General Questions - New Business

[Bob_McNaughton]

Questions, but first, a brief history.

I've recently been thinking of getting back into the lawn business. When I was 17 I did lawns for about 2 years, then decided to quit and goto college (I have a degree in business admin/marketing). I made decent money at 17 doing this, and loved it. But I only had a 48" Scag, not nearly enough for the massive lawns I ended up cutting. So it burned me out - plus, the scags never had a decent cut imho.

Anyway, during college, over the summer I worked for a guy that had 2 crews out. Enjoyed it agian, like before. Then later when I was layed off from my firm, I went back to work for this same guy as a forman, and enjoyed it again and learned alot about running a solid lawn maintence company.

For the last 3 years i've been working as a Store Manager for Radioshack. I'm burned out working "for the man". I don't mind the long hours so much, but the pay and the BS stress are what gets to me. This year, I will be lucky to top 30k in pay. Retail isn't a good business anymore, and 30k for 50-60hrs a week aren't cutting it.

My wife is pretty high paid, and we have a good chunk of money saved up, so I have some flexibility to start a business, or do whatever I want.

Thats my quick history in a nutshell. Now for my questions..

1) Is the business still booming like it was years ago? Seems I was turning down customers do to high volumn, and the guy I worked for also turned down people alot.

2) I'm in Michigan, so its a summer thing (plow in winter though). How is the income potential for a hustler with a good business head, strong work ethics, and high quality equipment? I'm working 50-60 hours a week at Radioshack, so long hours aren't strange to me.

3) How do you figure pricing now? Back when I did it, we figured based on man hours. If a lawn takes one hour, we charged $50.00 or so. Is it the same now? What do people use as a benchmark for pricing nowadays?

4) I live in one of the richest counties in the nation. However, the city I live in has small lawns. 10-15 minutes away are big lawns. Should I build a business around small 20 minute jobs, hoping to get dozens on the same street? Or should I go out a ways, and do the big daddy, high profit lawns? There are two very different business models depending on what I choose, and I am seeking advice for this.

5) On the low end, figuring 60 customers a week at an average of $35.00 a cut, thats a solid $2100.00 a week in revenue. Is this accurate? Or am I pulling numbers out of my rear? Because 2100 a week is more than FOUR times my current pay at Radioshack. (but I work year around, and lawncare isn't). If I could match or just barely beat my 30k a year, i'd be a happy camper. Advice here please.

6) Equipment.. I have nothing right now.. I need to buy a truck, and all the gear. So my question is, do I go out and get a lazer 60", and have that as my sole mower? Or should I at least invest in a 48" to cover the small lawns and as a backup? Advice here as well please.

Thats about it for now. I don't think i'll be doing anything until next spring, as summer is half over, and i'd hate to spend money on the business only to not have customers and have winter encroaching on me. Is this a smart thing to do? Wait, plan and save till spring? Certainly another 6 months or so of saving money would be sweet, as well as giving me more time to plan the business, draft advertising, etc. Any advice here?

Thanks for any help guys/gals.

Bob

[Eric ELM]

Welcome to Lawnsite. Others in your area can probably help you with the numbers better, but your numbers sound close.

I taget larger lawns and us two 60" Choppers to mow with. If you get both large and small, you might want a w/b for the small lawns. Even when I did do small lawns, I used my 60", but I would only do the ones I could get the 60" in the back yards.

I just have one suggestion. Since you are in Mich. you could plow snow in the winter. Since you need a truck for the lawns, get one to plow with at the same time, get a 4x4 and put a plow on it. Now is the perfect time to get into this and then target those accounts for lawns next spring also.

Here is a search on the word Start, sort through them and you will find some on starting up a biz.
http://www.lawnsite.com/search.php?action=showresults&searchid=10827&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

Good luck :)

[accuratelawn]

I f I were to start over again, I would purchase a 36" Hydro wb and a 60" Lazer. No bagging and no small gates that a 36 would not go thru.
As Eric said, buy a 4x4 and start looking for accounts now, both lawn and plow.
I started part time in July 97 while working one of those 50+ hour per week jobs.
Good luck!

[kturner]

Is the $2100 under the table?

8400
- 350 truck payment
- 200 equipment payments
- 200 gas
- 200 truck insurance
- 100 fertilizer/small replacement pieces
- 60 business insurance
- I know others could add a lot to this list, but let's be miserly.

7290 netted...until tax time. They'll take 2405.70.

That leaves you 4884.30 per month, assuming you get all your customers right away with no advertising.

All my numbers are way off, but just didn't want you to forget the fun stuff.

[cp]

I'm fresh off the starting blocks as a new LCO and I can tell you that everything that has been said and some that has not is right on the money. I'm in Virginia so the snow thing is very iffy at best, some years we're hit hard, others no snow to talk about.

That said I would recommend that you plan initially to cover everything from postage stamp size up to the "Eric's Specials", very nice properties, and as your business expands and you find your niche and expand in that area.

I had very good advice both from LS.com and my dealer on the type of equipment to buy and what to live without just getting started. Use this forum and also talk with your local dealers to determine your startup requirements. I started with a 60" Lazer and a 36" wb and the usual hand tools, Blower, Trimmer, Edger, etc. I hardly ever use my wb but I have needed it for hills and such.

And lastly, if you can afford it, buy good new equipment. You need equipment that will perform and have warranty support if needed.

I hope you have as good luck as I have had..Chris..

[GreenQuest Lawn]

What part of Mi are you in?

This could help

[dmk395]

Place some flyers out now and try getting into the business partime first. You will be working some serious hours, but maybe a neighborhood kid could help you out with some of the jobs.

[Bob_McNaughton]

Im in Royal Oak Michigan.

I have no interest in starting part-time. As I said, I did it part-time a long time ago. (when I was 17) Made good money, but was lacking anything more than a 48", which was too small for my big jobs, and I got burned out after two years. Plus, i've been a forman for a successful guy in the business a few years ago.

I intend on investing in all the required equipment upfront, and haven't decided yet. Leaning to a Lazer60 and a Exmark 36". Also I need to purchase a truck and trailer, which I will do this winter.

I plan to be geared up, and ready to roll this spring, and with my marketing/business degree, and lotsa practical business experiance, I intend a heavy, and intense advertising blitz to secure a good amount of clients from the start.

[roscioli]

Don't mean to be sarcastic, but is it possible to start out with enough customers to be full time? If so, let me know how, so i can jump from 20 to 50 next spring!

[GreenStar]

GETTING ACCOUNTS IS NOT HARD IF YOU HAVE TURF EXPERIANCE.IT TAKES A LITTLE MORE THAN "CUTTING GRASS"
TO SECURE REVENUE.KNOWLEDGE, APPERANCE AND DEDICATION WILL GET THE JOB.

[Bob_McNaughton]

Originally posted by roscioli
Don't mean to be sarcastic, but is it possible to start out with enough customers to be full time? If so, let me know how, so i can jump from 20 to 50 next spring!

I would certainly hope it is possible to start out fulltime. I've done some research, and think I have a decent plan. I've had 3 extremely successful businesses, and have been in a executive level of a advertising agency. I THINK (hope and pray) I have a pretty good foundation for whats to come. Plus, when I had my part-time lawn company at 17, I had I believe close to 30 customers my first year, but I advertised a good measure. (even though my quality was low, and I was lazy. Hehe)

Given an early enough start, and a strong, dedicate and well targetted marketing campaign, it should be possible.

My plans are still in the planning stages, but the basic core of the advertising plan is:

1) Ads in the local papers of the target area.

2) Targetted, hard-hitting door hangings in focus areas.

3) Banner insert in the local "Val-pak" and "Mikes Marketshare" - basically these are direct mailed envelopes filled with deals/coupons, etc.

4) Some cold-call, door to door marketing. (right in line of my comfort zone, and way out of most peoples.) in highly desirable areas and commercial buildings.

5) Flier pin-ups and card drop-offs are all the local bulletin boards.

6) Direct contact, and negotiation with local real estate offices. For listing cleanups, vacant house maintenance, and because of the sheer volumn of people a Real Estate agent talks too in a week.

7) Sponsorship of local events, art fairs, and other high profile, high attendance events. To include, but not be limited to, handing out helium baloons and other trinkets at these events.

8) High profile "Turf maintained by: xxxxx Lawn Service" impulse signage with placement on highest traffic accounts. Also, in my target area, my sister has a house on a high volumn, highly desirable corner. Which a sign may generate some traffic, and it can't hurt - plus my sister gets her yard done at half price. =p

9) Direct contact with other lawn professionals with agreements to share overflow and a understanding on pricing. (note: already have one agreement in place, long before starting business, with a high traffic company that turns down 5-8 customers a week.)

10) Local internet marketing, and low cost banner ad agreements with local ISP's. Might not generate much, but at the price I am getting them at(nearly free), it can't hurt. Plus, I already know these guys personally. =p

11) A few other tricks up my sleeve, including a "Refer a neighbor" program, and other trinket ideas.

I have no room for failure here guys. If I do finally decide to go ahead with my plan, the investment will be pretty high, and the risks very great. While only a fraction of my equipment will be financed, I will still need to be generating money from day one.

Granted my current job, working "For the man" is paying me only around 30-35k a year. Which after talking to people, seems like I could easily beat in lawn maintence. Rightfully so, I will need to beat it, because of my added overhead and operational costs.

I've debated several businesses and careers at this point in my life.. Real Estate, Opening a Dining Establisment, Opening a pizza joint, Carpet Cleaning, Car sales, or going back into advertising and marketing. But in the end, i've always ended up thinking about Lawn Maint. more. Pizza or restaurant have way high startup costs, and you end up "Working for the man" anyway (Read: Your employees) IE you end up working there without a day off because you have people you cannot depend on for anything. Carpet cleaning has its ups and downs, with about slightly more startup than LC - but Carpet Cleaning requires training and knowledge I don't have. Real Estate can be high paying, but it takes awhile to build referrals, and generate listings and sales, etc. Which can leave you incomeless for between 3-9 months! (not to mention still working for the man)

I am not going to be a "Scrub" as you all put it. I detest people in the business that cheapen the services you all offer just to make a buck and get an account. I ran into one today, your typical ****ty trailer with a single beat up 36" scag on it. I asked her how much she charges to cut the lawn she was currently cutting, because my yard is almost the same (I lied). She said around $15.00-$18.00.. WTF IS THAT!?! I wouldn't unload my equipment for under $25.00. Can I get 8$ more than her in that area? Possibly, if I project an extremely professional image, and have the right gear, and do the job extremely well. Not sure I want to be in that area anyway for mowin. Heh

Whew, lotsa typing.

[GreenQuest Lawn]

I started out full time. the first year I had 35 accts.

Now I will say i had help. I had a friend that sells industrial supplies to a large amount of commercial accounts. that got my foot in the door with him selling my services.

then it snowballed from there as soon as the people saw my work the calls started coming. people that worked at the companys, The owners, & people driving by.

After the first year I did not advertise at all (besides for the name on my truck). This year I have 45 accts.

I charge $45/hr

I guess I did everything different from what people say.

I bought my equipment before I had many accts. I figured if I had the equipment then i could take on more as it came along.

I don't know how the winters are around you but here on the lakeshore we average around 80-100" per yr. The plowing is really good.

I bought a 60" lazer and a 52" Metro,

Now my wife also makes pretty good money. I will admit if the situation was different I may have done things different. But I took a chance and it turned out good.

[BIG RON]

Have you thougt about being a politician.

[Bob_McNaughton]

Snow is spotty at best around here. Years ago, we used to get blasted. But the last 20 winters have been much lighter.

But it can come in decent blasts, and then goes away just as quick.

How would you have done things different if you could do it over again? I'm curious to hear..

[roscioli]

Okay, you shut me up. :)

[kturner]

How many people living in a high traffic area will allow a high profile sign to be placed on their property?
I've wouldn't have thought to ask.

Good luck with the undertaking, I'm curious to hear how it goes. I've looked into several types of advertising and thought all of them to be too general in target area, or too time consuming.

I'd like to hear a shout from anyone with a vote for their most effective way to advertise and retain a tight service area. Besides word of mouth of course.

[Sean Adams]

Bob,

I read through all of the posts here so far. It sounds like you are very serious, and that is obviously important. This is a great place to come and get really helpful "hands on" advice. The members here love to help. Having a system for everything is important. Planning is great and needed, but things do not always work as planned - everyone here knows that, especially in an industry where mother nature is your #1 competitor. If you know how to deal with people, you are at an advantage. That will get more accounts and keep them secure than most marketing strategies. Don't forget telemarketing and direct mail. I owned my own business for nearly 10 years and direct mail was my #1 source of client generation...more importantly, it helped me keep and satisfy those clients. Hope this was helpful.

Sean Adams
www.lawncaresuccess.com

[GreenQuest Lawn]

Now that I re-read my post I need to clear it up.

What I meant by doing things different was if my wife was not making good money or if I were single I may have spent less money on equipment.

I was looking down the road. The first year was pretty tight. I figure might as well jump in with both feet.

Now I have my equipment almost paid for (exept the truck which is a lease) and I dont anticipate buying any large equipment for at least a few more years.


If I had started out with just my WB i would have out grown it by my second month in business. So looking back I did the right thing.

[Island Lawn]

You've got an expensive degree in Bus. Mgt/ Mkt.

You're burnt out managing "Radio Shack"

You want to Cut Grass?
You lookin' for approval?
It sounds like you've got it figured out...

Too much talk!
Not enough cutting!

You should have no problem reaching potential clients with the mkt blitz.

I'm earning my family a decent living w/ my 48"wb
AND paying off MY expensive degree!
Gotta start somewhere....

[AltaLawnCare]

More and more people with degrees getting into the lawn care wars. I don't feel as out of place......
this is becoming a white collar profession! :p

[Bob_McNaughton]

Todd,

Exactly my thoughts. My wife makes extremely good money as a Registered Nurse. To the tune of almost $30.00 an hour. She took a year off to raise our new kid, now shes back to work, 30 hours a week.

This now gives me alot more flexibility, and is pushing me towards a bigger startup than I would have without her steady income.

Back when I had my first LCO when I was 17, my biggest problem was I outgrew my 48" WB within the first few months. I had too many accounts one guy can walk, and too large of accounts a 48
" can handle. After my third month in business, I landed a phat account cutting all the group homes owned by a company. $60 a job, cutting 4 homes. But I quickly found out, I was spending many many hours doing something that should have taken 4 hours tops.

A couple of big lawns can quickly peter out a guy with a single walkbehind.

So this time around, I plan on jumped into a 52 or 60 ZTR, and a 36inch WB for the small lawns.

Shawn is right on the money with direct mail. With Val-Pak or Mikes Marketshare, they are delivered right to the mailboxes of targetted areas. You only pay for the blocks you want your ads in, and they are faily tight, 10-15 mile blocks.

I think the first year is going to be tough, because I might be more inclined to take ANY job, and most likely will not have very many that are in close proximity to each other. Hopefully, after the first year, I can fill inthe gaps a bit more.

When I worked as Forman for a successful lawn guy, we ran routes all over the place. Two days we were in one town, two days we were in another town, and one day we cut around his house location. The last day was cleanups, repairs, advertising, and makeup day or scrub jobs.

His formula seemed to work, he ran 2 crews, and did close to 100k a year after expenses. (and he wasn't that bright, or personable to say the least, all he did was do consistant, good quality cuts.)