PDA

View Full Version : Removing Crankshaft drive insert


rockytopp
01-13-2007, 10:47 PM
Ok Gang, I have a Kohler Model CH20 S --Ser.#2322214627 --Spec #64517

This engine has a splined plug in the end of the crankshaft, it has small pin's (one on each side) that are drilled so as the pin lock's the center drive plug to the crank, It is as though they installed the plug and drilled on the meeting of the crank and plug so that the plug gets half of each one, A very good idea to keep it from coming loose but how do you get it out. I want to remove the plug, then machine another that is just smooth and step it down to 3/4 inch so that a gear,pulley and or coupling can be installed on it. As it is there is not any way such a conversion can be applied. If any one has removed one of these plugs I would like to know the secret. there is not enough clearance going through the splined hole as its only a half inch splined hole or perhaps a shade larger not over five eights in diameter. Originally it drove a hydraulic pump, I intend to use it for the same thing but need an out put shaft rather than the splined insert. Thanks for any and all help or suggestions. Paul

fixer67
01-14-2007, 12:41 AM
You need to post a photo of this and tell us what machine the engine is on or was on. I checked the numbers you posted and do not see anything like that. It may not be a Kohler thing but something the OEM of the machine it goes on did to it after they got it.

khouse
01-14-2007, 10:45 AM
Sounds like a roll pin to me. A picture would be better. Can you just drive the pin out?

rockytopp
01-14-2007, 02:06 PM
Ok, here is the pics. as you will see it is kohler, as to the application before I purchased the engine, unknown, it was on some type of hydraulic equipment. It is a twenty HP. and I would like to be able to insert another machine made shaft that will accept a coupling. thanks for the help, sorry I did not put pics in first post. Paul


http://www.boomspeed.com/rockytopp/pinInInsert.jpg
http://www.boomspeed.com/rockytopp/kohler.jpg
http://www.boomspeed.com/rockytopp/crankinsert.jpg
http://www.boomspeed.com/rockytopp/Idtag.jpg

MowerMedic77
01-14-2007, 02:41 PM
According to the spec it came out of something like this http://www.struckcorp.com/

That crank is probably made special for that application and you may not be able to remove it. I may be wrong but you might have to replace the crank, maybe try calling Kohler and talk with someone in the tech. department.

fixer67
01-14-2007, 04:51 PM
According to the spec it came out of something like this http://www.struckcorp.com/

That crank is probably made special for that application and you may not be able to remove it. I may be wrong but you might have to replace the crank, maybe try calling Kohler and talk with someone in the tech. department.

That was what I was thinking from the start. That crank list for $200 by the way. Check with the makers of the machine it came off of and see what they say if calling Kohler does not help

thecrankshaft
01-15-2007, 11:58 AM
This is a 9 tooth spline, have you been greasing the splines? How many hours on it? It is recommended to regrease the splines at around 500 hours I believe.

9-Tooth Spline Replacement Kit PN 82 755 02-S SLP $62.57

rockytopp
01-15-2007, 02:56 PM
Wow!
what a life saver. thank you (Thecrankshaft) for your information, I can now proceed with my project. I do hope I can do the same for you or pass some other knowledge on to some one else that is in need. This is truly what this site is all about. I have printed it out and it will become a permanent page in my shop book of fix its. Again I wish to thank you....Paul.

pugs
01-15-2007, 03:01 PM
Yah, you would need to figure out what crank you would want in there and order a whole crank. There is nothing there for you to have turned down and you would need to pull the crank out to do that anyway.

thecrankshaft
01-15-2007, 06:29 PM
Figured I'd post the other spline kits right away to help others in the future. Kohler crankshaft spline replacement kits are as follows and come with instructions:

9 tooth PN 82 755 02-S
11 tooth PN 25 755 27-S
13 tooth PN 48 755 21-S

Glad to help!

fixer67
01-15-2007, 08:05 PM
This is a 9 tooth spline, have you been greasing the splines? How many hours on it? It is recommended to regrease the splines at around 500 hours I believe.

9-Tooth Spline Replacement Kit PN 82 755 02-S SLP $62.57

That is the first time I have seen that setup and replacing that spline looks fun:cry:
Hope I never see one face to face.

fixer67
01-15-2007, 08:10 PM
thecrankshaft

Let me ask you something about starters. We have a K482 engine that needs parts. Now I know there is a "cheat" sheet for this starters showing that if the starter was made by United Technologies you use this set of parts and if it was made by American Bosch you ues this set of parts. The problem is I can not remember where I see that cheat sheet at. I can not find it any where. I went though all the PBs and SBs at work and can not find it again. HELP!!

rockytopp
01-15-2007, 10:49 PM
I have one more question since the replacement inserts are available. Where would one find the stub shafts to fit the inserts, or are they not in demand or available, and depend on pumps, or drive units to have that end of the drive to slide into the insert. Just a thought. I Kohler has a kit that goes on the other end of the crank to be able to put a pully or gear on but then it turns in the oppisit direction unless you do some fancy rearangement of the motor position.
Thanks.

thecrankshaft
01-16-2007, 09:27 AM
fixer67,

The best and only true way to find parts for the starter is by finding the part number on the starter, which is on a sticker that can definitely wear or fall off over time.

However, for K482 engines the only two starters used were A-277214 and 48 098 02 (supersedes to 48 098 04).

If you have the part number and the spec/serial number of the engine, I'll see what I can come up with.

While I do not know what bulletin you are referring to, there is a section in the K301 parts manual with a crossover from the United Technologies and Bosch starters. There were tons of starters for the K-series single cylinder engines.

Send me a PM or reply back to this thread.

thecrankshaft
01-16-2007, 09:33 AM
I have one more question since the replacement inserts are available. Where would one find the stub shafts to fit the inserts, or are they not in demand or available, and depend on pumps, or drive units to have that end of the drive to slide into the insert. Just a thought. I Kohler has a kit that goes on the other end of the crank to be able to put a pully or gear on but then it turns in the oppisit direction unless you do some fancy rearangement of the motor position.
Thanks.

If I am understanding you correctly, you are looking for the part that engages with the splines. I have never seen Kohler offer this part. The splines are pretty basic for different style pumps, and are usually a part of the pump itself.

Otherwise, the stub shaft on the PTO side is part of the crankshaft, as you probably already know. You would need to buy a new crankshaft, in which case it already has the splines in it.

Stub shafts and other Kohler accessories: http://www.kohlerengines.com/common/resources/E_1953_J_Accessories_Catalog.pdf

rockytopp
01-17-2007, 12:28 AM
thanks again to "thecrankshaft". ... Ok here is what I am going to end up with. after removel of the splined insert. I am off to the machine shop and lathe. I will build a stub shaft and drill for the lock pin's as the insert was only it will be a solid shaft,. when I clear the crank I will drop down to either a one inch or three quarter inch diameter, then to the mill and cut a keyway . I can now put a love joy coupler on it and hook it up to my hydraulic pump shaft on my skidsteer and be back in workable shape. having converted from a wisconsin vh4d to a modern air cooled power plant. by doing this I will have saved a couple thousand bucks ... and have a working machine with an engine that parts can be bought for at a decent price.

treeguy27
03-22-2014, 02:01 PM
I know this is an old thread but I need some help with this exact problem. I have a mini-skid steer with a Kohler CH23s that has the 9 splined insert in the crankshaft that connects to a hydraulic pump. Both sides of the splined coupler have failed. I found the inserts for the Kohler, but the instructions posted here show removal of the crankshaft to replace the insert. Can this be done without removing the crankshaft? The instructions say to weld a nut on the end of the insert to remove it. I'm assuming this cant really be done with the crankshaft still installed without major damage? Any other way to remove the insert without welding the nut on? If so can the original roll pin holes be re-used? Drilling new ones while still on the engine would be tough if not impossible.

I'm already going to have to replace the pump shaft, possibly the whole pump if parts can't be found, I really don't want to have to tear down the engine as well just to replace this coupler. I may consider just replacing the engine if it must be torn down completely. The engine has unknown hours on it so I may be willing to risk some damage trying to fix this if replacement may happen anyway. Anyone have any thoughts or advice.
I'm hesitant to put a couple of grand into a machine that I only paid a little more than that for.

BigFish
03-22-2014, 03:42 PM
I've never messed with one, BUT, if I had to fix one I'd leave the crank in the motor. Maybe pull the seal, then weld on the nut, etc. As the instructions say, the insert is way harder than the crank, so drilling the insert fer new pins aint likely without the jig. I would try notching the new insert to accept the locking pins. Then install the insert and drill the crank using the notches as a guide. They should drill out good enough to grip the pins.
Or you may be able to put a couple setscrews in the side of the crank to bear on a couple of notches that you would have to grind in the OD of the splined insert. The idea is to stop the splined insert from rotating.
Have fun!

treeguy27
03-24-2014, 11:33 AM
Thanks for the tips. Doing some Google searching a found a guy who successfully did the same repair with the crank still in. Apparently drilled the pins by hand with no troubles. I'll give it a go and hope for the best.