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Paradise Yard Service
02-04-2007, 06:11 PM
A question for the experts. What precautions (if any) do you take with respect to the constant exposure to the primers/adhesives used in irrgation?
I,ve thought of using some 4-mil nitrile gloves you buy in a box of 100. Cant find anything on the search and don't know if this gets much attention.

laylow1994
02-04-2007, 06:19 PM
i dont use anything for a precaution with primer or adhesive.... the only thing i use are safety glasses... trust me it sucks when you get some turf-tite blue glue right in your eyeball....

zman9119
02-04-2007, 06:27 PM
As with any products, read and follow the manufactures directions...


You might want to read the MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheets) on their websites. For IPS Weld-On, tryhere (http://www.ipscorp.com/weldon/msds.html). This information will tell you all the hazards (health, fire, anything else).

(Also you should have a copy of these on site per OSHA regulations).


.mz

Paradise Yard Service
02-04-2007, 06:32 PM
Thanks. I have never used any protection for my hands and have not seen anyone else for that matter.

londonrain
02-04-2007, 07:00 PM
I use the nitrile gloves , I buy a box of 100 from Harborfreight.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=37052

zman9119
02-04-2007, 07:19 PM
I try to wear gloves and I always wear ANSI rated glasses.


(Hate to put it this way... I have gotten buzzed before when one of the morons I was working with kicked over a can of primer into a trench \ hole. That was a fun day.)

Repairs
02-04-2007, 08:25 PM
We buy the Thickster Gloves. They are double thickenss nitrile gloves and it is the only way to go to keep them from tearing. We tried several different cheaper gloves and always had to double up to keep them from tearing. The thicksters can be used multiple times too. They are on ebay, although I cant remember where we bought them, but we bought a case.

PurpHaze
02-05-2007, 09:03 AM
Sad to say... we haven't found a synthetic glove that gives both comfort, feel, durability and warmth. Maybe we'll try some of the gloves recommended by others. Currently we just use brown Jersey gloves and glasses. At least the Jersey gloves offer some protection and warmth (during colder weather) and are substantial enough for handling pipe and other parts.

SprinklerGuy
02-05-2007, 09:19 AM
No gloves for 25 years......in fact, I love the sting of primer in my cuts.....

PurpHaze
02-05-2007, 09:33 AM
Kind of like Robert Duvall's line "I love the smell of napalm in the morning." :)

Repairs
02-05-2007, 09:48 AM
Sad to say... we haven't found a synthetic glove that gives both comfort, feel, durability and warmth. Maybe we'll try some of the gloves recommended by others. Currently we just use brown Jersey gloves and glasses. At least the Jersey gloves offer some protection and warmth (during colder weather) and are substantial enough for handling pipe and other parts.

I have been known to put the nitrile on over a brown Jersey glove to keep my hands warm.

londonrain
02-05-2007, 09:50 AM
I used the brown Jersey gloves one time and they stained my hands brown....

jerryrwm
02-05-2007, 12:11 PM
No gloves for 25 years......in fact, I love the sting of primer in my cuts.....And a liberal application of Corn Husker's Lotion at night to get the cement off of your hands. Haven't found anything that removes the purple color from the primer tho'.

koster_irrigation
02-05-2007, 12:59 PM
^ clear primer or cleaner will take it off

sildoc
02-05-2007, 01:02 PM
We use the atlas type gloves. get the thicker ones for winter and the real cheap ones for summer use. they last about a week before they are trash. only one problem is too much primer and you notice your laytex coating starts to rub off on everything you touch. there are also some rubber insulated gloves we use when it is really wet and cold. Not much feeling through the gloves but when your fingers are numb there isn't much feeling any ways.

Wet_Boots
02-05-2007, 02:00 PM
(Hate to put it this way... I have gotten buzzed before when one of the morons I was working with kicked over a can of primer into a trench \ hole. That was a fun day.)The solvent that makes up the 'rubber paint' that concrete swimming pools are painted with is very similar to PVC primer. I was quickly finishing off the deep end of a small pool when some numbnuts on the crew knocked over the paint bucket and wiped out my 'escape path' ~ Ohhhh, baby! Buzz city. I could only imagine what OSHA would make of those work conditions today.

PurpHaze
02-05-2007, 11:05 PM
I used the brown Jersey gloves one time and they stained my hands brown....

They occasionally do when they're real wet. Our mechanic has some hand cleaner that takes the stain off. Don't remember offhand what it is though.

Haven't found anything that removes the purple color from the primer tho'.

I keep a pumice stone in the shower which takes all traces of primer and glue off.

Dirty Water
02-06-2007, 05:02 PM
I never wore gloves, I used the primer to locate hidden cuts :D

PurpHaze
02-06-2007, 11:05 PM
I just bet there's a bottle of hand lotion in your desk drawer now. Hands get sooooooo torn up from all that keyboarding. :laugh:

Without A Drought
02-07-2007, 01:25 AM
I just bet there's a bottle of hand lotion in your desk drawer now. Hands get sooooooo torn up from all that keyboarding. :laugh:

That's funny. watch for callus's on your fingertips.

I haven't seen anyone touch on the subject of PVC glue vs. NuSkin. whenever i have a cut that's driving me nuts, i'll just put a dab of glue on it... the stinging sensation tells you its working.

pg

bicmudpuppy
02-18-2007, 10:31 AM
never could stand to wear golves, and I thought clear primer and turf-tite made up half of every real irrigators first aid kit. Yes, primer will take the glue off. clear cleaner will remove purple primer (they don't charge extra for clear). Watch those "fumes" guys. Yeah it feels like a buzz, but down in a tight hole, basement or vault, remember that the chemical weld process is a major oxygen user/stealer. You could find yourself in a low/zero oxygen environment very quickly! I was making up a connection in a 6' vault once and I almost didn't make it out. I got one of those blue star oxygen deprived moments like one of my asthma attacks with a 3' manhole cover as the only exit!

irrig8r
02-19-2007, 07:20 PM
Is it the acetone in the primer that supposedly goes straight to your liver?

Anyway, I went for years without gloves, then have been wearing latex gloves for a while. They tear easily. They don't hold up in sun or sweat.. and boy do they stink.... don't like the lingering smell on my hands after washing when I go to eat lunch.

My girlfriend suggests finding an alternative because she heard that (1) you can develop an allergy with prolonged exposure... and (2) latex is used in a lot of medical/ surgical applications so it's better not to be sensitized in case you ever need it...

I have some "extra strength" transparent vinyl gloves at Home Depot to test out, but I wonder if the primer will eat them.. I saw "nitrile coated" latex gloves at HD, and can find nitrile gloves online.. but are they the same thing?

lawncuttinfoo
09-28-2007, 06:36 PM
I bought a box of vinyl gloves and it sure seems like the gas went straight through the membrane, I took them off and my hands were soaked with fuel.

zman9119
09-28-2007, 07:16 PM
Don't use vinyl or latex, only us nitrile gloves.


.mz

Mike Leary
09-28-2007, 07:20 PM
With care (& plenty of rags) one should not get much on the hands, I just
had trouble with the gloves & never used them except in the winter.
AS important are the fumes, which is why I switched to the medium body
glues years ago...711 & P-90 primer..the hotter glues are dangerous to
the system..unless you like low grade buzzes.:dizzy:

FIMCO-MEISTER
09-28-2007, 08:52 PM
With care (& plenty of rags) one should not get much on the hands, I just
had trouble with the gloves & never used them except in the winter.
AS important are the fumes, which is why I switched to the medium body
glues years ago...711 & P-90 primer..the hotter glues are dangerous to
the system..unless you like low grade buzzes.:dizzy:

I'm funding my retirement by suing the glue folks for all my physical ailments.

EagleLandscape
09-28-2007, 09:13 PM
on installs i use jersey gloves cause i get a little sloppy. my father said he used to have foreign antibodies in his blood. and his doctor came to conclusion that it was the primer and glue that did it. beats me

Kiril
09-29-2007, 01:45 AM
No gloves for 25 years......in fact, I love the sting of primer in my cuts.....

ROFLMAO :laugh:

Kiril
09-29-2007, 01:48 AM
With care (& plenty of rags) one should not get much on the hands, I just
had trouble with the gloves & never used them except in the winter.
AS important are the fumes, which is why I switched to the medium body
glues years ago...711 & P-90 primer..the hotter glues are dangerous to
the system..unless you like low grade buzzes.:dizzy:

Same here. Use 2711 glue and no need to worry much about VOC's.

nacarson
09-29-2007, 03:36 AM
Have any of you tried Gorilla PVC glue? Much less toxic. www.gorillapvc.com. Several independent reviews claimed... well I don't trust reviews much but overall was quite happy with it.

FIMCO-MEISTER
09-29-2007, 08:51 AM
Have any of you tried Gorilla PVC glue? Much less toxic. www.gorillapvc.com. Several independent reviews claimed... well I don't trust reviews much but overall was quite happy with it.

Not at my supply house. But copper glue is.:nono: It would be tough to ever get me to leave Turf-Tite and purple primer.

Kiril
09-29-2007, 09:15 AM
Not at my supply house. But copper glue is.:nono: It would be tough to ever get me to leave Turf-Tite and purple primer.

I've used the copper "glue" in places where I could not get a torch. I have mixed feelings about the stuff, but generally don't like it very much.

Mike Leary
09-29-2007, 06:17 PM
I actually (I know you guys don't believe it) worked today getting
some 3 valve manifolds together ( Lasco manifold tees), I noticed
that I could clean the purple primer & 711 off the connections with a dab
of wet 'n dry primer. Like clean manifolds...as well as tidy wiring.:)

FIMCO-MEISTER
09-29-2007, 07:13 PM
I actually (I know you guys don't believe it) worked today getting
some 3 valve manifolds together ( Lasco manifold tees), I noticed
that I could clean the purple primer & 711 off the connections with a dab
of wet 'n dry primer. Like clean manifolds...as well as tidy wiring.:)

Cool Mike! Take a pic of your three can holder for us.:laugh:

Mike Leary
09-29-2007, 08:27 PM
Cool Mike! Take a pic of your three can holder for us.:laugh:

Umm, I think the thread was wavering towards
wireing of clocks...all the field wire should hit the
splice box (8 x 8 or larger) then head to the clock,
remote should be in the splice box, not at the clock.
I would rip that wiring end to end...IMHO.

turfnh2oman
09-30-2007, 09:58 AM
No gloves for 25 years......in fact, I love the sting of primer in my cuts.....

Now there's a man in my line of thinking:waving:

turfnh2oman
09-30-2007, 10:20 AM
Let's see, 30 plus years in the business. Had my hands in everything from Thiram to Phenylmercuricacetate. Haven't had any 3 legged baby's yet despite all of the OOOOOOOHHHHH, WARNINGS, MSDS SHEETS AND SO ON !
Glue and primer are lollipops and Kool-aid.

Granted, there are safety precautions, sure but most of it is just plain common sense.

Just for kicks I tried to wear the nitrile lined cotton gloves and safety glasses on one install. It was almost 100 degrees outside and here I am leaning over attempting to put pvc pipe fittings together. Between the sweat rolling off of me and inside my glasses the lenses were fogging up and glasses kept slipping down my face, etc. besides the gloves being nothing but IN THE WAY. I said the hell with this.
A little glue on your fingers and an occasional splash of primer in the eye never hurt anyone. Yeah sure it burns for a minute but it goes away.

Oh yeah, and let's not forget the cancer causing agents / exposure. You want a fact here ? You obtain more cancer causing agents and fecal matter in a glass of drinking water.

If you read the fine print on most MSDS / HazMat sheets you'd be wearing a rubber suit with self contained breathing apparatus too. This would work great in most of the summer season for our business, I'm sure.

You know when they do those product tests they are under extreme conditions. For instance, they take a rat in a lab and soak him in a tank of let's say purple primer, for a week. Then they do their tests and statistics and somewhere 47 generations down the line after 50,000 rats have been born they attribute the one that has only four toes back to the purple primer THEN put out a big SCARE, HOLY CRAP BATMAN !!!!! We gotta jump on this !
Rubber suits for everyone, Oh my God !

Just be careful, use your head and don't drink it, okay ?

Uh-Duuuh :nono: :hammerhead:

Mike Leary
09-30-2007, 07:26 PM
Let's see, 30 plus years in the business. Had my hands in everything from Thiram to Phenylmercuricacetate. Haven't had any 3 legged baby's yet despite all of the OOOOOOOHHHHH, WARNINGS, MSDS SHEETS AND SO ON !
Glue and primer are lollipops and Kool-aid.

Granted, there are safety precautions, sure but most of it is just plain common sense.

Just for kicks I tried to wear the nitrile lined cotton gloves and safety glasses on one install. It was almost 100 degrees outside and here I am leaning over attempting to put pvc pipe fittings together. Between the sweat rolling off of me and inside my glasses the lenses were fogging up and glasses kept slipping down my face, etc. besides the gloves being nothing but IN THE WAY. I said the hell with this.
A little glue on your fingers and an occasional splash of primer in the eye never hurt anyone. Yeah sure it burns for a minute but it goes away.

Oh yeah, and let's not forget the cancer causing agents / exposure. You want a fact here ? You obtain more cancer causing agents and fecal matter in a glass of drinking water.

If you read the fine print on most MSDS / HazMat sheets you'd be wearing a rubber suit with self contained breathing apparatus too. This would work great in most of the summer season for our business, I'm sure.

You know when they do those product tests they are under extreme conditions. For instance, they take a rat in a lab and soak him in a tank of let's say purple primer, for a week. Then they do their tests and statistics and somewhere 47 generations down the line after 50,000 rats have been born they attribute the one that has only four toes back to the purple primer THEN put out a big SCARE, HOLY CRAP BATMAN !!!!! We gotta jump on this !
Rubber suits for everyone, Oh my God !

Just be careful, use your head and don't drink it, okay ?

Uh-Duuuh :nono: :hammerhead:

Rubber suit suggested for this post.:hammerhead: :dizzy:

Wet_Boots
09-30-2007, 08:55 PM
The really nasty solvents were probably off the menu by the time PVC pipe became popular. Not that xylene and tetrahydrofuran are anything to gargle with.

irrig8r
10-01-2007, 08:48 PM
A question for the experts. What precautions (if any) do you take with respect to the constant exposure to the primers.....

I make a point not to use it to brush my teeth or gargle with.

irrig8r
10-01-2007, 08:53 PM
Have any of you tried Gorilla PVC glue? Much less toxic. www.gorillapvc.com. Several independent reviews claimed... well I don't trust reviews much but overall was quite happy with it.

This is the first I've ever heard of it. Tell me more.

nacarson
10-02-2007, 03:18 AM
Okay so take this with a pinch of rock salt since this is just a HO posting. I used the stuff on my install, having used the red hot blue glue and hating the smell.

Pros: Doesn't smell; doesn't catch fire; washes off with water; gives you longer to work with; doesn't need primer; use less glue; reviews claim it joins stronger; still stings on wounds like you guys enjoy :cry:

Cons: Don't trust reviews; tried to verify strength claims but couldn't break neither it nor blue glue joins; still requires primer to meet codes in some areas even though unnecessary; costs more.

Overall I am happy with it. It was _way_ more pleasant to work with than red hot. Below are some photos of my mainline glued with it. Before you guys start tearing apart the HO:hammerhead: , yes I know the copper riser jokes and they are probably excessive ;) and my mainline isn't as deep as Kiril's (but hey, I didn't hit a gas or phone line either :) ). I sweated all the copper incl the supply tie in, don't trust the epoxy either.

Not sure if the photos will come out... Attached them... Will see.

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-02-2007, 09:27 AM
No photos. puhleeze get your photos on here. I will rip anybody who rips you. By the way I've never had to do this since I go through it fast but I've heard if you store your glue upside down it will last longer. Supposingly seals the air out.

PurpHaze
10-02-2007, 09:33 AM
Rubber suit suggested for this post.:hammerhead: :dizzy:

Yup... a lot of our threads turn into "peep show" events. :laugh:

Kiril
10-02-2007, 10:10 AM
and my mainline isn't as deep as Kiril's (but hey, I didn't hit a gas or phone line either :) ).

:laugh: I ended up bringing the line depth at the 45 jog up to 12", which is minimum depth required by the city. It ends up being about 16" deep at the house. I'll post some pics in the other thread. On close inspection of the gas line, it does not appear I went through the plastic sleeve, however I did pretty much go all the way through the phone line.

nacarson
10-03-2007, 12:34 AM
OK here are a couple of pics from part way through the work. Mainline is about 15" or so deep on average, 1.25" sch 40 running about 70ft.

In the first picture, things look a little cramped but actually the spacing between the valves is really big. I put in the copper risers to avoid keeping pressurized PVC above ground level - really just paranoia on my part and probably unnecessary, over here I see some systems built like that but lots just running the PVC all the way up. Anyhow. The valves are somewhat higher than one would expect cos the yard is not level (for that reason I installed SAM-PRS sprays at the front). There's one 1" Rainbird ASVF, and two of the low flow drip valves.

In the second photo, the mainline is running around one of the birch trees where I dug under the roots. The trench is actually a little deeper there, and also goes sleeved under a brick path just off this photo. There's a good 1" between the pipe and the roots to allow for expansion, erk. Still scares me.

7 zones in total, 4 drip and 3 sprinkler. Three "mini manifolds" where I kept the valves as close to the watering zones as poss.

All the PVC was glued with the Gorilla stuff, and I always put male PVC threads into female copper. Glue seems to work nicely.

If these photos work well, maybe I'll post some more of the whole project...

N

Paradise Yard Service
10-03-2007, 02:12 AM
All you guys crack me up!:laugh:

I will be sure to pack 'the rubber suit' the next time.

Aloha

FIMCO-MEISTER
10-03-2007, 06:47 AM
OK here are a couple of pics from part way through the work. Mainline is about 15" or so deep on average, 1.25" sch 40 running about 70ft.

In the first picture, things look a little cramped but actually the spacing between the valves is really big. I put in the copper risers to avoid keeping pressurized PVC above ground level - really just paranoia on my part and probably unnecessary, over here I see some systems built like that but lots just running the PVC all the way up. Anyhow. The valves are somewhat higher than one would expect cos the yard is not level (for that reason I installed SAM-PRS sprays at the front). There's one 1" Rainbird ASVF, and two of the low flow drip valves.

In the second photo, the mainline is running around one of the birch trees where I dug under the roots. The trench is actually a little deeper there, and also goes sleeved under a brick path just off this photo. There's a good 1" between the pipe and the roots to allow for expansion, erk. Still scares me.

7 zones in total, 4 drip and 3 sprinkler. Three "mini manifolds" where I kept the valves as close to the watering zones as poss.

All the PVC was glued with the Gorilla stuff, and I always put male PVC threads into female copper. Glue seems to work nicely.

If these photos work well, maybe I'll post some more of the whole project...

N

Very nice pics. I also see you don't cut your roots out of the way which 99% of all irrigators would. Seeing how meticulous you are I can understand why you are doing it yourself. The average irrigator would be driving you nuts. The copper also has the added advantaged of aging and fading into the background and fence better. Keep the project pics coming.

PurpHaze
10-03-2007, 09:29 AM
All you guys crack me up!:laugh:

I will be sure to pack 'the rubber suit' the next time.

Aloha

A lot of bodily fluids can fly around in some of our threads. :laugh:

PurpHaze
10-03-2007, 09:30 AM
Nice pics Carson... thanks for sharing. Looks like you're taking your time which will equate to a quality end product. If changes need to be made then you're all set instead of having a jumbled mess to contend with.

Kiril
10-03-2007, 10:20 AM
I'm not sure where your located but metal to plastic transitions require SCH80 in my neck or the woods. At least you went with a male PVC to female copper, the other way around you might run into problems.

Also, if that is a constant pressure mainline near the birch, I would be tempted to cut the roots and install a barrier and/or 3/4 crush to keep them away from the pipe. Mind you, don't go on a root cutting frenzy, but a few roots here and there is not going to hurt, actually may help.

nacarson
10-03-2007, 01:08 PM
That may be possible (I'm about 25mi south of you). However on an audit of installed systems I've never actually seen that - "the works" are out there in my neighbourhood, including a couple of Sch 40 to Galv transitions that are actually dripping rusty water 24/7 :-( - stains the PVC brown - some underground Sch40 to galv inserted into a female PVC 90 and whatnot.

gusbuster
10-04-2007, 12:19 PM
:laugh: I ended up bringing the line depth at the 45 jog up to 12", which is minimum depth required by the city. It ends up being about 16" deep at the house. I'll post some pics in the other thread. On close inspection of the gas line, it does not appear I went through the plastic sleeve, however I did pretty much go all the way through the phone line.
By the way, I thought 48" was the min depth for a gas line, at least that San Mateo County code.

Kiril
10-04-2007, 01:42 PM
By the way, I thought 48" was the min depth for a gas line, at least that San Mateo County code.

That is what I thought too. In places the gas line was at best 24" deep. :cry: