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tthomass
02-18-2007, 07:50 PM
I just tried looking up to see if I need/register a DOT # for my trucks. Only when I went to click on the "who needs one" link it was under construction, great!

Those familar with whats needed........mind sharing some wisdow?

I do landscape/hardscape and would be hauling such materials. At times, as needed, from VA to MD and also from VA to DC. Possibly also picking up material as needed in MD.

Thanks!

Mjh Excavating
02-18-2007, 07:57 PM
Over 10,000 gvw needs a dot #. Interstate travel needs a dot # and possibly apportioned plates, not sure of laws betwween VA and MD. GCWR of truck and trailer over 10,000 needs dot #. Issue gets confusing best to read for yourself. I can barely keep it straight myself. Also 1 number does your whole fleet.

tthomass
02-18-2007, 08:13 PM
I did not know about only 1 number..........sounds good. I'll give them a call tomorrow if I get a chance and see if I can talk to a human. Might have known when I needed to know something the site would be under construction.

Mjh Excavating
02-18-2007, 08:28 PM
Do yourself a favor and wait for the website to come back up. You might get a human on the phone but they don't speak very good English. My experience anyway and that was a couple of times. Sad when you call a US government agency and you wondered if you dialed a different country by mistake. Anyway you can do everything from the website (forms, filing, etc.)

muddstopper
02-18-2007, 08:53 PM
If you are doing interstate commerce, you will need the stickers, even if you only have a S10 pickup truck. Weight isnt the issue here. State rules will vary but the feds say stickers for all motorized vehicles doing buisness in more than one state. If you cross the state line, and they catch you, your vehicle will be impounded until the proper stickers are in place. I dont know how your state does it, but in NC, you can get your numbers online and usually the same day you apply. They will send out a bunch of paperwork to fill out but the numbers are e-mailed to you way before the paperwork reaches your mailbox.

D Felix
02-18-2007, 08:59 PM
Like Mjh said, if you have a truck rated over 10k, you need a DOT number on it. If you have a combination (truck and trailer) rated over 10k, you need a DOT number on the truck. Most 1/2 tons pulling a tandem (and even some singles) will meet that requirement pretty easily. This is all for commercial use. Any Joe-blow homeowner can pull almost any trailer with just about any truck and not need numbers, UNLESS they are doing so for commercial purposes...

Along with the numbers comes annual inspections (of both the trucks AND the trailers!), the need for flares/triangles, and a whole host of other headaches. Not sure about your intrastate travel; I think that's as simple as a change in the code of the numbers. Here in Indiana, the numbers for in-state work are "INDOT XXXXXX". If we worked both in Indiana and Illinios, they would be "USDOT XXXXXX". Not sure about other changes though, and how it is determined that you need the different number...

Good luck. You've jumped into a pool filled with very muddy water, and there's only a very few people who know how to make it clear!

Mjh Excavating
02-18-2007, 09:09 PM
D

Well put about the muddy water.

Kepple Services
02-18-2007, 09:31 PM
Yes you can use the same DOT number for your entire fleet of trucks, you just have to list each one with DOT. If you are using the truck, truck and trailer, or any combination you need to have it posted on the door of your vehicle. I dont normally run my trucks out of state, but I still did USDOT numbers just to make sure I would not have issues later if I had to. I have since driven to Springfield MO a few weeks ago, and all I had to do was get trip and fuel tax permits for the states I traveled through as I don't have aportioned plates on my truck. I was pulled over in Alabama, so they DO check to see if you have what is needed.

If you are going to use the truck for commercial purposes, get DOT numbers. Thats the bottom line. If you travel to other states, then aportioned plates so you can pay even more tax is nessisary as well.

tthomass
02-18-2007, 11:27 PM
Are you saying I have to get an additional inspection on top of the "regular" one for my inspection sticker?

Aportioned plates I know nothing about....????

Companies I worked for in the past had nothing. Lots of trucks of all sizes and nothing DOT at all. I'm starting up work in MD and DC and with spring coming its only going to become more and more. My luck, if I don't get DOT "certified" I'll be the guy pulled over on the side of the road.

D Felix
02-19-2007, 09:02 AM
I don't know what your "regular" inspection sticker is (is it a state-mandated inspection for *all* vehicles?), but the DOT inspection has a common form that must be filled out by a DOT-certified inspector (a lot of normal mechanics can do it, just ask around). After the form is filled out, there is a sticker with it that must be placed on the vehicle. It's good for a year.

Here, we have to get the forms ourselves at about $5 apiece. Any truck stop should have them, or you can call your state DOT and ask where you can order them (I don't remember where off the top of my head, but there is a place).

I don't know anything about the apportioned plates either, other than that's what you see on 99% of the semi-trucks/trailers on the road.

It's not just *any* truck that is used for commercial purposes that must have the numbers. It's any truck or combination that has a total GVWR of 10,001 pounds or more. A single S-10 won't need a number. Niether will a 1/2 ton pickup by itself. But add a tandem trailer (7k) to either truck and you will need the number.

Is the water any more muddy? ;)

Eakern & Dog
02-19-2007, 10:02 AM
http://http://dps.georgia.gov/00/channel_title/0,2094,5635600_54332908,00.html

Here is link to FAQs about this.It is for Georgia and may be similar .You can read until your state's website comes back up if you want.

muddstopper
02-19-2007, 10:08 AM
I get the point about the muddy water, but I suggest some of you actually check your local laws. If you are using a vehicle for commercial purpose, even an S10 pickup truck, and you cross state lines, you will need the DOT numbers to be legal. And I know lots of people that dont have those numbers and havent got caught, But I also very personaly know one person that has an electrical service and drives a 1/2 ton van, and when he crossed the state line with that van, he got a ticket for not having the dot numbers. I have also talked directly to the NCDOT enforcement agency and they verified that to do interstate commerce, you need the numbers, and yes even on trucks weighing less than 10,000lbs. I also know that for the last couple of months, the DMV has been doing nothing but checking specificly for those numbers in my local area. Might be because we are about 10 miles from the Ga. line and less than 20 miles from the Tenn state line the reason they have targeted this area so heavily in the last few months. If you are commercial, and doing interstate commerce, you will need the USDOT numbers.

muddstopper
02-19-2007, 10:23 AM
Here are a few forms you can fill out that will tell you if you need a USDOT number. Maybe this will make the water a little more clear.

https://li-public.fmcsa.dot.gov/LIVIEW/PKG_REGISTRATION.prc_option

D Felix
02-19-2007, 10:29 AM
If you are doing interstate commercial work, yes, you need the numbers regardless of the GVWR. However, if all you are doing is intrastate, then the 10,001 cut-off applies.

weedwoop
02-19-2007, 10:35 AM
Like Mjh said, if you have a truck rated over 10k, you need a DOT number on it. If you have a combination (truck and trailer) rated over 10k, you need a DOT number on the truck. Most 1/2 tons pulling a tandem (and even some singles) will meet that requirement pretty easily. This is all for commercial use. Any Joe-blow homeowner can pull almost any trailer with just about any truck and not need numbers, UNLESS they are doing so for commercial purposes...

Along with the numbers comes annual inspections (of both the trucks AND the trailers!), the need for flares/triangles, and a whole host of other headaches. Not sure about your intrastate travel; I think that's as simple as a change in the code of the numbers. Here in Indiana, the numbers for in-state work are "INDOT XXXXXX". If we worked both in Indiana and Illinios, they would be "USDOT XXXXXX". Not sure about other changes though, and how it is determined that you need the different number...




Good luck. You've jumped into a pool filled with very muddy water, and there's only a very few people who know how to make it clear!

That's one reason I don't have any signs or advertising on my truck. If I get stopped, I'm just joe-blow homeowner.;)

muddstopper
02-19-2007, 10:54 AM
I took the liberty to fill this form out and use Virginia as HQ location. This is the reply you get for a for hire motor carrier that doesnt hual hazardous waste, with all vehichles weighing less than 10,000 lbs and doing interstate commerce.
Operating Authority (MC Number) OP-1

The system has determined that you need to file an OP-1 application for an operating authority (MC number).

Submit this form in order to apply for a:

Certificate or Permit as an interstate for-hire motor carrier of property or household goods
Certificate as a United States-based enterprise owned or controlled by citizens of Mexico providing truck transportation of international cargo or household goods
License to operate as a broker arranging the transportation of property or household goods using regulated carriers.



--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


There is a fee for OP-1 registration.

The fee depends on the number of authorities being requested. An applicant may choose several types of authorities on one form (i.e, common, contract, broker). Each type of authority is $300. Separate fees are required for each type of registration that is requested. If the for-hire applicant requests authority as a motor common carrier and a motor contract carrier, two fees are required (i.e., $600).

Payment is by credit card only (American Express, Discover, MasterCard, Visa).

Pursuant to 49 CFR 360.3(c), fees are not refundable.
After the FMCSA accepts the application or document for filing, the filing fee will not be refunded, regardless of whether the document is granted, approved, denied, rejected, dismissed or withdrawn.

This is your Registration Tracking Number and Personal Identifier (PIN).
Please write them down in case you need to come back and finish this process at a later time (within 30 days).
NOTE: The registration tracking number and PIN are to be used specifically for the registration process only and no other purpose.
Registration Tracking Number: 1592143 Personal Identifier: 7A51WF4X
For Technical Assistance, please call 800-832-5660

And if you are a for hire business, that transports goods across state lines, you are a motor carrier. Just for some more good news, you need these numbers even if you are driving a Yugo to do your business. You place a sign on your car or truck and you need the numbers. I hope the water is much clearer now.

muddstopper
02-19-2007, 11:04 AM
If you are doing interstate commercial work, yes, you need the numbers regardless of the GVWR. However, if all you are doing is intrastate, then the 10,001 cut-off applies.

Dfelix, the guy said up front he was operating in Va and hualing materials to and from MD and Dc. He's interstate.

muddstopper
02-19-2007, 11:11 AM
I also filled out the forms and used intrastate instead of interstate and here is the reply it gave.

Intrastate Non-Hazmat motor carriers and Intrastate Hazmat motor carriers:

The following States have adopted the Federal USDOT marking requirements for Intrastate motor carriers domiciled in Alabama, Alaska, Colorado, Florida, Georgia, Iowa, Kansas, Kentucky, Michigan, Minnesota, New York, Ohio, Oregon, South Dakota, Tennessee, Utah, West Virginia and Wisconsin.

The Intrastate motor carriers within these States are allowed to register online with FMCSA. If your State is not listed above, you do not need to complete this process. However, you may need to register your vehicle(s) with a PRISM State (Performance and Registration Information Systems Management), that handles your IRP plate renewal. For more information regarding your State requirements, please call the FMCSA field office in your State. For a listing of State offices, go to the FMCSA Field Roster web site.

Hazardous materials shippers are not required to obtain a USDOT number and cannot register online.

If you still have questions regarding USDOT numbers, you may call FMCSA support services at 1-800-832-5660.

It would seem that Virgina is one of the states not required to apply for the numbers (intrastate only) since Va isnt on the above list. Sadly, Va might have to register with some other waste of money agency. Anyways the best bet is to just call the number above.

D Felix
02-19-2007, 12:27 PM
Dfelix, the guy said up front he was operating in Va and hualing materials to and from MD and Dc. He's interstate.
Yep, but I wanted to clarify for anyone else who might be reading this. :waving:

d&rlawncare
02-19-2007, 03:51 PM
I get the point about the muddy water, but I suggest some of you actually check your local laws. If you are using a vehicle for commercial purpose, even an S10 pickup truck, and you cross state lines, you will need the DOT numbers to be legal. And I know lots of people that dont have those numbers and havent got caught, But I also very personaly know one person that has an electrical service and drives a 1/2 ton van, and when he crossed the state line with that van, he got a ticket for not having the dot numbers. I have also talked directly to the NCDOT enforcement agency and they verified that to do interstate commerce, you need the numbers, and yes even on trucks weighing less than 10,000lbs. I also know that for the last couple of months, the DMV has been doing nothing but checking specificly for those numbers in my local area. Might be because we are about 10 miles from the Ga. line and less than 20 miles from the Tenn state line the reason they have targeted this area so heavily in the last few months. If you are commercial, and doing interstate commerce, you will need the USDOT numbers.


This is impossible due to the fact the the federal regs ONLY apply to commercial vehicles. The defination of a CMV in the fed regs is a vehicle with a GVWR or GCWR of 10001 and more.

d&rlawncare
02-19-2007, 03:57 PM
http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.asp?rule_toc=759&section=390.5&section_toc=1739

Look at Commercial motor vehicle.... If your not A CMV you dont have to comply with the regs.

muddstopper
02-19-2007, 06:17 PM
This is impossible due to the fact the the federal regs ONLY apply to commercial vehicles. The defination of a CMV in the fed regs is a vehicle with a GVWR or GCWR of 10001 and more.

I believe you are wrong on this. A commercial vehicle is any vehicle used in the interstate or intrastate transportation of goods or services. If your vehicle is used in the actual income produceing part of your business, I think you will find that it qualifies as a commercial vehicle. Your vehicle doesnt have to be over 10,001 lbs to qualify as a commercial vehicle.
Anyway, just fill in the form in the link I provided and it will tell you if your vehicle qualifies for the DOT numbers. Its a federal wedsite and federal form.

d&rlawncare
02-20-2007, 02:15 PM
I believe you are wrong on this. A commercial vehicle is any vehicle used in the interstate or intrastate transportation of goods or services. If your vehicle is used in the actual income produceing part of your business, I think you will find that it qualifies as a commercial vehicle. Your vehicle doesnt have to be over 10,001 lbs to qualify as a commercial vehicle.
Anyway, just fill in the form in the link I provided and it will tell you if your vehicle qualifies for the DOT numbers. Its a federal wedsite and federal form.

Why is it Im wrong? Did you read what it takes to be a CMV in the regs I posted. If your GVWR and/or GCWR is below 10001 then you dont need a DOT number. A TAXI does not need one. Anyways I do this (DOT) for a living and know that you dont need one unless you meet the requirements of being a CMV!

Eclipse
02-20-2007, 03:10 PM
I believe you are wrong on this.

FTR - d&rlawncare works for the state of Michigan enforcing these laws. I personally would not question his statements. He is a wealth of information on these topics and he is gracious enough to take the time to answer questions such as this.

TWUllc
02-20-2007, 03:47 PM
tthomas. If I remmber correctly you just purchased that International. Get yourself a USDOT #, if you plan to take a short stroll through MD, or anyother state. Transit Police are all over here in MD. Aviod the Big time fines.

muddstopper
02-20-2007, 07:36 PM
FTR - d&rlawncare works for the state of Michigan enforcing these laws. I personally would not question his statements. He is a wealth of information on these topics and he is gracious enough to take the time to answer questions such as this.

Eclipse, I am not agreeing or disagreeing with d&r. I said i belive he is mistaken. I also said to fill in the form on the link I provided to see if you need the numbers. I dont care where he works. My vehicles are commercial and have the stickers and this includes my pickup trucks, which is less than 10,0001 lbs. I put the stickers on my trucks because the NCDMV said I am supposed to have them, up front and face to face. They work for the DOT too and are the ones that write the tickets.

This is directly from the website I posted. "Certificate or Permit as an interstate for-hire motor carrier of property or household goods "
It doesnt say a thing about 10,0001lbs., In fact, when I filled in the form, I specifly listed the vehicle at weighing less than 6000lbs.

muddstopper
02-20-2007, 07:48 PM
heres the link again, nobody has to take anybodies word for it, fill in the form and you will know how the rules apply to your situation.
https://li-public.fmcsa.dot.gov/LIVIEW/PKG_REGISTRATION.prc_option

Eclipse
02-20-2007, 08:24 PM
Here is what I got after filling out the form on the link you provided. The information I submitted is as follows: Interstate, motor carrier, non-hazardous, all vehicles under 10k GVWR and here was the reply.

"The Form MCS-150 (USDOT number) is required only for carriers that have large trucks (GVWR of more than 10,000 pounds) or that transport 9 or more passengers. "

I guess here is says trucks with GVWR under 10k do not need a USDOT number.

I'll admit that I did not want to agree with everything d&r was posting when he first joined this forum but I have not yet been able to prove him wrong, even though I was hoping to a few times :) I know he works at enforcing these laws and writing the tickets in the state of Michigan, maybe that makes a difference here? I would not think so since we are talking interstate here but just a thought.

muddstopper
02-20-2007, 10:06 PM
Well, I filled in the form using the same information you just supplied, including the state of mich. and here is what it said.

Operating Authority (MC Number) OP-1

The system has determined that you need to file an OP-1 application for an operating authority (MC number).

Submit this form in order to apply for a:

Certificate or Permit as an interstate for-hire motor carrier of property or household goods
Certificate as a United States-based enterprise owned or controlled by citizens of Mexico providing truck transportation of international cargo or household goods
License to operate as a broker arranging the transportation of property or household goods using regulated carriers.

I aint trying to prove anybody wrong, it is what it is. Interstate, motor carrier, less than 10,000lbs, non-hazardous. = The system has determined that you need to file an OP-1 application for an operating authority (MC number).

Eclipse
02-20-2007, 10:21 PM
Well, I filled in the form using the same information you just supplied, including the state of mich. and here is what it said.

Operating Authority (MC Number) OP-1

The system has determined that you need to file an OP-1 application for an operating authority (MC number).

I think I figured out the difference between why I received the response I did and why you received a different response.

I'm guessing you are checking the for hire box and I am checking the private box.

We, as lawn care and landscape companies, are not for hire companies we are private companies. The definition of a private carrier taken from that site is:

"A private motor carrier transports its own cargo, usually as a part of a business that produces, uses, sells and/or buys the cargo that is being hauled."

Try again with the private box checked and I bet you will get the same response I did.

muddstopper
02-20-2007, 10:33 PM
I havent filled it out as not for hire. Since the guy said he would be transporting goods to and from MD, Va. and DC, I pretty much figured he is for hire. How the DOT actually looks at it, I have no ideal.

Also, an MC number is not the same thing as a usdot number.

Basicly it all boils down to the feds keeping track of who's hualing what and where.

Eclipse
02-20-2007, 10:44 PM
I havent filled it out as not for hire. Since the guy said he would be transporting goods to and from MD, Va. and DC, I pretty much figured he is for hire. How the DOT actually looks at it, I have no ideal.


It appears to me that if they are his goods for his work/services then he classifies as a private carrier.

The definition of a for hire carrier from that site is as follows:
"A for-hire motor carrier transports passengers, regulated property or household goods owned by others for compensation."

Judging by this definition I do not think we are for hire carries.

d&r is this correct?

d&rlawncare
02-20-2007, 11:21 PM
It appears to me that if they are his goods for his work/services then he classifies as a private carrier.

The definition of a for hire carrier from that site is as follows:
"A for-hire motor carrier transports passengers, regulated property or household goods owned by others for compensation."

Judging by this definition I do not think we are for hire carries.

d&r is this correct?

Correct-For hire carriers means you haul OTHER peoples goods. LCO's are private carriers.

DOT numbers are free it dont hurt to get them even if you dont need them.
Thanks for the kind words Eclipse.

If that other guy could send me the number of the people he spoke to I would love to call them and ask them some questions.

muddstopper
02-21-2007, 06:17 PM
You can call the DMV in Asheville NC and talk to the same people I talked to.

AintNoFun
02-21-2007, 08:42 PM
quick question.. whats the IFTA stickers you see on all the big rigs. i tried asking my local dot guys and they look bewildered. we are starting to more and more interstate travel ourselves and was just curious...

snoope
02-21-2007, 09:11 PM
IFTA stickers are for filing fuel taxes....we keep track of our "State" by state miles and file this with our fuel reports in home "Base" state....

We have to run apportioned tags ( plates) to cross state lines with product on.....$$$$

We purchase our fuel both on the road and through a "Jobber' for our office/shop fuel tank....and as such need to pay taxes on all fuel/mpg factors...

I rarely see class 3-5 trucks with fuel stickers but if in doubt check with your registry office...

Snoope back quiet

D Felix
02-21-2007, 11:59 PM
I believe the IFTA stickers are only needed if you are up into the CDL range of vehicles.

It's something we were looking into several years ago when we got the F550 and were thinking of getting our CDL's so we could pull the 12k trailer. To this point, the 12k gets pulled with the SRW F350 and we are legal that way. The F550 only pulls the 7k trailer.

d&rlawncare
02-22-2007, 07:25 AM
quick question.. whats the IFTA stickers you see on all the big rigs. i tried asking my local dot guys and they look bewildered. we are starting to more and more interstate travel ourselves and was just curious...

They have changed ALOT of the rules on this lately. Unless you are a CDL vehicle and do interstate haul for hire business then you do not need it.

They changed the rules and it is very confusing now.

AintNoFun
02-22-2007, 09:36 AM
well we have 2 cdl trucks over 36k gvw that do most of the interstate travel so i guess this is something i should look into. i still need this even if i get my fuel from gas stations?

chuck bow
02-22-2007, 10:36 AM
Let me clarify something in Indiana our numbers look like this
US DOTXXXXXXXX IN All this DOT crap is intimatdating but we are completly legal as of last year at this time

chuck bow
02-22-2007, 10:48 AM
Do a seach on the commercial mowing forum too and you will read for days about DOT numbers In indiana if you are Rated at over 10,000 pounds ( key word RATED) you need DOT numbers . And if you dont believe me go ahead and get pulled over by DOT guys and Gals and see how tickets they write you , each ticket costs a min of 125 bucks and if they are being a pia they can tow your truck and trailer if they want . A buddy of mine got pulled over for no numbers on his truck and he got one ticket and 11 warnings so its true If anyone wants they can pm and i will enlighten you some more

d&rlawncare
02-22-2007, 03:35 PM
Do a seach on the commercial mowing forum too and you will read for days about DOT numbers In indiana if you are Rated at over 10,000 pounds ( key word RATED) you need DOT numbers . And if you dont believe me go ahead and get pulled over by DOT guys and Gals and see how tickets they write you , each ticket costs a min of 125 bucks and if they are being a pia they can tow your truck and trailer if they want . A buddy of mine got pulled over for no numbers on his truck and he got one ticket and 11 warnings so its true If anyone wants they can pm and i will enlighten you some more

Sad but true......

Its not only Indiana. Different states have adopted the Federal Regulations. All of the states have as far as I know. It makes it easier for INTERSTATE travel. And you do not have to be doing INTERSTATE travel to be held to the federal regs. If you are Rated over 10000 single vehicle or combination then you are a CMV.

Once your stopped its very common to have a least 3-10 violations noted.

AintNoFun
02-22-2007, 04:47 PM
dont forget about the medical cards!!

Focal Point Landscapes
02-22-2007, 10:20 PM
d&r - thanks for the info on this and other threads - in addition to the DOT number , where can you find a listing of other requirements? Like triangles , fire extinguisher , logs , inspections , doctors cert , etc I'm referring to the 10k or greater gross combined weight rating .Thanks.

tthomass
02-22-2007, 10:47 PM
I'm gett'n a #, I'll be audited by the police about 90 days later for an instructional follow up on correct record keeping, must have medical card, safety equip. I will be under CDL.

d&rlawncare
02-23-2007, 05:36 PM
d&r - thanks for the info on this and other threads - in addition to the DOT number , where can you find a listing of other requirements? Like triangles , fire extinguisher , logs , inspections , doctors cert , etc I'm referring to the 10k or greater gross combined weight rating .Thanks.

I can put a list together and post it on here. The only other way is to go to the federal site and look up everything. I can give you a list of what we look for on a traffic stop in addition to a list of everything required. I have a church meeting at 6 and then a date with my wife after that. (dont get to many dates anymore). But Ill try and find a time to compile a list sat or sunday.

d&rlawncare
02-23-2007, 05:47 PM
Do a seach on the commercial mowing forum too and you will read for days about DOT numbers In indiana if you are Rated at over 10,000 pounds ( key word RATED) you need DOT numbers . And if you dont believe me go ahead and get pulled over by DOT guys and Gals and see how tickets they write you , each ticket costs a min of 125 bucks and if they are being a pia they can tow your truck and trailer if they want . A buddy of mine got pulled over for no numbers on his truck and he got one ticket and 11 warnings so its true If anyone wants they can pm and i will enlighten you some more

I stopped a guy today for no plate. I did an inspection on his truck/trailer (CDL class A required). He ended up with 8 violations total:

No medical card/no plate/no cert of registration/no warning triangles/inop turn signal on trailer (out of service)/ inop brake lamp/inop stop lamp/discharged fire ext.

I forgot to ask him for his annual inspections.

He walked away with 1 ticket for no trailer registration.

Then we went and picked up a guy on a warrant for a citation I wrote. $9100 overweight. Nothing like walking into a well known engineering/excavating company and arresting the owner in front of his employees.

Wierd thing was I made it out to the company and the judge found out who the owner was and put the warrant in his name.

chuck bow
02-23-2007, 06:02 PM
d and r are you a dot cop or a local i was told by our locals that they couldnt do anything about truck inspections ect and couldnt ck for fire eqx triangles and med card ect i went to him first to find out the regs and he had no clue and he was the chief in our town pop 3000

NMS0219
02-23-2007, 10:07 PM
In NY you now need dot # on ANY vehicle used for commercial reasons. Weight is no longer the sole determing factor. It is now based on the use of the truck. I just got my numbers for my pickups what a joke. It only took 30 mins online, 9 phone calls to six different numbers. And talking to people who have no clue. Got to love the tax dollars hard at work.

d&rlawncare
02-24-2007, 08:22 AM
d and r are you a dot cop or a local i was told by our locals that they couldnt do anything about truck inspections ect and couldnt ck for fire eqx triangles and med card ect i went to him first to find out the regs and he had no clue and he was the chief in our town pop 3000

I am CVSA (Commercial Vehicle Safety Alliance) to inspect CMV's. I use to work for the state and now work for the county. Most locals will have no idea when you ask them. Most will make up stuff to save face and not want to look like they have no idea instead of just admitting it.

d&rlawncare
02-24-2007, 08:25 AM
In NY you now need dot # on ANY vehicle used for commercial reasons. Weight is no longer the sole determing factor. It is now based on the use of the truck. I just got my numbers for my pickups what a joke. It only took 30 mins online, 9 phone calls to six different numbers. And talking to people who have no clue. Got to love the tax dollars hard at work.

If your talking DOT numbers that come from the feds then this is wrong. NY might have a STATE law and be issueing there own numbers(?)

Some states will do that for INTRAstate carriers and it will look like DOT 1153462NY.

Mjh Excavating
02-24-2007, 09:58 AM
If your talking DOT numbers that come from the feds then this is wrong. NY might have a STATE law and be issueing there own numbers(?)

Some states will do that for INTRAstate carriers and it will look like DOT 1153462NY.

The numbers come from the feds. Certain states have now adopted this.
The number reads as you posted. If it is a commercial vehicle used in NY, And some other states, it needs a DOT number, regardless of weight. I did not realize this until I read that post and made a phone call.

snoope
02-24-2007, 11:17 AM
Aintnofun,

I hope this ok...here are the sites for New Jersey...

Iftach.org/index.php just click on NJ....

And for a direct link; Doug.Deacon@Dot.state.NJ.US

You will find their phone # on site...

Good luck and good thinking doing your homework now.....Fines out on the road or "Red Tags" can ruin a day and hurt the weekly $$$...
State I live in has a tremedous crack down on ALL combo-vechiles going on right now.....From our class 8 rigs to 1 tons loaded with material and pulling loaded trailers:nono: :nono: :nono: ....trying to save a few $$ is costing
double or triple $$$...


Snoope back quiet

d&rlawncare
02-24-2007, 01:27 PM
The numbers come from the feds. Certain states have now adopted this.
The number reads as you posted. If it is a commercial vehicle used in NY, And some other states, it needs a DOT number, regardless of weight. I did not realize this until I read that post and made a phone call.

You have to keep apples with apples and oranges with oranges. State laws and Fed laws are different. If The state has adopted the FMCSA then it is still a fed law. The FMCSA states what a commercial vehicle is and that it needs a DOT #. It says it must have a GVWR/GCWR of 10,001 or more. I'm not saying you cant get one for another type of vehicle.

The question originally asked was when do you NEED one.

Now if your state has a STATE law then you have to follow that.

NMS0219
02-24-2007, 01:38 PM
In NY you need one reguardless of weight. NY now says any vehicle used for commercial use needs DOT #. The state does NOT issue them you have to get them throu the fed gov. Safer program. I got mine for intra-state use (only in NY) You apply at safer. Then your "DOT packet" letter telling you about your numbers and laws, and your cheep mailbox numbers is sent to NY state DOT. You have to call the state and request that your packet be sent to you. I was told that because NY state is enacting its own strict DOT # policy the fed gov can not and will not directly mail you your "packet". The catch is that if you apply for inter-state (between states) they mail you your packet direct to your door the same day you apply. If I knew this when I applied I would have just gotten them for inter-state. It would have saved me alot of needles fustration.

d&rlawncare
02-24-2007, 01:54 PM
In NY you need one reguardless of weight. NY now says any vehicle used for commercial use needs DOT #. The state does NOT issue them you have to get them throu the fed gov. Safer program. I got mine for intra-state use (only in NY) You apply at safer. Then your "DOT packet" letter telling you about your numbers and laws, and your cheep mailbox numbers is sent to NY state DOT. You have to call the state and request that your packet be sent to you. I was told that because NY state is enacting its own strict DOT # policy the fed gov can not and will not directly mail you your "packet". The catch is that if you apply for inter-state (between states) they mail you your packet direct to your door the same day you apply. If I knew this when I applied I would have just gotten them for inter-state. It would have saved me alot of needles fustration.

Probably a state law they have that says if your anything commercial you need a DOT number. Thats why the feds wont mail it to you just the state.

Now in my opinion just cause you have a DOT number does not mean you will need the med card/fire ext etc unless you meet that GVWR/GCWR of a CMV that the feds have defined

NMS0219
02-24-2007, 02:06 PM
your right. Here is where the GVWR/GCWR comes into play. If you are above a certin weight you need the med card, fire ext, etc.. Dont hold me to it but I beleive the weight is 12k Could be wrong their. I only have pick ups so thats what I cared about. All I wanted was to be legal so the state would stay off my back and I beleive now I am. That is untill they decide to change the law again and not inform anybody. Just start issueing tickets. Thats how I found out I was illegal. Luckely I got off with a warning for the dot # but did get a ticket for a rusty license plate. (it had rust streaks down it from the bolts holding it to the trailer) Guess they had to issue some kind of ticket after having me in a truck inspection for 2 hours.

chuck bow
02-24-2007, 03:27 PM
Rusty licence plate ?????? Now thats a bunch of crap Just like i said before all they want is our money and they will crawl around on the ground for hrs trying to find something wrong . I do know all this DOT crap and jumping threw there hoops has left a sour taste in mouth

AintNoFun
02-24-2007, 06:09 PM
will do, thanks for the time in researching this for me.... i appreciate it..


Aintnofun,

I hope this ok...here are the sites for New Jersey...

Iftach.org/index.php just click on NJ....

And for a direct link; Doug.Deacon@Dot.state.NJ.US

You will find their phone # on site...

Good luck and good thinking doing your homework now.....Fines out on the road or "Red Tags" can ruin a day and hurt the weekly $$$...
State I live in has a tremedous crack down on ALL combo-vechiles going on right now.....From our class 8 rigs to 1 tons loaded with material and pulling loaded trailers:nono: :nono: :nono: ....trying to save a few $$ is costing
double or triple $$$...


Snoope back quiet

NMS0219
02-25-2007, 07:23 PM
The ticket for a "rusty" license plate was $75 plus the court surcharge of $35

chuck bow
02-25-2007, 07:29 PM
Maybe if they would use better materials they wouldnt freaking rust!!!!!!!!!!! like i said just another way to get more of our hard earned money . Most, not all but most DOT cops around here have a attitude !!!!!! makes you want to just smack them and tell them if they dont like thier job maybe they ought to find a new one or go back to school and learn how to deal with people in a polite manner. When i was a cop 20 years ago if i treated people they way they treat people today i would have been fired and yes i still got a bad taste in my mouth from all this DOT crap and probally alway will

razor1
02-25-2007, 10:32 PM
Sounds like the Feds are getting out of control. Any chance of changing the law(s)? According to a State Cop in MD, this really kicked into high gear (no pun intended) ever since 9/11. Now we all must suffer so the government can keep an eye on everyone. I've been pulled over twice. Not looking foreward to another year with DOT. :cry:

thebobcatkid86
03-02-2007, 11:38 PM
I would just like to say I am taking the low profile route at least for now. My rig is well under 10,000lbs even with the bobcat, I have regular automotive insurance, all my equipment is unmarked and if I ever get pulled over, I'm on my way to help a friend.

Eclipse
03-03-2007, 03:16 AM
I would just like to say I am taking the low profile route at least for now. My rig is well under 10,000lbs even with the bobcat, I have regular automotive insurance, all my equipment is unmarked and if I ever get pulled over, I'm on my way to help a friend.

There is too much to comment on this so I will just leave it alone.

I just hope you are fortunate enough to never have an accident of any sort.

chuck bow
03-03-2007, 06:16 AM
bobcat........... its people like you who are part of the cause why we as lawncutters have to do this not saying your trucks and trailers are junk but some like you who dont comply and get trucks ect inspected are driving unsafe junk down the road i dont have a clue what the gvwr is on the dodge but i bet you would be surprised how close you are to that 10000 mark Also i sure hope you are running your business as a business and not under the table too or as you say taking a low profile. If you are going to be in business run it like a business and comply with the rules and regulations

Mjh Excavating
03-03-2007, 07:35 AM
I would just like to say I am taking the low profile route at least for now. My rig is well under 10,000lbs even with the bobcat, I have regular automotive insurance, all my equipment is unmarked and if I ever get pulled over, I'm on my way to help a friend.

You might want to checkout the DOT website. Apparently you are not to familiar with the new regs. 10,000 lbs has nothing to do with it in OH. DOT does not take ignorance for an excuse. Might want to check out that DOT thread that was going recently.

brocksdiesel
03-03-2007, 09:27 AM
I think the only way in Texas to comply with all the DOT regulations on commercial is to have a full time employee who does nothing but work on the truck and trailers to make it right. THe DOT guys here don't have a clue. I have had them whip out a book over one and a half inches and tell me that that was the laws. When we reach over 26001 lbs we have to have a cdl and puts you in another catagory. I know we need laws to keep people from doing stupid things but DOT has gotten out of touch.

thebobcatkid86
03-03-2007, 07:07 PM
I understand about the CDL at 26,000 but until I found this site I never even knew about the 10,000 BS at all. I just find it a rather shocking iritation. My dads friend does interior finishing and cabinet work with E250/E350 Vans and I have known this guy since I was in diapers and I have never heard him mention anything about any of this DOT BS. For now I am trying to run a zero overhead business. I live at home I keep my loader in my parents garage in a very nice residential district and nobody really cares. So far my the most profit Ive made in any one year with my machine was about $1500. I know you guys cant stand guys like me but I dont have the time, the capital, or the cash flow to make it worth calling it a real business. At least for now. Feel free to PM me over this and I will be glad to tell you about my home life and why I am operating this way.

Eclipse
03-03-2007, 07:32 PM
For now I am trying to run a zero overhead business.

You better sell your equipment then :)

thebobcatkid86
03-03-2007, 08:55 PM
What I meant was minimal overhead business. I managed to pay cash for the machine but now almost two years later it hasnt even come close to paying for itself let alone make me any real profit. I am trying my best to make a go of this and make some money but as of right now my plan isnt working. The last thing I need is more BS complications. Some money that I thought I was going to get to buy some real equipment is now more than likely going to have to pay for someone elses nursing home expenses if things keep going the way they're going. I dont even really have the money to buy an LLC let alone get an accountant or deal with all the tax crap related to that. As of right now its not a real business. Im just a guy who owns a bobcat. And it keeps costing me money. Just last week I had a tire go flat on me and it cost me $150 to have polyurethane sealant put in the tires. Just to give y'all an example.

D Felix
03-03-2007, 09:34 PM
Do we need to have a medical card if all we have is a regular operator's license? Indiana has a chauffer's (medical certificate required) license which *used* to be required for anyone operating a CMV below 26k. They changed that a couple of years ago, and only people who's specific job is to drive is required to have a chauffer's license. So, as a landscaper (I drive, but it's not my primary duty), I don't have to have one. I still do have one as a carry-over from before the rule change, but I don't think I'll keep it when I re-new at the end of the year...

The DOT stuff is a major PITA. How many guys actually have *all* of the MSDS sheets they should have? I'm trying to get everything together, but it's hard to find some of the stuff....

chuck bow
03-03-2007, 09:44 PM
If you got DOT numbers on side of truck like you are supposed to then yes you HAVE to have a medical card and fire equix and breakdown triangles and .. and.... and.. i dont spray or fert so i dont have any product that i buy that requires this all i do is freaking mow so no msds sheets here but as far as DOT stuff iam fully compliant and legal

chuck bow
03-03-2007, 09:46 PM
Bobcatkid sell your skid steer if its not generating and cash flow and its sucking you dry and buy you a good used mower like a walk and make some cash i dont see how anyone could make much cash if all he had was as skid steer and no other landscaping stuff at least you might get a few lawns to cut if ya had a good commercial mower

D Felix
03-03-2007, 09:50 PM
If you got DOT numbers on side of truck like you are supposed to then yes you HAVE to have a medical card and fire equix and breakdown triangles and .. and.... and.. i dont spray or fert so i dont have any product that i buy that requires this all i do is freaking mow so no msds sheets here but as far as DOT stuff iam fully compliant and legal
We've got the triangles, fire extinguishers (need to mount them though...), etc.

You may not spray or fert, but I bet you've got a can or two of gas, mix, diesel (?), bar oil (?), 2-cyle oil, WD40, first aid kit, wasp spray, etc. All of which have MSDS sheets that you *should* have with you.... :nono: :rolleyes:

razor1
03-03-2007, 10:28 PM
Do we need to have a medical card if all we have is a regular operator's license? Indiana has a chauffer's (medical certificate required) license which *used* to be required for anyone operating a CMV below 26k. They changed that a couple of years ago, and only people who's specific job is to drive is required to have a chauffer's license. So, as a landscaper (I drive, but it's not my primary duty), I don't have to have one. I still do have one as a carry-over from before the rule change, but I don't think I'll keep it when I re-new at the end of the year...

The DOT stuff is a major PITA. How many guys actually have *all* of the MSDS sheets they should have? I'm trying to get everything together, but it's hard to find some of the stuff....

From what I understand, anyone operating a "commercial" motor vehicle or vehicle and trailer combined weight that is 10,000 lb. gvw or more needs a medical card and DOT #. They made me get one when I got pulled over and I don't have a CDL. If you can pass a physical, this shouldn't be a problem.

" A person shall not drive a commercial motor vehicle unless he/she is physically qualified to do so and, except as provided in §391.67, has on his/her person the original, or a photographic copy, of a medical examiner's certificate that he/she is physically qualified to drive a commercial motor vehicle."http://www.fmcsa.dot.gov/rules-regulations/administration/fmcsr/fmcsrruletext.asp?section=391.41#49CFR391.41

regl
03-20-2007, 07:42 PM
Like Mjh said, if you have a truck rated over 10k, you need a DOT number on it. If you have a combination (truck and trailer) rated over 10k, you need a DOT number on the truck. Most 1/2 tons pulling a tandem (and even some singles) will meet that requirement pretty easily. This is all for commercial use. Any Joe-blow homeowner can pull almost any trailer with just about any truck and not need numbers, UNLESS they are doing so for commercial purposes...

Along with the numbers comes annual inspections (of both the trucks AND the trailers!), the need for flares/triangles, and a whole host of other headaches. Not sure about your intrastate travel; I think that's as simple as a change in the code of the numbers. Here in Indiana, the numbers for in-state work are "INDOT XXXXXX". If we worked both in Indiana and Illinios, they would be "USDOT XXXXXX". Not sure about other changes though, and how it is determined that you need the different number...

Good luck. You've jumped into a pool filled with very muddy water, and there's only a very few people who know how to make it clear!

http://www.ct.gov/dmv/cwp/view.asp?a=798&Q=244920

Looks like for CT intrastate the magic number is 18,001 lbs.. So here's my question. My truck has a GCWR of 16,000 lbs.. OK so far as I would not go over that combined weight (truck and loaded trailer). However, the trailer has a GVWR of 14,000. So would the DOT go by the GVWR of truck + GVWR of trailer which would put me over, or would they go by GCWR of truck as long as my actual load didn't put me over . Hope this is clear enough.:confused:

D Felix
03-20-2007, 09:09 PM
Is your truck rated at 16,000 a "gross *combined* wieght rating" (GCWR) or "gross *vehicle* wieght rating" (GVWR)? IOW, is it a 16k GCWR, or GVWR. There *is* a difference.

If it's truly a combined rating, then if your trailer was at full capacity (14k) your truck could only wiegh 2k. Good luck with that. :waving: Methinks you've got WAY too much trailer for your truck.

Now if its actually a vehicular rating, then you will be in trouble if you get pulled over for a couple of reasons; 1) Chances are you don't have a CDL, which would be required probably everywhere 2) Doesn't sound like you have the appropriate DOT numndividuabers in the appropriate place on the truck.

Chances are they will go by what the truck is rated for, unless you've got a plate that says it's legal for more. Always figure its the greater of the two between what the truck is rated and what you have it plated for. IOW, if you have a truck rated at 11k (F350 w/ SRW) and have 16,000 pound plates (do other states besides IN have this? For some reason I think so...), then they will go by the 16k it's plated for, rather than the 11k it's rated for. Conversely, if it's the same truck and you have 7k plates, they will go by the 11k rating when figuring all of the DOT necessary crap (but you will be illegal if the truck wieghs more than 7k :rolleyes:).

Is it any less muddy? :waving: I don't know much about CT, but I've got a decent idea on IN, HTH.

haybaler
03-20-2007, 09:17 PM
OMG, this is the most confusing thread I have ever read. I think it completely depends on who pulls you over. Town cops know nothing, staties know nothing but will do anything to make you think they know everything but won't give you a ticket unless your speeding. DOT cops do know every rule, all depends on the mood there in when they pull you over.

I tryed googling different search terms for about 30 minutes and gave up. Can't find anything for state of mass. When you guys are using the term "commercial" do you mean any vehicle that requires a commercial plate, or any vehicle that requires a CDL

haybaler
03-20-2007, 09:21 PM
Is your truck rated at 16,000 a "gross *combined* wieght rating" (GCWR) or "gross *vehicle* wieght rating" (GVWR)? IOW, is it a 16k GCWR, or GVWR. There *is* a difference.

If it's truly a combined rating, then if your trailer was at full capacity (14k) your truck could only wiegh 2k. Good luck with that. :waving: Methinks you've got WAY too much trailer for your truck.

Now if its actually a vehicular rating, then you will be in trouble if you get pulled over for a couple of reasons; 1) Chances are you don't have a CDL, which would be required probably everywhere 2) Doesn't sound like you have the appropriate DOT numndividuabers in the appropriate place on the truck.

Chances are they will go by what the truck is rated for, unless you've got a plate that says it's legal for more. Always figure its the greater of the two between what the truck is rated and what you have it plated for. IOW, if you have a truck rated at 11k (F350 w/ SRW) and have 16,000 pound plates (do other states besides IN have this? For some reason I think so...), then they will go by the 16k it's plated for, rather than the 11k it's rated for. Conversely, if it's the same truck and you have 7k plates, they will go by the 11k rating when figuring all of the DOT necessary crap (but you will be illegal if the truck wieghs more than 7k :rolleyes:).

Is it any less muddy? :waving: I don't know much about CT, but I've got a decent idea on IN, HTH.

As far as I know it is illegal to register your truck for more than it's rated for. if you put heavier springs in it you have to have it inspected and they can actually re-certify the truck for a higher gvw, then you can register it for more.

D Felix
03-20-2007, 09:49 PM
If it's illegal, then there's a LOT of trucks on the road illegally here. We've got 1 or 2 at work that are plated over the GVWR, and there are several more that I can think of off-hand at other places...

snoope
03-20-2007, 09:49 PM
Haybaler,

I know Mass is joining NH and Maine on inspecting EVERYONE....any combo is being pulled and gone over...one tons with equipment trailers to us "Large Cars"....The "Boys" have been at the "Georgetown southbound" off and on for 2 weeks....with their creepers and scales........That means weighing axle weights plus gross,checking for DOT cards and proper license plus looking over the vehicle from front bumper to rear......


Try this link and click on truck section,then permits or "regs"

WWW.mhd.state.ma.us/

You will need adobe to get all the info or call the phone # and ask a real person........I hope this helps......


Snoope back quiet

Greybeard
03-20-2007, 10:22 PM
Haybaler:
You can call the Mass. State Police truck team at 978-369-1004. They are the only ones I would trust for the right answers. Also, there's a paperback book on commercial vehicle operations, available at some, but not all, state police barracks. It's not the commercial driver's license book.
I've been through the process, and here's the bottom line: any truck over 10,000 GVW, like a F350 dually dump, the driver should have a DOT medical card. That's federal rules. In Mass. you can drive a truck up to 26,000 GVW, even with air brakes, and pull a trailer up to 10,000 with a Class D and a med. card. Go one pound over on either, and you need a CDL, B or A, and air brake endorsements if so equipped. If you're properly licensed in Mass. for a 26,000 truck, you're legal in CT or NY,etc., even if their citizens need a CDL for 18,001 lbs. Any truck over 10,000 lbs. should have a fire extinguisher, flares and chock blocks on board. Also MSDS sheets for other chemicals, I hear.
If you cross state lines, you're supposed to have a DOT number, which is free. The rules on hours of operation, logbooks, etc. are too complicated to explain here, but if you're not doing heavy hauling or running far from home, you probably won't need to know them.
If all you're running is the Dodge truck listed in your sig, don't worry about it. I've run my F350 with a box trailer through 20+ states and never had a problem. No lettering on either one maybe makes it look like a racer's rig.
Speaking of trucks, do you have any interest in the 2002 F650? It's still for sale, and not far from you. It's a good truck, and it's legal to drive with a class D.

haybaler
03-21-2007, 07:45 AM
If it's illegal, then there's a LOT of trucks on the road illegally here. We've got 1 or 2 at work that are plated over the GVWR, and there are several more that I can think of off-hand at other places...

well, I guess Massachusetts is a little more strict. One of my trucks was registered for a lower GVW and they sent me a two year plate instead of a one year, then I got a letter in the mail saying my truck was observed as being illegally registered.

regl
03-21-2007, 08:18 AM
Is your truck rated at 16,000 a "gross *combined* wieght rating" (GCWR) or "gross *vehicle* wieght rating" (GVWR)? IOW, is it a 16k GCWR, or GVWR. There *is* a difference.

If it's truly a combined rating, then if your trailer was at full capacity (14k) your truck could only wiegh 2k. Good luck with that. :waving: Methinks you've got WAY too much trailer for your truck.

Now if its actually a vehicular rating, then you will be in trouble if you get pulled over for a couple of reasons; 1) Chances are you don't have a CDL, which would be required probably everywhere 2) Doesn't sound like you have the appropriate DOT numndividuabers in the appropriate place on the truck.

Chances are they will go by what the truck is rated for, unless you've got a plate that says it's legal for more. Always figure its the greater of the two between what the truck is rated and what you have it plated for. IOW, if you have a truck rated at 11k (F350 w/ SRW) and have 16,000 pound plates (do other states besides IN have this? For some reason I think so...), then they will go by the 16k it's plated for, rather than the 11k it's rated for. Conversely, if it's the same truck and you have 7k plates, they will go by the 11k rating when figuring all of the DOT necessary crap (but you will be illegal if the truck wieghs more than 7k :rolleyes:).

Is it any less muddy? :waving: I don't know much about CT, but I've got a decent idea on IN, HTH.



The 16,000 lbs. is gross combined weight rating for the truck( Chevy 2500hd ). The GVWR is 9800 lbs. so in any event I am under CDL. The trailer is a 14 foot dump with a GVWR of 13,800. I needed a 14' trailer to haul my small tractor and at that length I could only find these heavy duty one's. The trailer will never be loaded to the max with this truck. Never more than 8 or 9 thousand total trailer + load. So I guess what I need to know is, does the DOT go by your ratings or do they go by what you weigh on the scales? Is it illegal to haul an empty trailer if it's GVWR is to high? Gee, I kinda wish I never found this thread!!:dizzy:

d&rlawncare
03-21-2007, 08:21 AM
As far as I know it is illegal to register your truck for more than it's rated for. if you put heavier springs in it you have to have it inspected and they can actually re-certify the truck for a higher gvw, then you can register it for more.

INCORRECT...

d&rlawncare
03-21-2007, 08:27 AM
The 16,000 lbs. is gross combined weight rating for the truck( Chevy 2500hd ). The GVWR is 9800 lbs. so in any event I am under CDL. The trailer is a 14 foot dump with a GVWR of 13,800. I needed a 14' trailer to haul my small tractor and at that length I could only find these heavy duty one's. The trailer will never be loaded to the max with this truck. Never more than 8 or 9 thousand total trailer + load. So I guess what I need to know is, does the DOT go by your ratings or do they go by what you weigh on the scales? Is it illegal to haul an empty trailer if it's GVWR is to high? Gee, I kinda wish I never found this thread!!:dizzy:

We go by your RATINGS. Section 390.5 of the federal regs gives the definition of commercial motor vehicle. GVWR or GCWR is 10,001 or more. And yes for those of you who dont know combination does include your truck and trailer. These rating are located on the VIN tags and have nothing to do with what your plated for or your actual weight.

haybaler
03-21-2007, 10:05 AM
INCORRECT...

ok, that's helpfull. maybe your laws are different, but in Massachusetts you can't register a vehicle for more than it's rated GVW.

d&rlawncare
03-21-2007, 06:56 PM
ok, that's helpfull. maybe your laws are different, but in Massachusetts you can't register a vehicle for more than it's rated GVW.

So your saying if my truck is rated at 9900 pounds I cant even register it for more than that? What if I am pulling my 12,000 GVWR trailer behind it? I am sure our plate system is different here in MI because our commercial plates (EGVW) start at 24,000.

haybaler
03-22-2007, 08:25 AM
So your saying if my truck is rated at 9900 pounds I cant even register it for more than that? What if I am pulling my 12,000 GVWR trailer behind it? I am sure our plate system is different here in MI because our commercial plates (EGVW) start at 24,000.

the GVWR has nothing to do with your trailer or how much you can pull. I'ts the maximum weight your truck can be with a load. just like you can't put a 7000 pound tractor on a 7000GVW trailer because you add the weight of the trailer and your overloaded

d&rlawncare
03-22-2007, 08:29 AM
the GVWR has nothing to do with your trailer or how much you can pull. I'ts the maximum weight your truck can be with a load. just like you can't put a 7000 pound tractor on a 7000GVW trailer because you add the weight of the trailer and your overloaded

Okay but you said you cant register a vehicle for more than the GVW rated. This means that if my truck is rated for 9900 pounds then I cannot register it for more than that.

d&rlawncare
03-22-2007, 08:51 AM
ok, that's helpfull. maybe your laws are different, but in Massachusetts you can't register a vehicle for more than it's rated GVW.

http://www.mass.gov/legis/laws/mgl/90-19.htm

It refers to your trailer GVWR. So you are right in MA. I think I misread what you orginally said.

In MI they dont care what your vehicle is rated for. As long as you dont exceed the legal axle weights set by state law your fine. I wish MI would say you also cant exceed the GVWR's. It only makes since. I can stop someone with a loaded trailer that has a GVWR of 9900 pounds and they have a 15,000 pound skid steer on it. As long as the axles are not overweight then there is nothing I can do about it besides tell them if they get in an accident they are screwed because some lawyer will rip them apart in court. I have always noted in my accident reports when someone has exceeded the GVWR. Its important because the vehilce was not made to handle the weight they have put on it.

haybaler
03-22-2007, 09:17 AM
Okay but you said you cant register a vehicle for more than the GVW rated. This means that if my truck is rated for 9900 pounds then I cannot register it for more than that.

Right, that's the law in massachusetts for a standard commercial plate. A farm plate has no weight restriction, but lots of other restrictions like how far and where you can travel with it. i'm sure there are states with different plates that may override the truck gvw, but I don't know the laws of every state. it gets extremely complicated especailly with interstate travel because sometimes you go by your state laws and sometimes by there's. all depends what state your registered in and what state your traveling to. it's easy for the big trucking company's because they can register there trucks and trailers in whatever state is convenient for them. once you start trying to apply those laws to us little guys we get screwed.