PDA

View Full Version : Air brakes.....why not smaller?


tthomass
01-09-2007, 09:47 PM
Why not have air brakes on say 4500/5500's or F450/F550 or even smaller trucks say 2500's/250's? Curious.

DUSTYCEDAR
01-09-2007, 10:08 PM
it takes some brains to use them and u need a cdl

LindblomRJ
01-09-2007, 10:53 PM
Yup. The may be fool proof but they are not idiot proof.

Special License. What about insurance?

Gravel Rat
01-09-2007, 11:21 PM
Size constraints is the biggest problem you look at the problem low pro trucks with 19.5 wheels with trying to make air brakes fit in a 19.5 diameter rim. The hydraulic disk brakes are pretty good for 1.5-2 ton trucks better than the old days with rear drum brakes and disk on the front the 4 wheeldisk stop better.

Air brakes should be standard issue on anything bigger than a 550-5500 sized truck like a 650-750 etc.

FosterLawnscaping
01-09-2007, 11:35 PM
You do not need a CDL in the good old USA to operate an air brake vehicle unless it is over 26000 lbs. Don't believe me? read the book. I've had my class A for a few years and thanks to the DOT man I know the rules. Don't say it takes brains to use them, I'm sure you've seen some of the idiots that drive semis. It takes brains to work on them and adjust them properly.

Air brakes have pros AND cons just like juice brakes. In my opinion more pros than cons ( I won't get into that, irrelavent).... BUT I simply don't think they are needed in a truck until you get into the cdl range. Properly functioning hydraulic brakes on a properly loaded truck will stop perfectly fine. The only reason for air brakes on a small truck would be so the driver could pretend he had a big truck.

Air brakes on a pickup would raise the sticker price significantly also. You'd need compressor, tanks, more guages fit into the dash, another knob or 2, another handle on the column, complete different setup at the wheels themselves and so on and so forth.

Just my 2 lucky pennies worth.

tthomass
01-10-2007, 12:05 AM
I just think it would be cool..............here's a real question:

My truck = 25,500 and trialer is 10,000...........GVW

Combined GVW + CDL but no trailer = CDL not needed.

Truck is tagged 35,500........do you still need a CDL to drive it without the trailer being behind it (remeber, the truck itself is 25,500).

PSDF350
01-10-2007, 07:50 AM
GVW over 26,000 you need CDL. I also beg to differ on the no CDL for air brakes.

FosterLawnscaping
01-10-2007, 01:08 PM
You need a cdl if it is tagged over 26000. However if all it will ever tow is a under 10,000 lb trailer you don't need to have combination plates and can leave the truck tagged at 25,500.

FosterLawnscaping
01-10-2007, 02:02 PM
If the vehicle is under 26,000 with air brakes you do not need air brake endorsement.
If the truck is over 26,000 with air brakes you need both a cdl and the air brake endorsement.

Stop in the next weigh station you go past and bother the DOT guys or give them a call if you don't believe me.

DBL
01-10-2007, 02:06 PM
If the vehicle is under 26,000 with air brakes you do not need air brake endorsement.
If the truck is over 26,000 with air brakes you need both a cdl and the air brake endorsement.

Stop in the next weigh station you go past and bother the DOT guys or give them a call if you don't believe me.

thank you ive been driving a tow truck with airbrakes for about a year now and i dont have a cdl and in many other threads i say i dont need one and no one believes me

Total.Lawn.Care
01-10-2007, 02:40 PM
thank you ive been driving a tow truck with airbrakes for about a year now and i dont have a cdl and in many other threads i say i dont need one and no one believes me

In GA, you do not get a CDL without taking the Air Brake written test and passing it. They call it the air brake endosement, but it is not listed with your other endorsements. Just that your driving record has to show that you have a passign score on that test.

Now, as far as Air Brakes and Needed an endorsement or a CDL to operate, I beleive it to be false, however, each state requireemnt can be different. I will give two examples of why I feel it if false.

Anyone with a Class C (non CDL, Non Airbrake license) can go to the Uhaul or Ryder Truck, etc. retal yard and rent a truck (GVWR under 26,000) that has airbrakes and drive it. This happens everyday and it perfectly legal.

Also, you can buy Motorcoaches that are under 26,000 GVWR that is equiped with Airbrakes and be legal to drive it with a Class C license.

To futher answer the question of "Why Not Airbrakes on say 4500/5500 or F450-550 trucks?

Like was already said, cost is a big part of it. You have to remember that there are practically two systems for the air brakes. One system hold the brakes on when there is a lack of air pressure and releases brakes when you apply air pressure. This is the "Parking Brake/Emergency Brake" System.

The other system applies the brakes (using increasing air pressure) as you apply pressure to the brake pedal. (Operating Brake System). This requires a great deal of sophisication and expense to install and properly maintain these systems.

To de-design this system to install these types of brakes inside a 15 or even 16-18 inch wheel along with all of the plumbing and tanks required for the air systems, it is just not practical for the capacities that these trucks are designed to tow/haul.

MarcSmith
01-10-2007, 03:17 PM
I just think it would be cool.

You're the kind of guy that puts the pipes sticking striaght out of the bed of the truck aren't ya....Figures teh little boy wan't to be a big man....J/K:walking:

TT if you remember TGLC purchased a couple f550's that were under the 26K and had air brakes, but no CDL was needed, unless you hooked up a trailer....

also, when Imoved from Fl to VA I got a Uhual truck that was over 26K and had air brakes....But since its not commercial and I wasn't driving for $$$$ I did not need a CDL.

you think all those old folks driving those Prevost Land Yatchs have CDL's,...

The biggets kicker for CDL is not just weight but the "for Profit" side of it.....

d&rlawncare
01-10-2007, 03:30 PM
it takes some brains to use them and u need a cdl

no CDL needed in MI for airbrakes!!!!!

Dirty Water
01-10-2007, 06:42 PM
WA state requires an Air Brake Endorsement, which you can only get if you acquire a Class C CDL, AND pass a Air Brake Test (Written, and driving test, plus demostration of how to they work and how to adjust them).

You can get a CDL without getting the Air Brake Endorsement, and they will place a restriction on your license.

I believe there are DOT minimums at a federal level, and then each state can tack more onto that if they want.

In WA, Recreational Vehicle drivers are exempt of CDL licenses because they are not being used Commercially.

tthomass
01-10-2007, 08:44 PM
haha, yeah I remember Kevin throwing me in one fo the trucks w/ trailer having never driven up here........"can you"......."sure" haha

I already have a Class A from when I was at Chapel Valley. How firm air brakes are vs hydro spoils you. I drove my Intl and then my Chevy......thats what made me go "well what if".

My Intl is 25,500......dump trailer is 10,000..........should I ever need to tow it behind the Intl I tagged it for 35,500.

Sooooo, that is why I'm asking...........without the trailer the truck is rated at 25,500 (under CDL but is tagged as a combo for 35,500). I do not know but assume so long as the trailer is not behind the truck a CDL is not required to drive the truck.

You're the kind of guy that puts the pipes sticking striaght out of the bed of the truck aren't ya....Figures teh little boy wan't to be a big man....J/K:walking:

TT if you remember TGLC purchased a couple f550's that were under the 26K and had air brakes, but no CDL was needed, unless you hooked up a trailer....

also, when Imoved from Fl to VA I got a Uhual truck that was over 26K and had air brakes....But since its not commercial and I wasn't driving for $$$$ I did not need a CDL.

you think all those old folks driving those Prevost Land Yatchs have CDL's,...

The biggets kicker for CDL is not just weight but the "for Profit" side of it.....

Albemarle Lawn
01-11-2007, 12:56 AM
You would just be paying more in registration every year.

And, even below your 35,000 you are still at risk of a ticket for being overloaded because your truck is only rated for 25,000.

Finally, you might even catch a charge of improper registration if you get a really grouchy DOT guy...they are out there, these guys have no life.

You don't need to have a truck registered at 35K if you have a 25K truck with a 35K trailer, the trailer registration covers the trailer weight.

Gravel Rat
01-11-2007, 01:58 AM
If the truck has 12,000lb front axle and 23,000lb rear axle you can tag the truck for 35,000lb gvw but if its got lighter axles what is the point.

For us in B.C. a single axle the rear axle can only gross 20,000lbs and the front axle 12,000lbs. A truck with a rear axle lighter than a 21,000lb is considered a 3 ton.

tthomass
01-11-2007, 02:11 PM
Truck is registered a combined weight of 35,400.........25,500 truck and 9,900 trailer.

The tow vehicle is under 26,001 lbs and the trailer is under 10,001 lbs and does not require a CDL even being tagged at 35,400. If the trailer is tagged over 10,001 lbs and the truck is at 25,500 I WILL need a CDL. Or if the truck itself goes over 26,001 lbs.

Straight from a inspector this morning.

Chop Stuff Up
01-11-2007, 02:46 PM
You do not need a CDL in the good old USA to operate an air brake vehicle unless it is over 26000 lbs. Don't believe me? read the book.

You do in Delaware.

d&rlawncare
01-11-2007, 03:25 PM
You would just be paying more in registration every year.

And, even below your 35,000 you are still at risk of a ticket for being overloaded because your truck is only rated for 25,000.

Finally, you might even catch a charge of improper registration if you get a really grouchy DOT guy...they are out there, these guys have no life.

You don't need to have a truck registered at 35K if you have a 25K truck with a 35K trailer, the trailer registration covers the trailer weight.

Thanks for the put down. I do have a life and a job. That job consists of keeping the roads safe. And by the way what your truck is rated for and what you register it to haul are two different things. You CAN NOT get a citation because you have exceeded the rating of the truck. That is put on there to protect ford or whoever. Thats what it was designed or made to haul.