cutting in a walking trail...

[mcclureandson]

I have a landscape install company - mostly plantings/sod/irrigation/hardscapes etc...don't have much experience with rough grading or excavation. I have two developments underway with planned walking trails cut through gently sloped, wooded terrain. Trails run about 3000 linear feet and when finished would be approx 4-5' wide. Trails run with contours of existing slopes and no large tree removal would be required. Possibly would need to create some rolling dips for erosion control on any downhill straigt runs. Also could possibly need one or two 12" culverts installed w/rip-rap. After cutting in trail I'd need to distribute and spread crushed stone base for compaction - base would need to get compacted down to 3-4". I'm thinking a small dozer might be best or perhaps a tracked loader with a 4-way bucket. It should be similar to cutting in a driveway (but narrow - 6'). Dump trucks could not access the trail to dump. Probably wouldn't have to haul gravel from dumpsite(s) any longer than 200'. Anyone have experience with this type of work willing to offer input on production rates? Tips to speed the process a bit? Thanks in advance.

[Accu-cut Lawn Care]

Use a landscape rake on a skid steer to cut the trail.

[Dirty Water]

I'd suggest using a D3. Nothing would be faster.

Then use a small wheel loader to spread the gravel.

[RockSet N' Grade]

I put in a "trail" this last year. Before you get too far into it, and bid it, find out the specifics. This little "trail" I bid on changed from the get go.....by the time it was done, it was excavated out 10" recompacted and ended up being asphalted and having a vinyl fence and chain link fence thrown in on top of the deal. There were sprinkler lines (no big deal), irrigation mains (bigger deal ), and huge amounts of trash (used to be a dump site) which was a huge deal. The more info you find out the better off you will be on this one and be sure to be VERY specific about what you are/are not including in your bid and an "extra" rate.

[ksss]

I have cut most of the walking trails that I have done with an excavator. The lay of the land will really dictate how you approach the project. If there is contour on the ground that you want to keep I would use an excavator with a ditch bucket. It is easier to finess with an excavator I think. One that had an articulating bucket would be ideal. If it is mostly flat I would use a skid or CTL. I would not use a dozer but I don't own one either. At 5 feet wide for the finished product I would try and keep the ground disturbance to a mininum. You can knock out 3000 linear feet quickly. What equipment do you own? Do you have to rent equipment for the entire project?

[Scag48]

I'm with Kaiser on this one, I think the excavator is the way to go. However, I agree a D3 or something along those lines would be quick in some applications, but I think the excavator will get the trail closer to the finished product without a lot of finish work whereas the dozer is mainly a roughing tool. I cut a 12-14' wide and about 300' long driveway into a hillside last year with our 303. I had the 24" bucket doing most of the cutting, but carried our 40" cleanup with me. The cleanup bucket is especially good for cutting swales or any drainage related cuts. The blade when in float position does a good job if you drag it behind you. I roughed the driveway in about 4 hours and spent another hour or so finishing up with the cleanup bucket.

[Construct'O]

I'll go with Dirty Water on this one,since i have a dozer !!!!!!!!!

[mcclureandson]

Thanks for the replies. I have a skid-steer w/tracks. I mentioned a dozer because a 'trail dozer' is used almost exclusively by companies specializing in trail construction. However, a trail dozer is very small in relation to the machines many of you might own...

I am not proficient with an excavator. This will illustrate...can you scrape/push much dirt with the backfill blade on an excavator? I do all my trenching with a dedicated trencher...would love to learn more about such a widely used machine. The terrain is mostly flat or on a very slight slope. This is wooded terrain with rather large spaces between trees. I would need to scrape/grade down through the leaves, roots and loamy material deep enough to lay my stone dust base.

I was planning on staging multiple sites for the gravel dumps and make trips with the skid steer along the trail...I'd have my crews spread w/a compact track loader (Boxer Brute) and rake prior to compaction.

I'm an experienced landscape contractor...just realize you guys could do this portion more effeciently. I'll be renting whatever equipment seems appropriate.

Thanks again.

[AWJ Services]

For this kind of work a 4x4 Tractor with loader and Box Blade would really speed things up when it comes time too cover the trail with gravel.
Shuttle it in with the Skid Steer and spread with the tractor.
Would basically eliminate all hand work till compaction phase.

I would cut the trail with a tracked skid steer.
It will go fast unless the trees are really big.

[mcclureandson]

I agree...I use a tractor w/box blade on new construction during the final grade. I think rock screenings/dust would spread (dry) very easily. What blade would you recommend for the skid-steer. I'm thinking low profile, 4-way would work best. I've also seen dozer blades for skid-steers...wondering if something I could angle might help push the cut dirt toward the downhill side of my trail. Thanks alot for the input. I'm actually pretty excited about these two trails.

[AWJ Services]

If you are going too remove the top layer too get too good ground I assume you will have too move the material somewhere.I would use a bucket for grading the trail.
I guess if I owned a 4 way blade I would use it but the bucket will be fine.
Once the bucket fills it tends too act like a dozer blade.


There is always an "ideal tool" for a job but if you have a big enough skid steer and a tractor as well as a boxer then thats what I would use.
This time of year digging will be easy.
Good luck

[mcclureandson]

Thanks alot. We'll be starting the first trail later this month or first part of February.

[dozerman21]

I'm with Dirty Water. I would use a dozer and spread the stone with your skid. Someone who knows how to run a dozer could leave a finish type grade after the cut. If you don't know how to run one though, I'd just use your skid with tracks. Like most machines, anyone knowledgeable in excavation can work a dozer, but it takes time to become good on one. The only drawback would be that you'd have a wider overcut with a 550/D3 size dozer with an 8' blade, unless the dozer you have in mind is something like this beast.:)

[TerraFirma Excavating]

A lot of trails are put in here in Alaska. Specs call for the trail being no wider than specified and leaving exisiting trees in place, so no room for large machines.

Most contractors use a skid-steer or compact track loader in combination with a small dozer. They all seem to use some sort of hopper to ferry in and out material. Here's Bobcat's version http://www.bobcat.com/products/att/hopper.html Some of the contractors make their own hopper. I was thinking a mini belly dump trailer to pull behind the skid would be nice to lay down the rock/stone. Although the hopper would allow for easier loading of material to be removed from the trail. You could even load the hopper with a mini-excavator.

[mcclureandson]

I'd like to find a mini-belly dump trailer but doubt any of the rental yards around here would carry such a thing. I've seen online belly dumps specifically made for trail construction - 3,000lb capacity and towable with an ATV. It is possible my Bobcat dealer will have a hopper in rental. Three yards at a time would make the job go much quicker - I'd just have another machine at my piles for loading. Thanks.

[RockSet N' Grade]

what works as a "mini belly dump" is a pull behind pto driven manure spreader. you can disengage the beater bar and still run the chain driven conveyor system to dump/spread as you go.....it works pretty nice. also, if you decide to use a tractor with a box blade, consider getting a box blade with a roller on the back, it leaves a much smoother finish. a little dozer is the cats meow with a mini-ex as a compliment machine......if you are not a dozer operator with feel, stick to the skid steer.

[mcclureandson]

I've actually never driven a dozer before...half of me thinks it would be a nice opportunity to learn on someone else's dime - and the other half wants to crank out this job and move onto the next one...

[TerraFirma Excavating]

I'd like to find a mini-belly dump trailer but doubt any of the rental yards around here would carry such a thing. I've seen online belly dumps specifically made for trail construction - 3,000lb capacity and towable with an ATV. It is possible my Bobcat dealer will have a hopper in rental. Three yards at a time would make the job go much quicker - I'd just have another machine at my piles for loading. Thanks.

Just unhook from the hopper, pickup your bucket, load the hopper, drop the bucket, grab the hopper and drive and dump. Real easy, especially if you have a power Bobtach. Only one machine needed to load and haul. If you had a another bucket or 6-way blade on the trail, you could spread the material with the same machine.

[YellowDogSVC]

I'd suggest using a D3. Nothing would be faster.

Then use a small wheel loader to spread the gravel.


disturbing the soil opens up the phase ii can of worms. I would suggest brush mowing and grinding stumps to below grade with the mower leaving the shredded material on the ground. Can be raked or covered with the base if it isn't too thick. Larger wood you can go around or chip. Same machine can grind and spread the base and install culverts. Thinking of a large, high flow skidsteer.

[ksss]

On the Gov. trail jobs you can't disturb more X number feet beyond the walk path size (depends on size of walk path. All stumps have to be removed and hole filled with material and compacted back, Of course this typical gov kinda stuff if this is a private job may not be as big of a deal.

[YellowDogSVC]

On the Gov. trail jobs you can't disturb more X number feet beyond the walk path size (depends on size of walk path. All stumps have to be removed and hole filled with material and compacted back, Of course this typical gov kinda stuff if this is a private job may not be as big of a deal.


Our tax dollars at work. What a waste. If you are putting base or crushed limestone down, the stump only needs to be grinded to or just below grade. Disturbing it makes more work, disturbs more ground, and adds more to landfill, haul-off, etc. Gee Whiz. There are better ways to do things and the Gubment is the last to get on board.

[mcclureandson]

I'm responsible for plotting course of these walkways - my plan is to go with existing contours of land where possible, avoid removing any large trees and cross wet/boggy areas only as a last resort. IMO it seems prudent to scrape/excavate to 'good ground' in order to provide a suitable base for the compacted stone trail. Simply brush-cutting and spreading chipped debris prior to laying stone doesn't seem sound...wouldn't that compromise the integrity of the trail? It seems like I would at least need to scrape past the loamy material/rotting leaves misc debris prior to spreading and compacting stone. Thanks.

[YellowDogSVC]

How you prepare the ground would depend on your terrain and the sub base. For human and bicycle traffic, I doubt you need to excavate.. but that's my opinion based on not wanting to disturb too much soil. crushed base can hold up well if it is compacted well and since the trails will take maintenance anyway, seems like extra work to dig out soil prior to making a footpath.

[mcclureandson]

You might be right...trails will be crowned in center slightly to prevent water from puddling - outsloped at a comfortable pitch to shed surface water/rain etc...i'll certainly need to remove loose material/leaves minor debris etc, but the less I excavate the better. I'm fortunate to have a good relationship with the developers of these two trails...they want a reasonable per foot cost with specs submitted prior to construction as I see fit...Thanks.

[YellowDogSVC]

i would definitely use a vibratory compactor and you won't have too much trouble.

[mcclureandson]

Update on 1st trail...finished clearing, grading and cutting in trail with mini-ex and laborers. Did about 3000 feet in a day...I marked the trail, laborers went in and cleared vegetation and cut down small trees to stumps...went behind them with mini-ex and dug stumps and contoured the trail. Laborers went behind that and cleaned out roots, small stumps I had dug/cut free. I turned at trails end and went back one time with mini-ex's blade to smooth and level. This week I'll shape a bit more, compact, construct culverts, steps and walls. Next week we'll lay out gravel and compact. Thanks for the replies.

[oleblue]

I would use a mini excavator and a a back fill blade for the initial cut of the path. Then I would run a york rake across the path behind a tractor. You could put the aggregate down with a skid steer or a loader on a tractor. If you wanna acheive a 5' path. If you want a 7' path and want it fast the D3 is your friend