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View Full Version : Good Quality 4" Pop-up


ed2hess
01-27-2007, 08:09 PM
I did a search and it looks like the general concensus was that the Rainbird 1800 was a good overall guality/cost product. Any new information regarding any other head that may be better. I am replacing around 100 heads and I am looking for good bang for buck. It is important that these snap back down, don't know if one manuf is better than others?

laylow1994
01-27-2007, 08:31 PM
why are you using 4".... just curious because i dont install 4" at all... but i have never had any problem with rainbirds at all.. big problems with toro and hunter....

Remote Pigtails
01-27-2007, 09:13 PM
I've used and repaired every 4' popup out there. 1804 seems to hold up the best. If you want strong retraction the 1804 sam head is the best. it has a stronger retraction spring plus you conserve water as well. Just make sure you have adequate pressure. it takes at least 30 lbs to push it up. I've redone whole yards with the sam prs heads and done meter readings before and after the job and the water savings is huge.

Bigred350
01-27-2007, 09:19 PM
Use the comercial grade rain bird products. Dont buy the crap from lowes/homedepot.

Dirty Water
01-27-2007, 09:50 PM
The 1804 is definitly the best spray on the market. Rainbird has the wiper seal figured out.

PurpHaze
01-27-2007, 11:09 PM
why are you using 4".... just curious because i dont install 4" at all... but i have never had any problem with rainbirds at all.. big problems with toro and hunter....

You install nothing but 12" pops???:laugh:

A 4" pop-up is quite adequate for Bermudagrass in our area and 6" is used for fescues.

Dirty Water
01-27-2007, 11:59 PM
I know a handful of contractors who prefer the 6" pops over 4" pops. Out here we have a mostly ryegrass mixture that is almost never cut over 4", so 4" pops are just fine in my opinion.

I also hate digging deeper holes :)

Without A Drought
01-28-2007, 12:41 AM
i'm kind of partial to the hunter pro-spray. not that rainbird is worse. and in most cases, the RB nozzles are superior.

if only hunter could figure out a good nozzle. (I-25 and above they're great, but below that, rainbird has them beat. rotors and sprays)

pg

laylow1994
01-28-2007, 02:40 PM
no i use nothing but 6" pu....

smcunningham
01-28-2007, 11:18 PM
best bang for buck rainbird 1804 4" p/u
1804 go down better than the 1800's

Dirty Water
01-28-2007, 11:25 PM
best bang for buck rainbird 1804 4" p/u
1804 go down better than the 1800's

There is no such thing as a 1800.

The 1800 is a series, the last number designates the popup height. 1804 is a 4" pop, 1806 is the 6" pop etc.

At least with the commercial rainbird heads. I have no idea what they call those imitation ones they sell at HD/Lowes.

Remote Pigtails
01-29-2007, 08:58 AM
One last thing from me. Nothing makes a head replacement job go faster than being able to use a remote to turn it on and off and do quick flushes. We don't even bother to flag. If you don't have one get one and I'll sell you the pigtails for hook ups.

PurpHaze
01-29-2007, 09:18 AM
Nothing makes a head replacement job go faster than being able to use a remote to turn it on and off and do quick flushes.

We couldn't function without using remotes on our systems. 99% of our controllers are Irritrol MC-Plus that we use the Eicon remote on and we now have 2 Hunter ACCs (with the Hunter IRC) since that is what we'll be switching to for all new controllers and when we have to replace existing ones. The remote capability is the reason we've switched all our battery operated controllers (except the SoloRains at that one theater) from Rainbird TBOS to Hunter WVC. We've even discussed changing out the SoloRains to WVCs but we're unsure if skateboarders and others will leave them alone (tempting electronic device with an antennae) since they will be viewable through wire mesh covers.

koster_irrigation
01-29-2007, 09:21 AM
Go Rainbird or Hunter

Toro makes a great spray body, but theyre nozzles still lack. I was 100% toro for almost 10yrs.

LCPullman
01-29-2007, 12:42 PM
I've had good luck with the Hunter Pro Spray. The Rainbird 1804 is also very good. Either would be great.

txgrassguy
01-29-2007, 01:32 PM
All I install is Hunter Pro-Sprays.
I agree the variable arc nozzles lack stability but it sure beats having to order all the different nozzles for the large installs we do.
Just on one apartment complex I (actually the crews) installed over 300 4" Pro-Sprays.
I haven't experienced any retraction problems or wiper seal issues either.
I have worked with Rainbird pop-ups during repairs but during installs the commercial contracts specify installing predominantly one brand so I have stayed with Hunter from the controllers through heads.

Wet_Boots
01-29-2007, 02:09 PM
One thing I'll compliment Toro for, is their making all the popups available in no-side-outlet versions, which makes them easier to replace. (which you will need to, more than with Rainbird 1804's)

Flow Control
01-29-2007, 03:13 PM
The SRS series is a waste but I would say that the PROS04 and 1804 are pretty much a wash in my experience (which isn't saying much) :cool2:

ed2hess
01-29-2007, 08:11 PM
Thanks for all the input, we see very few old Rainbird heads that fail to retract but sure see a lot of Hardie heads that are stuck. The Hunter Pro Spray is a hot seller in our area but I think we will stick with the 1804 heads unless they cost a lot more than the Huntrer heads.

Flow Control
01-29-2007, 08:31 PM
List Price

PROS4 $3.25

1804 $3.40

zman9119
01-29-2007, 09:47 PM
List Price

PROS4 $3.25

1804 $3.40

Our list price


PROS-04 $1.71

1804 $1.61

PurpHaze
01-29-2007, 11:17 PM
Hell... just put Orbits in. :)

Hank Reardon
01-30-2007, 12:20 AM
Our list price


PROS-04 $1.71

1804 $1.61

Sans SAMS, I assume?

Flow Control
01-30-2007, 04:28 AM
PROS-04 $1.71

1804 $1.61

I meant MSRP, not what a contractor pays

Speaking of SAMs, how many of you don't just buy the standard head and usually upgrade to a SAM or PRS type?

JimLewis
01-30-2007, 05:07 AM
We always use the PRS upgrade. As for SAMS, only where it's needed. Using SAMS all the time is a waste of money. Many zones are level so the SAM will have no benefit. Where there is a zone that has one or more heads that are lower than the others, we'll take the SAM upgrade.

As for the original post, go with Rainbird 1800 Series heads, like most of the respondents here said. They are the best. Also, like some of the others said, don't buy them from Hope Cheapo or Blowes. Get them from a real irrigation distributor. The RB stuff sold at those box stores is garbage.

SprinklerGuy
01-30-2007, 09:10 AM
One last thing from me. Nothing makes a head replacement job go faster than being able to use a remote to turn it on and off and do quick flushes. We don't even bother to flag. If you don't have one get one and I'll sell you the pigtails for hook ups


It would take me longer to hook up a remote at each of my 10 service calls per day than it does to suck the dirt out with my suck tube.....

;)

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=34796&stc=1&d=1111685681

PurpHaze
01-30-2007, 09:13 AM
Some suck... some blow. :laugh:

Remote Pigtails
01-30-2007, 10:18 AM
The point is the connector (pigtail) is set up for your next service call. I assume you see your customers more than once. I will post my reasons for why a remote is just as important for the homeowner systems as well as for the large commercial systems. I know that there are many contractors that install pigtails on all there systems because I talk to them and sell to them. After you've installed a few pigtails it goes pretty fast. There are just a few headache controllers. If you do yearly service checkups and spring restarts the remote is a must. I know my sister's two acre lot in Montana on the side of a small mountain would be a killer without that remote. The company she uses didn't check it out for that very reason. I hooked up a remote while I was doing some spring fly fishing checked out her system and found a zone stuck on that ran through the whole cycle.

SprinklerGuy
01-30-2007, 10:37 AM
Don't waste your breath....

Most of us on here aren't newbies and understand how a remote could make our life less miserable...

However, our clients are not going to purchase a pigtail...nor am I going to purchase one.....for the blowout/startup client with 4 zones.....not gonna happen.

As soon as you start giving them away, let me know.

DanaMac
01-30-2007, 10:51 AM
SG is in fine form already. Give 'em heck Tony!!

Absolutely NO Toro product. Go with the RB 1804 or the Hunter. Otherwise you or someone else will be replacing them in a few years again.

Remote Pigtails
01-30-2007, 03:38 PM
It's a little wordy but if you go to my forum at Remote Pigtails you can read my post on how I approach the customer/pigtail issue and why I'm going straight to the contractor with these rather than through the normal supply house route.

LCPullman
01-31-2007, 12:27 AM
I use the Hunter Pro-C (residential installs) which come standard with a remote port. I just wire it up when I install the controller.

PurpHaze
01-31-2007, 12:43 AM
I use the Hunter Pro-C (residential installs) which come standard with a remote port. I just wire it up when I install the controller.

I went out to inspect a contractor's job that was done when I was on vacation over the holidays. They installed a Hunter ICC instead of the ACC we're switching to which has the Smart Port already installed. Damn... now it has to be changed before I can play with my new Hunter IRC remote. :dizzy:

Hank Reardon
01-31-2007, 12:53 AM
We always use the PRS upgrade. As for SAMS, only where it's needed. Using SAMS all the time is a waste of money. Many zones are level so the SAM will have no benefit. Where there is a zone that has one or more heads that are lower than the others, we'll take the SAM upgrade.

As for the original post, go with Rainbird 1800 Series heads, like most of the respondents here said. They are the best. Also, like some of the others said, don't buy them from Hope Cheapo or Blowes. Get them from a real irrigation distributor. The RB stuff sold at those box stores is garbage.

Very rarely do we have a level property so we stock only the SAMs.

Hank Reardon
01-31-2007, 12:55 AM
..........................

Hank Reardon
01-31-2007, 01:10 AM
Don't waste your breath....

Most of us on here aren't newbies and understand how a remote could make our life less miserable...

However, our clients are not going to purchase a pigtail...nor am I going to purchase one.....for the blowout/startup client with 4 zones.....not gonna happen.

As soon as you start giving them away, let me know.

A lot of our clients have them (albeit we have no customers with only 4 zones). It's about upselling and generating more revenue with existing clients. I guess we all have our niches [or burdens].

Dirty Water
01-31-2007, 01:12 AM
Russ, I'll be moving to Seattle next week, and if I have any spare time in the next few months, I'm planning on hopping on the ferry and buying you a beer.

Oh, and I'd love to hit one of your job sites and ridicule (I mean, discuss) installation techniques :D

Hank Reardon
01-31-2007, 01:28 AM
Russ, I'll be moving to Seattle next week, and if I have any spare time in the next few months, I'm planning on hopping on the ferry and buying you a beer.

Oh, and I'd love to hit one of your job sites and ridicule (I mean, discuss) installation techniques :D

I look forward to it! Give me some notice and I'll take plenty of time off. We have some incredible sites to show.

Have you decided where you are going to live?

RB 1800's rule. (keeping on topic...)

Dirty Water
01-31-2007, 01:32 AM
The office is in Kirkland. I've been locating at apartments there. I've also looked at Edmonds, and its quite nice.

Flow Control
01-31-2007, 06:32 AM
They installed a Hunter ICC instead of the ACC we're switching to which has the Smart Port already installed. Damn... now it has to be changed before I can play with my new Hunter IRC remote. :dizzy:

What are you talking about? U can't spend the 10 seconds installing the smart port on the ICC yourself?:hammerhead:

PurpHaze
01-31-2007, 09:15 AM
What are you talking about? U can't spend the 10 seconds installing the smart port on the ICC yourself?:hammerhead:

Doubt that even I could install it in 10 seconds. On the ICC it is recommended that the Smart Port be installed via a tee added to the field wiring conduit. That's already hooked up so I'd have to remove the field wiring, remove the conduit, cut conduit, install a 1-1/2" x 1/2" tee, install the Smart Port, reinstall the field wiring, etc.:)

I know I could cut a hole through the cabinet and install it that way but this is one with a heavy duty metal cabinet. I'd end up having to gut the controller cabinet first to make sure that no metal shavings remain inside the box.

Flow Control
01-31-2007, 09:31 AM
Just trying to stop government waste.. lol.

I know it might be recommended and would be wise if you left the receiver in. But there are different ways to install that will more vandal proof.

PurpHaze
01-31-2007, 09:36 AM
Just trying to stop government waste.. lol.

Me too. I want the controller that was specified for the job. :)

I know it might be recommended and would be wise if you left the receiver in. But there are different ways to install that will more vandal proof.

Not necessary to leave the receiver permanently hooked up. That's what the Smart Port is for. :laugh:

Flow Control
01-31-2007, 09:55 AM
Me too. I want the controller that was specified for the job. :)


Guess I was ahead of myself, contractor just trying to save a few bucks then.


Not necessary to leave the receiver permanently hooked up. That's what the Smart Port is for. :laugh:

That is my point, the threaded T is not as necessary as you think. I guess if I was was reading it in literature I would take the same opinion. I guess I am just referring to field experience with ICR. You might see my point down the road.

*trucewhiteflag*

bicmudpuppy
01-31-2007, 10:45 AM
Get the right controller, the one that was paid for, but...........
to install the smart port, glue on a x1/2" snap saddle and drill a 1/4" hole. fish the wires to the controller and wow, it all works. takes more than 10secs, but not much more. Depends on the temperature. I like to give the glue 30sec to dry if the weather isn't real warm

Remote Pigtails
01-31-2007, 12:47 PM
One of the problems with not doing installs is you miss out on all the new stuff. So I took a trip to the local John Deere and went through all the controllers. I was impressed with what hunter has done controller wise. I set up a customer with a srr remote two years ago and felt like the karate kid trying to get it to work from the front yard. How well does that ICR work? I think my service guys would destroy it in 6 months. Supposingly Weathermatic is meant to upgrade their smartline to allow you to run any sytem and program it with a smartline controller assuming of course a smartline is installed. I've been waiting on Weathermatic to come out with their wireless weather monitor for two years now. I am going to try those battery operated hunter wireless valves this year.

Wet_Boots
01-31-2007, 03:37 PM
The SRR can be vastly limited in range, working in the real world. The first one I tried did have a line-of-sight range of over 400 feet. As for destroying it, the transmitter-receiver set can stay in a padded case, much like a Sidekick does. The SRR set are so light, that they are hard to hurt. My oldest SRR transmitter will 'reboot' if I drop it on a hard surface, but still keeps working.

A tip to get more range from the SRR, is to hold it to your chin, like it was an electric shaver. Turns you into an antenna, and extends the range.

Repairs
01-31-2007, 05:23 PM
You guys are making this smart port thing way too complex. Wire it up and shove it in behind the front door. When you need it open the door and plug in the reciever. Works great for me, and you dont have to always look at it. JW

Wet_Boots
01-31-2007, 05:34 PM
What door? I don't have any access when on service calls, much of the time.

Repairs
01-31-2007, 05:44 PM
You don't even check to make sure the clock is right when you go on a service call? No schedule recomendations? My point was that you dont have to install the port in pvc, and make it a special set up, you can just connect the port on the hunter controller, and close it in the controller behind the front door.

SprinklerGuy
01-31-2007, 06:24 PM
Don't bother debating w/ WetBoots...;)..especially with that atrocious set up you have for an avatar...don't they have irrigation codes and laws to prevent that in TX?

Flow Control
01-31-2007, 06:36 PM
You guys are making this smart port thing way too complex. Wire it up and shove it in behind the front door. When you need it open the door and plug in the reciever. Works great for me, and you dont have to always look at it. JW

Amen......... that was my point

Wet_Boots
01-31-2007, 06:39 PM
Huh? My avatar chicks are in training, in case Sheshovel's avatar comes back making trouble. (don't take any of this too seriously, now)

Since a lot of servicing is done with nobody home, some sort of outdoor mounting of a remote connector is customary, unless a controller is mounted so far away from an exterior wall, that the wiring harness will create interference.

It doesn't have to be Hunter's suggestion of a PVC tee, though. There are other ways to install those connectors.

SprinklerGuy
01-31-2007, 06:41 PM
Not your avatar....repairs avatar.....sheesh..keep up will ya?

Repairs
01-31-2007, 06:47 PM
I thought yall might like that avatar. We do have license laws, but that has only a minor impact when there is little enforcement. I rarely see or hear of someone getting sideways with TCEQ. Nah, no debating here. The projects we have remotes on we also handle all of the scheduling, so we have keys to access all of the rooms and controllers. Wetboots is right, if you don't have access to the controller then the port would need to be installed on the conduit outside the unit. In my experience in this part of the Country I can attribute probably 50% of the calls We get out on to be at least partly scheduling related issues. We keeps cases of 9v's on the truck to switch out as an added value service at no charge. I rarely take a call that we don't have access to the controller so it is a non-issue with us.

Wet_Boots
01-31-2007, 06:48 PM
Oh sorry, I was drinking heavily, and not paying attention. Let me grab that image and adjust the gamma on my dark old CRT monitor and....

Gee, that is a bit on the atrocious side. I wonder if there's any way that could actually be part of a code-compliant system.

PurpHaze
01-31-2007, 11:33 PM
Get the right controller, the one that was paid for, but...........
to install the smart port, glue on a x1/2" snap saddle and drill a 1/4" hole. fish the wires to the controller and wow, it all works. takes more than 10secs, but not much more. Depends on the temperature. I like to give the glue 30sec to dry if the weather isn't real warm

And if the field wiring conduit is galvanized? :)

Repairs
01-31-2007, 11:36 PM
And if the field wiring conduit is galvanized?

Rip it all out and change it to copper silly. Most everyone on this board is paid by the hour plus materials anyway. :laugh:

PurpHaze
01-31-2007, 11:40 PM
You guys are making this smart port thing way too complex. Wire it up and shove it in behind the front door. When you need it open the door and plug in the reciever. Works great for me, and you dont have to always look at it. JW

Uh... The object of the Smart Port is that you just plug the receiver into it without having to open the controller door. If I wanted to do that I'd stick with the Irritrol MC-Plus controllers that don't have the pigtails. I have to open the controller door, open the bottom panel and then hook the pigtail to the circuit board. Hell... If I'd wanted to always have to get into something to remotely control it I would have never switched our TBOS systems to WVCs. :laugh:

PurpHaze
01-31-2007, 11:44 PM
You don't even check to make sure the clock is right when you go on a service call? No schedule recomendations? My point was that you dont have to install the port in pvc, and make it a special set up, you can just connect the port on the hunter controller, and close it in the controller behind the front door.

I can see why Remote Pigtails has set up shop in Texas. :laugh:

Repairs
01-31-2007, 11:47 PM
Like I said earlier in this thread, We do scheduling for our customers so not opening the door is unacceptable to them, my comments previously would fall under those context. For those of you who don't ever have to open your controllers, or more likely use automatic et based controllers, or weather stations, sounds like you have it all figured out regarding the smart ports please disregard my earlier comments. :)

PurpHaze
01-31-2007, 11:49 PM
Rip it all out and change it to copper silly. Most everyone on this board is paid by the hour plus materials anyway. :laugh:


I'm an exception. And I don't readjust the controllers every time I'm on site. With only two of us servicing 40 school sites with over 140 controllers I have no desire to open a controller if I can get away with it. :)

PurpHaze
01-31-2007, 11:52 PM
Like I said earlier in this thread, We do scheduling for our customers so not opening the door is unacceptable to them, my comments previously would fall under those context. For those of you who don't ever have to open your controllers, or more likely use automatic et based controllers, or weather stations, sounds like you have it all figured out regarding the smart ports please disregard my earlier comments. :)

Dammit!!!! You gave up too easy. Protracted "arguments" are what drive up your post count around here. (and then they lead to way OT postings) :laugh:

Repairs
01-31-2007, 11:57 PM
Does that count as giving up? Seriously though I have to come up with something to post, I have a long way to go to catch up on that post count thing. I got kind of a late start. I think I may go ahead and update my avatar as you guys are not going to be able to take me seriously until I do.

Remote Pigtails
02-01-2007, 09:23 AM
Hey Repairs my daughter goes to Southwestern. i'll send you a note next time i'm coming down and we can hit Chuy's for nachos. I'm pretty low on the post count as well.

Repairs
02-01-2007, 09:51 AM
Let me know. I look for just about any excuse to get by Chuy's.