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Ray Kane
12-30-2006, 06:40 PM
first post so bear with me. 1.5 hp sta-rite pump with 2" suction and 1.5" output. I have a 1.5" "T" at the output with a hose bib for priming and a 1.5" ball valve. I have not hooked up any of the irrigation as of yet. At the hose bib I screwed on a "Y" and attached a pressure guage to one side and a garden hose to the other.

My question is what type of PSI should I have if I were to shut off the 1.5" ball valve and runthe pump thru the garden hose?

laylow1994
12-30-2006, 06:44 PM
probably like 40-50 psi

Ray Kane
12-30-2006, 09:22 PM
probably like 40-50 psi

The needle is rapidly moving between 35-40 psi and can run a pretty steady stream thru a 50 ft garden hose.

bicmudpuppy
12-30-2006, 10:02 PM
Did you inherit the pump? or install it? What KIND of pump? Specs on the pump? 1.5hp doesn't tell me much. Is it a high volume? or high pressure pump? Close the valve going to the garden hose (what size hose? 3/8, 5/8, 3/4???) until the pressure gauge holds stead. Maybe 50psi.......then time the flow from the choked hose bib. I would prefer w/o the 50' of who knows what size hose, but either way, you will get some idea of what is going on this way. A 1.5" outlet w/ a 2" suction should be able to move 20-30 gpm and your not going to do that through a hose bib and garden hose. Some pumps designed for "lawn irrigation" won't create more than 60 psi and the specs will talk about an operating pressure of 40-45 psi, BUT you could be looking at 30gpm.

bicmudpuppy
12-30-2006, 10:19 PM
Ok, Sta-rite has a web site. IF it is a PD series pump, then your looking at 40psi max and between 10 and 20gpm dependng on amount of lift. The other "question" you didn't answer. How far below pump level is the water level? are we lifting 5 ft? or 20?

Ray Kane
12-31-2006, 08:53 AM
Sta Rite DS2HF-192PL - won at a charity auction
Garden hose is 3/4" and 44' long - I temporarily attached the hose to take the water AWAY from the foundation of my house.
Amount of lift is unkown - The 2" vertical pipe comes up to a foot underground and makes a 90* - travels 8' horizontally underground, makes another 90* then up 2' to the pump.

Guy across the street has the same pump and THINKS he is lifting 30'

bicmudpuppy
12-31-2006, 09:37 AM
Specs for your pump say 10gpm at 20' of lift w/ 40 psi. Pump specs don't suggest more lift that 20'. I hope your neighbor is incorrect about the 30' of lift. The MAXIMUM lift by suction using any device is just short of 34'. This is a sea level standard (Fla should be real close to that). Reduced atmospheric pressure (being above sea level) decreases this ever so slightly. ANY suction leak reduces pump performance. The more lift, the more important it becomes for your suction line to be "tight". I don't think this pump would lift 25'.

brookviewlawncare
12-31-2006, 12:04 PM
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Ray Kane
12-31-2006, 12:45 PM
Iis there a glossary where I can learn what these terms are - for instance "total head" and what they mean to me?

drmiller100
12-31-2006, 01:36 PM
the further you pump the water up hill, the more work your pump has to do, which means the less gallons per minute, OR the less pressure you will have.

head typically is measured from where the water starts uphill until it comes out, then add the pressure equivalent on top of that.

With 1.5 hrose and a garden hose, you are probably cavitating your pump.
As an example, take a hair dryer, turn it on, and plug the end. The dryer motor speeds UP becuase air isn't flowing.
Likewise your pump. a garden hose is like trying to pee through a syringe.

a horse and a half in good shape with no restrictions is a ton of water. I would GUESS 20 gpm.
I'm a chicken. I would make a bunch of runs to the main valve box, hook up the zones at 20 gpm, then run it. if you have less, redistribute your zones.
Don't mix spray heads with gear drives unless you are using MP rotors. Use a 50 micron filter. You can run up to 3 valves at one time off of a clock.

Wet_Boots
12-31-2006, 03:53 PM
No one is lifting water thirty feet, in any practical application of a standard centrifugal pump. Even twenty-five is a stretch. In order to evaluate both pump and well, you must remove any restrictions from the outlet of the pump, and install a nipple and a tee, with a pressure gauge, and a gate valve, and an elbow and some more pipe for a horizontal discharge. You also can use a vacuum gauge to view conditions on the suction side of the pump. Operating the pump with the discharge partially closed will give you varying outlet pressures, and you can measure the flow, usually by the bucket method. (I might use a 30 gallon trashcan on a pump this size)

You should always pump the well for at least an hour, with an eye on the gauges, to see how the water table is holding up.

drmiller100
12-31-2006, 04:02 PM
i've done sprinklers before where the "lawn" had 75 feet of vertical change. It was on a "hill."

I will totally agree that you can't suck more then 20 feet or so, but you CAN push it quite a bit, and it does subtract from either volume or pressure available to the sprinkler head.

Ray Kane
12-31-2006, 05:11 PM
Long post but please take it all in

Spoke with neighbor - he took a lead weight and string, lowered it down his pipe and heard a splash at 12 feet. Our houses are 300 feet from each other and at the same elevation. He then attached a 2" PVC 90* for a 10' horizontal run to the pump suction side.

On the output side a 1.5" run 14' long goes to a hydrotek 4-zone index with 1 inch outputs.

Now for the interesting part. A lizard met its demise in the hydrotek. We did an R&R on the hydrotek and left the index stuff out by mistake. When we turned on the pump it ran all four zones with no problem.

Both of our homes have approx 5000 sq ft of area to be watered.

Currently I have a similar setup except for the output side. I have a 1.5 inch "T" with a 3/4" hose bib on top and a 1.5" ball valve on the side.

Any suggestions before I continue?

Wet_Boots
12-31-2006, 08:21 PM
The curve that was posted shows an operating range as high as 60 gpm, so powering four zones with a lift of less than 15 feet is not unreasonable.

Ray Kane
12-31-2006, 11:43 PM
The curve that was posted shows an operating range as high as 60 gpm, so powering four zones with a lift of less than 15 feet is not unreasonable.

Is it possible to run it as one zone? The front and back yards are the only areas which need coverage. Both side yards have pavers and gravel. The pump is located in the direct center of the side yard so all I would have to do is "T" off the 1.5" output to the front and back.

katienpdx
01-01-2007, 12:45 AM
PUMP TERMINOLOGY

As with any field working with pumps requires an understanding of the terminology common to their applications.

Pump performance is measured in volume as gallons per minute (GPM) and in pressure as head. In general a trade off occurs between head and flow with an increase in head causing a decrease in flow and vice versa.

Head refers to gains or losses in pressure caused by gravity and friction as water moves through the system (see figure below). It can be measured in lbs/in2 (PSI) but is most commonly listed in feet of water.

Static Suction Lift - The vertical distance from the water line to the centerline of the impeller.

Static Discharge Head - The vertical distance fromthe discharge outlet to the point of discharge or liquid level when discharging into the bottom of a water tank.

Dynamic Suction Head - The Static Suction Lift plus the friction in the suction line. Also referred to as a Total Suction Head.

Dynamic Discharge Head - The Static Discharge Head plus the friction in the discharge line. Also referred to as Total Discharge Head.

Total Dynamic Head - The Dynamic Suction Head plus the Dynamic Discharge Head, also referred to as Total Head.

http://www.pumps-in-stock.com/pump_terminology.html

bicmudpuppy
01-01-2007, 12:52 AM
Is it possible to run it as one zone? The front and back yards are the only areas which need coverage. Both side yards have pavers and gravel. The pump is located in the direct center of the side yard so all I would have to do is "T" off the 1.5" output to the front and back.

How many heads are you planning? what nozzles? in other words, how many GPM? This pump has a listed max operating pressure of 40psi. even with minimum restrictions for backflow, lateral piping and zone valves if needed, your going to be down to 30psi at your heads. And, if your lifting aprox 15', your max discharge with a 40psi at the discharge point (before pressure losses in the plumbing) is 20gpm. The chart posted is from the pumps specs. right before that chart is the chart with the pumps discharge specs with relation to lift and desired pressure. With less than 5' of lift, yes this pump would push 60 plus gpm, but your only going to get 10 psi. The pump spec page is here

http://www.starite.com/specs/sys_pd_series_specs.pdf

Ray Kane
01-01-2007, 09:40 AM
Are the specs the same for my pump {DS2HF-192PL} and the PD series pump?

Front yard will be 6 full spray heads, 10 1/2 spray heads and 4 1/4 spray heads.

Back yard will be 6-8 rotors

How much do I lose due to the 2" check valve?

Anyone have advice regarding zone indexing and pump timer controls?

speedbump
01-01-2007, 11:32 AM
The guys are right about 25 feet being the maximum lift that pump can do. Your 1.5hp pump is way oversized for a 1" zone. You might want to run several at the same time depending on the ability of your well to produce water. If it were mine, I would be using a smaller pump. Why waste all that amperage when you can only use a maximum of 25 gpm without the friction loss going totally off the chart. At 35 psi with a 12 foot lift, that pump wants to be putting out 40 gpm. At 25 gpm the friction loss is already around 15 lbs. through a hundred feet of 1" pipe. The H in the model number means High Head, so this pump can make more pressure than a Medium Head pump. But it still can't overcome the friction loss.

Don't worry about losses through a check valve, you can't use all the water this pump is able to produce anyway. And I doubt your well can produce that much water anyway. You should cut the pipe leaving the pump and do the bucket test to see what the well is capable of, then go from there.

The only thing I can see beneficial about the garden hose is for priming the pump initially. Other than that, it's kind of useless for any sort of testing.

bob...

Ray Kane
01-01-2007, 11:41 AM
[QUOTE=speedbump;1659170]Your 1.5hp pump is way oversized for a 1" zone. You might want to run several at the same time depending on the ability of your well to produce water.QUOTE]

Pump has a 1.5" outlet. I was thinking of running 1.5" pipe to the front and back yards then branch out with 1"{?} to the different sprinkler heads. I would like to run it as a single zone system.

Wet_Boots
01-01-2007, 11:47 AM
Indexing valves are a (mostly) Florida niche, so there is not a lot of widespread knowledge about them. As for coverage from that pump, you get your most operating efficiency with sprays, and not rotors, since rotors need more pressure.

Pumps like these were often used in conjunction with brass sprayheads, or sprayheads with brass nozzles, since they could give a good spread of water with less than 20 psi. Most modern sprays are looking for 30 psi, and rotors want even more than that, as a rule.

A Rainbird Maxipaw impact rotor might well be able to work in conjunction with low-pressure sprays, but it's a head that most pros distance themselves from, and not one you want in extremely sandy soil, unless you are able to swap out their internals to give them a cleaning.

But, as has been mentioned, you don't know that you can get anywhere near 60 gpm from the well point. Until you remove the garden hose crap and run the thing flat out for at least an hour, you don't have any idea of what your true water supply is.

brookviewlawncare
01-01-2007, 04:46 PM
The pump curve that i posted is for the Ds2HF. FT of head is equal to .433 psi . You want to stay in the curve that says best efficiency size. from memory and with out know what the vacum on the well would be I think about 15-18 gpm on rotor zones and 18- 21 on spray zones. I have only installed one of those fancy hydrotek valves and was pretty impressed not common up here in michigan

drmiller100
01-02-2007, 02:05 AM
ummm, he has a 5000 square foot yard, a horse and a half, and 15 feet of head.

He can FLOOD IRRIGATE the dang yard in about 20 minutes.

So, to answer, YES, RUN IT ALL AS ONE ZONE, and a few of your neighbors as well. if you don' tflow enough water through a pump, it is actually hard on them, and uses more electricity then running it at a lower pressure.

speedbump
01-03-2007, 08:45 AM
[quote=speedbump;1659170]Your 1.5hp pump is way oversized for a 1" zone. You might want to run several at the same time depending on the ability of your well to produce water.QUOTE]

Pump has a 1.5" outlet. I was thinking of running 1.5" pipe to the front and back yards then branch out with 1"{?} to the different sprinkler heads. I would like to run it as a single zone system.

If the well will produce enough water; why not. That would be the most efficient way to wet your yard. The more water a pump produces the more work it is doing, but so what, it's designed to do just that, so do it with one zone. That way you can get the job done in 25% of the time and not run the pump as long as if you had four zones. It would me much more efficient electrically.

bob...

brookviewlawncare
01-03-2007, 06:40 PM
The job of a irrigation system is not just to throw water over the yard :hammerhead: I have a tuff time believeing that head type, spacing ,and precip rate would be that good on a one zone system Just my thinking and have been wrong before

Wet_Boots
01-03-2007, 06:55 PM
Florida sand could be pretty forgiving of overwatering, if it came to that. I'm curious to see just what that well point is producing. I've done the 'bucket test' with a 30 gallon garbage can and a inch-and-a-half discharge hose.

Ray Kane
01-03-2007, 07:16 PM
My gola it to run these tests this weekend. Does it matter how long my 1.5" discharge pipe is for the test to be accurate?

Wet_Boots
01-03-2007, 07:23 PM
Nope. If you don't have the pump hose I used, then just jury-rig some 1 1/2" pipe so it pours into that garbage can. The idea is to time how long it takes to fill the can, while noticing the pressure upstream of the shutoff valve. Then you open or close the valve a bit, to get a different pressure reading on that gauge, and repeat the filling and timing. That way, you can create your own pump performance curve.

Ray Kane
01-03-2007, 08:00 PM
The idea is to time how long it takes to fill the can, while noticing the pressure upstream of the shutoff valve. Then you open or close the valve a bit, to get a different pressure reading on that gauge, and repeat the filling and timing. That way, you can create your own pump performance curve.
What GPM am I looking for?
What PSI am I looking for?

Wet_Boots
01-04-2007, 06:05 AM
Start with a 20 psi discharge pressure, and work your way up, 5 psi at a time. The GPM is what you will be measuring, by way of the simple volume over time calculation. You'll have five or six points from which you can make your own chart.

speedbump
01-04-2007, 09:07 AM
The biggest measurement I would like is the one with the 1.5" pipe wide open. No pressure. This will tell you what the well is capable of in gallons per minute. As you increase back pressure, the volume is naturally going to drop.

bob...

Wet_Boots
01-04-2007, 09:30 AM
Not a whole lot you can accomplish at less than 20 psi, though, so it would only be for the sake of satisfying curiousity that you'd want readings at lower outlet pressures. Cavitation might show up somewhere along the line, so this pump might need to run a flow that will be providing higher outlet pressures.

speedbump
01-04-2007, 09:34 AM
I agree WB, but when we test pump a well, we always test pump it at open flow to see what the maximum the well is capable of. Then we know it will perform good at higher pressures.

Since he has a 1.5hp self primer on this well, if it only produces 20 gpm for instance, he has a pump that is going to cavitate all the time since it's three times bigger than he would need for that well.

bob...

Wet_Boots
01-04-2007, 09:46 AM
I'm kind of envious of what Florida well points can supply. I sometimes have such stingy supplies, that I have to calculate with decimal points the gpm I can run, and the nozzles to use. Even a standard half-horse jet can be too strong, and I'll use a high-head model, so it isn't trying to pull too much water.

speedbump
01-04-2007, 10:47 AM
Well, that can be the case with some of the well points here. They are different everywhere you go. Some places they produce great and other places you won't even find sand. The type of points used make a big difference too. I have a friend that manufactures 1" and 1-1/4" points out of PVC 160 psi. I don't know how he does it, but these things have more opening than they have PVC. You can really get some water through them. Problem is, you must make the hole first then throw then down. You can't hammer on them at all.

I have a 5" 20 foot well in the back of my property to irrigate palm trees. When I bought the place years ago, it had a 10hp centrifugal on it and you couldn't cavitate the pump. Since it burned up, I have a 5hp that will do 200+ per minute and it easily gets all the water it wants. There is 10 foot of casing and no screen. Just a hole in the sand. Don't ask me how it works without pumping more sand than water it just does. I have another well just like it 300 feet or so away and it produces 13 gpm. That's all. Go figure.

bob...

Ray Kane
01-07-2007, 06:30 PM
The biggest measurement I would like is the one with the 1.5" pipe wide open. No pressure. This will tell you what the well is capable of in gallons per minute. As you increase back pressure, the volume is naturally going to drop.

bob...

I set up the discharge with 1.5" pipe to a 90* and ran the pump for about 10 minutes. I had a little bit of light brown come out for 15 seconds at first then it cleared up. I filled a 5 gallon bucket in 12 seconds = 25 gallons a minute.

my yard is going to need a mixture consisting of 7 rotors, 6 pop ups and a few bubblers mixed between the front and back yards. Pump is in the middle of the side yard so I can "T" off the 1.5" discharge

Can I do it as a single zone?

drmiller100
01-07-2007, 07:21 PM
I set up the discharge with 1.5" pipe to a 90* and ran the pump for about 10 minutes. I had a little bit of light brown come out for 15 seconds at first then it cleared up. I filled a 5 gallon bucket in 12 seconds = 25 gallons a minute.

my yard is going to need a mixture consisting of 7 rotors, 6 pop ups and a few bubblers mixed between the front and back yards. Pump is in the middle of the side yard so I can "T" off the 1.5" discharge

Can I do it as a single zone?

you sure can. will be an incredibly crappy system, but you can do exactly what you want.

like the man said, 25 gallons a minute at no pressure is a meaningless number. for that matter, pretty small yard to cover it all well with only the 13 sprinklers.

Precision
01-07-2007, 07:37 PM
I set up the discharge with 1.5" pipe to a 90* and ran the pump for about 10 minutes. I had a little bit of light brown come out for 15 seconds at first then it cleared up. I filled a 5 gallon bucket in 12 seconds = 25 gallons a minute.

my yard is going to need a mixture consisting of 7 rotors, 6 pop ups and a few bubblers mixed between the front and back yards. Pump is in the middle of the side yard so I can "T" off the 1.5" discharge

Can I do it as a single zone?

why is running only one zone so important? Rotors and pop ups do not play well on the same zone.

You will have much more flexibility, better coverage and lots less headaches running at least 2 zones. And it won't cost much more than the 2 valves to do it.

Around here, 4 valve systems are the common thing on 1/4 acre lots. But it is Florida and we like our indexing valves and the smallest i've seen is a 4 valve that with a special cam will run as a 3 zone.

Dirty Water
01-07-2007, 08:24 PM
You guys with your well points crack me up.

Out here, we are solid bedrock 10' down.

And then you need to go at least 80' to find water. Steel casing and drilling rigs are the only way to do it.

I can see why everyone has their own private wells in Florida if you just wash one down the sand with a garden hose :D

Wet_Boots
01-07-2007, 08:45 PM
why is running only one zone so important? Rotors and pop ups do not play well on the same zone.Hey, if the guy can't afford a pressure gauge to make an accurate performance test, I suppose a timer and a pump relay and some zone valves are not in the budget.

Precision
01-07-2007, 09:12 PM
Hey, if the guy can't afford a pressure gauge to make an accurate performance test, I suppose a timer and a pump relay and some zone valves are not in the budget.

good point. I just have a difficult time with false economy.

Wet_Boots
01-07-2007, 09:19 PM
Come to think of it, no pump relay required, if he uses an indexing valve and that special electromechanical timer that turns the pump on and off.

Ray Kane
01-07-2007, 09:35 PM
Hey, if the guy can't afford a pressure gauge to make an accurate performance test, I suppose a timer and a pump relay and some zone valves are not in the budget.

"Like the man said, 25 gallons a minute at no pressure is a meaningless number. for that matter, pretty small yard to cover it all well with only the 13 sprinklers."

First of all, I have a pressure gauge and can afford any equipment I need to install and test the system. In a previous post by speedbump on 1/4/07 I was told to find out what the GPM out of the pump and that is what I did.

Secondly, you are correct on it being a pretty small area to cover. There is a large driveway and numerous walkways around the house. The planted areas cover less than half of the lot. I made sure all heads overlap one another.


"why is running only one zone so important?"

Several reasons - I hate those indexing valves but I am leery about using electrical valves. If the valve fails to open what happens to the pump? If there was a way to have the pump shut downif the valve failed then i would go for it. I would even look into replacing the 2" check valve with an electric one to open when the pump comes on.

As previously posted, my neighbor across the street has the same size area to water and is doing so with a mixture of heads all on one zone. It seems like an easier way to do it.

"Rotors and pop ups do not play well on the same zone"

Which brings up another problem. Both the back and front yards have planted areas where rotors wouldn't work. The front needs 3 rotors and 3 pop ups. The back needs 4 rotors and 3 pop ups. It seems like I might not have enough to run multiple zones without problems at the pump discharge.

I appreciate most of the information in this thread. Suggestions on a setup {controllers, valves, etc.} are appreciated. If you want to say I can't afford the project, keep the comments up north where they belong. For the record, I purchased this pump from a charity auction and paid more for it than I could at an irrigation supply

Wet_Boots
01-07-2007, 09:57 PM
So buy a pressure gauge and make some genuine measurements. What's stopping you? Until you match flow with pressure, and make a real performance curve, all you've determined so far is that you can fill a bucket in twelve seconds.

There are various safeguards available for protecting pumps from no-flow conditions.

Ray Kane
01-07-2007, 10:15 PM
So buy a pressure gauge and make some genuine measurements. What's stopping you? Until you match flow with pressure, and make a real performance curve, all you've determined so far is that you can fill a bucket in twelve seconds.

There are various safeguards available for protecting pumps from no-flow conditions.

Um, did you miss the part in my previous posts? I have a pressure guage and my next step IS TO MAKE A PERFORMANCE CURVE! I RAN OUT OF DAYLIGHT AND DIDN'T THINK MY NEIGHBORHOOD WOULD APPRECIATE ME SETTING UP A FLOODLIGHT!

A couple of questions:

What are the various safeguards available for protecting pumps from a no-flow condition? I like the idea of having the pump stay on and have the controller switch the zones

Can I replace the 2" check valve with a 2" electric valve to operate with the pump? Is there a controller that could operate the pump relay and a 2" electric "check valve"

Since rotors and pop ups don't mix, how would I zone my yard? From my previous post:
The front needs 3 rotors and 3 pop ups. The back needs 4 rotors and 3 pop ups. It seems like I might not have enough to run multiple zones without problems at the pump discharge.
Would the solution be to run all pop ups?

Wet_Boots
01-07-2007, 10:42 PM
We don't miss anything. We don't assume anything. We are experienced enough to encounter DIY folks who consistently fail to do their homework. Who fail to exercise due diligence.

Do the work. Map out your property. Make the performance curve. Bring them back for others to view, and you can obtain useful information.

No such thing as an 'electric check valve' unless you have a four-figure budget for process control valves used in critical industrial applications.

Pump safeguards include paddle-type flow sensors, pressure relief valves, and pressure control switches.

Ray Kane
01-07-2007, 11:00 PM
We don't miss anything. We don't assume anything. We are experienced enough to encounter DIY folks who consistently fail to do their homework. Who fail to exercise due diligence.

Do the work. Map out your property. Make the performance curve.

Well you missed several things in my posts including the fact I already have, and used a pressure gauge. My very first post had that information in it.
I have also "done my homework" and mapped out my property - something else you missed, or ignored. I posted the information "for review" including how many and what type of heads I am using. You have unjustly criticized me more than you have answered my questions.

I will try again - What is the simplest way to run 6 pop ups and 7 rotors in my front and back yard?

Wet_Boots
01-07-2007, 11:15 PM
Good-bye. You can indulge in mental masturbation on your own.

Dirty Water
01-07-2007, 11:27 PM
Ray,

http://www.irrigationtutorials.com

Read this site twice.

We get someone like you here once a month, ask a bunch of questions, and then dissapear.

As professionals, I can tell you that there is a lot more that goes into a sprinkler system than you expect. Quite frankly, I'm surprised there are 5 pages of posts here, as I figured we would have gotten tired to this a while back.

Go the site I linked, read it until your understand it, and then you'll see why Boots is being cranky.

Ray Kane
01-07-2007, 11:43 PM
I am familiar with Jess' site and it is a fantastic source of information. I visited the site frequently when I installed the system at my previous residence. I did not find any information regarding index valves or running a small system like the one I am currently installing.

I thought you were supposed to ask questions and exchange information on forums. It was not aware that this was a forum for people "in the business"

It took more time and energy to post insults than it would have to answer my questions. Disregarding questions and telling someone they are too cheap to buy materials and to indulge in mental masturbation isn't very "professional" in any field of work.

Wet_Boots
01-08-2007, 12:25 AM
I thought you were supposed to ask questions and exchange information on forums.What exchange information? You ask questions that require the questioner to supply specific information. You consistently fail to supply that information. You. Do. Not. Get. It.

I do estimates, and carry a flow-and-pressure gauge with me. and always use it whan evaluating a homeowner's supply. Invariably, some homeowners will seem to want me to not perform the testing.

"I've got great water pressure," they'll say.

"That's wonderful," I'll reply. "I can install a great system at a great price. However, you might want something more specific, so I'll just go about getting some specific numbers on your water supply."

PurpHaze
01-08-2007, 08:19 AM
As previously posted, my neighbor across the street has the same size area to water and is doing so with a mixture of heads all on one zone. It seems like an easier way to do it.

The reason rotors and pop-up spray heads are not mixed into the same zone are because they have great disparity in delivery and are not matched in precipitation rates. You run the risk of flooding out the spray pop-up area when having to leave the rotors on long enough to adequately lay down enough water. If you cut the time back so the sprays don't flood out then you risk the rotor areas drying out from lack of water.

I know you stated that your neighbor has a mixed system and all is fine but professional irrigation designers do not mix unmatched sprinklers. In areas where system auditing is required a "mixed zone" system will never pass the auditing process. I'm willing to bet that there is a sprinkler head out there that can be used to water all zones at the same time though. Hard to tell though without an accurate plot plan.

Wet_Boots
01-08-2007, 08:35 AM
You want a plot plan? Sorry, Charlie. That information is withheld on a need to not know basis.

PurpHaze
01-08-2007, 08:41 AM
You guys been tough while I've been away. :laugh:

Wet_Boots
01-08-2007, 08:59 AM
It's the football games. NY teams are one and done.

Ray Kane
01-08-2007, 09:03 AM
NY teams are one and done.

Too bad your posts aren't that way

Wet_Boots
01-08-2007, 09:17 AM
Listen up, you ignoramus. You will be long gone when qualified pros are still doing their work. You are not supplying needed information, and I am calling you out on it.

Sprinkler heads use varying amounts of water. I install rotors that use less than one gpm, and I install rotors that use more than fifteen gpm. I install popup sprays that use more than five gpm, and sprays that use one-tenth gpm.

Telling us what number of sprays and rotors you intend to use is telling us nothing. (and if you could really comprehend that tutorial site, you'd already know that)

Instead of griping, go out and make the pressure-and-flow measurements. Make a plot plan and upload it to the internet, and post that.

speedbump
01-08-2007, 10:04 AM
First of all, I have a pressure gauge and can afford any equipment I need to install and test the system. In a previous post by speedbump on 1/4/07 I was told to find out what the GPM out of the pump and that is what I did.


With the maximum gallons per minute known, you can simply do the math for the head you need to operate the sprinklers, such as 40 psi = 92 feet plus the lift in the well, say 10 feet now = 102 feet and use a pump curve. That will get you as close as you need to be. Since that centrifugal can only make a total of 50 psi anyway, what's the difference if a zone uses less water than the bigger ones. It's not going to hurt the pump as long as he doesn't have it on a pressure switch.

bob...

Wet_Boots
01-08-2007, 10:30 AM
Measure it. Don't go reading curves if you are not dead certain it is a brand-new pump in perfect condition. (and you don't know that unless you take measurements anyway) ~ and without a suction gauge, you don't know what the lift really is.

I remember one line of jet pumps that shipped out a number of duds, that a lot of contractors never knew about, since they were using them as boosters, with flooded suction. Only when you tried to lift water did the flaw become obvious.

drmiller100
01-08-2007, 10:57 AM
what he said.

go measure your gpm at 50 psi. report back.

a 3 rotor zone is a triangular piece of lawn with 3 even sides each 20-30 feet across.
a 4 rotor zone is a rectangular piece of property 20-30 feet to a side.

get a clock with a pump relay capability. get a pump relay. wire it up.

fundamentally you can't run drip or bubblers off of a horse and a half well unless you have a BUNCH of them, like a nursery.

or, get a timer on your well and just flood irrigate. with a small yard and a 1.5 horse well, you are probably talking about 30 minutes of run time to flood it.

Wet_Boots
01-08-2007, 12:32 PM
I kind of doubt that pump could reach 50 psi ~ http://www.staritepumps.com/specs/sys_ds3_series_specs.pdf (note that Sta-Rite now shows the DS3 series instead of the DS2 on their website)

I wonder if that 'bucket test' was performed with a wide-open discharge, or whether that garden hose stuff is still in the circuit. I'm thinking that either there was enough outlet restriction to provide some unspecified outlet pressure, or that the actual suction lift was close to limit, with the according performance drop-off.

speedbump
01-08-2007, 02:37 PM
Actually it's shutoff pressure is 54 psi. But there is very little flow at 50 psi.

bob...

Wet_Boots
01-08-2007, 02:54 PM
Even with a 25 foot lift? If that point can only supply 25 gpm, then that pump is overkill. I always thought the standard utility pump performance was about 40 gpm per horsepower, at optimum conditions, and the best (lowest operating cost, that is) sprinkling would be achieved with brass sprays, or a select few rotors, like an R-50 (rain curtain nozzle) with the stator 'mis-adjusted' to provide low-pressure rotation.

drmiller100
01-08-2007, 08:38 PM
a horse and a half is a big pump.
the pump is really the wrong pump, but you can choke it down. you'd better be using 1.5 inch main lines, and probably a couple of 1 inch valves at a time. or, just let the pump pound at 1 inch line.

It's only money.

bicmudpuppy
01-15-2007, 10:44 AM
Are the specs the same for my pump {DS2HF-192PL} and the PD series pump?

Front yard will be 6 full spray heads, 10 1/2 spray heads and 4 1/4 spray heads.

Back yard will be 6-8 rotors

How much do I lose due to the 2" check valve?

Anyone have advice regarding zone indexing and pump timer controls?

Man, I've been gone awhile again and look at all the fun I've missed. BTW, I quoted the above just to compare to the more recent claims in the thread of 6 sprays and 7 rotors total. The funniest part of all this is the claim that we constantly get about this being a "professional forum" vs a "please waste lots of your time to answer questions for free from people who don't really want to understand anyway forum" (there is or used to be a "homeowner" question area, like most, I don't read it). And here I've gone and made a reply to a thread that should have been dead back at reply post 6.

Wet_Boots
01-15-2007, 11:49 AM
Six sprays. Twenty sprays. It's all good. Run it as a single zone. I still think it should be a single impact head on the roof, piped in plastic, to avoid the lightning rod effect.