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View Full Version : Broken pipe, water flooding out, please help


Armadillolawncare
01-29-2007, 10:38 PM
I need some assistance please. I was mowing a yard today when I noticed water streaming out of the ground. At first I thought I must have run over a sprinkler head and chopped it off with the mower but upon closer inspection I saw that the water was coming up and out of a round valve cover box. Keep in mind that outside of replacing a sprinkler head or programming a timer I have never done anything with irrigation systems. I removed the round cover but couldn't see into the valve box because the water filling the box was all muddy and brown. I reached in and could feel what felt like water coming out of a break in the PVC pipe at the bottom of the valve cover box. I called an acquaintance that does irrigation installs to find out how to shut off the water. He told me to go out by the street where the water meter is located and there should be a rectangular box with a handle to turn to shut the water to the system off. If I couldn't find that I should look for a back flow valve with two handles, which would also shut the water off. Near the water meter I found one round valve box with a spigot handle in it which I turned and that shut the water off to the broken pipe. After much searching I could not find any back flow valve either above ground near the house or below ground in a square valve box. I know it is the law to install these backflow valves. Now when the property owner gets home she calls me because she has no water. This leads me to my questions.
1. The only thing I can figure about the broken pipe is I ran over the valve cover box and it got pushed down into the PVC pipe, which caused it to break, is this possible or likely? Should the valve box be able to get pushed into the pipe and broken?
2. I am beginning to suspect that the installer did not put in the backflow valve. Is there a way I can find out for sure?
3. Should the water shut off for the irrigation also shut off the water to the house? Right now the only way the water to the house works is if I turn the irrigation water back on.
3. This system was installed less then a year ago and is still under warranty. Would you think that this broken pipe would be covered?
I am meeting with the installer in the morning and I am beginning to think that he may have done a shoddy install job but I just don't know enough about irrigation systems to know for sure. If it is my fault for the water leak I'll get it fixed but if it is due to poor installation I want him to fix it. Any help you guys can give me will be appreciated.

PurpHaze
01-29-2007, 10:56 PM
1. The only thing I can figure about the broken pipe is I ran over the valve cover box and it got pushed down into the PVC pipe, which caused it to break, is this possible or likely? Should the valve box be able to get pushed into the pipe and broken?

Quite possible, especially if the box was either not notched out for the piping or inadequately notched. Couple this with the possibility that a leak could have already existed there and the ground softened up and this scenario is very likely. This could be the result of shoddy installation. Too many things can go wrong with a system and it's hard to guess.

2. I am beginning to suspect that the installer did not put in the backflow valve. Is there a way I can find out for sure?

If you're unsure how to track or know the difference between irrigation components then I'd suggest getting someone in the irrigation field to look at the system.

3. Should the water shut off for the irrigation also shut off the water to the house? Right now the only way the water to the house works is if I turn the irrigation water back on.

No. Without seeing exactly what you have it's hard to guess what's going on.

3. This system was installed less then a year ago and is still under warranty. Would you think that this broken pipe would be covered?

Depends on how long the original installer warrantied his work for. If you're sure that the warranty is still good it seems to me that it most likely would be covered. I'd make sure that you're there when he digs it up and TAKE PICTURES! That way the extent of what actually occurred can be documented.

I am meeting with the installer in the morning and I am beginning to think that he may have done a shoddy install job but I just don't know enough about irrigation systems to know for sure. If it is my fault for the water leak I'll get it fixed but if it is due to poor installation I want him to fix it.

TAKE PICTURES! :laugh:

Armadillolawncare
01-30-2007, 12:37 AM
PurpleHaze
Thank you for your help. I will take pics. If anyone else wants to chime in please feel free.

Flow Control
01-30-2007, 04:27 AM
TAKE PICTURES! :laugh:

Is your camera like your amex card, never leave home with out it?:laugh:

PurpHaze
01-30-2007, 09:00 AM
Is your camera like your amex card, never leave home with out it?:laugh:

Absolutely, positively. :)

I take all sorts of pictures. The wife has framed a couple of them and will be entering them in a local digital photo contest.

bicmudpuppy
01-30-2007, 09:13 AM
I need some assistance please. I was mowing a yard today when I noticed water streaming out of the ground. At first I thought I must have run over a sprinkler head and chopped it off with the mower but upon closer inspection I saw that the water was coming up and out of a round valve cover box. Keep in mind that outside of replacing a sprinkler head or programming a timer I have never done anything with irrigation systems. I removed the round cover but couldn't see into the valve box because the water filling the box was all muddy and brown. I reached in and could feel what felt like water coming out of a break in the PVC pipe at the bottom of the valve cover box. I called an acquaintance that does irrigation installs to find out how to shut off the water. He told me to go out by the street where the water meter is located and there should be a rectangular box with a handle to turn to shut the water to the system off. If I couldn't find that I should look for a back flow valve with two handles, which would also shut the water off. Near the water meter I found one round valve box with a spigot handle in it which I turned and that shut the water off to the broken pipe. After much searching I could not find any back flow valve either above ground near the house or below ground in a square valve box. I know it is the law to install these backflow valves. Now when the property owner gets home she calls me because she has no water. This leads me to my questions.
1. The only thing I can figure about the broken pipe is I ran over the valve cover box and it got pushed down into the PVC pipe, which caused it to break, is this possible or likely? Should the valve box be able to get pushed into the pipe and broken?
2. I am beginning to suspect that the installer did not put in the backflow valve. Is there a way I can find out for sure?
3. Should the water shut off for the irrigation also shut off the water to the house? Right now the only way the water to the house works is if I turn the irrigation water back on.
3. This system was installed less then a year ago and is still under warranty. Would you think that this broken pipe would be covered?
I am meeting with the installer in the morning and I am beginning to think that he may have done a shoddy install job but I just don't know enough about irrigation systems to know for sure. If it is my fault for the water leak I'll get it fixed but if it is due to poor installation I want him to fix it. Any help you guys can give me will be appreciated.

Fault could go either way. If there is no backflow or seperate shut off, I would blame the installer no matter what. Make him fix it or turn him in for improper installations. Make sure the homeowner understands the missing components are required by law. Texas is one of the few places I have any experience with that has any teeth in their irrigation licensing and backflow. It sounds like boots is in an area that does too. If your in doubt or just want to make sure your customer is taken care of, open the yellow book and find a licensed contrator with a reputation you can confirm. Give them a call. Many Licensed TX Irrigators would make the initial trip out to meet with you just to nail the guy who is not following code.

Armadillolawncare
01-30-2007, 02:09 PM
Someone came out this AM and located the backflow device. It was in a box buried under about 2 inches of dirt. I assume it was the installer who uncovered it but he left without repairing anything. I went ahead and dug up the the problem area. I would like to just go ahead and repair it myself. As you can see from the photo the pvc pipe broke right where it enters the valve. Is there a way to get the broken PVC pipe out of the valve so I can replace just the broken PVC pipe or will I have to cut off all pipes leading to the valve and then reconnect a new valve?

Wet_Boots
01-30-2007, 02:40 PM
Nope. That's a slip valve. and you just cut a new one into place, with the aid of a Sch 80 union, or a slip-fix fitting on the downstream side.

Armadillolawncare
01-30-2007, 02:53 PM
I assume the downstream side is the side the arrow is pointing to?

Wet_Boots
01-30-2007, 02:57 PM
That arrow ain't for pointing to Mecca

Pro-Scapes
01-30-2007, 03:44 PM
We had a similar situation this past summer. The ground was wet enough that the weight of the mower forced the PVC to snap off nearly 3 ft below grade at a T in the mainline feeding the backflow for the irrigation system. I had to cut water off to the house for nearly 4 hours while we dug it all up and fixed it. What a pain in the butt and no clue why it happened this time but not in the other 50 times we have cut this yard in the last year and a half before then. Needless to say we line trim that area now.

I really have a hard time choking that we actually caused the break. No rain in awhile and the ground was pretty wet. We fixed it as the guy owns 12 small apt complexes that we service and this was his own home.

bicmudpuppy
01-30-2007, 06:58 PM
So you have a backflow, system is legal and you already did the digging. The parts aren't going to set you back $20 if you already have a little glue and primer. You need a new slip valve a coupling and short piece of pipe. Its a 15 min fix at this point. Cut the pipe as close to the old valve as you can (love the cross, that would have been a real pita if you had broken on that side) add a short piece of pipe and the coupling to make up for lost pipe in the repair. Your choice what you actually give the customer. Looks like a new valve so you could keep the "old" valve for parts. You could also keep the top end from the new valve and put the old top end on the new body. This would be my choice if I was eating the repair because I could sell the top end later. If you buy irrigation parts at a supply house somewhere, you could also clean up the removed valve (trim the pvc from both ends) and tell them it was defective. I know my parts guy would trade me and give me a new one.

Wet_Boots
01-30-2007, 07:29 PM
If you are going to be taking over the service on the system, you might want to move the valve a bit away from the cross, and leave open the possibility of cutting in another valve, some years from now.

Dirty Water
01-30-2007, 08:05 PM
You won't be able to fit a slipfix in on the downstream side with that cross there, so I'd cut the valve out (as close as possible) and glue a new valve in (I hate slip valves, spinning a valve off its MA to replace is so much easier) and slipfix on the mainline.

I know some people shudder about using a slipfix on the pressure side, but I've installed hundreds and I have had 3 fail.

Armadillolawncare
01-30-2007, 09:15 PM
Guys I really appreciate you walking me thru this repair. The installer showed up this morning, located the backflow device, shut off the water at the backflow device and then turned water back on to the house. He then left without even looking at the damaged area as best I can tell. When I had spoken to him the previous day I had asked him to let me know when he showed up on site. I live next door to this customer and I asked him to call me or just knock on my door. Well he didn't check in with me or the customer. I have called him several times today as well as left a message for him at his office. I never heard back from him. I guess I am going to do the repair myself tomorrow. From the details you guys have given I think this is something I can and want to do myself. I really want to learn how to do as much as I can with irrigition systems. Any further help or advice you have regarding this repair would be appreciated.

Wet_Boots
01-30-2007, 10:26 PM
I think there's enough slack in the wire to move the new valve away from the cross fitting, which then would allow a slip-fix (that's a telescoping coupling) on the downstream side. Or a union fitting.

londonrain
01-30-2007, 10:30 PM
I would off set the valve and use four 90's....

Dirty Water
01-30-2007, 10:50 PM
Guys I really appreciate you walking me thru this repair. The installer showed up this morning, located the backflow device, shut off the water at the backflow device and then turned water back on to the house. He then left without even looking at the damaged area as best I can tell. When I had spoken to him the previous day I had asked him to let me know when he showed up on site. I live next door to this customer and I asked him to call me or just knock on my door. Well he didn't check in with me or the customer. I have called him several times today as well as left a message for him at his office. I never heard back from him. I guess I am going to do the repair myself tomorrow. From the details you guys have given I think this is something I can and want to do myself. I really want to learn how to do as much as I can with irrigition systems. Any further help or advice you have regarding this repair would be appreciated.

Bryan or Jerry would know better, but I'm pretty sure that in texas, if you are not a licensed irrigator, you should not be touching an irrigation system.,

sleeton
01-30-2007, 11:07 PM
Dirty Water is correct, in texas to work on the irrigation system you must be licensed. all the advice given to you as far as procedure goes is right on for the repair. i agree with londonrain, i would use 4 90's since you are repairing on the mainline. i have used slipfixes but prefer 4 90's on the main.

Armadillolawncare
01-30-2007, 11:21 PM
Sleeton what constitutes working on the irrigition system? I have been replacing rotors and spray heads already. Do I have to be licensed to unscrew a spray head and replace with a new one?

Repairs
01-30-2007, 11:22 PM
Many Licensed TX Irrigators would make the initial trip out to meet with you just to nail the guy who is not following code.

Who in the heck has time to being running around doing that crap? I say if the purchaser of the Irrigation is too stupid to reasearch what they are buying then they get what they deserve. I make more money going back fixing low-bid jobs anyway. :laugh:

PurpHaze
01-31-2007, 12:28 AM
Great job on the picture! See how much advice you got by posting that one picture so all can see exactly what you're dealing with? Wish more people with questions would get a digital camera and post a pic with it. :drinkup:

You've gotten several good answers but I'll chime in to stay away from a Slip Fix on the pressure side of the valve. If you install it incorrectly you may end up with an immediate leak when you turn the water back on. Move the valve away from the cross which will make things easier if there's a "next time" for anyone. I'd just use four 90s on the same plane as the existing lines.

PurpHaze
01-31-2007, 12:32 AM
We had a similar situation this past summer. The ground was wet enough that the weight of the mower forced the PVC to snap off nearly 3 ft below grade at a T in the mainline feeding the backflow for the irrigation system. I had to cut water off to the house for nearly 4 hours while we dug it all up and fixed it. What a pain in the butt and no clue why it happened this time but not in the other 50 times we have cut this yard in the last year and a half before then. Needless to say we line trim that area now.

I really have a hard time choking that we actually caused the break. No rain in awhile and the ground was pretty wet. We fixed it as the guy owns 12 small apt complexes that we service and this was his own home.

I'd bet you a cold beer that the leak had been present for quite some time. Eventually the ground got saturated enough that it would no longer hold the weight of your mower. If you repaired it properly and there are no more leaks in the area I'd be willing to bet another cold beer that after the ground dries up and solidifies you'll be able to run your mower through this area again.

Armadillolawncare
01-31-2007, 01:13 AM
Ok I have been reading carefully everything posted and anything I didn't understand I have been researching. I didn't know what a slip fix was so I googled it and found out. I also researched the backflow device and can now at least identify one when I see it and I also have an idea where to look for one when needed. But what the heck is a 90. I googled "irrigation, 90" and all I get are articles about irrigation in the 1990's. LOL So how about somebody telling me what a 90 is and maybe a link to a picture from a website or something.

Dirty Water
01-31-2007, 01:14 AM
http://www.dripworksusa.com/products/elbowslip.jpg

Also called an "el". PVC fittings are commonly called by the angle they are (90, 45 etc).

Haven't done much plumbing eh? If you have never glued a PVC line in your life, I'd recommend you have someone else do the valve replacement and watch them.

Using 4 90's allows you to flex the last 90 back together and you don't need a repair fitting (slipfix or union or compression fitting etc). You cut the pipe so that each end is even with each other like in the little picture I drew you.

PurpHaze
01-31-2007, 01:19 AM
See how NICE pictures are??? :laugh:

Hank Reardon
01-31-2007, 01:23 AM
See how NICE pictures are??? :laugh:

Fancy new diagrams from the computer guy! I, on the other hand, prefer Crayons...:)

Dirty Water
01-31-2007, 01:29 AM
Fancy new diagrams from the computer guy! I, on the other hand, prefer Crayons...:)

You want to see Fancy, look at Hayes CAD drawings. They make my MSpaint stuff look like my 3 year olds preschool artwork :)

Mad Estonian
01-31-2007, 01:45 AM
Someone came out this AM and located the backflow device. It was in a box buried under about 2 inches of dirt
Huh? I don't know what the code says in Texas specifically, but I would bet there's something in there about easy access to installed backflow preventers... that doesn't sound very easy. You could probably nail the guy for that too (or was it transparent dirt?).

Hank Reardon
01-31-2007, 01:51 AM
Someone came out this AM and located the backflow device. It was in a box buried under about 2 inches of dirt
Huh? I don't know what the code says in Texas specifically, but I would bet there's something in there about easy access to installed backflow preventers... that doesn't sound very easy. You could probably nail the guy for that too (or was it transparent dirt?).

Sounds like moles.

Armadillolawncare
01-31-2007, 01:56 AM
Yes well I thought that the 90 might refer to the angle of the pipe but that just seemed to easy and obvious. Surely it had to be some secret irrigators code that I would be lucky find out. Now that I know the secret irrigators code can you guys teach me the secret irrigators handshake.
Seriously though if I can get the installer to finally return my call I'd like to get him to fix it while I watch. This guy is giving you irrigators a bad name the way he seems to be blowing me off.

Armadillolawncare
01-31-2007, 02:01 AM
Dirtywater thanks for the pics. As I was looking at them my 4 year old son came in to ask me to tuck him into bed and wanted to know what I was doing. I told him I had people from all over helping me figure out how to fix our neighbors sprinkler. I then showed him on a map where you and PurpleHaze are located in relation to Texas. So in addition to helping me with my broken pipe you guys are helping my son understand the value of the internet and geography.

PurpHaze
01-31-2007, 09:24 AM
Yes well I thought that the 90 might refer to the angle of the pipe but that just seemed to easy and obvious.

It could be an el or an ell and there are also 45 degree ells or els. It could be a hose bib or bibb, screw or "fastener" or a myriad of other things. Some terms are across-the-board while others are company specific. :)

Surely it had to be some secret irrigators code that I would be lucky find out. Now that I know the secret irrigators code can you guys teach me the secret irrigators handshake.

No big secret especially after you've been awarded the Irrigators' Secret Decoder Ring at graduation ceremonies. Boots is in charge of that ceremony here at the forum. Problem is that at the banquet after the awards all he has catered are Otter Pops.:laugh:

PurpHaze
01-31-2007, 09:26 AM
So in addition to helping me with my broken pipe you guys are helping my son understand the value of the internet and geography.

Wait until we all move. Then he'll have to figure it all out again.:laugh:

Armadillolawncare
02-01-2007, 05:56 PM
Here is a pic of the repaired pipe done by the original installer. I was going to do it myself but after it was brought to my attention that you needed to be licensed to do the repair I thought I would keep after the installer to do the repair. Let me thank you again for all your assistance. After your advice and watching him make the repair I know I could have easily done this myself.

Repairs
02-01-2007, 06:06 PM
I don't think there is a secret handshake, you just have to do your time in the muddy ditches. :laugh:

jerryrwm
02-01-2007, 06:35 PM
I don't think there is a secret handshake, you just have to do your time in the muddy ditches. :laugh:
Well, Joe Key, Hugh Rushing, & Johnie Madison all know the secret handshake. They taught it to me down at Benigan's on IH-35 years ago.

londonrain
02-01-2007, 06:38 PM
If I would have been forced to use a slip fix, I would of used it on the lateral side not the main..

Repairs
02-01-2007, 06:45 PM
Well, Joe Key, Hugh Rushing, & Johnie Madison all know the secret handshake. They taught it to me down at Benigan's on IH-35 years ago.

Well If all those old school Texas Irrigators taught you the handshake you must really know how to do it well. They never taught me the handshake, but I do buy parts from Madison over at ewing though, does that count?

newz7151
02-01-2007, 06:55 PM
After your advice and watching him make the repair I know I could have easily done this myself.

Well, it's good that you got it fixed. Sure, you could have done the repair yourself, but without being liscenced, you're putting yourself at a bit of risk should something else happen. Now, if you are this person's neighbor, and did not charge a dime for the repair, you probably could have done it as a neighbor helping neighbor thing and nothing could have come of it to be a problem.

koster_irrigation
02-01-2007, 08:12 PM
How many of you all noticed in this picture that the original installer must have been running short on white common wire?

He picked up red, not that it matters for serving one valve. Im too picky to do that.

** upon further review, those both might be hots. i see only one red solenoid wire with the white

crappy install though, put the valve way too close to the cross, give a couple of feet min.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72028&stc=1&d=1170180501

Repairs
02-01-2007, 08:20 PM
Maybee things are different here in Texas but the mere fact that their is a cross in the line makes it questionable to me. Way too much going on in a cross to be a good joint. Would have been better to stack tee's with enough pipe between them that repairs could be made if needed.

koster_irrigation
02-01-2007, 08:26 PM
we use quite a few 1" crosses, at least one on every other install. Never had a problem. Always on a lateral. Never that close to a valve.

Repairs
02-01-2007, 08:28 PM
Oh I guess i dont like them because it takes two slip-fixes to fix one thats well buried wheras two tees takes one.

koster_irrigation
02-01-2007, 08:31 PM
I bet the weight from the valve box craked this. (mower running over it) & Not knotching out the side walls or sitting it on bricks proper like.
http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=72028&stc=1&d=1170180501

Repairs
02-01-2007, 08:34 PM
That is how all of them around here crack when the valve box sits too close and something like a mower runs over it. Our stuff around here is all shallow too because we have a lot of rock.

Armadillolawncare
02-01-2007, 09:09 PM
That is exactly what I think happened. It rained most of January and the ground softened up a lot. I think when my mower ran over it it pushed the valve box down and broke the pipe. I have been mowing this property for 6 months without a problem then we got all the rain which softened up everything. That is my guess. It cost me 85.00 to have it fixed. I did the digging and the original installer did the actual repair.

koster_irrigation
02-01-2007, 09:22 PM
You could have told him he didnt install his valve box properly.

I needs to be supported. Not sitting on the pipe. A properly installed spec. grade valve box can have a small car run over it. Thats if you knotch out for the pipe properly and or set it on bricks.

Repairs
02-01-2007, 10:45 PM
Now you said it Koster. Someone will call you and say the some thing tomorrow. It is inevitable now. :)

Dirty Water
02-01-2007, 11:29 PM
Talk about a crappy repair job. Of course, the install job wasn't exactly something to be proud of either.

The guy needs to learn how to glue clean, A couple pics of stuff I've done, for Amardillo's benefit :)

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=60931&d=1153880122

Manual valve manifold for a manual system. We reused the 1 straight valve from the system and added two new zones, Funky manifold design just to level out the valves in the box.

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67235&d=1162261898

Replaced the old 1.5" angle valve without having to rebuild the manifold:

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67236&d=1162261904
http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=67237&d=1162261912


http://jholland.phpwebhosting.com/irrigation/crapmanifold.jpeg

Replaced all these (S)Hit valves:

http://jholland.phpwebhosting.com/irrigation/crapmanifold4.jpeg

Much better :)

http://jholland.phpwebhosting.com/irrigation/stupidmanifold.jpeg

Another stupid manifold, I needed to add two valves:

http://jholland.phpwebhosting.com/irrigation/stupidmanifolddone.jpeg

All better :)

PurpHaze
02-01-2007, 11:34 PM
... sitting it on bricks proper like.

Bricks and 2x4s are for sissies.:laugh:

Dirty Water
02-01-2007, 11:38 PM
Bricks and 2x4s are for sissies.:laugh:

No bricks here, just proper compaction and box notching.

PurpHaze
02-01-2007, 11:38 PM
How many of you all noticed in this picture that the original installer must have been running short on white common wire?

Hunter standard solenoids have two red wires. (DC latching solenoids have a black and a red wire.) I think what you're seeing is the red solenoid wire attaching to the white common wire.

Irritrol solenoids come in all black or all white depending on what's being used at manufacturing time.

Repairs
02-01-2007, 11:40 PM
Dirty water, that is some good looking piping work.

PurpHaze
02-01-2007, 11:40 PM
Maybee things are different here in Texas but the mere fact that their is a cross in the line makes it questionable to me. Way too much going on in a cross to be a good joint. Would have been better to stack tee's with enough pipe between them that repairs could be made if needed.

Our specifications allow crosses on lateral lines. Crosses on main lines are strictly forbidden and you'll be yanking it out if I catch it. :)

Dirty Water
02-01-2007, 11:44 PM
On commercial sidewalk strip installs, we use a cross at every zone:

Mainline varies from site to site, but I use this technique:

http://jholland.phpwebhosting.com/irrigation/valvelayout.GIF

And yes, I know some people have issues about 45's...I happen to like them.

Repairs
02-01-2007, 11:52 PM
45's are fine as long as you understand as they rate right up there with male adapters. The field failure rate on our repair calls on 45's is extremely high. 90's have a natural thrust blocker whereas 45's don't. On a 45 the energy is going in too many directions. They are usefull in some situations though.

PurpHaze
02-01-2007, 11:54 PM
On commercial sidewalk strip installs, we use a cross at every zone:

Mainline varies from site to site, but I use this technique:

http://jholland.phpwebhosting.com/irrigation/valvelayout.GIF

And yes, I know some people have issues about 45's...I happen to like them.

Cause you're a "plow boy" and have to get everything close to a straight shoot. :laugh:

Actually, we use 45s trenching to get sprinklers into corners.

Dirty Water
02-01-2007, 11:56 PM
Commercial installs with 3 and 4" pipe get trenched. I plow up to 1.5" only.

I like the 45's because they allow me to install that whole assembly in a much smaller hole. I always butt the 45's up to the side of hole.

PurpHaze
02-01-2007, 11:57 PM
We've had this discussion before and proven there is no advantage space-wise of 45s over 90s. :hammerhead:

Repairs
02-02-2007, 12:00 AM
If the trench comes in at a 45 then it would take some extra digging to get two 90's in there unless you could stack the 90's.

PurpHaze
02-02-2007, 12:02 AM
??????????????????????? You need to learn how to "quote" in your posts so we know who you're giving shat to. :laugh:

Dirty Water
02-02-2007, 12:03 AM
We've had this discussion before and proven there is no advantage space-wise of 45s over 90s. :hammerhead:

http://jholland.phpwebhosting.com/irrigation/45.GIF
http://jholland.phpwebhosting.com/irrigation/90.GIF

When you move up here I'm going to drive out and we are going to do some irrigation :)

Repairs
02-02-2007, 12:06 AM
I be not a shat giver. More digging would be required under his technique to put in 90's unless he has clearance to stack the 90's.

Repairs
02-02-2007, 12:09 AM
When you move up here I'm going to drive out and we are going to do some irrigation

Or maybee some Irritation :laugh:

PurpHaze
02-02-2007, 12:09 AM
When you move up here I'm going to drive out and we are going to do some irrigation :)

Leave your 45s at home though. :laugh:

PurpHaze
02-02-2007, 12:11 AM
Or maybee some Irritation :laugh:

I'm sooooooooooooooooooo proud of you. You found the quote button. :laugh: :clapping:

Repairs
02-02-2007, 12:13 AM
When you move up here I'm going to drive out and we are going to do some irrigation
Leave your 45s at home though.


Now thats funny right there. I dont care who you are. :laugh:

PurpHaze
02-02-2007, 12:25 AM
When you move up here I'm going to drive out and we are going to do some irrigation.

Leave your 45s at home though.

Now thats funny right there. I dont care who you are.

Should look like this instead. :laugh:

Repairs
02-02-2007, 12:30 AM
Should look like this instead. :laugh:

Dog gone, I still learn something new everyday. :cool2:

Remote Pigtails
02-02-2007, 09:11 PM
I hate crosses and 45's

PurpHaze
02-02-2007, 10:53 PM
I hate crosses and 45's

I used to not use crosses but we get in some really tight spots between classroom buildings with not a whole lot of room for trenching. Couple that with tons of gas, electrical, domestic water, fiber optic and other assorted lines in these same areas and the fewer times I have to turn and put the trencher in the ground the better. :)

An extra slip fix doesn't kill our budget when repairs are made. Besides, the pipe is dinky (1/2", 3/4", 1") in these areas. :laugh:

In an open field I'll offset tees rather than using crosses.

Repairs
02-03-2007, 12:41 AM
I used to not use crosses but we get in some really tight spots between classroom buildings with not a whole lot of room for trenching. Couple that with tons of gas, electrical, domestic water, fiber optic and other assorted lines in these same areas and the fewer times I have to turn and put the trencher in the ground the better. :)

An extra slip fix doesn't kill our budget when repairs are made. Besides, the pipe is dinky (1/2", 3/4", 1") in these areas. :laugh:

In an open field I'll offset tees rather than using crosses.

You must be using a tiny trencher if you cant stack tee's on 1/2, 3/4 or 1" with the trenches cut straight across. :laugh:

PurpHaze
02-03-2007, 01:20 AM
You must be using a tiny trencher if you cant stack tee's on 1/2, 3/4 or 1" with the trenches cut straight across. :laugh:

Stop keyboarding with a drawl so I can understand you. Maybe it's a regional thingy, but what's your definition of "stacking tees?" :laugh:

Repairs
02-03-2007, 01:25 AM
Stop keyboarding with a drawl so I can understand you. Maybe it's a regional thingy, but what's your definition of "stacking tees?" :laugh:

I would assume you could guess to what I am referring to as an alternative to a cross. Rather than a cross use two tees in alternating directions. If your trencher is cutting 5 or 6" you should have plenty of room. Thats just how us Texas boys do it though, it probably wont work for you. :laugh:

Remote Pigtails
02-03-2007, 08:16 AM
In TX clay or at least here in Dallas the ground shifts too much and crosses can't take it. I'm sure this summer i'll be cutting one out so i'll get some camera shots. Every now and then I'll get a 1.5" cross bushed three different ways with tees immediately butting against it. i know the guy who put it in is laughing. (laughing smilie here)

Armadillolawncare
02-03-2007, 10:20 AM
Any chance I can get one of you guys to post a pic of what "stacking Tees" looks like so I can understand what you are talking about?

Flow Control
02-03-2007, 10:51 AM
PURP probably has some in his archives

PurpHaze
02-03-2007, 12:18 PM
Actually, I don't have pictures of this one. But here's a drawing of what I think he's referring to. The keyboarding drawl is still a little thick though. :laugh:

Repairs: We refer to this as "offset tees" in our area as versus your "stacking tees". :)

PurpHaze
02-03-2007, 12:20 PM
Any chance I can get one of you guys to post a pic of what "stacking Tees" looks like so I can understand what you are talking about?

STOP IT! You guys are killing me! A Texan that can't understand another Texan? :laugh:

Dirty Water
02-03-2007, 12:30 PM
Up here, stacking fittings refers to when you have multiple pipes in a trench, and you've got a bunched of stacked tee's or 90's in the corner somewhere.

Its always a real biatch to repair when its the bottom one that breaks :)

PurpHaze
02-03-2007, 12:46 PM
I just hate it when lateral lines are stacked next to and on top of a main line and then you get a leak in the main line. We often end up cutting out the lateral lines (and rerouting them with 90s afterwards) so we can repair the main line leak.

PurpHaze
02-03-2007, 12:55 PM
Speaking of biatch crosses... a couple of years ago we investigated a leak near a QCV at one of our junior high schools. Upon digging it up we discovered a 4" galvanized main line cross approximately 2' away that had two mechanical couplings on it. One of them was leaking so we sprayed the bolts with PB Blast and let it sit for an hour. We were then able to tighten the bolts a little and stop the leak. Can't wait until this one blows up on us as it will be a major repair job.

I also know of a 3" transite cross at one of our older schools that I hope never gives way.

Wet_Boots
02-03-2007, 01:04 PM
I thought the stacked tees were over on the Calendar Girls thread

Dirty Water
02-03-2007, 01:14 PM
Does that chick have a 'stache?

PurpHaze
02-03-2007, 01:57 PM
Maybe she's Portuguese? :)

Repairs
02-03-2007, 09:24 PM
This is what I had in mind.

PurpHaze
02-04-2007, 11:42 AM
What I figured. We refer to it as "offset" tees around here.

Armadillolawncare
02-04-2007, 01:26 PM
What length of straight PVC would you put between these Stacking Ts?

Wet_Boots
02-04-2007, 01:59 PM
Cross fittings are a pain with poly tubing, too. A good alternate there, besides the offset tees, is to make a 'swivel cross' from two tees that have threaded side outlets. Especially useful when reducing pipe size.

Repairs
02-04-2007, 03:13 PM
What length of straight PVC would you put between these Stacking Ts?

With the size pipe that was mentioned above, it does not matter, imo your better off butting them up if the alternative is a cross. The more the better though.

Without A Drought
02-04-2007, 04:15 PM
With the size pipe that was mentioned above, it does not matter, imo your better off butting them up if the alternative is a cross. The more the better though.

Granted, I work in poly, and thinking from a service standpoint, I would think one would try and leave enough room between T's to make a repair possible without having to replace the whole thing.

That's me though, even on installs I try to anticipate servicing the system in the future.

pg

Repairs
02-04-2007, 05:38 PM
Granted, I work in poly, and thinking from a service standpoint, I would think one would try and leave enough room between T's to make a repair possible without having to replace the whole thing.

That's me though, even on installs I try to anticipate servicing the system in the future.

pg

Always better to leave more room, but in the example above the poster said that when he trenched he only had room for a tee, and it would be better butting up the tees with no room between than puttin in a cross, for the sole reason that a cross takes two slip-fixes or comp. couplings to fix, wheras two tees (even butted up tees) can be repaired with one slip-fix or comp. coupling.