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View Full Version : Master Valve Disconnected From Controllers


ed2hess
02-02-2007, 10:37 PM
I have a new property that has a master valve out on the media between the roadway. The valve was connected to three controllers.....but continuity has been lost. There is no way to trace the wires because they likely cross a couple street. I would to turn this valve on. It dumps too much water if I turn the bleeder or the selnoid. My question...if I remove the spring inside the valve will it stay on, and not leak.

Dirty Water
02-02-2007, 10:43 PM
I've seen people gut the diaphragm to make a valve always stay open.

You need it to seal around the edges, but you can cut out the inside.

PurpHaze
02-02-2007, 11:15 PM
I have a new property that has a master valve out on the media between the roadway. The valve was connected to three controllers.....but continuity has been lost.

Multistrand??? :laugh:

There is no way to trace the wires because they likely cross a couple street.

Says you. I've traced wires across roads, parking lots, etc. with my 521. :nono:

I would to [like to] turn this valve on. It dumps too much water if I turn the bleeder or the selnoid. My question...if I remove the spring inside the valve will it stay on, and not leak.

Why not just remove it then? Or replace it with an isolation valve like a ball or gate valve? Just gut it like Jon said. :)

Wet_Boots
02-02-2007, 11:40 PM
If you want a standard solenoid valve to stick open, just remove the plunger from the solenoid assembly.

txgrassguy
02-02-2007, 11:54 PM
A common problem I have found which perhaps ed is experiencing is that wires and charged pipe are often located in the road base/asphalt with no conduit.
As Wet Boot refers to, the easiest manner is enable the valve to remain open is by removing the solenoid plunger.
However, if this valve is indeed the master valve for the irrigation system, depending upon what municipality you are working in, a master valve is usually required.

Dirty Water
02-03-2007, 12:19 AM
Multistrand??? :laugh:

Woah their cowboy. I've never seen every strand inside of a multistrand fail, and I always pull enough to have at least 2 spares, so if it is multistrand, it might just save his azz ;)

Repairs
02-03-2007, 12:46 AM
I have a new property that has a master valve out on the media between the roadway. The valve was connected to three controllers.....but continuity has been lost. There is no way to trace the wires because they likely cross a couple street. I would to turn this valve on. It dumps too much water if I turn the bleeder or the selnoid. My question...if I remove the spring inside the valve will it stay on, and not leak.

You can track with a 521 across the street, we have done that many many times. Sounds like you best bet would be to bypass the master, and if you need the master, you could set a battery controller to come on within a window that you set the controllers for. A latching solenoid can stay on all the time and it will not hurt it. I had a system of battery controllers that had masters and it worked fine.

PurpHaze
02-03-2007, 01:12 AM
Woah their cowboy. I've never seen every strand inside of a multistrand fail, and I always pull enough to have at least 2 spares, so if it is multistrand, it might just save his azz ;)

I gathered from the post that he's only having wiring problems with the master valve. Would be interesting to see a diagram as to where the controllers are in relation to the master valve. :)

PurpHaze
02-03-2007, 01:16 AM
Woah their cowboy.

I think you have me confused with Gabby Hayes, Roy. I grew up at the beach on rock n' roll. The OC really does exist. :laugh:

koster_irrigation
02-03-2007, 08:45 AM
Quote:
There is no way to trace the wires because they likely cross a couple street.

Says you. I've traced wires across roads, parking lots, etc. with my 521.


tracing is no problem

Remote Pigtails
02-03-2007, 11:13 AM
Repairs-That was really good suggestion. I'm going to keep that one in my memory bank.

PurpHaze
02-03-2007, 11:53 AM
Repairs-That was really good suggestion. I'm going to keep that one in my memory bank.

...and if you need the master, you could set a battery controller to come on within a window that you set the controllers for.

Actually, it was a great idea if a master valve is required by code or convenience. Battery-operated controllers have multiple program times so even if the three standard controllers operated on different days and at different times the battery-operated controller could be programmed to open the master valve for "watering windows" of all three standard controllers. :clapping:

ed2hess
02-03-2007, 05:44 PM
I gathered from the post that he's only having wiring problems with the master valve. Would be interesting to see a diagram as to where the controllers are in relation to the master valve. :)
Two of the controllers are about 500 yards away on opposite sides of the road...this master valve is in the media of a divided 4 lane road. The other controller is about a 1/4 mile further away on one side of the road. There are about 40 valves on these 3 controllers........wire paths to 9 valves have been lost over 10 years but none in vicinity of this master valve. I am a fair user of the 521 but the traffic noise and wiring for the road lights interfer with its use. By the way none of the 3 controllers have wires hooked to the master control terminals. And more puzzling is this valve was apparently stuck open for the first month we had the property because we was running the irrigation...then suddenly no water and I traced it to this valve.:dizzy:

Remote Pigtails
02-03-2007, 07:49 PM
I know this shouldn't be asked but did you check to make sure the water meter is on?

Repairs
02-03-2007, 09:17 PM
I would cut her out and be done with it, if it is not required.

Remote Pigtails
02-03-2007, 09:44 PM
HER! It's a MASTER valve.

ed2hess
02-03-2007, 11:05 PM
A lot of good input......I don't think I will take it out. I will try to see if I can get a Hunter battery controller with latching solenoid to fit up on this irritol valve. I want to have this master valve to go on when sun goes down and off when sun comes up. There is a lot of traffic on the street and if any of valve stick open along the street they will be on my butt for wasting water..Don't know if you can program the Hunter controller to stay open for 12 hours? I'll try to trace the wiring again but since these fiber optics guys tore up these streets a couple years ago I"ll bet they cut lines where they crossed under the street and that would be costly to repair.

PurpHaze
02-04-2007, 11:12 AM
Two of the controllers are about 500 yards away on opposite sides of the road...this master valve is in the media of a divided 4lane road. The other controller is about a 1/4 mile further away on one side of the road. There are about 40 valves on these 3 controllers........wire paths to 9 valves have been lost over 10 years but none in vicinity of this master valve.

OK... Starting to make a little more sense. Is one of these controllers strickly for the street median or is the center island controlled by a combination of the controllers? Does the master valve cut off the entire median or only part of it?

I am a fair user of the 521 but the traffic noise and wiring for the road lights interfer with its use.

I've never had too much problem with traffic noise but the earsplitting feedback from electrical lines wipes out the tracing process in many cases.

By the way none of the 3 controllers have wires hooked to the master control terminals.

Could have worked fine initially and then someone had problems and just removed the master vale wiring from the terminal. Are there extra wires in the controllers?

And more puzzling is this valve was apparently stuck open for the first month we had the property because we was running the irrigation...then suddenly no water and I traced it to this valve.:dizzy:

Yep... a little puzzling.

PurpHaze
02-04-2007, 11:28 AM
A lot of good input......I don't think I will take it out.

Good for you. It can still act as an isolation valve (by manually shutting it down via flow control... it BETTER have a flow control on it) in the event there are mainline or valve leaks further downstream.

I will try to see if I can get a Hunter battery controller with latching solenoid to fit up on this irritol valve.

Take my advice (based on lots of experience with Irritrol DC latching solenoids)... Irritrol does not make an encased DC latching solenoid for their valves. They rely on an after-market multi-piece DC latching solenoid that is prone to problems of leaking, sticking and just plain failure. If you're planning on using a Hunter battery operated controller then I would highly recommend that you change the valve out to a Hunter valve also. Hunter valve/latching solenoid/controller combinations have worked very well for us.

I want to have this master valve to go on when sun goes down and off when sun comes up. There is a lot of traffic on the street and if any of valve stick open along the street they will be on my butt for wasting water..Don't know if you can program the Hunter controller to stay open for 12 hours?

The Hunter SVC has a maximum station run time of 4 hours but it also has 9 program starts. You could set up three 4 hour programs to run consecutively.

I'll try to trace the wiring again but since these fiber optics guys tore up these streets a couple years ago I"ll bet they cut lines where they crossed under the street and that would be costly to repair.

Good luck Ed. Let us know how things turn out.

ed2hess
02-04-2007, 06:20 PM
. If you're planning on using a Hunter battery operated controller then I would highly recommend that you change the valve out to a Hunter valve also. Hunter valve/latching solenoid/controller combinations have worked very well for us.
.

Thanks for the good feedback....I meant to say I was planning on using a Hunter latching solenoid and I have to find a fit up adapter for the 2" Irritol valve. Thanks again..

Repairs
02-04-2007, 08:17 PM
Thanks for the good feedback....I meant to say I was planning on using a Hunter latching solenoid and I have to find a fit up adapter for the 2" Irritol valve. Thanks again..

I dont think there is an adapter made. You might end up going with a solo-rain becaue there are adapters for them.

PurpHaze
02-05-2007, 08:57 AM
I meant to say I was planning on using a Hunter latching solenoid and I have to find a fit up adapter for the 2" Irritol valve.

Hunter does not make an adapter to transition between their smaller diameter solenoid male threads and the larger diameter Irritrol solenoid female threads. That's why we changed out all our Irritrol valves to Hunter ICVs when we switched from the Rainbird TBOS battery-operated controller system to the Hunter WVC system.

Remote Pigtails
02-05-2007, 09:45 AM
It's been a while and i know nothing about the Hunter but wouldn't the programming features of a solorain be better as a master valve? Also there is some piece of the puzzle missing on this job and mental flow chart is screwed up.

Repairs
02-05-2007, 01:38 PM
I would only use a solo-rain if it was not within reason to cut the valve out and put in a hunter valve. I have seen way too many problems with the solo-rains in the field to recomend them highly. I will use them if that is the only option. I have warranted many for sticking on, and not turning off, and have had an extremely high number of them that would go blank or dead, with a good battery. The batteries are near possible to find also. Due to the high failure rate, the extra cost over the hunter unit, and difficulty to find batteries, I only use them as a last resort.

mikecaldwell1204
02-05-2007, 08:13 PM
actually there is an adapter for an irritrol valve. rainbird makes them. what you do is get the adapter screw it onto the irritrol valve. next remove hunter solenoid from svc, splice in a rainbird dc latching solenoid, screw to adapter on irritrol valve, and waa laa you can now use the svc without replacing the valve. hope this helps you out.

ed2hess
02-05-2007, 08:14 PM
Hunter does not make an adapter to transition between their smaller diameter solenoid male threads and the larger diameter Irritrol solenoid female threads. That's why we changed out all our Irritrol valves to Hunter ICVs when we switched from the Rainbird TBOS battery-operated controller system to the Hunter WVC system.
To get from Hunter controller to irritrol....you have to use a rainbird latching solenoid and two adapters. I don't know if the two adapters are both rainbird but they were on all the valves. But as I plan to switch to all Hunter valves as they fail.

ed2hess
02-05-2007, 08:16 PM
It's been a while and i know nothing about the Hunter but wouldn't the programming features of a solorain be better as a master valve? Also there is some piece of the puzzle missing on this job and mental flow chart is screwed up.
I see no advantage of solorain over the Hunter......those solorain batteries are hard to chase down and taking those off/on to put in battery is very tricky. It is very easy to cross thread. JD stopped stocking the solorain.

Remote Pigtails
02-05-2007, 09:46 PM
I agree the batteries are a pain to run down. Radio Shack has them but their employees don't know it. We have a place right by me in Richardson that stocks every battery imaginable. I get all my batteries from them and they sell the heaviest six volt battery you can find for my 521. They are called EVS or electro van systems. I can give more info if anybody wants it. My thought on the solorain as a master was that you put in a start time and then an end time so it could be open for whatever water window you wanted. I'm going to try the Hunter on my next battery timer though. The reviews here are certainly better.

Wet_Boots
02-05-2007, 10:01 PM
There are more than one family of Solorain devices. I believe these (http://www.nelsonturf.com/products/model.cfm?MODEL=30) are the ones used by that Otter Pop eater in SoCal, and they have machined-brass adapters for other solenoid valves.

PurpHaze
02-05-2007, 10:30 PM
There are more than one family of Solorain devices. I believe these (http://www.nelsonturf.com/products/model.cfm?MODEL=30) are the ones used by that Otter Pop eater in SoCal, and they have machined-brass adapters for other solenoid valves.

1. I'm NOT in southern CA... CENTRAL CA thank you. :laugh:

2. I don't eat a steady diet of Otter Pops except when the granddaughter visits in the warmer times of year. :)

3. The 8014 is what we have/had in the planters that pictures were taken of. There is a metal adapter (used to be brass but I think it's stainless now) that goes between the SoloRain and the valve. By spring there will no longer be SoloRain in these planters. We've decided for convenience sake to install Hunter ASV-101 valves and WVCs in the remaining planters as well as a small turf area that is currently manually operated via an angle valve. Can't beat the remote control capability when working on these dang planters. :clapping:

PurpHaze
02-05-2007, 10:36 PM
My thought on the solorain as a master was that you put in a start time and then an end time so it could be open for whatever water window you wanted.

That would be the one advantage. You just set a start time, set an end time and then set the days you want it to water. The SoloRain 8014 is quite easy to program and I'd almost call it foolproof.

I had to make up an Excel sheet on these eight planters to keep track of their programs so they won't bump into each other very much. The water supply is from an old galvanized domestic supply and can get real "iffy" when there's high demand in the neighborhood.

PurpHaze
02-05-2007, 10:42 PM
actually there is an adapter for an irritrol valve. rainbird makes them. what you do is get the adapter screw it onto the irritrol valve. next remove hunter solenoid from svc, splice in a rainbird dc latching solenoid, screw to adapter on irritrol valve, and waa laa you can now use the svc without replacing the valve. hope this helps you out.

Thanks for the info Mike. However, the only Rainbird parts we use are the Falcon high speed, stainless steel rotors for baseball/softball infield clay/dirt dust control. We'll even be switching these out to Hunter I-40 high speed rotors in the future.

To get from Hunter controller to irritrol....you have to use a rainbird latching solenoid and two adapters. I don't know if the two adapters are both rainbird but they were on all the valves. But as I plan to switch to all Hunter valves as they fail.

Mike says one adapter, you say two. I just rip them out and make the whole thing 100% Hunter. :laugh:

Wet_Boots
02-06-2007, 10:30 AM
1. I'm NOT in southern CA... CENTRAL CA thank you. :laugh:It's all La-La Land from here :p