Lets see what some of your contract papers look like

[bigmudder77]

I am just getting ideas of what my contract paper should look like and just wanted to see what other peoples look like. thanks for your time

[echeandia]

I just got the bill from my attorney for writing my service agreement. Many others on here have also paid and are unlikely to give away what you are asking for. There are samples available at http://www.gophergraphics.com/forum/cgi-bin/ikonboard.cgi?act=ST;f=1;t=877 which might get you started.

Good luck.

[bigmudder77]

you need to pay for them? i thought you could just make them on your own

[stumpslawncare]

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o292/lfdfireguy234/paper.jpg


Sorry I couldn't resist.

[bigmudder77]

Ok let me get this stright you need to pay to have some one else write up your service agreements? Why cant you just make up your own?

[echeandia]

Ok let me get this stright you need to pay to have some one else write up your service agreements? Why cant you just make up your own?

If you want to be sure you are protected I recommend you speak with an attorney. The initial consultation will not cost you.

[echeandia]

http://i123.photobucket.com/albums/o292/lfdfireguy234/paper.jpg


That was my initial thought too. :laugh:

[bigmudder77]

ok thank you for helping me cause i spent like all day typing this up and i didnt want to here that i couldnt use it and it was a waste of my time

[LB1234]

Yes, you can make them up on your own. However, having them hold up in court or having them written so you can avoid court all-together is why some of us choose to have our attorney's review them, edit them, etc.

For this reason, I will not give away my service agreements, contracts, hold harmless agreements, etc.

Now, if you post what you have already and have specific questions maybe I can help you a little better.

[bigmudder77]

Thats alright it took me long enough to type the thing up i am just gonna take it to the attorney my dad had when he owned the farm they were real good friends

[lawnpro724]

If you don't want to go to an attorney and have him/her draw up a contract go to staples or another office supply store and look for a legal contract program. I have one and it has just about every kind of contract you will ever need and then some. These contracts are drawn up by a lawyer and are legal in just about any state. I have been using mine for everything I need for several years and its what I used to draw up my contracts, collection letters and they are very proffesional looking. I doubt any lawyer could do any better and the best part is that the program only costs $39.95

[Roger]

Just like LCOs want to be paid to provide lawn care services to others, so too those who have been trained and have experience in writing contracts, service agreements (or whatever you wish to call them), want to be paid for their work too! Their legal education and experience in exercising their craft is worth far more than anybody following a lawn mower. Why shouldn't they be paid?

[Carolina Cuts]

http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=73788&stc=1&d=1172181154
contract.jpg

[HOOLIE]

You know Carolina Cuts contract would hold up small claims most likely believe it or not...I think some of you should sit in on small claims one time to see why NOT to pay big bucks for a lawn mowing contract...

Or just get paid upfront each month so you're never behind...why pay a lawyer for a contract and then bill 4 weeks after services and wait another 4 weeks for your money???

Small claims judges, they just look to see if you have some sort of paperwork...they don't try to pick it apart and look for technical loopholes....it's not a murder trial...you don't have to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt". Not the same type of court. Heck you can win without any sort of contract so long as you have some route sheets, payment stubs, etc.

[LB1234]

You know Carolina Cuts contract would hold up small claims most likely believe it or not...I think some of you should sit in on small claims one time to see why NOT to pay big bucks for a lawn mowing contract...

Or just get paid upfront each month so you're never behind...why pay a lawyer for a contract and then bill 4 weeks after services and wait another 4 weeks for your money???

Small claims judges, they just look to see if you have some sort of paperwork...they don't try to pick it apart and look for technical loopholes....it's not a murder trial...you don't have to prove "beyond a reasonable doubt". Not the same type of court. Heck you can win without any sort of contract so long as you have some route sheets, payment stubs, etc.

I agree with it being simple but I don't want my snow plow and salting contracts to be 'simple'. I have one page that is dedicated to what we are are not responsible for.

My lawyer added one line which I think is great, especially for commercial accounts. It basically states that whoever is signing is legally allowed to and the event anything happens they are responsible. I can't tell you how many times I've heard read about someone getting a contract with a local chain only finding themselves SOL b/c the person who signed didn't have the legal authority to do so. And I'm not sure of many commercial establishments that would allow for upfront payments...deposits yes...full payments I don't think so.

[echeandia]

You know Carolina Cuts contract would hold up small claims most likely believe it or not...

No it wouldn't. There is no consideration (i.e. money) mentioned.

[Carolina Cuts]

I work for free. :cool2: cause' I like the hours.

[HOOLIE]

No it wouldn't. There is no consideration (i.e. money) mentioned.

Actually it would...and just bring along a copy of the customer's history from whatever database you are using, which would show what they pay. Whereabouts in VA are you??

You're right LB1234 with your scenarios...that's a different ballgame entirely. But for regular residential mowing you don't need much.

My old customers that I have 'grandfathered' in under my old billing procedures, I never let anyone get more than 2 months behind. So typically the most they would owe would be under $300, so really I see no need to have anything drawn up by a lawyer. I'm never sure what guys mean by 'contract'??? Do they want something to ensure they will get paid, or to make sure a customer can't cancel...'contract' means different things to different people.

[echeandia]

Actually it would...and just bring along a copy of the customer's history from whatever database you are using, which would show what they pay.

Wrong. A contract needs the following:


A meeting of the minds between the parties demonstrating they both understand and agree to the essentials of the deal
Consideration (something of value exchanged by each of the parties, such as cash, goods or a promise to do something)
An agreement to enter into the contract (typically evidenced by both parties signing a written contract, although oral contracts can be valid too in some situations)
The legal competence of each party, meaning the parties are not minors and are of sound mind.


Without these things there is no written legal contract. Now you may try to convince the court that you had a verbal contract but good luck with that.

[HOOLIE]

Wrong. A contract needs the following:


A meeting of the minds between the parties demonstrating they both understand and agree to the essentials of the deal
Consideration (something of value exchanged by each of the parties, such as cash, goods or a promise to do something)
An agreement to enter into the contract (typically evidenced by both parties signing a written contract, although oral contracts can be valid too in some situations)
The legal competence of each party, meaning the parties are not minors and are of sound mind.


Without these things there is no written legal contract. Now you may try to convince the court that you had a verbal contract but good luck with that.

So for instance, if a customer signs such a contract on April 8th, and later disputes a mowing on July 26th, how do you go about proving that? See my point? The contract typically establishes that there was an agreement between both parties, and little else. And many other thing establish that same relationship...records from your database, bill stubs, phone logs, etc. I'm not implying that it's bad to have a signed agreement/contract...but a deadbeat is a deadbeat...you still will have to jump through all the hoops to get your money in the end.

[Roger]

Isn't it such a good thing to come to LawnSite for legal advice....?

[HOOLIE]

Isn't it such a good thing to come to LawnSite for legal advice....?

:laugh: Somewhere there's a bunch of lawyers discussing the best way to get a green lawn... :laugh: Well I think Sean should create an 'Amateur Legal Advice Forum' It would be just under the 'Amateur Bookkeeping and Accounting Forum' :laugh: :laugh:

[echeandia]

So for instance, if a customer signs such a contract on April 8th, and later disputes a mowing on July 26th, how do you go about proving that?

Suppose you do the season of mowing and they have paid you for each week of service by check. Then because they are scum they sue you to get their money back. They claim you were supposed to do the work for free and show your very simple contract. What will happen?

Sure, if you have to go to court you will need more than a contract. You need to bring supporting document. These will be service call receipts, change requests, letters, invoices, copies of checks to support that you held up your half of the bargain.

[HOOLIE]

Suppose you do the season of mowing and they have paid you for each week of service by check. Then because they are scum they sue you to get their money back. They claim you were supposed to do the work for free and show your very simple contract. What will happen?

Sure, if you have to go to court you will need more than a contract. You need to bring supporting document. These will be service call receipts, change requests, letters, invoices, copies of checks to support that you held up your half of the bargain.

That's a pretty far-fetched scenario for starters. From what I've seen in court, the judge would question why they would pay all year for a service that they thought was free :laugh: The fact that they paid a set amount all year would establish the price, even though the price was left off the contract for whatever reason. Also no judge is going to presume that an LCO would work for free...that's ludicrous...

[CkLandscapingOrlando]

I got my contract from a client.They gave me the one from the company that they had so I new what they wanted.Ask for the contract out line and they'll probly give it to you short of the #

[CkLandscapingOrlando]

In a contract you also want to spell out how and why the contract can be cancelled.If you spell out the fact that a client has to pay x amount of the contract if its cancelled through no fault of your company,then they will be alot less inklined to cancel because the kid next door will do it for 15 bucks.At the same time,if your doing houses and you do a good job for a good price the contract dont mean much.The time it takes to sue a guy for 2 months...If you cant pay the lawn guy thats busted his ass for you then your a bum and I dont need the stress.

[echeandia]

I got my contract from a client.They gave me the one from the company that they had ... Ask for the contract out line and they'll probly give it to you...

I don't recommend doing this. It is unethical.

[bigmudder77]

thank you for all your input on this. i have been working on it all weekend and it is about 3 pages long now i used another contract that i got from a local business. does any one think this is to much cause i think it is probaly to short? the one from the business was 12 pages long and in size 10 font mine is almost 3 in size 14 font. (i want to make sure every one can read the thing)

also i did put if they break this contract they are required to pay the remaining weekly lawn service price stated above until the end of the growing season

sound good or not?

[echeandia]

...also i did put if they break this contract they are required to pay the remaining weekly lawn service price stated above until the end of the growing season...

Is there any type of cancellation clause? If not, good luck getting someone to sign that. Are you going to have an attorney review it for you?

[bigmudder77]

Is there any type of cancellation clause? If not, good luck getting someone to sign that. Are you going to have an attorney review it for you?

what do you mean by this

[echeandia]

what do you mean by this

Are you asking about the cancellation clause, the customer signing, or the attorney review?

[bigmudder77]

the cancellation clause

[echeandia]

It gives you and/or your client the right to terminate the contract after meeting specified conditions or events. For example the contract can be canceled by providing 30 days written notice.

[bigmudder77]

no there is none of that. i work hard to give them what they want and if they have a problim with it i will try and fix it, but pretty much when they sign that they are gonna pay for the whole season of mowing (this dont include clean-ups or snow plowing) it just includes mowing trimming and edging. if they dont want to then they will pay for the rest of the year and i will not show up any more. alot of places do that

[CkLandscapingOrlando]

I don't recommend doing this. It is unethical.

Whats wrong with using the out line from another company?Your not getting their bid to under cut them,just a few sheets of paper that gives you an out line to go by.If you find a good flier that works better then what you have then It would be smart to re do your own flier based off of the other guys.To not do so would be to not do your self justice.

[echeandia]

Whats wrong with using the out line from another company?Your not getting their bid to under cut them,just a few sheets of paper that gives you an out line to go by.

You aren't asking for an outline. You are asking for the entire contract with the pricing removed. It's someone else's intellectual property and you are stealing it.

[CkLandscapingOrlando]

If I take and re write the whole thing to fit my needs then I dont see how I'm stealing it.my version sounds alot better.I never asked for it.Thats what I was given as a list of contract stipulations.My contract looks nothing like thiers,I did just what I said and used it as an outline.

[bigmudder77]

thats what i have done i had an out line and started new but had a guide line on to what i was to put in there and then do it my way

[echeandia]

If you are rewriting the whole thing then why did you need the other guys contract? Would you let someone use your equipment on the weekends? You're not using it so let someone else. You wouldn't because its your stuff and its valuable to you.

[CkLandscapingOrlando]

I had no idea what a contract looked liked nor did I need it up untill the point that I was asked to put In a bid and they gave me the papers.At that point what should I have done.I could (a)ignor the blessing in my lap and go out and spend some money on some computer disc.Or (b)Use my head and.I went with B.If some of you think thats wrong Im sorry but I'll do it again if some thing comes up.Now that I have a basis I can change the one I have to fit any situation.Work smart not hard brother

[bigmudder77]

ya i would let some one use my equitment on the weekend if he was building his own and needed it for a guide line. i mean what you are saying is that we took there papers and just changed the name to ours. when really all we did was use it as an out line just like every one else does. do you think you can build a car with out ever seeing what one looked like or knowing what it was? NO YOU CANT thats all i did was get an idea as to what i would need to have in there. im sure you did that or just had some one write yours up for you, which then they had to know what they were doing cause they wrote them before. see what i mean or are you still lost on the whole i needed to know what to put in there thing?

[echeandia]

...see what i mean or are you still lost...

You got one thing right. Someone is lost.

[bigmudder77]

well i dont care what you think cause i understood what i said and thats all the matters