BID ON 35 ACRES

[MTS Services]

I am new here, from Utah. I have the oportunity to bid on a 35 acre job. It has to be mowed twice a week and is fairly open. The buildings, trees, and any structure in the turf area are to be trimmmed once a week. The sprinkler system has to be checked and adjusted weekly. And last there is about 3/4 of a mile of pavent that has to be edged 3 times per season. Any and all replies are appreciated.<br> Thanks, <br> Matt

[southside]

What sort of gear do you plan to mow this site with? The 3/4 mile of edging done 3 times a year shouldn't take more than 1-1.5<br>hours.What sort of finish is required?<br>A job that size I would look at a Toro<br>455D or 580D,unless you have a lot of spare time.Either that or a tractor pulling a 12'<br>mower.The easiest way to price the big mowing<br>jobs is to break the total area into smaller<br>sub-areas and then work out your times for<br>each sub-area then add them all up.<br>Good luck.<p>Karl

[John DiMartino]

Be careful,the all your eggs in one basket comes to mind here.You buy a Toro 580D(big$$$)and 2years later you lose the account,you still have 2 or 3 years of payments and a machine with a very limited market to sell.Just a thought,or get a 3-5 year contract.I maintain a 100 acre golf course,and the little stuff you guys use is way to small.I run 2 15ft reel mowers and a 60&quot;steiner 420 to trim,a 10ft reel for rough,a 7ft reel for steep hillsides,and 5 61&quot; greens triplexes for tees,greens and approaches.I dont know the finish required,but you could buy an older Jacobsen F10 turf tractor with a 15 ft cut,set height and itll cut 60-70 acres a day,I could get one her for 4000-7000 in nice shape,put a grand into it to paint it and little stuff.These things are bulletproof,I have over 6000 hours on one of mine,its never been apart,no leaks,runs like new yet.The cutting units are bulletproof too,once a year lubrication,and backlap and your set.Downside,they weigh about 6500lbs,so you have to leave it on site(if allowed).These things will leave a finish a rotary could only dream of.<p>----------<br>John D<br>

[grasskutter]

John D, what happenes when he wants the reels sharpened, not many people or companies have the machines to sharpen these, I do it on the side/winter work but its a little expensive for most people, i do mostly golf courses. Backlapping will only go so far.Got most of my equipment used from golf courses that want to sub it out.<p>----------<br>grasskutter@cs.com<br>

[MTS Services]

Thanks for all your insight. But I was thinking of using 2 60&quot; ztr's. Do you think I would be able to cut all the turf, do about 1.5 miles of trimming in one full day with 3 workers including my self.<br> Thanks,<br> Matt

[nlminc]

Matt, I won a bid that requires about 28 acres of mowing. I was going to buy one of those Toro 455's , but at $35-$40,000 plus the weight and transport of the mower caused me to look into another alternative. I have this contract for 3 years and allowed for $50,000.00 for the tractor and trailer (because I could not keep it on site). With the advice from Eric, the Dixie Chopper guy on this site, I bought 2 72&quot; 26hp Diesel Dixie Choppers that will get the job done in the same amount of time or less, and I will have 2 tractors that I can use for other smaller properties. The Toro would have been just site specific. I now have spent a total of 30,000 and have 2 dixies and an enclosed 20X8 landscape trailer to haul them around. I save $20,000.00 and have a more versatile set up. The choppers will also pull aerators and spreaders. I spoke with a landscaper at a trade show in RI last week and he mowes a field that is 2 softball fields and a soccoer field in 1 hour and 10 min. with his Dixie Chopper. Hope this helps.

[MTS Services]

nlminc thanks for your input. I was thinking the same thing about using the zrt's on other smaller jobs. That would cut the time in half at the small jobs also. How long does it take you to cut the 28 acre job you have?

[steveair]

Hey, I like the idea of the 580D. I been trying to buy one for the airport, and if I could get a good price from you in a few years, I'll make you an offer on it.

[steveair]

Ok, just kidding.<p>But I'd listen to the comment of putting all your eggs in one basket. This could easily ruin you if something goes astray. If you never have done anything close to this, then I would give it some SERIOUS thought. If you are asking this question because you seriously don't know about how to approach the matter, then I would say don't chance it.<p>I'd wait a few more years, and work up to an account like this, at least wait till you get some financial backing to back up a fall if it happens, and also wait to get some more experience so that you know what you'll need instead of guessing.<p>As for that 580, it looks like a great machine, but what if it breaks down. That thing has like 8 blades on it as i recall, looks like a mechanics nightmare. Are you gonnna be able to fix it right away? And what if you can't? If you fall behind on a job like that, even for a week, it could lead to a real downfall. We have a full time mechanic, so if stuff breaks we can get it fixed on the spot or a matter of days. Its a luxury that a lot of people don't have, so I'd be thinking about back up plans also if you seriously are going to do it.<p>This is the kind of account that could make you or break you. And from my experiences, the break part happens more often if you aren't fully prepared. Then, again, it sure is tempting $$$<p>steveair<br>

[steveair]

One more thing is with the sprinkers. Do you know somebody to do the work on them, or are you a irrigation contractor also. If not, could cost a lot to sub it out, which will have to be done anyways for major repairs. If you have knowledge of them, you could service them yourself, but even that is tricky sometimes because you are supposed to be certified, at least in my area, to even touch them. To become certified is very difficult. A lot worse than getting a pesticide license. By me, you have to have 5 years experience just to be able to take the test. I'd do some investigating on the irrigation also if you are serious about it.<br>

[Lazer]

If you cut it twice a week, you'll not have to cross-cut or blow lawn clippings.<p>Yes, you can do it in 1 day w/ 2 60&quot;. if it is a wide open as you say.<p>Sounds like $1,000 twice a week.

[lawrence stone]

Lazer wrote:<p>&gt;Sounds like $1,000 twice a week. <br> <br>Or $35.71 an acre. That job will go for about<br>$25/acre or about $700. Lots of people will<br>be bidding on a job that size.

[nlminc]

I wouldn't bid less than $85.00/acre. $25.00 is crazy.

[Lazer]

Stone:<br>I agree in priciple. Your numbers don't add, though. It's a 35 acre site. 1000/35=28.57. I hope it isn't done much cheaper than that. <br>

[steveair]

I have a question on the twice a week. Do they want it mowed on set days, or do they just want it mowed in cycles, like every 5 days, etc. If they want it mowed every mon. and friday, then do you have the flexibility with other customers to give up those key days. I know a lot of people who want their lawns looking good on the weekend, so can you still fit them in. And if it does take a day and a half instead of a day, thats 3 days a week you are there. Doesn't leave you much room for other accounts, especially if thats the only crew you have. I'd find out what days they would want it mowed. To me, that would be important when considering the scheduling. <p>PS - $35 - 85 an acre? Quite some difference there.... I love hearing about how people charge. Very intrigueing.

[MTS Services]

Once again thanks for all the help. As for the sprinkler question, I did check with my state licensing division and you only need to be licensed to install new systems or replace stop and waste valves. As for price I was thinking in the lines of $24.00 per acre for mowing edgeing and trimming for a total of $840.00 per mowing. The sprinkler system check and repair etc. I was thinking $75.00 a week and for the edging along the pavement 3 times per season $300.00. For a total of approx. 1775.00 per week. Let me know what you think about this.<br>Thanks, <br>Matt

[lawrence stone]

MTS wrote:<p>&gt; As for price I was thinking in the lines of $24.00 per acre for mowing edgeing and trimming for a total of $840.00 per mowing. <p>I still hold firm to my price of $700.<br>It can't see where this job could be more<br>than 20 man hours. $700 by 20 man hours is<br>$35 per man hour. Big jobs bring people out<br>of the woodwork. Bid to get the job.

[nlminc]

Matt, I have to disagree. I won my bid for a 28 acre site going in at $75-85/acre. It's 2 sites that are very close to eachother, slightly different mowing schedules. Lets say you buy the big mowers 455D $40K or 580D $60K, are you going to charge $35 and hour for that machine and an employee? Even with 2 very good ztrs 3 men 2 riding and 1 trimming / 8 hrs for $840.00 is low. Make sure you figure in all your costs and leave room for the fudge factor (you know, employee doesn't show, equipment breakdown, weather...). Lawrence said that everyone is eager to bid on these large jobs. The contract I won was only bid on by 5 companies. Most companies in our field are small and do not want to chance these job's. At least in my area they are. Also try and secure that contract for 3 years.

[bubenberg]

put one or two of them behind yor regular mower. then mowe from 115 to 170 at the rate your zeroturn can go.
you will get done for far less than any of those large and costly machines mentioned above. have used them for two years and saved alot of money in labor and fuel cost let alone your tired back.

[cclllc]

Originally posted by lawrence stone
MTS wrote:<p>&gt; As for price I was thinking in the lines of $24.00 per acre for mowing edgeing and trimming for a total of $840.00 per mowing. <p>I still hold firm to my price of $700.<br>It can't see where this job could be more<br>than 20 man hours. $700 by 20 man hours is<br>$35 per man hour. Big jobs bring people out<br>of the woodwork. Bid to get the job.


2 guys on either 60 's or 72 in. dixie choppers should knock that out in 10-12 hrs. max.Charge atleast 30.00 per acre.I don't aggree with Mr. Stone's idea of bidding just to get the job. Make it worth your time.however he is right on the price.:)


[Edited by cclllc on 01-06-2001 at 06:45 PM]

[Eric ELM]

Since this is being mowed twice a week, you could mow that in 10 man hours with a 60" Dixie Chopper, so with 2 of them you knock it down to 5 hours and finish the day off with a few smaller lawns. A third person could be trimming and checking the sprinkler system. I can't see you having more than 15 man hours in this each mow with the right equipment. Price per acre, what ever your market will let you get away with. All areas are different.

[HOMER]

I'm curious as to what type of property this is. Do they irrigate all 35 acres? Is this a hospital or something? What kind of grass are you cutting.

I have taken my 2 Choppers and cut a 10 acre site in less than 2 hours. The grass I was cutting was tall and wirey(bahiai), and the ground was rough so we couldn't run wide open all the time. Two 72" machines will get this done with time to spare for the extras. I wish folks around here were willing to spend that kind of money on their property.

I don't know how any body can charge $85.00 an acre! Thats the most I've heard of yet.............your dropping the gate one time................your not moving til it's done..........your not paying help to ride from site to site, bid what your gut tells you and good luck. If you can make more staying there all day than you can chasing 30-35 dollar yards more power to ya!

I still want to know what it is!

[Eric ELM]

I agree Homer, I would like to know where this land is too. If it's a residential, it's a big lawn. :)

At $85 an acre, this would be $2,975 a cut times 2 cuts per week, $4,850 a week. I could work just this job and make a living.

[HOMER]

I think we could both live off that, sure save a lot of running around!

[TLS]

If its condos or an office park with lots of trees and trimming, who knows what to bid. You have to look at it. I have many a caller asking "How much to mow my 3/4 acre lawn?" I say, "$40 to $75 depending on blah, blah, blah".

Terrain has everything to do about bidding this property. Hills, cars, blowing off lots, trees, beds, type of grass, SMOOTHNESS OF GROUND <---Big one... among other things. Unless its all open ground, stick with a 72" ZTR (or two) keep the big units on the BIG 50+ acre open sites.

Good Luck

[Eric ELM]

Maybe we could become partners Homer. :D

[HOMER]

Might work Eric..........as long as you don't mind taking orders from a younger guy!;)

[kutnkru]

I think its time to go to work for eric n homer and start riding instead of walkin so much LOL!!!

[HOMER]

Sounds like we may need to go to work for you, you pay pretty darn good. I got kin folk up thar in New Yawk, wheres the upper tier? woops, southern tier?

[kutnkru]

Syracuse ... er um

Syrakous LOL

[kutnkru]

Hope you like corn bread and corn grits too. It seems to be the new staple in our diets after NC this season.

And to think all we had growing up was cream of wheat. MAN did we MISS OUT!!!!!

[jay]

Why do they need irrigation adjusted each week at my sites I go through the complete set up about three to four times a year? If I see a dry spot while I'm working I just consentrate on that particular zone. Once aweek to adjust entire system seems alot to me. Do all you guys do acres for only about 30-35 dollars? Down here a flat acre lawn to edge, mow, trim perimeter, and blow would go for about 55-60. Would take me bymyself with a 21" walkbehind mower about 1hr 40-50min.

[little green guy]

you missed your oppertunity on the 580d, Basking Ridge Towenship auctioned one off last month for 7,500.00. It was in pretty good shape too believe it or not, It was only a few years old.

[HOMER]

Kutnkru, have you ever heard of Ames, Canojaharie, Palentine Bridge, Glenns Falls, Hudson Falls.

[moonarrow]

hey Eric and Homer I want in on some of this gravy and the heck with the meat

[kutnkru]

Yes

[DanG]

Homer,
Most of those places are near me.Glenns Falls is about an hour up the road from me.

I bid and got a large 35 + acres area last year and figured it out to between 24.00 and 28.00 an acre.

Ended up taking me longer than I thought it would.

Takes me and two guys a full day to mow and trim it(10-12hrs).
Two people using mowers (72" toro Z-master& 52" Z-master) and one trimming,using 44"walk behind,21"hand mower & and using blower where needed.

This area has two ponds and lots of trees and other things that need to be trimmed which is why it takes longer..

If I decided to do it again this year the price will go up thou... was thinking of around 30-35 an acre.

Dan

[SLC1]

We currently take care of large sites, smallest 10 acres largest 40+acres and I personally think your best bet is a large area mower would be the best bet. We run a Hustler Range wing 4500 with a 12' cut. It would be better in the long run to do that account with a larger mower than to try and do it with two smaller mowers. The amount of grass that you can cut with a larger mower is amazing and it reduces man power. You could probably get away sending one guy out to that site to do it all by himself if you had a large mower. And you could find used units in good condition fairly easy we found our unit for less than $20,000 and it was in excellent condition. Plus by having the big machine it puts you into a niche market so you could go after the larger sites, thats what we did we landed one large account and did it one year with 60" and 72" machines the next year we went out and bought the 12' mower and now go after all large sites and focus on selling large properties. Just My two cents

[Vibe Ray]

Have any of yo guys noticed the date of the first post of this thread? I don't think we can help him on this bid anymore!

[Vibe Ray]

Have any of you guys noticed the date of the first post of this thread? I don't think we can help him on this bid anymore!

[LAWNGODFATHER]

Moingwithhustler's should look at this thread and not the non-exsistant toppless sunbather.

Same amount of turf too.

[bubenberg]

where were you all these years!?!?!?!?!?!?!

[Doc Pete]

Originally posted by HOMER

I don't know how any body can charge $85.00 an acre! Thats the most I've heard of yet.............


That is a tad high, but at $35 per half acre, and having 3 of these in one spot, that's about what you can do with "small lawns". I love'm. Furthermore, I'm using a $5,000 machine and not a $10,000 machine 72" inch monster, and gas to propel it..............And, that's what a hate about big lawns. If the bottom line is "take home" pay per hour, there's much to be said for the smaller lawns.
Pete