Dethatching

[Prasino]

I have a customer that wants me to thatch his lawn. There is a good amount of thatch, but I told him that I usually thatch lawns in the fall so i can seed them. Would it be advisible to thatch now in the summer? Could any problems occur to the lawn after it is thatched? Would seed germinate this time of year?

[Eric ELM]

First of all, did you put down Pre M on this lawn? That will make a difference if it will germinate or not. Spring or Fall is the best time for this.

[Prasino]

I do not apply any chemicals on this lawn.

[Eric ELM]

I guess I should of asked, did he or anyone put down any Pre M on this lawn. :)

If not and the seed is kept wet, it will germinate, but it will need to be kept wet until the seed gets roots deep enough to keep growing. Spring and Fall is the best time, but if he still wants it done now, don't give him a guarantee that it will grow. It's up to him to keep it wet enough after you do the job.

[Prasino]

Thanks alot Eric for your response. I just recieved a call from him telling me that he wants to go ahead and do it, he just wants to get that thatch out!!!

[JLC]

Thatching like aerating will damage the turf in order to get a benefit. It needs to be getting rain to allow it to recover. We are extremely dry here right now and I wouldn't do any turf stress inducing operations (aerating, thatching, etc.) until the grass is growing again. I don't know what your conditions are like or if your customer would be willing to water, but he could get a normally beneficial operation done and actually have his lawn look worse. I've always heard that we should get several weeks of normal growth after these stressful operations.

[Eric ELM]

From what I've heard, out in his area they have had rain.

We are very dry here too, this is the worst dry spell we have had here in a few years. :(

[JLC]

I second you on that one Eric. Dry as a bone.

[Daleman]

I know that thatch is the layer of dead grass laying on ground, but how do you guys get rid of this stuff?

[CMerLand]

Yep Eric,

Rains have been pretty consistent here since that april/may dry spell but I still wouldnt dethatch the lawn now. The weather in NJ can change in a day, from the mid 90s last week to highs only in the 70s this week. That steady rain can go away real fast with a change in the jet stream, and August can be a bear.

I would tell the guy to wait until mid-august early september which is the ideal time here to renovate a lawn. Id would try to educate the guy on this to avoid problems later when the seed didnt grow in like he expected.

CMerLand

[kutnkru]

We have been fortunate enough as well to have had the rains periodically throughout the weeks past. The seasonably cooler temperatures have helped with the germination rate of seedlings too.

If your weather patterns have been similar to ours (Upstate NY) I would think that you could get away with it. I too like to wait until Mid-September preferrably.

I also agree that if they are not paying you to water the lawns or allowing you to set up timers to do so, that you should not guarantee the job.

We installed four new lawns by seed these pasttwo weeks, and have yet to have problems getting the seed to germinate. :D

Just my nickle.
Kris

[Esby]

With our way above average spring in the rain fall aspect we were hoping for a slight dry spell. Well, we got what we asked for, only its TOO DRY NOW! Hoping to get some rain Sunday/Monday, but you know how that goes.

[Cleve]

Originally posted by Daleman
I know that thatch is the layer of dead grass laying on ground, but how do you guys get rid of this stuff?
To be correct, the term would be De-thatch. I use a Jacobsen machine that literally flails the ground with rectangular shaped pieces of metal mounted on shafts. Works like a charm and will really clean a lawn if done properly. It does do some minor damage to the turf that is healthy but I've never had any problem with it recovering. I have never done a customers yard this time of year but have done mine. And I didn't have to reseed afterwards. It was just to remove a heavy buildup of thatch in some areas. If the machine is used correctly it usually won't remove too much healthy turf anyway. If I'm going to reseed I lower the machine to actually cut into the dirt a little. Makes a perfect bed for reseeding.
You will be suprised how much thatch comes to the surface after using one of these machines. More work getting up the removed thatch than pushing the machine over it. I usually use my Walker mower as a vacumn cleaner to pick it up.
Cleve.

[smburgess]

Unless the lawn is irrigated, no way in the world would I WASTE seed this time of year.

[kturner]

What about this vacuum I've been hearing about? Anyone use that for dethatching?

If so, how much damage does that do to the turf?

:confused:

[peewee]

I visited the website for so-green fertilizer looking for info on their weed and feed product and was surprised to read that they do NOT encourage de-thatching at all, only aeration.Does anyone have a comment on this?

[EJK2352]

I third you Eric. We are super dry here. I only have 2 accounts that will be needing cut next week. Glad I sold those hedge
trimming & mulching jobs when I did. ED

[CMerLand]

PeeWee,

Have only thatched two lawns in 11 years and both of those we took over from chemlawn. Thatch is a naturally occuring process of turf and 1/4 to under 1/2 inch is actually desirable in that it helps moderate soil temperatures, provides the bounce and cushion when you walk acrossed it, and helps reduce weed growth by preventing seed to soil contact.

Thatch is not caused by grass clippings. It is the dead crown, stem and roots that occur as plants die out as they naturally do only to be replaced by new ones. In a good growing enviroment, the soil microbes break this thatch down relatively quickly keeping the lawn healthy and the thatch layer manageable.

However, repeated heavy nitrogen applications without concern for the overall soil chemistry will produce far more thatch that the soil organisms can process, creating an excessive thatch layer. In addition, when the soil chemistry is total out of whack there are fewer organisms to do the job.

Aeration is helpful as it reduces soil compaction, and also throws thousands of soil cores throughout the lawn putting these soil microbes on top of the thatch as well as below it. This will help break down the thatch faster and improve the overall condition of the turf. It also doesnt stress the healthy turf nearly as much as dethatching. It can be once or twice a year and if you then topdress with some organic compost you can quickly replenish the soil microbe population.

One last thought. Not all grasses generate the same amount of thatch. Up here in NJ Bluegrass produces far more thatch then perennial ryegrass or fescue.

CMerLand

[awm]

i only thatch if there is a carpet of thatch 1/8 or more thick.
i find that when most homeowners want their dethatched
they havnt seen thatch but been reading to much.
light aeriation would be my preference.
preferably in fall or spring. later now