Sometimes you have to say "no"

[tthomass]

.............."At any rate, I take it from your email that you are not able to work around the pricing and your quote stands as is.

I am afraid, however, that your quote is too high, and although am sure you would do a great job, I am simply not in a position to accept it.

Unless you are willing to reduce considerably your quote, I am afraid we cannot proceed.

I thank you for your time and wish you success with your new business – I know it is hard!
Good luck!"

Sometimes you've just got to say "no" and my price is my price. The literally laughed (pissed me off and showed his arrogance) but just because someone doesn't like your price doesn't mean you fold. This was a $50,000 project.......refer to my signature haha

[ACutAbovesiny]

When I have someone that wants me to lower my prices I tell them its no problem....We'll just see what we can remove from the work to be done.

I never lower a price without decreasing the work to be done.

[ACutAbovesiny]

I see it as an insult to the customer if I lower my price just to fit their budget. They might see it as me just over charging. If I lower the price as a result of editing the work to be done than it shows the customer I am charging for what I am doing.

[mrusk]

Was this the job with the big wall and patio?

[tthomass]

Thats it! The wife ended up with a yeah okay its pretty, you go do whatever deciding honey and then he jumped ship wanting to lowball. I sent him an email explaining it was not in the best interest of my company to proceed. "Give me a break" is what he said to my $50 per man hr rate. Yeah okay buddy, good luck and call me when everything falls apart! Its okay, he has the money to do it twice.

No sweat, I'm off to the next one. I know a lot of guys give but who says the customer isn't just trying to hustle you. I give sometimes if group projects are being done at once and I can reduce my costs but really, "give me a break".

[RockSet N' Grade]

TThomas....your last post really got me chuckling. My saying for this area is "Why do it right the first time when you can do it twice?". About half my business is re-do's, in fact, that is what we are becoming well known for. This area is strictly price driven, they have no concern for quality, until it all fails.......and it does, and keeps me working almost full time.

[GreenN'Clean]

[QUOTE=ACutAbovesiny;1687154]When I have someone that wants me to lower my prices I tell them its no problem....We'll just see what we can remove from the work to be done.




Thats what I tell customers!!!!!!

[mrusk]

How did he know you were charging 50 an hour? And that is kind of low.


Last year in the spring i got a call for what would of been a awesome raised patio. The homeowner drew out his own plan and i came in and made alot of drastic changes that would of landed this job in any block manufactures catolog.

However, the woman owned a business consulting company and without a doubt tried to take advantage of my young age. Tried talking me into doing the job a hair over cost. Said it would do great things for my company. yada yada yada, you know the talk.

Well i give them a price about 3k over my material cost. I thought this job would help my busines so much. They came out to a patio i already did and i liked my work. So i go back to there house and shot final elevations. When i am working out my numbers i realized i would loose my butt so bad it wouldn't even be funny. I called them and told them i couldn't do the job for what i orginally quoted, and i was going to pass on it. They went balistic!

They had a 10k budget, and were mad i wanted 16k to do a 24k patio!

I will never let myself get into a situation again like that.

If i have a feeling the customer will beat me up on price, i will walk before i even work out a price!

[Uranus]

I only take the home runs now. Used to get pushed around a little when I started off but now if I dont get my price I walk. Saves you headaches later on. Like when its time to pay up.

[DVS Hardscaper]

Looks Like TTHOMAS was listening to a presentation from Paver Pete.



Anyway,

This is very common in this industry. very common in construction in general.

First and foremost - find out their budget. We even address this in our website. (click on link and scroll down) http://www.outdoorfinishes.com/about.html


Last week I priced a job that came to $18k. The lady said "my husband will want to get other quotes". Ok, fine! But there is no doubt in my mind that they'll get a quote of $13,000. No Doubt.

This business is getting harder and harder.

The demand for our services is here.

But so many people are working for so cheap, it's hurting me bad.

I'll bet you any amount of money that these people will find someone to do that $50,000 job for $38,000. And it sucks.

[tthomass]

The $50 per man hour was for the removal of their existing deck + disposal.

Paver Pete is the man......

[DVS Hardscaper]

Also, I never discuss our hrly rate.

I give the client a proposal for a lump sum.

If they find out they're going to pay us $150-$225 an hr for 3 guys, they'll resent us. they simply dont understand.



What were you wearing when you meet with these people? Where you dressed like a professional? (clean shoes, nice pants, nice collared shirt). or were you dressed like a field worker? See, when you dress like a field worker a prospective client is more likely to view you as a person of lower standards.

I was at the Techo Show case last week and I looked around the room of contractors. A majority of them were dressed as if they were ready to lay patios. And the ones that were dressed nicely, stood out the most. They had a much more serious look to them. It kinda made me realize what a prospective client see's.

[mrusk]

Speaking of how you dress...

When ever i go on estimates i dress like a professional now. I wear a pair of expensive dockers (not the ones from walmart, a nice botton down dress shirt, and a pair of dress shoes.

I really belive the way you dress is a reflection of your business. I am a young guy so i need all the help i can get to look more professional.

In this highly competive market i don't think wearing jeans with a polo shirt will cut it anymore. Every contractor has dressed that way for years!

[kieferslawn]

Speaking of how you dress...

When ever i go on estimates i dress like a professional now. I wear a pair of expensive dockers (not the ones from walmart, a nice botton down dress shirt, and a pair of dress shoes.

I really belive the way you dress is a reflection of your business. I am a young guy so i need all the help i can get to look more professional.

In this highly competive market i don't think wearing jeans with a polo shirt will cut it anymore. Every contractor has dressed that way for years!

I agree, appearance and knowlege is everything. I am young also(22), so sometimes it helps to look good, be very polite and know what your talkin about. People sometimes tend to second guess the younger guys. I guess if i was in the position to hire someone for a big job i'd want to make sure the company was legit amd could handle the job also.

[cgland]

Paver Pete is an idiot! It's all about the sale for him. At last years Techo showcase he swore up and down that what happened at Belgard wouln't happen w/ Techo. He told me that he would take me to a couple jobs to show me some of the new product, blah, blah, blah! When push came to shove he pawned me off to his hefty sidekick Joe. Needless to say I drove many hours to see a job that wasn't what it was supposed to be, never showed at one of my jobs when I installed the product....same old S#!&!
F him!

Chris

[mrusk]

Last year paver pete was the guy doing the techo showcase in nj. I thought he was arogant and had bad jokes.

[Dirty Water]

Speaking of how you dress...

When ever i go on estimates i dress like a professional now. I wear a pair of expensive dockers (not the ones from walmart, a nice botton down dress shirt, and a pair of dress shoes.

I really belive the way you dress is a reflection of your business. I am a young guy so i need all the help i can get to look more professional.

In this highly competive market i don't think wearing jeans with a polo shirt will cut it anymore. Every contractor has dressed that way for years!

I agree, but I don't take it that far. I believe you want to still resemble your trade somewhat yet still looked dressy.

A nice pair of jeans (no stains), a good belt, a tucked in button down shirt, and a clean pair of boots.

You want them to see a hardscaper, not a insurance salesman :)

[Lawnworks]

I agree, but I don't take it that far. I believe you want to still resemble your trade somewhat yet still looked dressy.

A nice pair of jeans (no stains), a good belt, a tucked in button down shirt, and a clean pair of boots.

You want them to see a hardscaper, not a insurance salesman :)

I agree... clean pair of Dickeys and a company polo. I guess it might be different if it was a 75k job.

[DVS Hardscaper]

holly cow, we're gettin off subject!

I have mixed feelings about how to dress.

I believe it important to look professional.

But on the other hand, I had a very very wealthy lady tell me last year that she liked me best (over the other contractor) because I had dirt / grease under my fingernails. I was also weaing dirty jeans.

She said the other guy have hands like a lady. No dirt. Smooth, etc.

And she said that my appearance instilled confidence in her that I have field experience. Where she said she wasn't sure of the otherguy ever set a finger on a paver.

[Mike33]

My theory is : Lets say you bid a job at 10k, the homeowner says can you do it for 7k. I feel if i or any one else accepts that then where is the 3k going too. I tell my customer in that case here is my price and if i do what my contract says with out deleting anything then i was screwing you 3k. Now i might throw in a little extra to make it look like i was giving something but i believe in my practice when it comes to matching prices or just cutting my price. When you make a special deal it will bite you some how, machine will break down or something.
Mike

[mrusk]

I really think how you dress should be based on what kind of job your selling. If your trying to pick up a lawn account you could dress one way. If your trying to sell a 6k walkway you dress another way.

I am trying to sell design/build pool and landscape packages. Basically the smallest job i am looking to sell is around 50k. I just feel its nessecassy to dress the part. In my area that i work i am dealing with some one the richest people in the country. When i show up to give a estimate, i want them to know i mean business.

Matt

[PSUturf]

The only time I lower my price is if they want to increase the size of the project. If I'm charging $18 / sq. ft. for a 300 sq ft patio and they want to enlarge the patio to 500 sq feet I might charge $17.50 / sq ft.

If somebody wants to bargain me down I tell them I made the price as low as possible from the start.

I am strictly sales and wear Dockers & collared shirt all of the time. I think it helps to give you credibility.

[kootoomootoo]

If you cant lower your price then why are you guys giving them your lowest price lowest price first?

I bought a 1/2 page full color yellow pages ad this year for $3000. Last year I was quoted $8000. Nothing is non negotiable. Why are any of you guys any different.

[DVS Hardscaper]

Some people beef their pprices up. Some dont.

In MD, our major telephone service provider is Verizon. Verizon will not lower their prices. the price they tell you, is the price it is.

One way to make a sale is to down grade. Instead of full color, maybe sell the ad as one color.

Same goes for landscape work.

Less money = less landscape.


The market is too competitive to risk loosing work over an over-inflated price.

Contractors in my area can not mark a job up by $4,000 and then come down to the actuall price. The homeowner will get other price quotes and probably go with the lower, and won't even call and ask "is this the best you can do".

We're not car salesmen.

Want this job done?

Want a good contractor that does outstanding work??

Ok, Great! Here's our proposal and references, look it over and call us when you're ready to proceed"

End of story.

[cgland]

I have to agree w/ Andrew. Why would you put yourself in a position to negotiate? This isn't a stand at a flea market, it's a professional service. Once you start negotiating it cheapens the industry as a whole. As soon as we start climin' out of the hole Jimmy the landscaper starts runnin blue light specials all over town and the professionalism we fight for is blown out of the water.

chris

[DVS Hardscaper]

Here are my negotiations:

1) CASH Payment, as in *American Currency*
2) We offer 'Off Season Discounts' December through Feb 20
3) "You can only afford $10,000? Ok, lets delete the seat wall..."

[kootoomootoo]

Some guys do estimates ...some are salesmen. Name one industry that doesnt negotiate.
How did patio installers become above negotiating.

[DVS Hardscaper]

Some guys do estimates ...some are salesmen. Name one industry that doesnt negotiate.
How did patio installers become above negotiating.



Exactly. Sell the client on customer service, attention to detail, competency, and professionalism - and one won't have to "negotiate" :weightlifter:


BTW kootoo - might you have a portfolio of your work for us to view?

[kootoomootoo]

Exactly. Sell the client on customer service, attention to detail, competency, and professionalism - and one won't have to "negotiate" :weightlifter:


BTW kootoo - might you have a portfolio of your work for us to view?

Certain jobs are design oriented so they are buying the best design/idea...pricing irrelevant.
BUT if they want widgets and your price for widgest is 20% more than the other guys price for widgets ......guess what.

Here is a website I am currently working on but have only uploaded a few pics to get it functional.

www.turfh20.com

[Henry]

I have to agree with the majority here. Price the job at what it is and if they can't afford it make changes or move on.

This reminds me of when I was getting new siding on my house. One guy shows up for an estimate dressed like a lawyer and gives me a price 30% higher than the other 2. Over the next week he called me 3 times, lowering the price each time eventually dropping $3000.00. I didn't hire him.

[leaflandscape]

We have 3/4 length baseball shirts with the company logo on the front and cargo pants for meetings. It's not a suit, but it does a good job of making us look approachable and yet knowledgeable. I can see wearing something more dressy to a tradeshow, but for the clients we like to attract (approx. $10000), this look seems to work.