Bobcat s250 questions.

[zedosix]

What year did the 120# chain show up on the s models. Specifically the s250. I am looking at a used s250 with 190 hrs on it. Fully optioned for 34,900. Is the price right or just normal.

[Tigerotor77W]

Late last year, on the K-series models.

That price (in Canadian dollars, I assume?) looks pretty good -- under $32k (USD) for an S250 seems like a good buy. (Other people need to chime in on this...) It's possible that Bobcat's underpricing it to get away from competition from Cat and Case, but I think that $30,000 for a barely used S250 is really sweet. You'll need to check that the machine isn't that low for a reason, however.

[zedosix]

I am demoing a brand new s220 in the morning, it has foot control, cab and heater. There is no A/C. Also missing the bobtach set up. He wants 40 canadian. Of course I would get the full warranty whatever that would be. Or......

I could pick up a used s250 with 190 hours, fully optioned including A/C. for 34,900 (29600 U.S.) On this unit there is a 90 day warranty only. The reason the guy didn't like the machine was due to the joystick control, seemed like his guys couldn't get used to it or something.

Any input would be appreciated.

[zedosix]

I forgot to mention it is also a 2 speed.

[Mike33]

I forgot to mention it is also a 2 speed.
Would you pm me on the 220 i am looking at buying new in the spring. I think the 220 would be a great machine i know it is the old 863. I think my price foe heat and air foot controls new around 33k. I like that series for grading i had a 763 and you could see out the side easier than my 185.
Mike

[bobcatboy]

thats a hell of a deal. I would jump on that deal real fast

[Tigerotor77W]

It's a good deal, but there's quite a difference between the two machines... what do you plan on doing with the skid-steer?

[zedosix]

It's a good deal, but there's quite a difference between the two machines... what do you plan on doing with the skid-steer?

Ripping asphalt, excavating drivweays, loading trucks, carrying crushed stone, some grading etc. Lifting pallets or close to full pallets of brick. A pallet of tumbled stone weights in @ 3,900lbs. Lifting and placing boulders that sort of thing.
The new machine is approx. 46,000 The used one with 190 hours is 34,900. If you figure 8% interest on 34900 or 1.9% for 46000 its not too far apart now. Also no warranty or very little on the used. I won't expect the same service if I bring them the used one with any sort of problem. One last thing I need to think about is my guys are used to foot controls, and the used one has the joystick. If it was only me operating it, it would be a no brainer.

[Tigerotor77W]

If you'll be lifting pallets of sod, you may want to reconsider the S220 -- it won't handle 4,000 pounds of pallet well at all. (In fact, the S250 will also be on the fence with that sort of load.) If you're limited to Bobcat, I think the S250 is a good deal (if you can buy an extended warranty, that'd be awesome), but if you're not you may want to consider looking at Deere and Case, and possible New Holland.

Any other opinions out there on machine pick or pricing?

[zedosix]

If you'll be lifting pallets of sod, you may want to reconsider the S220 -- it won't handle 4,000 pounds of pallet well at all. (In fact, the S250 will also be on the fence with that sort of load.) If you're limited to Bobcat, I think the S250 is a good deal (if you can buy an extended warranty, that'd be awesome), but if you're not you may want to consider looking at Deere and Case, and possible New Holland.

Any other opinions out there on machine pick or pricing?


Tipping load on the S250 is 5881 lbs. That is one wet pallet of sod my friend.
I am testing a 268b tomorrow at the same time. Will make my decision by the end of the week. I am going to try and lift a 4000 lb pallet of brick in my 5 ton and see what the effect is. Hopefully my face won't be on the ground.:)

[bobcatoh]

Zedosix,
I have to ask if you currently run or own a machine on a full time basis? The reason I ask is that the foot control machine and the joystick machine are two different animals.

I have over 11,000 hrs of seat time and can tell you that if you are used to foot control and grade with it you will not be happy with the joystick. If you've never ran a foot control machine and or have limited seat time, and got the joystick you would be happy with your purchase.

Over the last 11 years I have owned 9. I currently have three machines s220, and 2 t250's. I have owned an s250 it was a 2002 model. When they renumbered the machines from 863's to the new numbers they made changes to the machines to get away from some negative issues they were having.


They had made a pressure relief change in the drive system that I was not happy about, it was designed to bypass pressure at a lower pressure instead of bogging down the engine. The problem was it didn't take much to set it off.

All the skid steer manu. have, and use them so it's not a bobcat issue alone. I made them install the pressure relief valve for a 863. That made it acceptable, remember it is a 863 renumbered. They were also having problems with the Duetz engines The heads were warping, thats why they made some changes and lowered the rpm's. Unfortunately it didn't solve the problem.

If it has the Duetz you will have head problems. If it has Kubota you won't have any issues. Once again if you didn't have seat time in previous machines you wouldn't know about the pressure relief.


I don't know if they made any changes with the pressure relief in the manufacturing end.

To answer your original question about chains, the only issue you may have is if you run over the tire tracks. They have to be properly adjusted, they have to have enough slack to let the tires slip inside the track.


The drive chains do not have slack adjusters so they are not both exactly the same length. If the tracks didn't allow the tires to slip only one drive chain will be doing all the work. Eventually it will stretch and break no matter what size it is.

I know every one has their preference but I haven't found a machine that will outwork it and like the energizer battery, keep going and going.

I have demo ed the cat machines and being fly by wire like the joystick bobcat it just doesn't have the low end power at the track that you will get with the foot control bobcat. Like I said if you don't do finish grades this may not be a issue for you.

I forgot, someone made a comment about the s220 and the s250 being very different machines. The only big difference is that the s220 is a radial lift and the s250 is a vertical lift. The s250 is rated slightly higher in its capacity because of the vertical lift.

For those not in the know, radial lift means that the bucket, when raised is going up in a arc or radius. At the top of the arc, the bucket is close to the front plane of the cab. It means you have to get very close to load a tall truck. Not impossible though.
The vertical lift means just that. It raises the bucket straight up. Because of the different geometry of the vertical lift boom it can lift a little more weight.

The downside of the vertical lift boom is it's hard to see out the sides.


I currently have the 2004 t250 for sale if anyone is interested. You may pm me.

If anyone has any other questions I Will be happy to answer them.

[zedosix]

I am out of breath reading that. Welcome to the site. I have been in business for 21 years now and have owned 4 skidsteers to date. All thomas. I have narrowed my selection down to 2 machines. The new S250 which has the kubota motor and the cat 260 series. I much prefer the foot controls of the bobcat over the pilots of the cat. I have been using foot controls since my first skid steer in 1990. I don't have a problem using hand control since they are basically the same as my excavator. Its for the guys I am buying this machine since it is they who will be getting most of the seat time.
As far as the pressure release valve goes, personally I don't give a care, that is why I am buying new. You guys can talk all day about the mechanics of this and that, and the radial vs vertical, and my head spins. I like to buy new and not worry about what may go wrong, you know what if it breaks, I have another one to take its place until they fix the new one on warranty. Ok now I'm getting out of breath, have a good evening and once more welcome.:waving:

zed

[bobcatboy]

Tipping load on the S250 is 5881 lbs. That is one wet pallet of sod my friend.
I am testing a 268b tomorrow at the same time. Will make my decision by the end of the week. I am going to try and lift a 4000 lb pallet of brick in my 5 ton and see what the effect is. Hopefully my face won't be on the ground.:)
let me you that a s250 will lift full pallets of wet sod.I had a s250 and this thing will lift anything. You dont want a cat if you are going to be doing hard excavating lifting are anything hard at all. I have a 2004 246 and a s220turbo and the cat is gutless compared to the bobcat. The cat does not have good bucket edge visability like the bobcat. All you have to do is compare breakout forces in the cat is alot less than the bobcat. get the s250 you wont be sorry.

[zedosix]

All you have to do is compare breakout forces in the cat is alot less than the bobcat. get the s250 you wont be sorry.[/QUOTE]

Bobcats brouchures don't tell you what the break out force is. Not sure why, I can't find those #'s anywhere.

[Mike33]

Zedosix,
I have to ask if you currently run or own a machine on a full time basis? The reason I ask is that the foot control machine and the joystick machine are two different animals.

I have over 11,000 hrs of seat time and can tell you that if you are used to foot control and grade with it you will not be happy with the joystick. If you've never ran a foot control machine and or have limited seat time, and got the joystick you would be happy with your purchase.

Over the last 11 years I have owned 9. I currently have three machines s220, and 2 t250's. I have owned an s250 it was a 2002 model. When they renumbered the machines from 863's to the new numbers they made changes to the machines to get away from some negative issues they were having.


They had made a pressure relief change in the drive system that I was not happy about, it was designed to bypass pressure at a lower pressure instead of bogging down the engine. The problem was it didn't take much to set it off.

All the skid steer manu. have, and use them so it's not a bobcat issue alone. I made them install the pressure relief valve for a 863. That made it acceptable, remember it is a 863 renumbered. They were also having problems with the Duetz engines The heads were warping, thats why they made some changes and lowered the rpm's. Unfortunately it didn't solve the problem.

If it has the Duetz you will have head problems. If it has Kubota you won't have any issues. Once again if you didn't have seat time in previous machines you wouldn't know about the pressure relief.


I don't know if they made any changes with the pressure relief in the manufacturing end.

To answer your original question about chains, the only issue you may have is if you run over the tire tracks. They have to be properly adjusted, they have to have enough slack to let the tires slip inside the track.


The drive chains do not have slack adjusters so they are not both exactly the same length. If the tracks didn't allow the tires to slip only one drive chain will be doing all the work. Eventually it will stretch and break no matter what size it is.

I know every one has their preference but I haven't found a machine that will outwork it and like the energizer battery, keep going and going.

I have demo ed the cat machines and being fly by wire like the joystick bobcat it just doesn't have the low end power at the track that you will get with the foot control bobcat. Like I said if you don't do finish grades this may not be a issue for you.

I forgot, someone made a comment about the s220 and the s250 being very different machines. The only big difference is that the s220 is a radial lift and the s250 is a vertical lift. The s250 is rated slightly higher in its capacity because of the vertical lift.

For those not in the know, radial lift means that the bucket, when raised is going up in a arc or radius. At the top of the arc, the bucket is close to the front plane of the cab. It means you have to get very close to load a tall truck. Not impossible though.
The vertical lift means just that. It raises the bucket straight up. Because of the different geometry of the vertical lift boom it can lift a little more weight.

The downside of the vertical lift boom is it's hard to see out the sides.


I currently have the 2004 t250 for sale if anyone is interested. You may pm me.

If anyone has any other questions I Will be happy to answer them.

Very nice post, i guess since this will be # 800 post for me it should be worth while. Very good points, im getting ready to buy my 4th. bobcat this spring. I started in business in 94 with with 753 traded in 99 for 763 tradeed in 02 for 185. I am going to keep 185 now and get a 220. I do a lot of finish grading and my old 763 was sweet. I could see out the side better. Good point on loading but i could still load a steel bed tri-axle with it. The 185 is easier loading as you explained but the 220 is a bigger machine in general and will do fine loading. I am used to foot controls and will stay with them im getting to old to learn others. I was on a 300 all wheel with the joy stick, i would pay admission to watch some one grade with it. I have a lot of seat time also but looked like a complete domb ass on it.
Mike

[GreenMonster]

Zed,

With the low interest rate on the new machine, I'd think that would be the way to go. As you said, if the total cost over the life of the loan is close to the same, why not get the warranty, new technology.... and the little plastic bag over the seat :)

I've only been running skids for about 4 years now. I've had two different machines both with hand/foot controls. I've also demoed hand controls. I hope that my next machine is hand controls. I liked them much better, but for other more important reasons, I ended up with the machine with hand/foot. I can honestly say in about 1/2 hour, I was doing pretty well with the joysticks, and after a day in the seat, it was old hat. If you have decent operators, I really don't think it will be a problem. In 5 years, I think we'll have a hard time finding new iron with hand/foot controls.

Now, if you were to ask me to run an excavator with CAT controls -- LOOK OUT!

[Tigerotor77W]

I forgot, someone made a comment about the s220 and the s250 being very different machines. The only big difference is that the s220 is a radial lift and the s250 is a vertical lift.

And a corresponding published difference in breakout force. The S220 also weighs a bit less than the S250 -- and there's a lot to be said about how much the two will be able to lift based on this weight difference alone.

zedosix, the tipping load is rated with a bucket. In theory, if you can find a 5,881lb object that fits in a bucket, the S250 will tip. It shouldn't tip at 5,880lb. However, when you move from a bucket to forks, you'll notice immediately that if you try to lift 5,880 pounds of anything (assuming it's evenly distributed along the tines, as a pallet would be), you'll tip. The tipping load of an S250 with forks is less than 4,400 pounds -- Deere has published a video showing just that.

Bobcat does not publish breakout force (unofficially) because it is not the only measure of a machine's performance. The original S250 was rated at 6,840 lb tilt and 6,300 lb lift, though this has decreased to 5,500 lb tilt and 5,000 lb lift with the K-series.

bobcatboy, breakout forces do not tell the whole story, unfortunately. If they did, Deere would be selling two to one to all the other manufacturers.

I'll bow out of this thread and let the real operators continue with their experience. I really feel you should demo the S220 on a pallet of typical weight before you decide that its lift-arm geometry and hour meter make it a better machine.

[zedosix]

S250

First test I put against the bobcat was to lift a full pallet of brick. This is the typical weight I will be lifting. Just under 4000lbs. Sitting on level ground and lifting up to about 3' in height, no problem, lifting any higher it will spill the load. One thing that really concerned me was a cracking noise or metal to metal noise when I was lowering the pallet. Not sure what that was. I greased it and it still creaked. Almost like the arms were twisting.
Pushing thru a pile of crushed stone was a breeze, even considering it was partially frozen. Just set the blade at level ground a couple of inches off and away you go.

All of us liked the familiarity of the foot controls, so it was a no brainer to operate.

Nice machine, I will try a s300 tomorrow to compare lifting.




Cat 268b

Lifts same pallet to 7' easily with no sign of tilting. Very impressive. I got the cat salesman to lift for me since I am not totally used to the controls yet. He was going to lift to full height when I told him to stop. Wow that almost sold me there. No strange noises from the arms on this one.

Same thing, pushed thru pile of crushed stone no problem at all.

Pilot controls are very touchy I find, this is what concerns me the most about cat. Would probably get used to it in time, I'm sure of that.

Visibility is not as good as the bobcats.

I like the interior better on the bobcat but the cats is more suited to the enviornment we are working in.

Pushing machine to machine was a good test of the two. The bobcat stalled before the cat. I will be happy with either machine here. I will just flip a coin.... someone call it please.

[Tigerotor77W]

Out of curiosity, why would the load have spilled if you raised above 3 ft? Could the machine not keep the forks level?

[zedosix]

Out of curiosity, why would the load have spilled if you raised above 3 ft? Could the machine not keep the forks level?

Back tires came off the ground. Then load spilled, what I am trying to avoid is the tipping over of the bobcat when I pick up a pallet.

[bobcatboy]

S250

First test I put against the bobcat was to lift a full pallet of brick. This is the typical weight I will be lifting. Just under 4000lbs. Sitting on level ground and lifting up to about 3' in height, no problem, lifting any higher it will spill the load. One thing that really concerned me was a cracking noise or metal to metal noise when I was lowering the pallet. Not sure what that was. I greased it and it still creaked. Almost like the arms were twisting.
Pushing thru a pile of crushed stone was a breeze, even considering it was partially frozen. Just set the blade at level ground a couple of inches off and away you go.

All of us liked the familiarity of the foot controls, so it was a no brainer to operate.

Nice machine, I will try a s300 tomorrow to compare lifting.




Cat 268b

Lifts same pallet to 7' easily with no sign of tilting. Very impressive. I got the cat salesman to lift for me since I am not totally used to the controls yet. He was going to lift to full height when I told him to stop. Wow that almost sold me there. No strange noises from the arms on this one.

Same thing, pushed thru pile of crushed stone no problem at all.

Pilot controls are very touchy I find, this is what concerns me the most about cat. Would probably get used to it in time, I'm sure of that.

Visibility is not as good as the bobcats.

I like the interior better on the bobcat but the cats is more suited to the enviornment we are working in.

Pushing machine to machine was a good test of the two. The bobcat stalled before the cat. I will be happy with either machine here. I will just flip a coin.... someone call it please.
cat wont stall as fast as the bobcat. The caterpillar has the antistall feature wich I really like about my 246.

[zedosix]

Narrowed down to these two. Visibility is terrible on the 268b. Any comments regarding this issue is welcome.

[GreenMonster]

Zed,

I don't see tracks under either one of them :D

[zedosix]

Zed,

I don't see tracks under either one of them :D


No tracks. Still think there is alot to improve on the bobcat tracked models. Actually all tracked models. These two machines both lift, and dig with ease. The 10 grand I save will buy me another cargo trailer.

[Tigerotor77W]

Narrowed down to the S300 and the 262B? (How was the lifting on the S300 compared to the S250?) Did the S300 exhibit the same cracking noise that you heard on the S250? Does the S300 have AHC, foot pedals, or SJC? Is the 268B a cab machine? If so, does it have AC? If not, do you need it?

I didn't want to respond to your original query from the second page, in that you seem to want some operator opinion as well, but for the sake of repetition, perhaps it comes down to dealer support and safety. If your operators are more comfortable with foot pedals, that may be the way to go. Having had my first experience on a Cat skid, ISO controls are natural to me -- even Case-style controls are awkward for a bit -- but I'm not operating your skid. Safety is paramount, and your operators will tell you which one feels safer. If your operators do know the Case style, you can have your [edit: Cat] dealer order a loader with Case-style controls: but be aware that with this configuration, you cannot switch between ISO and Case.

You mentioned that visability is poor on the Cat. To where is it poor? I suspect it's especially bad to the tires and out the back (tad bit worse to the sides as well), so that's also a consideration. Will you frequently be in a situation where visability to those areas is crucial (crowded places, or in traffic)?

And dealer support. Which is closer? How clean is the storefront? What about the service garage? Who seems to sell more equipment? Does one sell the value of his brand, and the other sell comparisons? Do you have other equipment that is sold or serviced by one dealer already? Who will do your maintenance?

The Cat 268B is a high-flow machine -- is the S300 similarly equipped? Will you use high-flow attachments? If you plan to purchase them with the machine, which dealer is more willing to help you pick, choose, and price the attachment? Does one dealer have training available to show you how to use the attachment? (If you're not familiar with that process already)

Quite frankly, I don't want to put down my opinion (i.e. call heads or tails) because I'm really not in your situation. I also realized that marketing isn't always about showing how brand X beats brand Y, but how your own brand has great value -- be it features, performance, simplicity, comfort -- whatever it may be. However, since you asked (and to get others' emotions raging), I would pick the Cat. Based on product value, I think the Cat wins. Its components and machine design was intended for heavy applications; some of the A-series machines are still running -- one with over 14,000 hours at last count. The rear bumper is designed to hit obstacles, preventing the door from taking too much damage. The loader arms are connected to the machine with spherical bearings (in the joint directly to the rear of the cab). When you take torsional loads, such as those obtained by corner-loading the bucket, the spherical bearings swivel -- transferring the load to the frame. The axles are permanently lubricated, so that if you go on a hill, all the axle seals will still get oil. Certain competitive designs don't do this; when you're on an incline, the oil bath doesn't reach the seal. That being said, Cat's also suffered a quality problem with some of the B-series models, and I don't know whether that's been fully addressed. The Bobcat's cab is better and probably quieter. The bolts that need to be unscrewed in order to raise the cab are easier to get to than on the Cat.

For me, the ultimate 2,500 pound ROC skid-steer would combine the best features of the Cat and Bobcat. It's really a tough call, and honestly, if it comes down to picking between Yellow and white, go with whichever one seems more comfortable. If you've got a gut feeling, it might be worth it to follow it.

[zedosix]

The 300 lifts as well as the 268, I don't think any better but definetely as well. BTW for testing purposes only they don't have a 262 in stock so the 268 was all that was available. Same lifting specs. I heard no strange creaking noises when lifting with the 300. Maybe the 250 had a dry pin somewhere? The 300 has the foot controls no air. 262 has the cab with air.
The cat controls are very smooth, my pesonal favorite. The 300 I demoed in the picture has the joystick control. Basically same functions as the pilots but would have to say slower reaction times. I like the cats control over any other style but that is me and not my employees. They prefer the foot controls, but surely they could adapt.
As far as visability the bobcat is better. I did a little test by backing until I couldn't see the object (in this case a 12" diameter pipe). I was able to get within 15' or so before it was lost behind the cab. The bobcat I was able to back up to within 10' or so. Rear side view is not as good either. We do work in fairly confined quarters but the issue is backing down a driveway when there is no room to turn. We are talking on average a 40' long driveway. Residential area. There is a mirror in the cab but that only helps for tall objects.
High flow is not a concern for me I would only be using at most a breaker and maybe a power broom. I don't need the extra flow, in fact most attachments can be run today on reg. flow units.
Warranty has been extended from both cat and bobcat, dealer service is good with the cat , I deal with them on the rental side on a weekly basis. I have no doubt in my mind that they will stand behind their product. These people know me and what I am about.
As far as quality goes, I would have to put the edge on Cat. I do like there simple clean front arm design (where you enter the cab). The spherical bearings in the side arms are a great idea, the lube points are a breeze to access.
One last thing I need to consider is weight of machines. Bobcat is approx. 700lbs heavier which may be an issue for pulling. My float weighs 3200 and the limit I am allowed is 12000lbs.

[Tigerotor77W]

Regarding the control pattern -- have you given your operators a chance to try to learn the Cat pattern?

The visability issue -- particularly out the rear -- seems somewhat serious. If that's the bottom line, not the warranty or dealer support, then perhaps the safety factor has already weighted the equation heavily. I'm not sure if Cat installs roading mirrors on North America machines (all EU machines come with a roading package -- larger headlights, two mirrors, an SMV sign, turn signals), so if you really prefer that the Cat work out for you, perhaps you could look into that.

Anyone else have an opinion? My expertise is limited here mostly to what I've already said... any additional thoughts on the matter?

[zedosix]

Ya the guys have tried it out and yes they can figure it out, it will be a learning curve that shouldn't take long. Mind you my other one will remain in the fleet and it has foot controls.

I would love to hear from someone who has a 262b or 252 for that matter. I wonder if you are used to the large blind spots.

It may be my decision maker.

[JDSKIDSTEER]

cat wont stall as fast as the bobcat. The caterpillar has the antistall feature wich I really like about my 246.

Anti work valve.

[JDSKIDSTEER]

The 300 lifts as well as the 268, I don't think any better but definetely as well. BTW for testing purposes only they don't have a 262 in stock so the 268 was all that was available. Same lifting specs. I heard no strange creaking noises when lifting with the 300. Maybe the 250 had a dry pin somewhere? The 300 has the foot controls no air. 262 has the cab with air.
The cat controls are very smooth, my pesonal favorite. The 300 I demoed in the picture has the joystick control. Basically same functions as the pilots but would have to say slower reaction times. I like the cats control over any other style but that is me and not my employees. They prefer the foot controls, but surely they could adapt.
As far as visability the bobcat is better. I did a little test by backing until I couldn't see the object (in this case a 12" diameter pipe). I was able to get within 15' or so before it was lost behind the cab. The bobcat I was able to back up to within 10' or so. Rear side view is not as good either. We do work in fairly confined quarters but the issue is backing down a driveway when there is no room to turn. We are talking on average a 40' long driveway. Residential area. There is a mirror in the cab but that only helps for tall objects.
High flow is not a concern for me I would only be using at most a breaker and maybe a power broom. I don't need the extra flow, in fact most attachments can be run today on reg. flow units.
Warranty has been extended from both cat and bobcat, dealer service is good with the cat , I deal with them on the rental side on a weekly basis. I have no doubt in my mind that they will stand behind their product. These people know me and what I am about.
As far as quality goes, I would have to put the edge on Cat. I do like there simple clean front arm design (where you enter the cab). The spherical bearings in the side arms are a great idea, the lube points are a breeze to access.
One last thing I need to consider is weight of machines. Bobcat is approx. 700lbs heavier which may be an issue for pulling. My float weighs 3200 and the limit I am allowed is 12000lbs.
I vote for the dealer who has the best product support. You must be impressed with both to still be considering both.

[Dirty Water]

I vote for the dealer who has the best product support. You must be impressed with both to still be considering both.

I'd just like to give you my 2c.

Your negative opinion of your competitors products in your posts have made me hesitant to ever considering purchasing a JD machine if the time comes that I need to get another piece of equipment.

A professional chooses his words carefully, because he represents something much larger than himself.

Your many posts here have been nothing but derogatory and defensive, and quite frankly, I'd never deal with your dealership based on this.

Food for thought.

[Scag48]

I vote for the dealer who has the best product support. You must be impressed with both to still be considering both.

You sell equipment and you have this kind of attitude toward the competition? I'm surprised you're still in business.

[ksss]

You may try a CASE 465 as an option to the Bobcat. The cabs are not as nice but you can get them with pilots. With counter weight it has a ROC of 3600 pounds, 3000 without. Something to ponder if you have a dealer in the area. With the loader arms in the transport position it has good visibility, and a boat load of power.

[Scag48]

Oh yeah, forgot to mention, I don't blame you for not liking the 268's visibility, it sucks. Cat really needs to get that figured out. I highly doubt they will re-vamp their vertical lift linkage for the C series, but we'll see. Cat's radial lift machines, however, have great visibility. I'm surprised you find the S300 a whole lot better in the visibility department, I ran one shortly a few months ago and couldn't see a whole lot, really didn't like it. I agree that visibility out the back is way better with the Bobcat, but the side visility is just as bad, maybe worse than Cat.

[zedosix]

You sell equipment and you have this kind of attitude toward the competition? I'm surprised you're still in business.

What did I miss? I don't see any attitude?

[Scag48]

For some reason, I get the idea that he thinks it's a mistake that you're still considering these two. I could be wrong, but that's kinda how I took that statement, not sure if that was the intent or not.

[zedosix]

For some reason, I get the idea that he thinks it's a mistake that you're still considering these two. I could be wrong, but that's kinda how I took that statement, not sure if that was the intent or not.

I took it the other way, no matter. Okay, I got it all figured out now. I'll buy the two:)

[Dirty Water]

You have to read more than just one that post to understand the attitude that JDSKIDSTEER has towards anything but JD.

The gist of his posts was:

"If you HAVE to buy either cat or a bobcat, they must have really good dealers, because I can't think of anything that would sell them otherwise".

[JDSKIDSTEER]

For some reason, I get the idea that he thinks it's a mistake that you're still considering these two. I could be wrong, but that's kinda how I took that statement, not sure if that was the intent or not.
My opinion was I think you have narrowed it down to two machines and the tie breaker should be who is going to give you the best service. All companies make great machines and all have their weaknesses. Not all have good dealers in all areas and thats why they are not all good sellers in all areas. Consider how long your salesman has worked there, his product knowledge, and check with some customers in your area and ask them about the service they are getting. Chances are you are dealing with two good dealers since you are looking at both so hard. And Scag if he reads some of your post's he on Deere products he will see how anti Deere you are and yet I have never personally attacked you for your post's. I use this site to learn more about all brands strong and weak points. I will say I am pro Deere, that is what I sell but I never suggested he look at one and none of my post's are false, but I am definitely more pro dealer than I am brand name.

[Construct'O]

I didn't thing your second post was that bad because of suggestion support in his area.

But the one of the cat stall thing being (anti work stall) might have been a little over kill as far a professionalism goes.

Just put a smiley face behind it next time and it well go over a little better.

I do think your probably good at what you do.It does take a little different CAT (SMILEY) to be a saleman.Good luck.

[JDSKIDSTEER]

I didn't thing your second post was that bad because of suggestion support in his area.

But the one of the cat stall thing being (anti work stall) might have been a little over kill as far a professionalism goes.

Just put a smiley face behind it next time and it well go over a little better.

I do think your probably good at what you do.It does take a little different CAT (SMILEY) to be a saleman.Good luck.
You may be right.....Sorry for comment.,,,I take it back,:waving:

[Scag48]

You're right, I'll admit, I am anti-Deere when it comes to skid steers. Was never impressed by them and our local dealer sucks terribly. Excavators, on the other hand, I considered when we were shopping for a 3 ton mini and I even considered them again on a 120. But, after 3 phone calls to get a price for a 35C and no returned calls and 2 phone calls for a price on a 120CLC and no returned calls, I just gave up. My Cat dealer, on the other hand, gave us a rental machine to use for free until our 312 was delivered. I've never been impressed with the Deere service out here, it's about 20% of what I get at Cat.

Sorry I misjudged your comment a few posts back. I guess I jumped the gun.

[JDSKIDSTEER]

You're right, I'll admit, I am anti-Deere when it comes to skid steers. Was never impressed by them and our local dealer sucks terribly. Excavators, on the other hand, I considered when we were shopping for a 3 ton mini and I even considered them again on a 120. But, after 3 phone calls to get a price for a 35C and no returned calls and 2 phone calls for a price on a 120CLC and no returned calls, I just gave up. My Cat dealer, on the other hand, gave us a rental machine to use for free until our 312 was delivered. I've never been impressed with the Deere service out here, it's about 20% of what I get at Cat.

Sorry I misjudged your comment a few posts back. I guess I jumped the gun.
No problem. I sensed a long time ago that you must have had a bad incident with a dealer. Here we have a great Cat dealer. Cat salesman and I are friends. We do not bash each others products, but we do point out the differences and try to sell our strong points. We cannot out sell each other or our dealer support. We have never been able to convert each others customers. Other brands we both seem to be nibbling away around here. I did make the mistake of referring someone here into trying a Deere with a neigboring dealer and was sorry I did. He had a bad expedience with that salesman at the Deere dealership and was embarrassed by the way he was treated by the salesman.

[Tigerotor77W]

zedosix... what's the consensus?

[zedosix]

Probably order a s250. Only problem now is the limit my guys can haul around is 4600kg (5 tons) behind a truck. The weight is measured with trailer hooked up on the truck. I weighed a s250 with no fuel in tank and no counterweights. It came in at 4580. Too close to call. I need to contact the ministry to find out if there is any leniency on weight. I really don't want to go much smaller. I will probably try out a gehl 5640e turbo next week. I have not tried one before and since I still have a couple of months I may as well do my homework.

As a side note, I still may consider the used one with 190 hours, he will even throw in the pallet forks to make deal work. I think last call he was at 34,500 canadian for the package. It was a loaded machine.

[Tigerotor77W]

If I understand correctly, the weight is the total weight of both the trailer and machine?

[JDSKIDSTEER]

I went by Alabama DOT because I am pulling a 10 ton {20,000 lb.} trailer behind a 1 ton F350 I have to get class A's. Fortunately I already have b's and air break endorsement so I have to take combination written test and driving test. No big deal.

Any way I asked the lady at DOT and she said the rating of the truck and trailer rated over 26000 lb. combined required A's. I use to have my trailers derated to keep legal but DOT got smart and started checking the axles.:nono: And if you hit the scales with 50D or CT332 they would catch you anyway.

[zedosix]

In Ontario you need an "A" licence if you are towing over 10,000lbs (note this weight is calculated while it is attached to the tow vehicle. I have the required licence but the boys do not. I can get away with it if I drive the bobcat further up the trailer. Problem there is the tongue weight exceeds what is specified on the trailer hitch.

[dozerman21]

So if I wanted to pull my CT332 (app. 11,000lbs.) behind my 2500HD, could I do this legally using the factory hitch? I know Indiana laws may be different. I thought about buying another trailer sometime so I can take my loader out to certain jobs and not have to use my lowboy everytime. I don't want to install a 5th wheel though, since this is also my everyday truck. I'm guessing this would be too much tongue weight to be legal, by the time I combined the loader and trailer. My only option would be to have a 5th wheel, correct?

[zedosix]

So if I wanted to pull my CT332 (app. 11,000lbs.) behind my 2500HD, could I do this legally using the factory hitch? I know Indiana laws may be different. I thought about buying another trailer sometime so I can take my loader out to certain jobs and not have to use my lowboy everytime. I don't want to install a 5th wheel though, since this is also my everyday truck. I'm guessing this would be too much tongue weight to be legal, by the time I combined the loader and trailer. My only option would be to have a 5th wheel, correct?

If you have the correct licencing I don't see why you couldn't tow it with the lowboy trailer. Tongue weight is directly affected by proximity of the load to the back of the truck. Closer to the truck you are with your load the higher your tongue weight will be. Get your trailer and ct322 weighed while you are hitched up and also get it weighed while you are unhitched. With a few calculations you will see how much percentage of weight is on your hitch. Most hitches will have a tag on them showing max. tongue weight. Hope its not to confusing. Remember laws are different in every state, province.

[dozerman21]

If you have the correct licencing I don't see why you couldn't tow it with the lowboy trailer.

I'm pretty sure I'd be O.K. My lowboy is a 25 ton.:) I use that everyday, but I'd like to buy a tag trailer for my pickup so I can do certain jobs with my loader, and not have to drag my tractor/trailer out everytime. I know you probably misread my post, I'm just giving you a hard time.:laugh:

[JDSKIDSTEER]

So if I wanted to pull my CT332 (app. 11,000lbs.) behind my 2500HD, could I do this legally using the factory hitch? I know Indiana laws may be different. I thought about buying another trailer sometime so I can take my loader out to certain jobs and not have to use my lowboy everytime. I don't want to install a 5th wheel though, since this is also my everyday truck. I'm guessing this would be too much tongue weight to be legal, by the time I combined the loader and trailer. My only option would be to have a 5th wheel, correct?I have a customer pulling that way. I do not know if they are legal. I guess if hitch is rated to pull that much you would.:confused:

[ksss]

The factory hitch on your 2500 is much better taking up space in your scrap metal pile than tied to your pickup. I promptly remove them and put a class 5 hitch on them. Those hitches maybe fine for pulling small RV's and boats but not 11000 pound CTLs. If you take it off and compare it to a Class 5 you will see what I mean. Also make sure that your stinger is a solid piece of steel. The hollow stingers are not made for this type of weight either. You would think that they would put a hitch rated to the same rating as the pickup but they are not. I put a fifth wheel in my pickups with a flip over ball. Works well and doesn't cause problems in the bed.

[zedosix]

At long last I've made a decision on which skidsteer I want. After demoing a
s250, s300, and a cat 268b I've decided on this gehl 5640e turbo. Many factors came in too play including weight, lifting ability, size, and last but not least cost. It wins hands down in lifting (believe it or not) it was the only one capable of lifing the back end of a 5 ton truck off the ground! Size is perfect, I can see down both sides of the trailer when on the float, visibilty is far superior even with the towers on the side. Rear visabilty is excellent. Cost is somewhere in the 8 - 10 k cheaper than bobcat and cat. Meeting with the salesman tomorrow to go over a few minor details. Thanks to all who helped with their comments, this site has been very beneficial.

Andy

[NEUSWEDE]

thanks for updating the thread, I myself am in the skid steer market and was head toward the S250 and hadn't seen this thread and hadn't researched the Gehl yet. I check out the specs and I am impressed and now have another machine to look at and hopefully make my decision easier.

what kind of tirs are those?

[zedosix]

thanks for updating the thread, I myself am in the skid steer market and was head toward the S250 and hadn't seen this thread and hadn't researched the Gehl yet. I check out the specs and I am impressed and now have another machine to look at and hopefully make my decision easier.

what kind of tirs are those?

The tires are made by titan, I believe these are industrial type tires, not the tires that I will be using. I will be using the standard HD tires with beefed up sidewalls.

[Tigerotor77W]

The Gehl could lift a five-ton truck off the ground without tipping?!? :dizzy:

It's a good purchase -- I'm glad you chose to exhaust all your options first. Best of luck to you!

[zedosix]

The Gehl could lift a five-ton truck off the ground without tipping?!? :dizzy:

It's a good purchase -- I'm glad you chose to exhaust all your options first. Best of luck to you!

Picked the rear tires completely off the ground without tipping the rear. The bobcat s300 lifted its rear, the cat just gave up. To be honest I was shocked to see it happen.

[Tigerotor77W]

Picked the rear tires completely off the ground without tipping the rear. The bobcat s300 lifted its rear, the cat just gave up. To be honest I was shocked to see it happen.

Quoted for posterity, but that's absolutely amazing. It shows one thing: that when sizing machines, the "glitziness" of vertical lift may well wear off. That is, if you don't plan to use the skid-steer as a telehandler (and lift up and down all the time), even radial machines can handle a pallet. Or two. :D

[zedosix]

I just signed the deal on the 5640e turbo this morning. I ended up going with the pilot controls and hydraglide option. It is a 2 speed with cab, heat, suspension seat, counterweight option and the hd extreme tires. I am VERY impressed with the responsive controls. They react ( not bashing anyone else's product) much faster than 2 of their competitions pilots. After only 2 hours or so on the hand controls, I feel completely at ease. I know I will love it.

Andy

[Scag48]

No A/C? Looks like a killer machine, not a Gehl dealer to be seen around here, but I know the good reputation they have with the farmers out east.

[zedosix]

No A/C? Looks like a killer machine, not a Gehl dealer to be seen around here, but I know the good reputation they have with the farmers out east.

I will be removing the cab in the summer time anyway, so I don't need the air. For the winter months I will need the heat. Delivery date is early to mid March. Can't wait to play in the snow with it.

[GreenMonster]

Andy, congrats on the purchase. Hope it makes you lots and lots of money.

No A/C though???? I don't know that I'll ever go that route again. We're in and out a lot doing h/s, so it's not a big deal, but it sux in the summer when it's dry and you're running a harley rake with no cab :(

[NEUSWEDE]

I spent the day at a bunch of dealers and hands down I like the Gehl. All the dealers except Gehl tried to push their product hard. The gehl is a better machine and about 10-15K less than the s250

My thoughts are the same with the a/c, the door is coming off for the summer just need the heat for plowing.

I appreciate it you helped make my decision, weird it will take so long to get it, my dealer said I needed 2 weeks lead time tops before I wanted it.

now just have to find a trailer and sweeper!

Thanks again

[zedosix]

I spent the day at a bunch of dealers and hands down I like the Gehl. All the dealers except Gehl tried to push their product hard. The gehl is a better machine and about 10-15K less than the s250

My thoughts are the same with the a/c, the door is coming off for the summer just need the heat for plowing.

I appreciate it you helped make my decision, weird it will take so long to get it, my dealer said I needed 2 weeks lead time tops before I wanted it.

now just have to find a trailer and sweeper!

Thanks again

Congrats on your puchase, maybe we should start a gehl club or something. lol. I guess since we are in Canada it will take longer to get one. As a side note I ordered it with the power tach and will get them to re-route the line on the side of the arm.
Here is a picture of what I am talking about. They are aware of the issue and he mentioned that the 07's would probably be re-routed already.