someone help me understand

[Dingo]

If you can buy a good 21" craftsman mower from sears with 6 hp bagger,mulcher and side discharge for $200 and it has a 2 year warranty why would you want to buy a $900 21" mower from toro with a one year warranty? It makes more sense to buy a new $200 every 2 years doesnt it?

[bw]

sounds good to me, but i don't know how they would hold up mowing 8 to 10 hours a day for 4 or 5 months

[Charles]

Along time ago I bought a sears push mower, blower, and chainsaw. I mean along time ago before I know any better. The mowers carburator started leaking fuel. The blower internally vibrated apart. The chainsaw was crap and clutch burned up and the chain fell off all the time. Sure they give a warranty. And they will try to fix it over and over and over and over. And if yours is like mine u will rarely get to use it for very long before you have to send it back for their wonderful warranty.

[gene gls]

Sears warranty is for homeowner. Quality is like night and day.

[sue]

they don't hold up for nothing when you mow 8 to 10 yards a week, they are made for your own home. but if thats what you like good luck.

[Dingo]

yeah i know it would kill over in a heartbeat if you were using it full time but i am talking about just using it just for those few gates i cant fit through with my exmark. or those hills that are to steep. I dont think it would get more than 30-50 min of use a day

[plymouthvaliant73]

I have one of those 21 inch toros (electric start, self propelled, rear bagger) from 1978 twenty two years ago. It still runs, mows lawns and the parts are in stock at the dealer.

[valhalla]

comfort is the first thing that comes to mind<br>If your only going to hold on to the thing for 30-50 minutes,okay. But if you have to run it any longer the quality of a top line<br>21 inch will show through. I use a Honda Harmony HRM,very low vibration,easy starting<br>and a blade brake clutch.<br> <br><p>----------<br>Valhalla lawn and pool<br>

[MWHC]

Chances are good you will find the mower in the Sears repair shop more than you find it in the backyard. Sears makes mowers for homeowners. Can you deal with not having it for 2 weeks at a time? 2 weeks is probably the mean time in the shop per repair. It's up to you but I would go with commercial equipment. If you go shopping at Sears, I would be looking at tools, not mowers.

[BLUECAR202]

Hey now, don't make fun of sears. I work at a Sears near Chicago. And we offer quality at a great price. We have the best warrenties on the market. For the push mowers, you can purchase a maintainance agreement which covers a tune up each year and unlimited service calls for any other problems. And the best part is, the plans start out at $90 for three years, the same price ONE tune up is going for now. And if you choose to get the ---repair aggreement on tractors---- (an extra 250-300$$) anything that goes wrong for 3 years will be replaced free of charge at your house. How about saving money on those electronic clutches, flat tires and pulleys that are bound to break. Also if you run over a tree stump and ruin your deck, it will be replaced, for no charge. So why not start buying craftsman and use it commercially. Then again why wouldn't you want to own the best machines on earth.

[Hardy Enterprises]

The only Sears mower I have ever dealt with was a 21&quot; self propelled mower that felt like you was pushing an exmark even when the self propelled wasn't broken which wasn't very often. Also, I doubt that it would last very long on the side of a hill unless the new ones have a pressurized oil systems.

[BLUECAR202]

give me a call, mike at 630 820 6000. if i am not in, ask for kevin, jason or mike. They have experience with toros and realize that craftsman is the best. The 21&quot; exmarks (toro), john deeres, craftsman, and mtd (junk), all have the same engine.

[bob]

There is no such thing as a &quot; good Sears craftsman mower&quot;. ( I call them craps-man). Do you think Sears is going to give you special service just because you use the mower for commercial applications? Heres what will happen; drop one month mower off at service center for repair, pick it up 3-4 weeks later, take back to service center 1 week later with same problem. It's better to buy a name brand mower-Deere-Honda-Toro, and have the piece of mind that it will perform when you need it to.

[Lance720]

I was have used both types in the last year. A toro and a craftsman. Both were self-propelled unit. The crafstman was by far slower and did not bag nearly as well. If you have damp turf your lucky to get the bag 1/2 full. The toro is better, not full bags but better. <br> As far as your warrenty goes(the above post) if I pay my extra 250$ for your extended warrenty how many week will you have my mower? I'm in B.C. Canada and have a old mowing client who I still do landscaping for whose 21&quot; mower was blowing blue after one month. He waited three weeks for his unit to be returned. How would this help me as a contractor?<br> For the homeowner or very part timer pherhaps Sears(Home depot etc.) may work but you will be buying replacing these machines as soon as you begin to grow. I'm Landscaping 2 days per week and was able to get 1.5 yrs from craftsman type equipment. Save yourself the headaches and do it right the first time.<br> On another I to still use a Weedeater feather light weedeater. They are cheap light and easy to repair. I do not use them for heavy brushing but for and type of edging and trimming they are great. I do not see the advantage of a large weedeater for the smaller duties but that's me...<br> Lance<br>

[Lazer]

This is embarrassing:<p>We have $80,000 worth of mowing equipment in our fleet.<p>Our 21&quot; mowers = Sears.<br>

[HOMER]

I have a Snapper Super Six self propelled and short of having to clean the carb. 2 x per year cause I won't change the filter, it's been a good machine. It will cut as fast as you want it to. It has a six speed manual tranny, 6hp, rear wheel drive. I roasted the rubber off of it one day!!!!!! Too much power for a beginner. Ya, I'd stick to the Craftsman if your just starting out, them Snappers are meeeeeeeeeeeaaaaaaaannnn!<p>Homer<p>P.S. It aint even a commercial unit, had it goin' on 4 yars now.<br>

[Charles]

When I said the carb leaked. At the time i wasn't even using it. It was parked for the winter. The mechanic who repaired it said that if you let some sears more sit for awhile the float a majig in the carb will deteriate and it will leak or pur gas out like mine did. I just had a couple of yards with fences. The cost me 40$ repair. What good is a warranty if you put hte machine in the shop with sears and they keep it to weeks and then you get it back and within a couple of days the same thing is wrong with it. I had that happen like the above post said. I sold all that stuff as junk even while the maintenance agreement was in place. This is when I first started. That is suppose to be what this forum is about. Learning from other contractors mistakes and experiences. Good or bad.

[lawrence stone]

Go to your Toro dealers and see if they have<br>any used 21&quot; commercials. I bought a very low hour unit for $250 that just had a new trans installed (the customer never picked it up).<p>I also let get thru my hands a few years ago<br>a top of the line 21&quot; homeowners model toro<br>with blade brake and a suzuki engine for $150.That also was at a dealer.

[yardsmith]

Craftsman is made by MTD nowadays, so it's all the same anyways. I bought a &quot;last yrs. model for half price&quot; Yard man top-o-the-line with 6 spd. & 6 hp motor, & it lasted me about 2 1/2 yrs. on a part time basis. You gotta remember we live in a throwaway society & most everything is built like that.<br>The avg. homeowner uses a pushmower 20-30 times a yr. 2-3 yrs. is about all you get out of today's pushmowers. With us, we'd put 1 years' worth of mowing on it in 1-2 weeks!<br>And you wonder why they don't hold up? You must also consider that many stores won't honor the warranty if they think/find out you use it for commercial purposes. The mtd's just aren't made for that. As you take it in to get fixed, sears will put you at the end of the line like everyone else, & an engine rebuild usually costs more than a new mower! A mower shop will get you back on the lawns much quicker than sears who could care less about your $200 investment. They have nothing to gain by helping anyone out. The mower shop depends on commercial guys for bus., & wants repeat bus. from them, so they are a priority. Service after the sale is more important than the purchase in this trade. &quot;The bitterness of poor quality lingers on long after the sweetness of low cost is forgotten&quot;.<p>----------<br>Smitty ô¿ô<p>

[Lazer]

What I do is buy new every year and then sell them the following spring. I do this with ALL equipment that is less than $1,000.<p>I've found this gives the lowest operating costs, least downtime, and best employee moral.

[Keith]

Lazer, on your small equipment, how do you go about selling it? Advertise? How much do you recover of the original cost? I have thought about doing this to keep everything new and in good working order.

[MTS Services]

I made the mistake of buying crapsman to get started. Went thru two of them in about 3 weeks. I got my money back and got smart, I went and baught a Toro 2 cycle. Haven't had any trouble with it.<br>Matt

[Lazer]

Keith,<br>Normally we sell 5-6 pieces word of mouth and to friends. The rest is sold at the Spring lawn maintenance auction held annually with a regional auctioneer.<p>We usually get 55-65% cumulatively.

[Richard Martin]

Craftsman and John Deere have the same engine? Hardly. Externally maybe, but that's where the resemblence stops. It is a fact that the John Deere engine is built better with closer tolerances and little things like Loc-Tite to hold it together. Ever see a grease fitting on a Craftsman? John Deere has them. You get what you pay for.

[cjcland]

why not just get a toro 36? why a 21 are the gates really that small?and homer i agree with you about the snappers i have a 48&quot; hydro w/b and its great bought it used 2 years ago and the only thing i have had to fix was the clutch and thats because the wire rubbed on the pully and i couldnt put another 1 in my favorite thing is you can adjust the tracking with a lever right there on the go<p>----------<br>CJC Landscape Management<br>Winter Haven, Florida

[Lance720]

I'm in canada. Craftsman mower here use a Tacumpsy(I'm sure that's not spelled right) and Johne Deere are running Kawasaki's.<br> <br>

[Dave]

Richard ,who ever told you that the specs for jd and tol,is full of crap.the only diff,is the end of the crank,these motors get put together the same way as they do for any other tractor.if they did not the rods would burn up or they would nock like hell.and so on and so on,and i sure as these engines are goining down the assy line <br>so get loctight and some don,t ya right

[Toroguy]

If you want a cheapie try Home Depot, The Scotts brand there is manufactured by John Deere. I like Craftsman tools, but the worst mower I have ever used was a craftsman...the 21&quot; self propelled are geared at grandma speed, pushing it is a lot faster for buzzing into small areas.

[Barkleymut]

I bought a 21&quot; Lawn Boy last year. It has a 2 cycle 6.5 HP engine that is commercial duty. It cuts pretty well compared to cheapie 21 inchers. I don't like the offset wheel idea of the Lawn Boy but I also didn't want to pay over $500 for a mower.