What do you charge?

[JClawncare]

I am just getting into landscaping one condo complex that I mow is wanting me to trim shrubs, mulch reseed, aerate and edge the beds. I have thought about charging $20.00 hr for mulching, seeding, aerating and charge $8.00 per shrub we trim. The edging I was just going to rent a bed edger then add the rental fee and the hours to edge in with the mulch. Any suggestions? or thoughts?

[Duekster]

$20 is very cheap. You relize as a self employed person the goverment takes close to an extra 8% from you.

Plus what if you get hurt? You need enough money to by some insurance.

[WALKER LANDSCAPE]

JC
$20.00 an hr for mulching is very low. What about the material is your price per man. We are up in the $100.00 range per man hr. Do some careful reading in some of the threads before you commit. My two cents.

[John Zaprala]

Another thing is I do all my estimating by time and material. Shrubs are all different sizes. One shrubs could 3 minutes to trim and one could take 30 seconds. So think of the whole job in terms of how long for the whole job not per shrub. And for mulch... we buy mulch at $17 cu. yd. here and charge $63 per yard in labor. If it was just labor I'd bid at $70 Hr. personally in my area that's the approx. rate. FYI be careful using a bed edger in a condo development. Cable companies don't always bury their lines to specs.

[jkingrph]

$20 is very cheap. You relize as a self employed person the goverment takes close to an extra 8% from you.

Plus what if you get hurt? You need enough money to by some insurance.

Thats total approx 16% for social security, plus income tax!!

[Duekster]

Thats total approx 16% for social security, plus income tax!!

I hope he knew about the other stuff.


I consider that it basically cost me $0.50 per $1.00 I pay. It is not that high but it is close enough to make the math simple and it is not too hard to explain to the employees. I have no problem telling them that I pay $0.50 on the Dollar in over head and taxes.

[Duekster]

JC
$20.00 an hr for mulching is very low. What about the material is your price per man. We are up in the $100.00 range per man hr. Do some careful reading in some of the threads before you commit. My two cents.

I would love to get that much but since we work year around we can charge 1/2 as much?

[RedWingsDet]

why work for so cheap when people will be willing to pay more?

We can get up to 80 an hour for mulch here. plus materials.

or charge per man hour + mat.

[John Zaprala]

We work year round in PA in mild seasons like this, but considering your expenses how can you make money at $20? Is gas really cheap by you or something? Overhead has to be covered on every job.

[RedWingsDet]

If someone is charging that low. How can they afford to pay taxes, insurance, fuel, workers comp, equipment, labor, phones, paper for billing, and have money left over for profit?

[willietd2]

hey, just curious. im charging $35.00 per man hr. and im making about $12.00on a yard of mulch, am i charging to little? dont want to be a "lowballer" but yet i still want to get the job. thanks, willie

[willietd2]

thats on res. i have not done com. mulching yet

[tthomass]

I'll sub you at $20/hr :).........and charge $50/hr for your time

Depending on area, $35 per man hour should be the cheapest ever........you're not just paying yourself, you're paying for insurance, gas, trucks, saving for more trucks and not to forget a new Z06.

[JClawncare]

A little background. All I have ever done is cut and go.
Been mowing the condos for 3 going on 4 yrs. The association really likes our work. They have asked me to start taking care of the landscape because the past people have not done a good job.

Zaprala:
I have one employee. at $10.00hr. for weed eating,pull weeds, etc....
The mulch is 3cu-ft. bag pine nuggets. around $3.00 per bag / $25.00 per yard mulch
I add the cost of material in with the labor.
Done hit a T.V. cable with it on another job.

I have a good mowing bus. but this landscape is new to me and is something I want to get into. Any good ideas about charging like a rule of thumb per bush or job or per mulch per bag? And finding out what my overhead would be for a landscaping job?

[tthomass]

Mulch.........charge by the yard. Actually, unless you are weeding etc, forget a hourly rate. Ready for some $ in your pocket? Here's how:

Say there is 2 of you and you can put down 3 yards of mulch in an hour at $35 cheap dollars per man hour. You just made a whopping $70 and honestly taking a step closer to putting yourself out of business....perhaps a little extreme but you get the point.

NOW, instead of that hourly rate......charge by the yard. You pay $20 per yard, charge at LEAST (please) $60 per yard. Say you're me, I get $90-$100 per yard:
For three yards thats $300 on the high
- my cost of $60
_____________
$240

Now, $240 > $70 correct? See what I'm getting at? Same with trees etc...........when it comes to installs FORGET an hourly rate or you'll be shooting yourself in the foot. Have an hourly rate for additional work......say blah blah blah happened and you have to remove blah blah blah to the landfill. Charge an hourly rate + disposal......a more true "time and material" situation

[willietd2]

I'll sub you at $20/hr :).........and charge $50/hr for your time

Depending on area, $35 per man hour should be the cheapest ever........you're not just paying yourself, you're paying for insurance, gas, trucks, saving for more trucks and not to forget a new Z06.

so your saying if i charge $70.00 to $90.00 per yard it will get me off your bad side? no seriously i see what your saying. thanks for the info, i will raise my pricing. i dont want to be the guy hurting our industry do to my prices. thanks again,willie

[tthomass]

Charge the 70-90, keep you current rate, send be the balance and we're both happy!

No bad side.......just offering advice.

[RedWingsDet]

This thread is getting to me, lol.
I still can not possibly fathom someone is willing to lay mulch down at $20 per yard. It really boggles me. I dont understand either how some people even charge $25 per man hour. I just dont see how some of these people are making money. They cant, or they NEVER want to retire.

[willietd2]

i know tthomass im just jokin about the bad side and yes i do thank you for the advice. thanks, willie

[JClawncare]

So really instead of $20 hr I need to start out at least $40hr for mulch in bags and $50 per yard of mulch which would keep me in the ball park without pricing me out of park. But what is a good idea when it come to trimming hedges or small shrubs. Also any good ideas on keeping pine nuggets on a slope? The condos only want nuggets used and I see a problem with them on some of the slopes.

Redwing: I don't want to low ball because I feel the same about people who mow and charge $20.00 a yard with no insurance ,etc... But I have to mow the same yard at twice as much. I'm asking pricing so I stay competitive without low balling and hurting the business.

[Big Bad Bob]

I am just getting into landscaping one condo complex that I mow is wanting me to trim shrubs, mulch reseed, aerate and edge the beds. I have thought about charging $20.00 hr for mulching, seeding, aerating and charge $8.00 per shrub we trim. The edging I was just going to rent a bed edger then add the rental fee and the hours to edge in with the mulch. Any suggestions? or thoughts?

i'm not meaning to insult you but i guess your tag line says it all. you need to charge a whole lot more than $20 per hour. if that was all i was getting, i'd just take a job in a factory or work for someone else and avoid the headaches of being self employed. after taxes, license, ins, gas and equipment you'll be lucky to clear 25% of that.
why work at such a low wage that you will hate what you are doing? strive to get rich. you probably won't but you'll be surprised at the quality of the customers you will have if you raise your rates. you'll get fewer jobs but they will be of higher quality and more profitable in the long run. just be sure you pay attention to detail and use the right equipment. a local rental dealer can help you with that. i have quite a good relationship with my rental dealer and he always gives me straight advice on which equipment is right for any one job.

[Big Bad Bob]

If someone is charging that low. How can they afford to pay taxes, insurance, fuel, workers comp, equipment, labor, phones, paper for billing, and have money left over for profit?

most likely isn't paying taxes, insurance, fuel, workers comp, equipment.

[Big Bad Bob]

Redwing: I don't want to low ball because I feel the same about people who mow and charge $20.00 a yard with no insurance ,etc... But I have to mow the same yard at twice as much. I'm asking pricing so I stay competitive without low balling and hurting the business.

that's what this site is all about. i have learned so much on here. what makes me mad is when someone (not you) asks a question, gets lots of common sense advice, along with one or two bits of clueless advice, and gets mad at the people giving common sense advice. there are some on here who would claim they are charging $20 per hour on jobs that most charge $60 and making it rich because of volume. i think those people are either lying or are delusional or both. always remember that some of the advice on here is regional and some may work for me while it won't work for you. i guess you just have to trust you judgement and always stay flexible.
good luck.

[DRM Ventures]

In most cases you can save alot by buying your mulch in bulk instead of bagged..... I charge $50-60 per yard installed......

How big is the complex????

[RICHIE K]

we charge $67.50 per yard for the labor only on mulch install jobs. We now get $105.00 per yard for mulch and labor

[JClawncare]

DRM: The complex has 52 unit some are doubles some are singles.
BBB: I pay all that you stated. But for mowing just starting in landscaping.That why I'm asking about figures. Because I don't know what the averages are so I don't low ball or work to cheap.

So what about pricing for trimming hedges or shrubs?

[Duekster]

we charge $67.50 per yard for the labor only on mulch install jobs. We now get $105.00 per yard for mulch and labor


That is not a bad price if they are getting multiple yards. I can get about 2 yards in a PU Bed and it cost about $32.00 for native mulch. So if I just charged on the price of the mulch at $105 per yard, I could loose money. Best case, 30 min to pick up mulch and another 30 to deliver. Another hour to spread. Based upon a 2 man crew plus the truck $105 would be about right but cutting it way too close. However, it is hard to say it will only take an hour to fetch the mulch.

[DRM Ventures]

can you estimate the number of yards your will need? And is there a place that a large truck load can be dumped???

Derek

I also charge $40 to pickup and deliver.....

[Duekster]

can you estimate the number of yards your will need? And is there a place that a large truck load can be dumped???

Derek

I also charge $40 to pickup and deliver.....


Exactly, if the job is big enough to have truck loads delivered and my crew is there bell to bell that is a different horse than Mrs Jones flower bed.

There is no price per mulch, every job is different.

[MarcSmith]

don't forget to mark up your rental rates....You have to go and pick up the machine and drop it back off....It all cost money.

Yes it sounds like we are nickle and diming the customer to death, but once you get a good pricing structure in place....and start generating profit, rather than just enough to pay the bills, it get easier.

Ten years ago I was billing close to 40 an hour in Florida....so the "working year round" doesn't hold much water....

[Duekster]

don't forget to mark up your rental rates....You have to go and pick up the machine and drop it back off....It all cost money.

Yes it sounds like we are nickle and diming the customer to death, but once you get a good pricing structure in place....and start generating profit, rather than just enough to pay the bills, it get easier.

Ten years ago I was billing close to 40 an hour in Florida....so the "working year round" doesn't hold much water....

I would love to charge more but I won't get much work if I do. No way I can get $ 80 or $100 per man hour in Texas. I have tried.

[MarcSmith]

Every market is different, heck sometimes every neighborhood is different.

You need to find a price that the market will bear. but you don't want to give away your time either.

Heck you can always call a couple landscapers posing as a customer to get an idea of what others are charging. Yes this is the "sleazy" (IMO) way to do business, but just about every industry prices off of one another...

[Duekster]

Every market is different, heck sometimes every neighborhood is different.

You need to find a price that the market will bear. but you don't want to give away your time either.

Heck you can always call a couple landscapers posing as a customer to get an idea of what others are charging. Yes this is the "sleazy" (IMO) way to do business, but just about every industry prices off of one another...

What I did was estimate what I had to pay the people and then added my labor burden. Most of my crews work in groups. I never send one guy and a truck.

Anyway, I came up with a figure per hour for an average size crew with the cost of the truck/trailer and EQ on it.

I started bidding work. I Talked to people to find out if I were hi or low. If high ( which is often ) I would examine the bid and see what I missed and why I was high.

If get the job, I look at it even closer.

[Big Bad Bob]

don't forget to mark up your rental rates....You have to go and pick up the machine and drop it back off....It all cost money.

Yes it sounds like we are nickle and diming the customer to death, but once you get a good pricing structure in place....and start generating profit, rather than just enough to pay the bills, it get easier.

Ten years ago I was billing close to 40 an hour in Florida....so the "working year round" doesn't hold much water....

and by "nickle and diming the customer" you ensure that you are around for years to come to provide those services.

[John Zaprala]

A little background. All I have ever done is cut and go.
Been mowing the condos for 3 going on 4 yrs. The association really likes our work. They have asked me to start taking care of the landscape because the past people have not done a good job.

Zaprala:
I have one employee. at $10.00hr. for weed eating,pull weeds, etc....
The mulch is 3cu-ft. bag pine nuggets. around $3.00 per bag / $25.00 per yard mulch
I add the cost of material in with the labor.
Done hit a T.V. cable with it on another job.

I have a good mowing bus. but this landscape is new to me and is something I want to get into. Any good ideas about charging like a rule of thumb per bush or job or per mulch per bag? And finding out what my overhead would be for a landscaping job?
When I look at a job, I think in my head how long will this take? And measure out the beds (after a while you can eye it up) to get your mulch quantities. For your purposes I'd say it's easier to have a rate for the mulch w/ installation. If you pay him $10/hr and your mulch is $25 yd. (BTW this is way high) I'd charge $70 installed per yard. I would also look into bulk prices. A condo development should be a decent amount of mulch and be discounted. Try and convince your customer pine nuggets are crap and to use all shreded mulch. Add up all your materials, add in the sales tax (which your paying, so they're paying), then I add the labor plus overhead. I charge $25/hr for labor, BUT in addition to that I add overhead BY THE HOUR. Overhead for every company varies, but I was told a good rule in 110% of your labor rate. So my overhead is $35/hr. I charge $70/hr for every hour of work. This covers my truck payments, insurance, gas, basically all expenses that you pay as a company whether you've got jobs or not. It sounds expensive, but that's b/c it is. Go in with price and you can always bring it down, but it hard to add on after the fact and you could lose your shirt on a bigger job if you short yourself.

[Duekster]

When I look at a job, I think in my head how long will this take? And measure out the beds (after a while you can eye it up) to get your mulch quantities. For your purposes I'd say it's easier to have a rate for the mulch w/ installation. If you pay him $10/hr and your mulch is $25 yd. (BTW this is way high) I'd charge $70 installed per yard. I would also look into bulk prices. A condo development should be a decent amount of mulch and be discounted. Try and convince your customer pine nuggets are crap and to use all shreded mulch. Add up all your materials, add in the sales tax (which your paying, so they're paying), then I add the labor plus overhead. I charge $25/hr for labor, BUT in addition to that I add overhead BY THE HOUR. Overhead for every company varies, but I was told a good rule in 110% of your labor rate. So my overhead is $35/hr. I charge $70/hr for every hour of work. This covers my truck payments, insurance, gas, basically all expenses that you pay as a company whether you've got jobs or not. It sounds expensive, but that's b/c it is. Go in with price and you can always bring it down, but it hard to add on after the fact and you could lose your shirt on a bigger job if you short yourself.These rules are what gets people in trouble.

You need to know what your over head and burden.

Suta / Futa
Workers comp
GL
Rent
Office staff.

The above vary by location and company.


Matching funds are pretty much the same everywhere.

[John Zaprala]

I don't go by 110% that's what they said at ICPI seminar. That typically it comes out to be 110%. We have a budget that is very precise to determine overhead. I do not handle the overhead cost, our accountant does. He adds it up divides by the year's labor hours and Viola!

[Duekster]

I don't go by 110% that's what they said at ICPI seminar. That typically it comes out to be 110%. We have a budget that is very precise to determine overhead. I do not handle the overhead cost, our accountant does. He adds it up divides by the year's labor hours and Viola!

Keep in mind the accountant is looking at last years cost. It is more accurate than pulling a number out of your hat but none the less it is old info.

I am interested in what you put in your labor rate before you add the over head.

[John Zaprala]

What do u mean by put in? I don't tax my labor if that's what ur asking

[RICHIE K]

That is not a bad price if they are getting multiple yards. I can get about 2 yards in a PU Bed and it cost about $32.00 for native mulch. So if I just charged on the price of the mulch at $105 per yard, I could loose money. Best case, 30 min to pick up mulch and another 30 to deliver. Another hour to spread. Based upon a 2 man crew plus the truck $105 would be about right but cutting it way too close. However, it is hard to say it will only take an hour to fetch the mulch.

Forgot to tell you I only pay $9.00 per yard for the mulch trip shreeded and in early spring we get 50 yards delivered to our yard so we load it when we need it:cool2: last season we went through 87 yards

[DRM Ventures]

$25 for a yard of double shredded mulch is a good price here.......

[John Zaprala]

Is that from a wholesaler? or retailer? Even if you don't have a yard to get bigger deliveries, some places will cut you a better deal if you promise to use a certain amount for the season.

[DRM Ventures]

That is retail.....I don't use enough to mess with bigger deliveries. I can get a brake if I buy/use 50 yards but I have never done that. It is no big deal to me because most places here it is $32 or more. The customer pays it. And customers don't know what I pay anyway, because they just get the job price......

I am a small solo op...... and my supplier is approximately 200 yards from my house/shop.....

D

[tthomass]

As you are spending more $ at suppliers you will gain power. You will still be low man on the pole but be nice, be friendly and make yourself stand out. Then you can come at them with something to the effect of "hey I get all my stuff here, ya'll are great..........is there anyway we can work on X% off?". Now you may not have the cash flow to really make them jump on that but that is where the "being friendly" comes in. They like you, they want to help you.

A rental company is a good example........here they charge me the same price as a computer nerd. BUT.......being friendly and spending a few thousand dollars.......I can get a better rate.

-on an off topic side note, this rental company doesn't open until 7:00am on Saturdays. I call at 6:15am and I get an answer.......by 8am I had a skid steer and 3 attachments delivered 30 miles away........again, be nice and service follows.......granted there is time in there for that but if I was, well a "dick" then I may not have seen that delivery before noon.

Also, call a big company and be a pretender. I've done it.......but don't call me, I don't give pricing over the phone :)

[JClawncare]

Thanks guys for the info. I realized that what I thought would be a good price is looooow. So I thinking of $8.00 per shrub I trim and start out $50 for mulching. To just get started and probably adjust later.

[JClawncare]

Forgot to ask what are some good reference books to read for landscaping ( choosing plants, arrangements, hedge trimming,etc...

[tthomass]

Go to a book store. There are lots of books. Look through the ones there and see which best presents the information you are looking for.