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Canon Landscaping
02-21-2007, 09:22 PM
I read this in the local newspaper gm is trying to purchase chrysler and all of it's brands anyone else hear this or have any info on this?

mrusk
02-21-2007, 09:36 PM
Gm and Diamler Benz are in talks. Thats all we know.

mojob
02-21-2007, 09:52 PM
I just hope they don't mess with the dodge truck design. GM trucks are getting fuglier every year and I've always been a GM fan.

bigmudder77
02-22-2007, 09:41 AM
if gm does buy dodge then i will have to start buying ford i hate gm every one i have owned broke down so much i put more money in to it than it was worth. and there hard to fix if you never fixed one before.

when i got my dodge every one said the transmission was gonna blow up on me well (dont take care of it and it will) its still the same one and it drives and still shifts fine and the best part was i had it for 2 years and all i replaced was the wheel hubs, brake lines, axle bearing, and 2 sets of tires (drive it like you stole it) tires go fast 114,000 and still going

This chevy i bought i tried to drive it a little hard and shot a piston out the block and locked the transmission in 4th and it only had 76,000 on it had to sell it with the blown motor and a locked up transmission. after that i only bought one more chevy and it took so much to get it going and it was only a 1992 but it keep staling out all the time like it didnt get enough gas then it would get to much some thing in the computer was messed up so i parted it out to at least get a little more than i paid for it

lawn guy1350
02-22-2007, 11:18 PM
havent heard that one, but i hope its not true!

RedMax Man
02-23-2007, 03:14 PM
GM better not ruin Dodge truck's good looks and quality.

lawn guy1350
02-23-2007, 04:23 PM
yeh their quality already isnt that good...lol! but they do have good looks.

DodgeRam1985
03-05-2007, 02:21 AM
I've heard this too, but I doubt the credibilty of it now. Chrysler is posting some good numbers now, and there are rumors of greater and better things to come.

Gravel Rat
03-05-2007, 02:41 AM
I seen somewhere a autoparts supplier from Canada is looking into buying Chrysler from the Germans.

I doubt the gov't is going to bail Chrysler out again if they didn't do it the first time there would only be Ford Chev and GMC in the North American made trucks.

Harrington Landscape
03-05-2007, 09:56 AM
I hope not look at the cummins 0 recalls Gm had like 10-20 on the motor and Ford had over 60 dont mess with the dodge and that is from my shop guy who works on fords and and the big rigs .

Sydenstricker Landscaping
03-05-2007, 10:42 AM
Im sure cummins had some recalls. Dont hand me that line of sh*t that everything but cummins had some sort of recall

grassmanak
03-05-2007, 10:42 AM
im not sure if its true but i heard that GM is buying dodge because its cheaper to destroy all of the dodge truck to melt down the steel, then it is to buy new steel. Maybe someone was lying to me

Harrington Landscape
03-05-2007, 10:53 AM
that post was only on a motor. on other things on a truck i am sure they did.

GreenN'Clean
03-05-2007, 11:03 AM
I know Chrysler is shutting down one of its biggest manufacturing plants in Newark DE and there are rumors they already made a deal to merge with GM

TXNSLighting
03-05-2007, 02:12 PM
come on, 0 recalls? why would you say that? thats just stupid...the 05's and 06's have had several recalls. and the 03's had a bunch of recalls. so dont open your mouth unless you have facts.

TXNSLighting
03-05-2007, 02:13 PM
I know Chrysler is shutting down one of its biggest manufacturing plants in Newark DE and there are rumors they already made a deal to merge with GM

man thats not good...

Gravel Rat
03-05-2007, 02:31 PM
Thats what happens when you have the overseas trucks like Toyota moving into the market.

thebobcatkid86
03-05-2007, 02:47 PM
But the thing is Toyota doesnt have anything to even really compete with the 3/4ton F250 GM/Dodge 2500 class. Let alone a full one ton or bigger. Call me treasonous but from what I keep hearing about reliability and such, if toyota made a 1 ton dually I might have to consider it.

WildRidge
03-05-2007, 02:52 PM
I think it will be interesting if ford and navistar don't get their lawsuit worked out, and GM buys Dodge, GM could be the leader in the truck/diesel industry. Who knows maybe they will hook the Cummins up to the Allison, that would be a nice power house set-up.

Sydenstricker Landscaping
03-05-2007, 03:17 PM
My grandfather has a cummins hooked to an allison tranny in his motorhome. That thing weighs 15 tons loaded, and that combo has no issue rolling it down the road.

MarcSmith
03-05-2007, 03:22 PM
http://money.cnn.com/2007/02/22/news/companies/gm_chrysler/index.htm

this came out last week..... I havenot heard much since....

GreenN'Clean
03-05-2007, 04:01 PM
The plant closing in Newark DE is putting a lot of people out of a job. So much for Bush's statement that the economy is booming and employment is up. There will be close to 10,000 jobs being lost in 3 different states from chrysler

Tim Wright
03-05-2007, 05:39 PM
The plant closing in Newark DE is putting a lot of people out of a job. So much for Bush's statement that the economy is booming and employment is up. There will be close to 10,000 jobs being lost in 3 different states from chrysler

One plant from one company in one location, and you want to throw it back on a national economy. What about factoring in sloppy management (not that I know of any with Diamler) or any other factors. Even if it where the entire company, and it looks like it is, you cannot simply blame the economy, or democrates or the replublicans off the cuff like that.

That statement is just loose thinking.

Tim

Tim Wright
03-05-2007, 05:40 PM
im not sure if its true but i heard that GM is buying dodge because its cheaper to destroy all of the dodge truck to melt down the steel, then it is to buy new steel. Maybe someone was lying to me

Now this is funny!!!!!!

Tim

LawnScapers of Dayton
03-05-2007, 05:56 PM
The plant closing in Newark DE is putting a lot of people out of a job. So much for Bush's statement that the economy is booming and employment is up. There will be close to 10,000 jobs being lost in 3 different states from chrysler


Like this is the first time this has happened in the last 5 years. The problem is the unions not the goverment.... Walk through a plant sometime and see how many guys are sleeping and watching movies while they are making $30+ an hour. That is why American co. are moving jobs out of country. I have seen it first hand and I have a friend that brags about how many movies he watches at work in a GM plant.....

THey have buried themselves....

By the way I am a member of a union also.......

MarcSmith
03-05-2007, 05:59 PM
the economy is in the the tank. with fuel prices being as high as they are(they do deserve to be there) everything else has gone up in price, but salaries are not keeping up. and since peoples income has less value, things like new cars, new houses and other big ticket items just are not on peoples mind right now. that 5 year old taurus might go another couple years. I know my 2000 montana at 70Kmiles has a lot of life left in it....hopefully 4 more years....

Our economyis justnot our own any more. look what happened in china...and how it affects us.....

It woudl be a bad move for GM.....they are already in the tank, the last thing they need to do is assume more debt and stagnat sales.

MarksTLC
03-05-2007, 07:11 PM
I sure hope not. But one never know. Chrysler has been putting out some great numbers so far. Anythings possible...

GreenN'Clean
03-05-2007, 08:18 PM
To many people don't want to face the fact that BUSH has destroyed our economy. There has been more jobs that has went over seas on Bush's watch then all the other Presidents combined. Bush's so called free trade has killed America. All the manufacturing jobs are mainly over seas hell look at the tag in the back of your shirt its all made in china etc. This isn't the first big plant that is closing since Bush has been in office. Look at Zenith it used to be the Largest TV manufacture in the United States but 3 of there biggest plants has closed in the past 6 years due to China Importing there TV's cheaper. The cars,trucks etc are being made overseas and being sold here cheaper then what Americans can Build them and its breaking down the automobile industries. I knew someone who was a hirer up inside the Chrysler Company in DE and he talked about this day coming for the past 3 years. He said within the next 5 years every automobile manufacturer in the United States will merge with a foreign car builder just to survive in the market due to the fair trade agreements that have been allowed by the Bush Admin.

snoope
03-05-2007, 10:17 PM
WOW,

Green, have you checked who owns Chrysler now....BENZ..who are they ???:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: You friend is hiding true facts from you..Who brought "Mitsu" into this country when they could not build a 4 banger..???

Like it or not...We are in a world economy..deal with it....You want to keep jobs and production here....insist on quality backed with warranties that actually mean something....not just toss it and give you a new one....

GM is in no position to buy anyone....Ford is about to sell Aston/Martin and Jaguar has been for sale....

Final note......Do not blame just the "White House"..try the folks in your home state...Texas ,Kentucky and a few others are getting $$$$$ auto plants built in their backyards due to PUBLIC involvement, not all of this "Finger pointing" and constant crying....and why are the "Big Three" building in Mexico or Canada.to save your "Buddies " job..????

They way I was taught,if your not part of the solution then you just made the problem one person larger:waving: :waving:

Snoope back quiet

Cracker Station
03-05-2007, 11:05 PM
To many people don't want to face the fact that BUSH has destroyed our economy. There has been more jobs that has went over seas on Bush's watch then all the other Presidents combined. Bush's so called free trade has killed America. All the manufacturing jobs are mainly over seas hell look at the tag in the back of your shirt its all made in china etc. This isn't the first big plant that is closing since Bush has been in office. Look at Zenith it used to be the Largest TV manufacture in the United States but 3 of there biggest plants has closed in the past 6 years due to China Importing there TV's cheaper. The cars,trucks etc are being made overseas and being sold here cheaper then what Americans can Build them and its breaking down the automobile industries. I knew someone who was a hirer up inside the Chrysler Company in DE and he talked about this day coming for the past 3 years. He said within the next 5 years every automobile manufacturer in the United States will merge with a foreign car builder just to survive in the market due to the fair trade agreements that have been allowed by the Bush Admin.
Sorry to burst ya bubble BUUDDDD, but didn't Clinton sign the North American Free Trade Aggreement? Bush Inherited it.

ksss
03-06-2007, 01:32 AM
I like your words Snoope.:drinkup:

Grassmechanic
03-06-2007, 10:37 AM
Sorry to burst ya bubble BUUDDDD, but didn't Clinton sign the North American Free Trade Aggreement? Bush Inherited it.

Clinton also granted China Most Favored Nation trading status. Another fact that they like to overlook.:waving:

jpmako
03-06-2007, 10:48 AM
From what I have read GM is buying Just the Dodge line of trucks and is supposedly keeping them the way that they are for now and is going to market them as their Solid Front Axle vehicles. Also Sterling is marketing a truck right now that appears to be a re-badged Dodge pick-up http://forums.motortrend.com/70/6229706/the-general-forum/new-sterling-pickup/

Ford is soon to be looking for a new engine manufacturer and has considered Cummins, and Cat

And all of you GM Duramax lovers like myself I have recently heard that Deere is developing a motor for GM trucks in order to meet future federal emissions standards. Would'nt that be cool:)

These are all things that I have read and or heard so don't bash me for being the messenger.

Tim Wright
03-06-2007, 10:51 AM
Sorry to burst ya bubble BUUDDDD, but didn't Clinton sign the North American Free Trade Aggreement? Bush Inherited it.

Exactly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Tim

Thib
03-06-2007, 11:07 AM
come on, 0 recalls? why would you say that? thats just stupid...the 05's and 06's have had several recalls. and the 03's had a bunch of recalls. so dont open your mouth unless you have facts.

I have a 06 dodge ram 2500 heavy duty with the 5.9 cummins and there are no recalls on the 06.

MarcSmith
03-06-2007, 11:34 AM
I have a 06 dodge ram 2500 heavy duty with the 5.9 cummins and there are no recalls on the 06.

here is a two pages of TSBs for all dodge trucks..
http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2006-index.htm

a few dodge recalls on the 2500 mega cab... they are failry new, sot it may take some time until you get the notice....Hopefullt your wheel bearings wont freeze up and your abs will work fint until then....

Click here to find out more!
2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Mega Cab 4X4 LARAMIE Select Different Vehicle
3 Recall Notices
These recall notices may not apply to all vehicles. Please contact your dealer for more details or contact the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's Auto Safety hotline at 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236).

Campaign Number: 07V038000 Date: 2007-Feb-12

Component: Suspension: Front: Wheel Bearing
Defect Summary: ON CERTAIN PICKUP TRUCKS, THE FRONT WHEEL BEARING MAY HAVE RECEIVED AN INSUFFICIENT QUANTITY OF GREASE DURING THE MANUFACTURING PROCESS.
Consequence Summary: THIS COULD RESULT IN BEARING DEGRADATION, AND IF SUBSEQUENT NOISE AND VIBRATION ARE IGNORED, COULD RESULT IN HUB ASSEMBLY SEPARATION. THIS MAY RESULT IN A LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL AND CAUSE A CRASH WITHOUT WARNING.
Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE FRONT HUB AND BEARING UNITS. THE RECALL BEGAN ON FEBRUARY 26, 2007. OWNERS MAY CONTACT DAIMLERCHRYSLER AT 1-800-853-1403.

Campaign Number: 06E023000 Date: 2006-Mar-13

Component: Exterior Lighting: Headlights
Defect Summary: CERTAIN ANZO COMBINATION HEADLAMP ASSEMBLIES SOLD AS REPLACEMENT LAMPS FOR USE ON CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES. SOME COMBINATION LAMPS ARE NOT EQUIPPED WITH AMBER SIDE REFLECTORS WHICH FAIL TO CONFORM TO FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARD NO. 108, "LAMPS, REFLECTIVE DEVICES, AND ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT.”
Consequence Summary: WITHOUT THE AMBER REFLECTORS, THE VEHICLE WILL BE POORLY ILLUMINATED, POSSIBLY RESULTING IN A VEHICLE CRASH.
Corrective Summary: ANZO WILL NOTIFY OWNERS AND REPLACE THE HEADLAMPS FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL BEGAN MAY 9, 2006. OWNERS MAY CONTACT ANZO USA AT 909-468-3688.

Campaign Number: 06V038000 Date: 2006-Feb-09

Component: Service Brakes, Hydraulic: Antilock: Control Unit/module
Defect Summary: ON CERTAIN PICKUP TRUCKS EQUIPPED WITH FOUR-WHEEL ANTILOCK BRAKE SYSTEMS (ABS), THE ABS ELECTRONIC CONTROL UNIT (ECU) MAY CAUSE A LOSS OF FRONT TO REAR BRAKE BALANCE, AND THE REAR BRAKES COULD LOCK UP PREMATURELY DURING CERTAIN BRAKING CONDITIONS.
Consequence Summary: THIS COULD RESULT IN A LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL AND CAUSE A CRASH WITHOUT WARNING.
Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE ABS ECU. THE RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN DURING THE WEEK OF JULY 17, 2006. OWNERS MAY CONTACT DAIMLERCHRYSLER AT 1-800-853-1403.

Thib
03-06-2007, 11:48 AM
here is a two pages of TSBs for all dodge trucks..
http://dodgeram.info/tsb/2006-index.htm

a few dodge recalls on the 2500 mega cab... they are failry new, sot it may take some time until you get the notice....Hopefullt your wheel bearings wont freeze up and your abs will work fint until then....

Click here to find out more!
2006 Dodge Ram 2500 Mega Cab 4X4 LARAMIE Select Different Vehicle
3 Recall Notices
These recall notices may not apply to all vehicles. Please contact your dealer for more details or contact the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration's Auto Safety hotline at 1-888-DASH-2-DOT (1-888-327-4236).

Campaign Number: 07V038000 Date: 2007-Feb-12

Component: Suspension: Front: Wheel Bearing
Defect Summary: ON CERTAIN PICKUP TRUCKS, THE FRONT WHEEL BEARING MAY HAVE RECEIVED AN INSUFFICIENT QUANTITY OF GREASE DURING THE MANUFACTURING PROCESS.
Consequence Summary: THIS COULD RESULT IN BEARING DEGRADATION, AND IF SUBSEQUENT NOISE AND VIBRATION ARE IGNORED, COULD RESULT IN HUB ASSEMBLY SEPARATION. THIS MAY RESULT IN A LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL AND CAUSE A CRASH WITHOUT WARNING.
Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE FRONT HUB AND BEARING UNITS. THE RECALL BEGAN ON FEBRUARY 26, 2007. OWNERS MAY CONTACT DAIMLERCHRYSLER AT 1-800-853-1403.

Campaign Number: 06E023000 Date: 2006-Mar-13

Component: Exterior Lighting: Headlights
Defect Summary: CERTAIN ANZO COMBINATION HEADLAMP ASSEMBLIES SOLD AS REPLACEMENT LAMPS FOR USE ON CERTAIN PASSENGER VEHICLES. SOME COMBINATION LAMPS ARE NOT EQUIPPED WITH AMBER SIDE REFLECTORS WHICH FAIL TO CONFORM TO FEDERAL MOTOR VEHICLE SAFETY STANDARD NO. 108, "LAMPS, REFLECTIVE DEVICES, AND ASSOCIATED EQUIPMENT.”
Consequence Summary: WITHOUT THE AMBER REFLECTORS, THE VEHICLE WILL BE POORLY ILLUMINATED, POSSIBLY RESULTING IN A VEHICLE CRASH.
Corrective Summary: ANZO WILL NOTIFY OWNERS AND REPLACE THE HEADLAMPS FREE OF CHARGE. THE RECALL BEGAN MAY 9, 2006. OWNERS MAY CONTACT ANZO USA AT 909-468-3688.

Campaign Number: 06V038000 Date: 2006-Feb-09

Component: Service Brakes, Hydraulic: Antilock: Control Unit/module
Defect Summary: ON CERTAIN PICKUP TRUCKS EQUIPPED WITH FOUR-WHEEL ANTILOCK BRAKE SYSTEMS (ABS), THE ABS ELECTRONIC CONTROL UNIT (ECU) MAY CAUSE A LOSS OF FRONT TO REAR BRAKE BALANCE, AND THE REAR BRAKES COULD LOCK UP PREMATURELY DURING CERTAIN BRAKING CONDITIONS.
Consequence Summary: THIS COULD RESULT IN A LOSS OF VEHICLE CONTROL AND CAUSE A CRASH WITHOUT WARNING.
Corrective Summary: DEALERS WILL REPLACE THE ABS ECU. THE RECALL IS EXPECTED TO BEGIN DURING THE WEEK OF JULY 17, 2006. OWNERS MAY CONTACT DAIMLERCHRYSLER AT 1-800-853-1403.

I don't have the mega cab. That was just on the 06 made before march of 06. Yes dodge does mess up sometimes but I see a lot more GM and FORD recalls than dodge. I don't see recalls on the cummins engine.

Total.Lawn.Care
03-06-2007, 12:15 PM
My grandfather has a cummins hooked to an allison tranny in his motorhome. That thing weighs 15 tons loaded, and that combo has no issue rolling it down the road.

If this is true, he would need a CDL to drive it. 30,000 lbs motor coach. Probably more like 15,000 lbs.

MarcSmith
03-06-2007, 12:19 PM
I don't have the mega cab. That was just on the 06 made before march of 06. Yes dodge does mess up sometimes but I see a lot more GM and FORD recalls than dodge. I don't see recalls on the cummins engine.


Remeber, TSB's are just voluntary recalls.......take alook at that page. The engine is only part of the vehicle. You can have the best engine, but put a crappy truck around it, and you still got a crappy truck...

Total.Lawn.Care
03-06-2007, 12:28 PM
Sorry to burst ya bubble BUUDDDD, but didn't Clinton sign the North American Free Trade Aggreement? Bush Inherited it.

Clinton also granted China Most Favored Nation trading status. Another fact that they like to overlook.:waving:

Glad that someone other than me picked up on this. That is the problm with America and the Media. No-one notices anything until it starts affecting the economy. Then, everyone blames the current president, not researching which one actually started the ball rolling.

MarcSmith
03-06-2007, 12:28 PM
If this is true, he would need a CDL to drive it. 30,000 lbs motor coach. Probably more like 15,000 lbs.

If hes not driving for commercial use he doens't need a CDL....

My dad has a cat with allison tranny pusher, air brakes...nicer than my first house. No CDL. 32K gvrw

I don't agree with it, but thats the law, at least in Florida...

When Imoved up from Florida I rended at 26' uhual with airbrakes, it was around 30k as well...no CDL....

ksss
03-06-2007, 04:04 PM
I am surprised that GM would be seriously buying anything. I would also be surprised that the Germans would sell off what has to be one of their bigger money makers (that is only an assumption) in the Chrysler family. Considering the marketshare that Dodge and Gm would have in the truck market I wonder whether the FTC would allow such a merger. Maybe with some of the imports entering into the large pickup market it might make it more possible. Should Ford end up with a Cummins in the near furture that cant be good for the resale of the newly released 6.4L. I also wonder what would power the Dodge/GM truck Cummins or Duramax? I would believe that they would have to keep the Cummins in the Dodge if they could. If the Ford and Dodge used the same motor it would not be any different than the larger truck markets in which the same engine can be speced in different OEM trucks.

I have had a Duramax in some shape or form since 01 and I can only think of two recalls, The tailgate cables and a fuel filter issue. There may have been more but I cant remember them.

muddstopper
03-06-2007, 09:11 PM
But the thing is Toyota doesnt have anything to even really compete with the 3/4ton F250 GM/Dodge 2500 class. Let alone a full one ton or bigger. Call me treasonous but from what I keep hearing about reliability and such, if toyota made a 1 ton dually I might have to consider it.


You might want to read this before you make your decision to buy the Toy.


Thunder on the Tundra: Toyota Trucks Ahead in 2007 Recalls
Our Buy American Mention of the Week!
by Roger Simmermaker
February 18, 2007


If you’ve merely done a moderate amount of Internet surfing or cracked open a newspaper lately - just about any newspaper - you’ve undoubtedly seen the news that Toyota has once again passed Ford in worldwide auto sales and may pass GM sometime this year.

But what you may not have seen is that Toyota has already passed both Ford and GM in a different category - automotive recalls.

Although we’ve barely passed mid-February, Toyota has already recalled 533,417 vehicles this year in a mix that, according to www.AutoRecalls.us, includes Tundras Sequoias and Camrys. That puts Toyota on track to recall more than the over 1.76 million autos they recalled in the U.S. and Japan in 2006, and the 2.2 million they recalled in 2005 when they recalled more cars than they built.

What’s more, the current recall related to the Turdra trucks and Sequioa SUVs is similar to the same defect in 800,000 of the same vehicles in 2005. Maybe somebody at Toyota isn’t paying attention?

Hopefully the American consumers are. Recall numbers by domestic companies (GM and Ford) so far this year are as follows: Ford, 128,163; Chevrolet, 4,829; and Pontiac, 1,602.

Chrysler - a German company masquerading as an American company with plans to start importing cars from China in 2008 - has recalled 77,432 vehicles so far in 2007.

To be sure, high recall numbers are not good. Auto companies would much rather prefer high sales numbers instead. As I’ve already mentioned, the media is abuzz that GM may lose its crown this year to Toyota in worldwide auto sales. But for that to ever happen in the U.S. sales category, it’s going to take several more years since GM has a U.S. market share of 24.3% compared to 15.4% for Toyota. Even Ford, despite their recent troubles, has a higher domestic market share than Toyota at 17.5%.

But if GM loses their worldwide crown this year, it may actually turn out to be a blessing in disguise. Here’s why:

First, GM spent 17% less per vehicle this January compared to last January, which means they are more profitable on a per-unit basis. In fact, GM expects to report a profit for the most recent quarter.

Second, it may be good for GM to step aside temporarily, for now, and let Toyota take all the ammunition that is always aimed at the top dog of the industry so there is less pressure and fewer distractions. And when GM combines their more-solid profitability and their improved quality together, their public perception will also improve.

Then they can use these admirable qualities to prepare to surge back on top at the precise time Toyota is in the top slot with their recall surge in the news. Toyota’s timing at being number one worldwide would create further skepticism about whether they really deserve their reputation for untarnished quality.

According to Business Week’s January 22, 2007 issue, Toyota has recalled 9.3 million vehicles in the last three years, which is nearly four times the number of recalls in the three year period prior to 2004.

Other recent news that won’t sit well with a Camry-conscious public is the class-action lawsuit recently settled by Toyota regarding ruinous oil sludge buildup covering 3.5 million Toyota and Lexus (yes, Lexus) vehicles.

Optimistic statements by Toyota executives aren’t going to cut it for long - particularly when they don’t match well with reality. Denial in the Camry-company camp seems to be setting in. Toyota’s North American president Jim Press recently disputed the suggestion that his company no longer enjoys a large lead in reliability over the American competition. Speculating on the thoughts of American car company well-wishers while speaking at the recent Chicago Auto Show, Press said "I think there’s some hope that the gap in quality is closing, but it really isn’t."

Oh, really? That’s a pretty strong comment considering Toyota recalled 1.27 million vehicles in one swoop in 2005, recording the biggest-ever recall in history for a Japanese car company.

But, recalls notwithstanding, the evidence that the quality gap is closing is pretty indisputable, and the evidence has been piling up for more than just the last couple of years. With the following facts, you can make your argument for American car quality fully bulletproof - even among your most ardent foreign car-defending friends.

* A February 10, 2003 Business Week told of how undeniable it was that GM cars are better built than they used to be. The article cited an improved J.D. Power quality ranking and a Consumer Reports recommendation for 13 of GM’s vehicles (equal to 41% of their sales volume) compared to just five recommended GM vehicles for the previous year. The Chevy Impala beat the Camry in a quality survey, and Buick beat BMW.

* Business Week also reported September 23, 2003 that GM boosted its productivity 23% in six years while Toyota’s productivity remained flat, and that GM’s most-productive factories now beat Toyota’s most-productive factories.

* A 2004 Consumer Reports ranking selected the Buick Regal as the most reliable among family sedans, beating the Toyota Camry, Honda Accord and Nissan Maxima. They also gave recommended ratings for four Ford models, including the Ford Focus.

* J.D. Power and Associates awarded Cadillac’s Lansing Grand River assembly center its highest honor - the Gold Plant Quality Award - in 2004.

* An August 4, 2004 Wall Street Journal article said Toyota’s lead in quality and reliability has narrowed in some segments and disappeared in others. Quality problems were reportedly "mushrooming."

* The Toyota Camry hasn’t been awarded the best in its segment since the year 2000, but many Americans continue to regard it as the number one model in terms of quality. Toyota’s Kentucky Camry plant was awarded with high initial quality rankings by J.D. Power from the late 1980s through the 1990s, but it plummeted to number 26 in 2002, improving to only number 14 in 2004, while two GM factories and one Ford factory took the top three spots that year.

* In a J.D. Power Initial Quality Survey of new 2004 cars, Chevy placed second behind Honda and Toyota sank to number three.

* As far back as at least 2003, Business Week has reported that American consumers regard certain foreign cars as better built than American cars, even when facts prove otherwise.

* Fast-forwarding to 2006, J.D. Power shows Mercury, Buick and Cadillac beat Toyota in a list of dependable cars. Two Buicks and a Mercury took the top three midsize car awards; Mercury, Ford and Buick took the top three large car awards; Ford took the midsize van award and the midsize truck award; and GMC and Cadillac took the large MAV (multi-purpose activity vehicle) and large premium MAV awards, respectively.

* In an article about trust issues, Business Week’s December 11, 2006 issue stated "GM’s quality nearly equals Toyota’s." Perceived quality among the American public is another story, however. The difference between the actual quality of American cars and the perceived quality of American cars is the "perception gap."

* In the same article, J.D. Power’s director for retail research said "Actual quality is so close" - discussing the quality rankings of GMC, Chevrolet and Cadillac placing them on par with both Honda and Toyota.

* And most recently, of course, the Ford Fusion and Mercury Milan beat the Honda Accord and Toyota Camry according to Consumer Reports.

What’s needed among automotive senior executives, and much of the media as well, is a return to intellectual honesty. Everyone tends to have their favorites and biases (mine are pretty obvious) but I pride myself in sticking with the facts to back up my comments.

When Toyotas North American president says that the quality gap isn’t really closing, he’s not being intellectually honest.

Some editorial writers aren’t either. When Douglas Brinkley trumpeted Indiana’s success in a Wall Street Journal article last year for attracting a Honda plant to their state - even though it took $140 million in tax credits and incentives - he wasn’t what you would call "intellectually honest." In an apparent attempt to convince the reader that Honda doesn’t send any automobiles to the U.S. from outside the country, he said the following: "Turning farm fields into factories, that’s what Henry Ford used to do. Today, in the heartland, it’s being done by Honda - a company that doesn’t manufacture imports but builds American-made cars."

Such statements lead the reader to think that some Japanese companies make all of their cars in the USA. Hardly. In fact, according to a January 8, 2007 Wall Street Journal article, the NAP ratio - a ratio that compares how many cars are built in North America vs. the number of cars imported - is slipping for Toyota. And according to Toyota internal documentation, the ratio is going to worsen next year.

Occasionally I’ll find an editorial writer that dares to step away from the foreign biases of others in the same industry and rate cars objectively, rather than relying on the mindset of the question "will American cars ever match the Japanese cars in quality?"

Editorial Director for Consumer Guide Automotive Mark Bilek departed from the typical mindset of his colleagues back in June of 2005 by declaring that the Ford Five Hundred was the best car he’d ever driven.

That’s good news for Ford, since the Five Hundred is being renamed the Taurus and will get several more second-looks because of the Taurus’ higher name recognition. Billek said he judged the Five Hundred based on "what it is" and how well it "fulfills its mission." Based on this, his opinion was that the Five Hundred was "simply the best full-size sedan sold in America."

I am confident, however, that people like Toyota’s Jim Press can be somewhat honest in their statements about the competition from time to time. He did say that the "car of the show" at the Detroit Auto Show in January was, for him, none other than the Chevy Malibu. Maybe there’s hope for intellectual honesty after all.

Roger Simmermaker is the author of "How Americans Can Buy American: The Power of Consumer Patriotism." He also writes "Buy American Mention of the Week" articles for his website www.howtobuyamerican.com and is a member of the Machinists Union and National Writers Union. Roger has been a frequent guest on Fox News, CNN and MSNBC and has been quoted in the USA Today, Wall Street Journal and US News & World Report among many other publications.

TXNSLighting
03-07-2007, 12:56 AM
I don't have the mega cab. That was just on the 06 made before march of 06. Yes dodge does mess up sometimes but I see a lot more GM and FORD recalls than dodge. I don't see recalls on the cummins engine.

my CUMMINS has had 3 recalls.

ccash
03-07-2007, 01:06 AM
daimler just bought them to milk them off as long as they could and then dump them

TXNSLighting
03-07-2007, 01:15 AM
wow. that was a hell of a post...

ccash
03-07-2007, 01:18 AM
damn right it was

MarcSmith
03-07-2007, 07:52 AM
so they recalled more vehicles....I'll give in and say their initial quality is down....as a result mostly of rapid expansion.

but look around at the beaters stillon the road today. I don't see very many mid-80's american iron still running reliably beyong the high 100K mile mark. the foriegn car market, Includeding the likes of BMW and Mercedes, and volvo, they build longevity into their vehicles and good resale value. something the americans have yet to really master....But then again, most americans don't ever want to own a car anymore, theyd rather lease and jump cars every few years and continue their revolving debt. One thing we are good at and one thing all car companies are good at exploiting.

Eclipse
03-07-2007, 08:36 AM
daimler just bought them to milk them off as long as they could and then dump them

As far as I know DCX does not own Cummins nor have they recenetly purchased the company. I do not think they fall under the DCX umbrella of brands nor am I aware of any controlling interest DCX has with Cummins Inc.

dozerman21
03-07-2007, 09:29 AM
daimler just bought them to milk them off as long as they could and then dump them


I think he was referring to Chrysler, not Cummins.

Cummins is owned by Cummins, not Daimler.


Texaslawnandlandscape- Just out of curiosity, why do you have a Ford in your avatar? Is that also your truck? I hear you refer to your Dodge or Cummins and it throws me off.:hammerhead:

Eclipse
03-07-2007, 09:32 AM
I think he was referring to Chrysler, not Cummins.


That makes more sense. I seen Cummins referenced in the previous post and that what was on my mind I guess whed I read the next post.

I guess after a night of plowing I shouldn't post on here when I am sleep deprived :)

MarcSmith
03-07-2007, 03:38 PM
perfect example of GM's inept brain.

got this article out of todays washington post...
Before he produces any really fuel efficient vehicles for america he thinks the govement should mandate it. what a dolt... He thinks if they build it or import it form the Opel Division it would be waste...Oh I don't know I see all sort of small fuel efficient vehicles moving off the shelves right now in other dealerships...

Lutz is such a putz....

heres the link...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/06/AR2007030601807.html

snoope
03-07-2007, 05:33 PM
That is what is so great about America....you buy something and it last.you can tell the world....you buy something and it "tanks".blame it on everyone else:cool2: :cool2:

I'll stick behind my words and my TOYOTAS.....7 of them going over 100k and 5 still out here collecting miles:usflag: :usflag:

But then again I do stand behind everything that gives me good service...My '87 Cat 3306 ( Hidden in a KW tractor) had 1,000,030 on the odometer when I traded that and is still hauling sand in Florida........

That being said,CAT,Toyota and Walker are my top picks........
Just an 'old Yankee talking.......enjoy your day.......:walking: :walking: :walking:


Snoope back quiet

TXNSLighting
03-08-2007, 12:09 AM
I think he was referring to Chrysler, not Cummins.

Cummins is owned by Cummins, not Daimler.


Texaslawnandlandscape- Just out of curiosity, why do you have a Ford in your avatar? Is that also your truck? I hear you refer to your Dodge or Cummins and it throws me off.:hammerhead:

Because its a sweet ass truck! :laugh: Yeh i have a cummins sittin in the driveway. but im a ford guy at heart, i just bought the dodge cuz it was 8 grand cheaper than the ford, so i figured what the hell, ill try it out. and i like the engine, but the truck is crap! its been in the shop 5 times. twice for engine, three times for truck related problems.

TXNSLighting
03-08-2007, 12:13 AM
perfect example of GM's inept brain.

got this article out of todays washington post...
Before he produces any really fuel efficient vehicles for america he thinks the govement should mandate it. what a dolt... He thinks if they build it or import it form the Opel Division it would be waste...Oh I don't know I see all sort of small fuel efficient vehicles moving off the shelves right now in other dealerships...

Lutz is such a putz....

heres the link...
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/03/06/AR2007030601807.html

that guys weird...