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View Full Version : no more f550 now fl60 or int4700 for hooklift


minibin
01-13-2007, 02:25 PM
Well after too long I have finally ordered my AL90 12,500 pd hooklift, but I havn't decided what truck to go with. I have been looking in the 19,500 GVW to 26,000 GVW league. I considered the F550 (7.3) with a 19,500 but think I will be always be pushing to the limit. SO now I am looking at fl60 with a 3126CAT or International 4700 Dt466 >In the 26k GVW. I like the LOPRO version's of these for center of gravity and load angles

Do any of you have experience in these trucks one motor vs the other? When it comes to fuel/operating costs.

Any advice is appreciated.

Bret

Fordsuvparts
01-13-2007, 04:12 PM
The 4700 is a great truck, the low profile design makes it easy to load with a skid loader and easier to operate and dump on terrain with a slope to it. We have a 93 4700 dump, 2006 F-650 dump, 1999 F-800 Dump,99 and 2001 F-450 and a Isuzu NPR flatbed dump. We have the smaller engine in the 4700, that is the only thing i would change about it. It has been a great truck for the last 4 years and it still has a lot of life left in it. I say go with the 4700 series you wont be sorry.

tthomass
01-13-2007, 04:31 PM
DT466 is one of hte best engines ever built.

CAT's are throw away engines where as a DT466 is about $7,000 for a full rebuild.

What is your budget for a cab and chasis?

Depending on the truck you get you won't have to pay sales tax......instead you get hit for $425 every year for tags. Thats what happened to me in VA at least.

What did your hook lift cost and what all did you get?

Gravel Rat
01-13-2007, 04:42 PM
Before you decide on a truck better find out the hook height on the hooklift.

As for trucks are you buying used or new ?

I would stay away from the Frieghtliners I would consider a Sterling Acterrra over a Freightliner.

My top choice would be a T-300 Kenworth a good quality truck that will last you many many years.

Make sure any truck you look at has 21,000lb rear axle and 10,000 or 12,000lb front axle you can put low profile tires on the truck. Also make sure the truck has 10 bolt budd wheels if you plan on mounting a low profile tires.

If you are going new really consider looking at Hino.

As for engine wise the B series Cummins is too small for anything bigger than a 2 ton low pro. Just imagine climbing Boundary Road Hill in first gear and having one h*ll of a time trying to get restarted when your stopped at one of the lights.

minibin
01-13-2007, 10:04 PM
Fordsuvparts> Thanks for the info, I am starting to collect the threads from this site and a couple of others and most say the same about the 4700 and all say the Dt466 over the 444e .

Gravelrat> I know the hill and generally avoid it if possible. I am keeping the axles in mind because as soon as I started going from 19,500GVW to 26K GVw I am starting to think why not go to 31,000 GVW the motor and truck is the same so? As Gravelrat knows that in our area of Canada we can opperated a hydraulic breaks truck up to 31,000Pds before needing a CDL. So that brings up a good question>Why wouldn't I go for a 31,000 GVW 4700 Dt466. The ins isn't far off that of a 26k, the motor is the same? Any advice?

Any advice on the best transmition?

Keep in mind a couple of things> there will be three different drivers, no CDL's or air brake tickets.The driving would be mostly city and some hwy driving.
In regard to the hooklift I will put a Ampriroll Al90 12,500 Pds for bodies 12-14 (if its a 26K chassis) . If I went with a 31K chassis i would put a Ampriroll 100L which lifts 20K for bodies 16-18Ft.
. The lift will be installed by Brad @ Fort Fabrication In BC www.bctruckbody.com he's been very helpfull.
I have looked at the switch-n-go, stellar,K-pac, Hiab and many tradition roll-offs. The Ampriroll offers the most for my application. Which is moving around a Bobcat, delivering materials for bobcat work, junk clean-up and minibin rentals which is the new part of my business that I will work hard at growing. I started the new year out right by buying a good web site name for the bins. Look for it in February www.minibins.com I have done lots of homework on the hooklifts so if you have questions I will answer them hte best I can.(Remember I have never onwed one but have put the work into comparing them) Where I NEED THE ADVICES THE TRUCK?Motor?Tranny?Opeerating costs?

tthomass> I am paying 23K canadian for the AL90 12,500Pd lift and only a 2000 more for a 20K lift, i found a place in Washington that charges 16k for the Al90 installed.... and thanks the Dt466 does seem to review well!

I will be buying the cab & chasiss in the US probably Arizona or California, texas? the prices are much cheaper than here and better options for low Mile trucks.

tthomass
01-13-2007, 10:56 PM
For my '02 Intl 4300, DT-466, 6spd manual Fuller tranny, 128k miles......paid $24,100 cab and chasis.

tthomass
01-13-2007, 10:59 PM
So have you already ordered your 12,500lb lift? If that is what you're stuck with a 31,000lb truck won't do you any good because the lift is too small if you are looking to lift heavier loads for heavier trucks.

start2finish
01-13-2007, 11:04 PM
cat 3126 is not a throw away engine, but be careful. there are many variations of the 3126. Make sure the engine is rated at 250 min hp. if not you will be very limited on turning it up. we bought a used 7500 GMC and have been dissappointed after talking with cat about it. that engine is rated at hps up to 315hp. but the guts(iron) inside is different on the lower ratings.

tthomass
01-13-2007, 11:13 PM
The CAT's I was looking at were not sleeved where the DT-466 is. All CAT's may not be that way, I don't know.

Gravel Rat
01-13-2007, 11:20 PM
If you are going with a juice brake truck try get one with hydraulic disk brakes all 4 wheels they stop good.

I would also try find a L-7000 or L-8000 Ford they are a good truck they have good visability the trucks are easy to work on. If you find one with a 7.8 litre Ford and 6spd it would suit the needs you have for running around Vancouver.

If you can find a Kenworth T-300 that is a good choice aswell like this one

Gravel Rat
01-13-2007, 11:34 PM
This would be my first choice would be try find something like this one

minibin
01-13-2007, 11:46 PM
tthomass> I can switch to the al100, but I had to comitt a time spot in the shop he is booked 6-8weeks in advance. Do you know If I bought a 31k cab and chassis if i could derate it to under cdl for the transer to canada?

Gravel Rat
01-13-2007, 11:53 PM
Why do you want to derate the truck run it at 30,000lb gvw all you need to to is have the truck certified every year. You will have to get a National Safety number which you need for any truck over 5500kgs.

A truck like the yellow and black ford I posted anybody could drive with a regular class 5 license. If the truck has air brakes then you need to get a air endorsement on your license. To get a air brake endorsement is easy you go take a 16 hour course at North Shore Driving School in Burnaby then go to a ICBC outlet get it put on your license your done.

In B.C. any body that holds a regular drivers license can drive any 2 axle truck any gvw it can have a gvw of 35,000lbs you can drive it with a ordinary license you drive with. Once you go to a tandem axle truck then you need a class 3.

minibin
01-14-2007, 12:22 AM
the only reason I would derate is for the trip from the US (place of purchase) to BC. I would guess that I need a CDL to drive a 31k truck in some states to get it to the border.

I would'nt get a truck that requires any of the drivers to have air endorsements because its to hard to get workers that have "special skills" sometimes any "skills" If I was buying a truck to drive it would be a differn't purchase. I like the kenworths and ford but from what I am reading out there the dt466 are solid, go forever and easy to work on. They can also be hard to find with the rear window option.

My budget for the cab&chassis is 20k give or take a few.

Tranny opinions anyone?

Gravel Rat
01-14-2007, 02:49 AM
I forgot about that yes you would have to get a temporary permit for 25,000lbs.

Also remember importing a vehical from the US to Canada can be a real pain in the butt. Make sure you have all the paper work and other who haw done it might be easier to deal through a broker.

Once you get the truck back here it needs to go through a inspection and anything that doesn't meet Canadian standards must be done. You may have to replace the speedometer/odometer if the truck is new enough to have daytime running lights those must work. There are all kinds of little nagging stuff that needs to be changed but I can't think of them right now.

International is a decent truck but they do have some problems I know the older trucks have nightmare wiring. There are also parts on Internationals that you only can get from International.

To buy a truck from the US right now would have to be a really good deal with our CND dollar dropping in value. You have to factor in the extra costs getting the truck here the extra duty and taxes etc. Then you have to factor in the cost to make the truck meet B.C.s regulations.

As for transmission go with simple and cheap 6spd if you can find a 7spd even better. Stay away from Automatics and 5+2 gearing.

I looked into importing a truck from the US and by the time all the number crunching was done it wasn't cost effective.

I would look east bound in Alberta you can find decent deals the trucks are in a little better shape.

start2finish
01-14-2007, 10:46 AM
The CAT's I was looking at were not sleeved where the DT-466 is. All CAT's may not be that way, I don't know.

the engine your were looking at was probably the 3208. it is a V-8 engine and was/is popular in the 2 ton range you are looking at. it can be bored and sleeved at rebuild. that dt466 is supposadly the most inexpensive to overhaul. the 3126 is a six cylinder

paponte
01-14-2007, 11:19 AM
I would go with the max GVW I could go without going CDL IMO. I have a Frightliner with a 3126, and it has been a great truck for me. IMO it could have a little more balls, but I like to drive "productively" we'll say. I would agree that a 12.5 lift is too small for any truck your looking at unless your staying in the 20k range. My truck is an FL70 26k GVW and I believe I have a 18k lift on it. Some say overkill, but I wouldn't change it. IMO I go stick in any GVW 26k or better, more control. I believe this truck has a spicer in it.

minibin
01-14-2007, 01:21 PM
paponte > Thanks for your input?
How many horsepower in your fl 70?
What size bins do you find the most use full, any other bodies?
I would also agree that going a little overkill on the lift would be a good idea, in fact i am starting to think that a little extra on the truck and lift will be more benificial in the long run.
Does anybody think a dt466 in a 31k cab&chassis will have enough go?
paponte>what do you budget for maintenance & repairs?

Thx

Gavelrat> Do you or anyone know if I can infact derate a truck for the temporay tag to get me to the border EX: reducing a 31 or 33k down to 26k so I don't have to have a CDL to get it to the border?

Gravelrat> I will use a customs broker, I have checked the do not enter list and a broker will get it across for $200 and a $206 fee to customs. There is a good buck to save if I go to Texas or further east, once you breakdown all of the costs it's still a good deal but i will get more truck and lower miles.

minibin
01-14-2007, 01:22 PM
Anyone know the differnce between the 4700 international and the 4900? There seems to be the same equipment on various versions of these?

start2finish
01-14-2007, 01:35 PM
should be a difference in GWR similar to F-750 and F-850, FL 60 and FL70 and so on

nac
01-14-2007, 03:58 PM
I know a couple people here in in NJ who have 33,000 GVW truck derated to 25,999 GVW to avoid CDL. My truck is a Frieghtliner FL70 33,000 GVW with an Amprioll 100S (20,000 LB Cap.)I run 14' containers the truck with a 14' container wieghs about 17,000 empty giving me a 16,000 load capicity. 16,000 capicity and 3,000 container= 19,000 so 20,000 hoist is perfect for my application. But for a future singla axle I will go with a heavy truck and hoist combo.

minibin
01-14-2007, 04:07 PM
Nac> Thanks! I have seen your truck i previous posts> Nice.
Do you ever have probs with the 14ft bin being overloaded for the lift or truck? I have considered the 100s as well but if I go with the 100L i can move around my 20ft iso container to sites that need it. Nac have you had your truck long enough to have projected repair & maintenance figures?

nac
01-14-2007, 04:28 PM
There have been a few times I have been overloaded sometimes it is not always that it is overloaded but where the weight is in the box it has to be well balanced and not all up front toward the hook. Also make sure you get a 54" hook not 36" i have had my truck for about 1 1/2 just basic maintenance and had a crank sensor go bad and did not want to start. My tuck only had under 80,000 miles on it when i bought now i am up to 110,000 +. My has 230 HP and a 6 speed it is not bad a little slow going up the hills but overall I cant complain. I have had dropped 20 CY boxes up while doing demo and had someone put 15 tons in my truck could not budge it called my friend with a roll off and he dumped it for me. I have been ordering my hook lift box's as combos 54" hook and a pull plate for a roll off also.

Gravel Rat
01-14-2007, 05:40 PM
Have you considered having the truck shipped to somewhere closer say Oregon etc. If you found a truck deep in Texas you could have it trucked to Portland. It will save thousands of miles added to the truck it will probably save you 400-500 in fuel it will save you another 300 or so in temporary insurance.

As for trucks aslong as the truck has 21,000lb and 10 or 12,000lb front axle it will be good enough for what your needs.

I personally would stay away from the FL series Freightliners anybody I know that has them here hate them. The cabs are rattly things are cheaply made and I think you will have a tough time finding a FL70 with ISC Cummins power most of them have 5.9 ISB power not enough guts for our hills.

Driving cross the Patullo bridge would shake the Freightliners cab right off the chassis :laugh:

As for the CDL thing Mini Bin DOESN'T NEED one any body with a regular driver license can drive a 35,000lb truck.

I wouldn't get a truck with too light of a gvw you need that full 33,000-35,000lbs for a single axle. Also single axles are horrible for braking power my self I would go with air brakes I think you are going to hate the juice brake trucks. A juice brake truck never will hold itself on a hill the emergency brake is so feeble.

I know when the highways dept had International 5 tons with juice brakes you had to put both feet on the brake pedal and the emergency brake on to stop on a hill with a load. One of the gravel pits bought a 4300 International with juice brakes its a automatic thou the truck doesn't stop very well the truck is loaded to max gvw 33,000lbs.

I sure hate to be driving around Vancouver with the other loonies on the road when they start cutting you off and cutting in front of you and your driving a juice brake 5 ton truck :eek:

Good Luck

minibin
01-14-2007, 07:19 PM
Nac, what do you think about the brakes! I just know unless i am driving having drivers with Cdl or airbrake tickets will be not worth the headache. I think the truck will be very rarley loaded to the max and if so going straight to the transfer station.
Smart idea about making the bins for a roll-off as well i have spoken to our builder and it's not much more in the scheme of things. I will be building a couple of bins that nest one inside the other to make some of the longer dropp-offs more efficient. Do you rent your bins? If so what sizes do you think are in the most demand?

Gravel Rat
01-14-2007, 08:08 PM
If your employees are long term I would get them to get their air brake endorsement. Air brakes will be worth it in the long run especially when it comes to repairs. Juice brakes are not cheap to repair your constantly fighting with rusted out brake lines or blown brake lines. Your drivers will demand air brakes you will be hard pressed to find a driver that will drive a truck without air brakes. The first time your driving a loaded truck and some moron cuts you off and you have to do a panic stop and you can't stop and you end up rear ending the car you will wish you had air brakes.

The air brake course at North Shore Driving school in Burnaby is 160 dollars.

Personally I wouldn't want guys with no truck driving experience driving my trucks if they can only operate trucks with juice brakes nowwadays means they are green horns.

paponte
01-14-2007, 08:36 PM
Honestly I don't see what the big deal is with the CDL... JUST GET ONE!! I am 26k, but I have air. The cab and seat are also air. If I didn't have them I think yes it would be a very shaky ride. Honestly, I think that would be the case in any truck. If you think you will have the need to have a heavy gvw just get the license.

As far as lifting and the lifts go, I have had my front tires a good 2' off the ground and the lift still picked the box.

nac, whats your take on differences from the 36 to the 54? Also what plates are you talking about to pick rolloffs as well? Thanks.

Gravel Rat
01-14-2007, 09:56 PM
When I was running conventional hoist truck the front end used to dance up and down pulling on a heavy box. The worst feeling is the box starting to tip over because it doesn't want to pull up the rails straight. Had to really watch that it was sliding up the rails properly.

I never had a chance to use a hooklift all I drove was tandem axle rolloff with conventional rails.

nac
01-14-2007, 10:35 PM
My is airbake and I also had A Pacbrake exaust brake put on my truck well worth the money. I find 20CY to be used most often for small cleanup a bathroom or kitchen remodel also for place where a 30CY 22' box wont fit. I have 14' 8CY, 14' 11CY, 14' 18CY, 14' 20CY, 20' 18CY and 22' 30CY box's I will add 14' 15CY and 22' 40CY in the near future.

Gravel Rat
01-14-2007, 11:32 PM
I think you will be so busy with your tandem axle conventional rolloff truck you will be looking at buying another one.