controller first? Come on, what sense does that make? There's nothing wrong with a company saying, "A controller wiith modules. Wow. You know what? That's a good idea!!! Hey, engineers! Why don't you see if we can come up with a modular controller that's even BETTER. How can we improve on that idea, guys? Get to work!"

I could bring up several products that RB came up with first, even without going back to the early 1900s when they came out with virtually everything first.

They came out with U-Series nozzles first, a PRS rotor, MPR Nozzles, Central Control, landscape drip-line, Booster pumps, swing pipe, spray heads, variable arc nozzles, spray heads, controllers, valves, valve boxes. They came out with ALL those things before Hunter did. Only thing Hunter came into the industry with new was a gear-driven rotor. RB has lead the way with all sorts of products.

Now they can't come up with every single innovation in the industry, any more than Sony can come up with every electronics innovation. But being the first to market on every single innovation is not what makes companies viable, is it?

I think RB had proven over the years their commitment to innovation, even though they occasionally get surprised by something before they think of it.

And I am not sure who you're currently using. I gotta assume Hunter. But I'll note that RB actually beat Hunter to market with a rotary nozzle too. RB had rotary nozzles way back in 2005. Hunter couldn't even invent their own. They had to BUY their rotary nozzle (from Walla Walla). So it's not like Hunter was the big innovator there. In fact, Hunter only showed interest in becoming a player in the rotary nozzle market only AFTER Walla Walla and Rain Bird had already proven it to be a viable product. Where was Hunter's big innovation there? Why couldn't Hunter invent their own?

So let's get off the whole "who's more innovative" thing. You're not going to win that fight. Hunter's copied PLENTY of ideas from RB over the years too, and you know it.

As for what RB is doing on the ET front, it's very good. I have "what they are doing on the ET front" at my house and several of my clients houses. But I can't disclose anything about that. I will say, you don't need a separate "module" on the wall. It's a REALLY simple retrofit for any existing ESP-M controller. Their method for measuring precipitation is much better than the rain gauge that Hunter ET System has, the rain gauge won't have to be "cleaned of dust and debris every 30 days" like the Hunter ET System's rain gauge does and RB's system includes more ET factors than the Hunter product does. And that's already probably more than I am allowed to say about that. So just wait and see.

Listen, I know a lot of guys are sold on Hunter or even other brands. That's cool. If you're happy, fine. I used Hunter exclusively for a few years and I wasn't happy with some of the products, the support, and they were doing NOTHING for me in terms of rewards except for some points for a few hats and shirts and stuff. But RB has treated us like gold since I first really got noticed by them. I've installed hundreds of their systems and rarely have a call-back issue related to their parts. I like their support and I find that it's very easy to convince my customers they are buying the best because they know the brand. But your mileage may vary. I'm not here to talk anyone out of Hunter or other brands. If you're happy there, fine. But if you're looking for reasons to switch or consider RB stuff, I think I've given you a few things to think about.

allinearth
02-01-2009, 09:56 PM
I think RB has superior products in many categories. More than half. They dont make the best or most productive lines of some products, rotary nozzle, as of yet. Just my thoughts...

ET wise, theyve had their ET manager add on for a couple years now. THeyve got the new ESP SMX, or whatever it is, coming out soonish, so weve been told here. Jim might confirm if thats what he had his hands on. You can add ET via IQ or Maxicom on many models. (my head is more in the comm line right now)

I believe it was determined earlier that the HD stuff did not have the same grade of plastic and or wiper seals on heads, or innards on rotors, making them crappy compared to the commercial line. (grey plastic instead of black on the DV's accentuates this). Ever looked at one of their rotors at HD? Not a 5k, not even close. Pre-nozzled. Good luck with a HO getting that right in the yard.

I think it is smart, business-wise, to sell a line of your product at Home Depot. Like Jim said, there will always be that group of people that will do it themselves. You might as well capture some of those sales, too.

Valve-wise, from small resi to large commercial, absolutely no substitute for RB valves. Hunter doesn't even come close as far as reliability and quality.


Did they copy the MP Rotator? Maybe, probably. Is it as good, yet? No. They are supposed to be working on that as well.

All of the Disney properties cant be wrong, running Maxicom for 20 something years now. And that has gotten better with Maxicom2. Maxicom is not for everyone, or every property, but fits the bill for extra-grande sites.

RB's ESP residential clocks are hand over fist better and easier to program and operate than a Hunter POS. Its not the name, I swear, but I cant stand Hunter clocks.

Precip figures:
http://www.rainbird.com/landscape/products/rotors/chart_5000_stand.htm

Is that not what youre looking for?

How about this for comparison to PGP (the original rotor).

:::just noticed they left off a "0" on their model number. Ran out of characters, hopefully.:::

This argument will go on forever, no doubt. Its mostly preference and loyalty and your own personal knowledge of your product.

I should have said distribution curve not precipitation. I don't want to start a big rant. I do use a few rainbird parts and no it doesn't piss me off that they copied the rotor. Just something I've noticed. As far as Maxicom I could care less because I don't do large commercial. I am not interested in selling remotes to customers. I used to sell the rainbird ones to make it easier for us to service their system. I have never used Toro and don't plan to so I wouldn't know about their modular. You guys have a few good points but not all. Guess Hunter just works out better for me right now.

allinearth
02-01-2009, 09:59 PM
By the way Jim, are you interviewing with rainbird soon?:laugh: That must have taken a while to type all that. Must type a lot quicker than me.

Waterit
02-01-2009, 11:37 PM
Steel cage match tripleheader:

On the undercard, we have Jim Lewis and Earthworker, followed by Trilawncare and Junior.

For our featured match, Kiril and Boots.

Alternates: Mike Leary and, um, anybody.

ARGOS
02-01-2009, 11:41 PM
Trilawn is a bully.

JimLewis
02-02-2009, 12:49 AM
By the way Jim, are you interviewing with rainbird soon?:laugh: That must have taken a while to type all that. Must type a lot quicker than me.

I love sales. I love recruiting. I love giving presentations. Ever since college that's been what I was best at. So it's something I've thought a lot about. But I don't think their reps make as much as I do. But still, it's something I'd be interested in, if for some reason my business ended up folding or something. If the contractors in your area are doing well, you get to go to a LOT of nice places and experience a lot of the good life. I could handle that. :cool2:

Yah, I type pretty fast these days. All those years on lawnsite, I guess.

hoskm01
02-02-2009, 02:00 AM
At any rate, RB works for me. I like 'em. Stick with Hunter, I need something to repair.

DanaMac
02-02-2009, 07:18 AM
I've always been a Rainbird guy, except for a few years after the T-Bird fiasco. ESPs, DV-100s, 1804s, RB regular and U-series nozzles. I still feel the PGP has a better reliability factor, but I like everything else about the 5000.

Jim - you mentioned RB started the undercut series nozzles. Is that correct? I'm pretty sure I've seen older brass nozzles with undercuts.

Mike Leary
02-02-2009, 08:54 AM
Jim - you mentioned RB started the undercut series nozzles. Is that correct? I'm pretty sure I've seen older brass nozzles with undercuts.

I think Jim is right; I used RB brass years ago that had the undercut.

DanaMac
02-02-2009, 08:57 AM
I think Jim is right; I used RB brass years ago that had the undercut.

OK - I wasn't sure of the older brand that I saw. Not much brass here except on old systems.

Wet_Boots
02-02-2009, 09:09 AM
Of course brass nozzles with undercuts predate all plastic spray nozzles. Boy, do I miss brass popups.

Anyone here ever see the Rainbird brass popup body with a stainless steel spindle?

Mike Leary
02-02-2009, 09:50 AM
Boy, do I miss brass popups.

Oh yes, 2" risers, no wiper seals, no low-drain check valves. :rolleyes:

Wet_Boots
02-02-2009, 10:12 AM
Oh yes, 2" risers, no wiper seals, no low-drain check valves. :rolleyes:I miss reel lawnmowers, too. Some of those brass nozzles had enough overspray that you could locate heads a foot or so away from a driveway or other boundaries.