Is this Brown Patch?

[Armadillolawncare]

This house is in Texas near San Antonio. The grass is St Augustine and it has an irrigation system that waters twice a week. I am new to diagnosing lawn diseases so I want to get you guys to tell me if I am correct or not. You can see the rings. The area is always damp because it is a valley between the two houses. I first noticed the rings last year before the grass went dormant. What can I do to bring the grass back to good health? I have shut off the zone that waters that area to help it dry out and I am going to top dress the area.

[Ric]

Is this Brown Patch???

NO

[Shades of Green LService]

I could be, but i might be summer Patch based on the green inside the rings.It's hard to tell without being on the site.
Summer Patch
1. Reduce soil ph to 6.0
2.Raise mowing height
3.Aerate
Brown Patch
1.reduce Nitrogen levels
2.Check phosphorus and potassium levels, if they are Drasticly low that can aid in the development of the fungi
After you get the area back and plants are well establihed i'd reccomend a preventative fungicide in that particular area.
I also don't deal with St. Augustine in my area so take what you will. LOL

[TPLawnPro]

I am seeing those brown circle patches a lot down here in South Louisiana. Just in the last couple of weeks they have started showing up more and more.

Wish I knew what they were?

[Ric]

I also don't deal with St. Augustine in my area so take what you will. LOL

Shades of Green

It is a good thing that you don't deal with St Augustine.

[Runner]

I'm not a warm season guy, nor do I play one on television, but if it were my guess, I would guess it to be either grey leaf spot, or powdery mildew. I'd love to be able to kneel down have a close look at it!

[Shades of Green LService]

RIC, Thanks for your support. Like i said ,"its hard to tell from a picture" i was only offering my advice based on what i do in my area COOL SEASON. So instead of your "witty one liners " Tell the rest of us simpletons what the great ric thinks.

[willietd2]

always good advise from runner

[willietd2]

shades of green, check your pm

[Ric]

RIC, Thanks for your support. Like i said ,"its hard to tell from a picture" i was only offering my advice based on what i do in my area COOL SEASON. So instead of your "witty one liners " Tell the rest of us simpletons what the great ric thinks.

Shades of Green

I don't try and Diagnose Cool Season Turf Problem. Need I say more?


TPLawnPro

What type of turf are you seeing these spots on and do they have a Smoke Ring??? If you don't have a Pesticide License, I remember when I lived in La. they were very easy to get.

[Shades of Green LService]

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

[Shades of Green LService]

So your not supposed to offer your opinion on this site. I feel sorry for you RIC I know people like you around here. Angry, feel the need to boost your own self confidence at any cost.my opinion of you is well never mind ,not worth it. " I promise to never ever ever ever reply to a post to someone who is in your area again" ..............This is the part where you go to the mirror and SMILE.

[Ric]

So your not supposed to offer your opinion on this site.

Shades of Green


Your opinion would be more creditably in New Jersey than Texas.

[Shades of Green LService]

Why are you so MAD RIC? I read on here all the time, you always bite the F'ing heads off people. I was only throwing my 2 cents in. If you disagree fine.Don't use this site as a way to vent your anger. It only causes problems. You obviously read my post, and i'm sure you read my closing lines.Maybe you should read it again.
I clearly state that i do NOT work w/ St. Augustine grass and to take it for what it's worth. I love this site, but people like you are ruining it. IMHO

[Shades of Green LService]

OH, i know your always quick to say lets compare lawns. ...................................Any Day my friend.

[All Pro Lawn Care]

looks like it to me. need to treat for it. when the temps at night at in the 60's it will start up. just make sure u dont fert 2 weeks before or after the treatment.

APLC

[ed2hess]

This a simple case of brown patch caused by over watering and compaction of the soil. NO easy fix it will come out in the spring and be fine. You can put compost on it to try to get good microbs going. Next fall before it get cool in September put on heavy dose of cornmeal or go to Lesco and get fungicide. It can be stopped from occurring.

[Shades of Green LService]

Heres a pic of the start of brown Patch on st. Ausustine

[Ric]

OH, i know your always quick to say lets compare lawns. ...................................Any Day my friend.



I don't remember saying "let's Compare Lawns".

I do believe in giving known facts and not guesses if I am going to share information. I don't post to threads that I am not certain about or I see someone has already given a Correct answer. What does bother me is the Gross amount of Misinformation Given to some of these Questions.

I don't see any signs that look like Brown Patch or any other fungus on this lawn in Central Texas. St Augustine is not a cold hardy Turf and What I see is Cold damage to a under Fertilized turf. Please note that against the building where the brick were holding heat the Turf is not effected. The Dead thatch in the turf is winter die back in the dormant season and with the correct Fert and Irrigation with the spring ground temperature warm up this turf should come back. Had this been Brown Patch, we would see rings of effected areas and not a consistent over all Browning of the turf. The close up Picture shows Green Live grass in a consistent over all even pattern, which is typical of Cold damage not Brown Patch.

The lawn on the Right of this picture also has had Sod thrown down, which tells me the Lawn has had some management issue or the Sod would not of been replaced. BTW this is not my first Rodeo when it come to Diagnosing St Augustine Turf Problems. However Pictures are not the same as Touching the turf.

[Armadillolawncare]

Ric
Please note that I said the rings were visible prior to going dormant. What I meant by that is the rings were visible while temps were still in the 90s. Because of the high temps when the problem was first noticed I doubt it is cold damage. The all over browning is due to the grass still being dormant and I do see rings of affected areas. Can you give another guess since it probably is not due to the cold?

[Armadillolawncare]

Ed
Thanks for the input. I think I have seen your trucks around when I have been in Austin. A couple times a year I make the trek to the Lescos right off S Congress and I used to work in Austin.

[Ric]

Ric
Please note that I said the rings were visible prior to going dormant. What I meant by that is the rings were visible while temps were still in the 90s. Because of the high temps when the problem was first noticed I doubt it is cold damage. The all over browning is due to the grass still being dormant and I do see rings of affected areas. Can you give another guess since it probably is not due to the cold?

Armadilo

When the Temperature is in the 90's Brown Patch will be dormant. Southern Brown Patch is some times called Winter Patch because we don't see it in the heat of summer. Those Rings must have been chinch bug damage when the temperature was in the 90's. Also Brown patch is a progressive disease. The center of the original circles of Brown patch would be pretty well burned out and no turf would be present. What I see is a pretty uniform browning.

I can See where sod was throw down on top of Chinch Bug damage in the right of the picture. So this Lawn has had Management issues.

BTW Chinch Bugs in Florida have become resistant to Bifenthrin.

[Armadillolawncare]

Thank you Ric for your assistance.

[Mataman]

I don't see any signs that look like Brown Patch or any other fungus on this lawn in Central Texas. St Augustine is not a cold hardy Turf and What I see is Cold damage to a under Fertilized turf. Please note that against the building where the brick were holding heat the Turf is not effected. The Dead thatch in the turf is winter die back in the dormant season and with the correct Fert and Irrigation with the spring ground temperature warm up this turf should come back. Had this been Brown Patch, we would see rings of effected areas and not a consistent over all Browning of the turf. The close up Picture shows Green Live grass in a consistent over all even pattern, which is typical of Cold damage not Brown Patch.

The lawn on the Right of this picture also has had Sod thrown down, which tells me the Lawn has had some management issue or the Sod would not of been replaced. BTW this is not my first Rodeo when it come to Diagnosing St Augustine Turf Problems. However Pictures are not the same as Touching the turf.

Armadilo

When the Temperature is in the 90's Brown Patch will be dormant. Southern Brown Patch is some times called Winter Patch because we don't see it in the heat of summer. Those Rings must have been chinch bug damage when the temperature was in the 90's. Also Brown patch is a progressive disease. The center of the original circles of Brown patch would be pretty well burned out and no turf would be present. What I see is a pretty uniform browning.

I can See where sod was throw down on top of Chinch Bug damage in the right of the picture. So this Lawn has had Management issues.

BTW Chinch Bugs in Florida have become resistant to Bifenthrin.

wow,, :waving:

[RigglePLC]

Armadillo,
I am from Michigan, still 6 inches snow here. Don't know about brown patch. If you don't mind me asking. Is this watered twice per week (both houses?)? Even in hot weather? For how long? How many inches of water per week is that? Applied at what time of day? What is evapotranspiration loss in San Antonio?

Around here premium lawns are usually watered for a half hour every day about 6 am. (Of course we begin irrigation about May 10th.)

No trees--the area looks like partial sun--is it? Is camera facing north? More green near the (warm) house as Ric said.
It appears that there is considerable slope toward the center. The high areas would have much better drainage than the low area. Is there ever standing water in the low center area? Does it get soft and muddy? Drainage water would flow towards the camera--right? The fence would block air movement so that could contribute to higher humidity. I think I see water marks on the fence--where the sprinkers hit it. Spray heads or rotors? Located where?

[LawnDawg65]

will look alot like brown patch, but starts out in circles - from the picture you showed us, it appears to be a bad drainage problem in the middle- grade out that slope, apply some PCNB and you will be good to go!

[Runner]

I somehow pictured the camera facing south (the actual photographer facing south). Please DO let us know what direction it is.

[pesticide]

i'd be willing to bet its an irrigation related fungal issue. you stated you turned off the sprinkler zone to that area, keep it off, look at the weather wear pattern on the wooden fence in the background. you can see where the sprinkler systems clearly overlap by the pattern of fading on the fence stain.

[quiet]

I'll offer this small piece of advice: stop guessing. Take a sample to your county extension service. We have a great extension service here in TX. They'll ID the problem, and you can treat accordingly. And now is the time to begin action as the turf is beginning to emerge from "dormancy".

Here's a tip: check that soil ph! And you may as well get a soil test.

(Sometimes the "cheap stuff" can be a significant part of the best solution in disease prevention, right Ric? It's fun to go full circle in one's thought process, ain't it! The stuff we learn along the way!)

[Ric]

I'll offer this small piece of advice: stop guessing. Take a sample to your county extension service. We have a great extension service here in TX. They'll ID the problem, and you can treat accordingly. And now is the time to begin action as the turf is beginning to emerge from "dormancy".

Here's a tip: check that soil ph! And you may as well get a soil test.

(Sometimes the "cheap stuff" can be a significant part of the best solution in disease prevention, right Ric? It's fun to go full circle in one's thought process, ain't it! The stuff we learn along the way!)

Quiet

Best advice so far in this Thread

I spent the last 60 days in the Army at Brooks Army Hospital at Fort Sam Houston and was discharged from the service in San Antonio Tx. That was Dec 1965 and Jan 1966. I remember San Antonio as a wonderful town, but very cold that winter. I am surprised that St Augustine will even grow in that area. Pictures are very hard to see everything you need to see. I could be wrong with my diagnoses. It seem I am the lone wolf on this diagnosis. I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again on many things, I am sure.

[quiet]

But you may be absolutely right. It has been an unusually chilly (it never really stays "cold"!) winter here in S. Central TX. Had lows in the teens the week of Feb 12 -16.

And my diagnosis? I wouldn't hazard one. A lotta that brown grass looked to me like dormant Bermuda that may have invaded those areas. That could also explain the brown in that area. But I don't see as well as I used to, and guessing via a picture at this time of the year (before the lawns have broken "dormancy") seems as productive as . . . well, a guy from New Jersey making a guess!

[LawnDawg65]

Quiet

Best advice so far in this Thread

I spent the last 60 days in the Army at Brooks Army Hospital at Fort Sam Houston and was discharged from the service in San Antonio Tx. That was Dec 1965 and Jan 1966. I remember San Antonio as a wonderful town, but very cold that winter. I am surprised that St Augustine will even grow in that area. Pictures are very hard to see everything you need to see. I could be wrong with my diagnoses. It seem I am the lone wolf on this diagnosis. I have been wrong before and I will be wrong again on many things, I am sure.

San Antonio is as warm as Florida- " TAKE ALL PATCH" - it seems the "EXPERT YOU ARE" you are not aware of this disease-- google it.

[Ric]

San Antonio is as warm as Florida- " TAKE ALL PATCH" - it seems the "EXPERT YOU ARE" you are not aware of this disease-- google it.

LawnDawg

No need to Google it. Vargas covers it nicely in Chapter 4 of "Management of Turfgrass Diseases"

Gaeumannomyces graminis var graminis Is real fun to say and blows peoples mind when you say it. It is the Scientific name for Take all Root Rot. Ggg is found mostly in Fla., Tx., Ga., Al. and Calif. It is a soil born Disease the same as Rhizoctonia solani (Brown Patch). However Ggg will effect roots and by the time it express it self the Stolons have no roots and pull right out of the ground. Early detection of Ggg can be seen in early mornings when the Myclea of the pathogen can be seen growing on top of the turf. Ggg is a disease that will attack mostly Mismanaged turf that is already under stress. Although it can effect St Augustine, It is found more common in Hybrid Bermuda

BTW In one of my college classes Ggg was a standard joke when talking about the Professor who loved to say the full name of Ggg.

[LawnDawg65]

LawnDawg

No need to Google it. Vargas covers it nicely in Chapter 4 of "Management of Turfgrass Diseases"

Gaeumannomyces graminis var graminis Is real fun to say and blows peoples mind when you say it. It is the Scientific name for Take all Root Rot. Ggg is found mostly in Fla., Tx., Ga., Al. and Calif. It is a soil born Disease the same as Rhizoctonia solani (Brown Patch). However Ggg will effect roots and by the time it express it self the Stolons have no roots and pull right out of the ground. Early detection of Ggg can be seen in early mornings when the Myclea of the pathogen can be seen growing on top of the turf. Ggg is a disease that will attack mostly Mismanaged turf that is already under stress. Although it can effect St Augustine, It is found more common in Hybrid Bermuda

You are in Florida- this is texas- we are in a major drought, with alot of rainfall this winter, water restrictions for most. Everything is under stress here, with all the rainfall at once it sure didn't help the St. augs coming back this spring. "take all patch" and "brown patch" are affecting a large percentage of yards-- not to mention the large spray companies applying a pre-m to the already affected yards. Areas of the country vary greatly - depending on the weather- even though it is the same grass. oh and when I say drought-- the Dallas area alone is 34 inches behind on rainfall the last 2 years ---- water restrictions once a week for most - i saw things last year you don't see very often in force --- like bermda mites -they went crazy. as always just my opinion --- but we in this area are seeing alot of "take all patch"
BTW In one of my college classes Ggg was a standard joke when talking about the Professor who loved to say the full name of Ggg.

you are in Florida- this is texas. We are in a major drought, 34 inches behind the last 2 years - everthing is under stress. We had alot of rain this winter all at once, this is causing havoc on st. augs coming out this spring. We are seeing alot of "take all patch" and "brown patch" areas of the country vary greatly depending on the weather - even though the grass is the same.

[quiet]

Not arguing with you Dawg. The drought has been severe in the SA-Austin corridor. 7.5" of rain in Jan, now nothing at all in Feb. But the treatment for BP is a little different than Take-All. If he keeps treating for BP, he'll only make a little progress for short periods if it's really Take All.

Take All can be kept under control, but you've really gotta plan and act . . . now! I think it's of the most critical importance to get root establishment going in the spring, before the Big Heat hits. Thus your spring fert part of your program becomes entirely critical and totally dependent on what disease it is, also.

If you guess wrong, you'll lose big. Don't guess.

[Ric]

you are in Florida- this is texas. We are in a major drought, 34 inches behind the last 2 years - everthing is under stress. We had alot of rain this winter all at once, this is causing havoc on st. augs coming out this spring. We are seeing alot of "take all patch" and "brown patch" areas of the country vary greatly depending on the weather - even though the grass is the same.

LawnDawg

No I am not up on Texas Weather and knowledge of the weather conditions is important to Diagnosing Turf Problems. However I am surprised that Take All(Ggg) would be expressing itself this time of year. Brown Patch I can understand being active at this time of year.

BTW Brownsville Texas, which is the southern most point in Texas, is due west of Tampa Fla. or about 150 miles north of me. San Antonio is more due west of New Orleans La. San Antonio is also at a higher elevation than Florida. I believe you are in Cold Hardiness Zone 8a and I am in Zone 10b

Quite

Last Time I checked U of Fla was not recommending any Type of Chemical treatment for Ggg on St Augustine turf. I have only had one case of Ggg on St Augustine and that was a new customer. I used the Bermuda Grass protocol which was treating with a good systemic Fungicide along with Cultural practices. Cleary's 3336 was the recommendation by U of Fla for Bermuda. We see very little Ggg on St Augustine here But Bermuda is a different Story.

[LawnDawg65]

LawnDawg

No I am not up on Texas Weather and knowledge of the weather conditions is important to Diagnosing Turf Problems. However I am surprised that Take All(Ggg) would be expressing itself this time of year. Brown Patch I can understand being active at this time of year.

BTW Brownsville Texas, which is the southern most point in Texas, is due west of Tampa Fla. or about 150 miles north of me. San Antonio is more due west of New Orleans La. San Antonio is also at a higher elevation than Florida. I believe you are in Cold Hardiness Zone 8a and I am in Zone 10b

Quite

Last Time I checked U of Fla was not recommending any Type of Chemical treatment for Ggg on St Augustine turf. I have only had one case of Ggg on St Augustine and that was a new customer. I used the Bermuda Grass protocol which was treating with a good systemic Fungicide along with Cultural practices. Cleary's 3336 was the recommendation by U of Fla for Bermuda. We see very little Ggg on St Augustine here But Bermuda is a different Story.


You would argue with the Pope about being Catholic, Google take all patch and it shows the boys in Austin having a terrible time with it. Oh and WE DON'T NEED U OF FLA TELLING US ANYTHING == WE HAVE TEXAS A&M, WITH THE A BEING AGRICULTURE.

[Ric]

You would argue with the Pope about being Catholic, Google take all patch and it shows the boys in Austin having a terrible time with it. Oh and WE DON'T NEED U OF FLA TELLING US ANYTHING == WE HAVE TEXAS A&M, WITH THE A BEING AGRICULTURE.

LawnDawg

Maybe you should have a little more respect for U of Fla. The fact is Texas A&M and U of Fla. work closely together on many things including the Development of Floratam grass.

Most A&M colleges are in Fact land grant Colleges set up by the Federal government in the early 20th century. U of Fla is in fact a Land grant College. The A & M was to help Farmers, The M being Mechanical for the repair and development of Farm equipment. But then they taught you that at PS 13.

BTW The Pope can be hard headed and fun to argue with. To bad he isn't Catholic.

[heritage]

How about sending a sample to the local turf university....their diagonostic lab, so the can look at it under the scope.

That what I would do at this point.

No disrespect to the experts posting....lots's of know how here, and I am sure many would agree, Don't Guess....Test.


Pete

[Armadillolawncare]

How big of a sample would I need to take to the extension office? Do I actually take them a section of the turf or jsut the soil from the area?
I already am planning to get a soil analysis done and I will be top dressing the area within 7-10 days with Dr Gobbler organic compost.

[MStine315]

Take a section that includes both infected and uninfected turf, in other words, from the edge of the patch.

[heritage]

If you have a cup cutter you can take a sample to 3-4" into the soil. Or you could use a tree spade or hand trowel and make a triangle down to 3-4" depth.

Bring the entire sample including the turf as well as notes on location, and conditions there.

Let us know what you've got.

Pete

[txgrassguy]

I have met with and discussed several different types of soil and tissue borne pathogens with the Texas A&M people in Bryan College Station.
The predominant factor in determining the causal agent for the turf's decline has not been statistically important with regards to Ggg here in central Texas.
What is often the case is that the turf is under existent stress, poorly managed and is misdiagnosed.
The drought here in Texas has severely impacted not only the turf but insect populations and their damage to turf.
After submitting over ninety soil and tissue samples to Texas A&M I have not had a culture return with the causal agent of the turf decline being Ggg but rather this disease, being saphrophitic and opportunistic had appeared as a result of other stressors.
I have been advocating an intense aerification program coupled with a good deep tine raking to remove the accumulated undecomposed organic matter and a good quality PSC turf fertilizer.
After approximately one season, I have essentially eliminated almost all curative and preventative fungicide apps to St. Augustine which I had been making before I initiated my program.

[Ric]

I have met with and discussed several different types of soil and tissue borne pathogens with the Texas A&M people in Bryan College Station.
The predominant factor in determining the causal agent for the turf's decline has not been statistically important with regards to Ggg here in central Texas.
What is often the case is that the turf is under existent stress, poorly managed and is misdiagnosed.
The drought here in Texas has severely impacted not only the turf but insect populations and their damage to turf.
After submitting over ninety soil and tissue samples to Texas A&M I have not had a culture return with the causal agent of the turf decline being Ggg but rather this disease, being saphrophitic and opportunistic had appeared as a result of other stressors.
I have been advocating an intense aerification program coupled with a good deep tine raking to remove the accumulated undecomposed organic matter and a good quality PSC turf fertilizer.
After approximately one season, I have essentially eliminated almost all curative and preventative fungicide apps to St. Augustine which I had been making before I initiated my program.

txgrassguy

Great post and you explained Ggg a step be on my simple statement that it was a Disease that attacked Stressed and Mismanaged Turf only. At present time we are not having the Problem with Ggg that Texas is Having.

I would be interested in seeing your Treatment results because By the time Ggg sets in there is already Fatal problems in the turf.

[txgrassguy]

Ric, since I don't have a digital camera I really can't post before and after pictures.
This program I have mentioned has really paid off in several ways.
Spring green up is MUCH faster, irrigation use is down by about 30% and more importantly the phone is ringing for this program at non-customer homes.
The fert I have used with good success is Lesco's 15-5-10 with 2% Fe and I am only fertilizing 4 X year at about 1 lb per thousand N.
The sites I have under scheduled maintenance have the clippings collected all year and I am deducing the removal of these clippings plus various deciduous tree leaves is having a positive sustained impact on the soil pH.
Recent soil tests reflect this and I have seen about a 15% increase in the reserve hydraulic conductivity with corresponding increases in detectable micro nutrient contents being detected by the soil analysis.
Previous soil tests were recommending higher application amounts of ammonium based, quickly available N sources with additional apps of sulfur yet I noticed a three fold increase in Rhizoctonia and tissue blight.
Goes to show you that the lab weenies need to observe the sight before blanket recommendations.

[Ric]

Ric, since I don't have a digital camera I really can't post before and after pictures.
This program I have mentioned has really paid off in several ways.
Spring green up is MUCH faster, irrigation use is down by about 30% and more importantly the phone is ringing for this program at non-customer homes.
The fert I have used with good success is Lesco's 15-5-10 with 2% Fe and I am only fertilizing 4 X year at about 1 lb per thousand N.
The sites I have under scheduled maintenance have the clippings collected all year and I am deducing the removal of these clippings plus various deciduous tree leaves is having a positive sustained impact on the soil pH.
Recent soil tests reflect this and I have seen about a 15% increase in the reserve hydraulic conductivity with corresponding increases in detectable micro nutrient contents being detected by the soil analysis.
Previous soil tests were recommending higher application amounts of ammonium based, quickly available N sources with additional apps of sulfur yet I noticed a three fold increase in Rhizoctonia and tissue blight.
Goes to show you that the lab weenies need to observe the sight before blanket recommendations.


txgrassguy

I am glad your program is working for you. That program would be just the opposite of what I need to do on Calcareous Sandy Soil. I need all the organic matter I can get. My normal pH is 9.5 so raising pH is not my thing. Hydraulic conductivity is basically non existent as is CEC in sandy soil. Maybe that is why we don't have any trouble with Ggg. Rhizoctonia or winter patch as people here like to call because ot the time of year it expresses itself is about the only Fungus that we have regular problems with. Gray leaf spot we fertilize to out grow and Dollar spot we treat the same as Rhizoctonia. Gone are the days of Magcozeb one of the best and cheapest Fungicides we had. By adding Lovelands LI 700 Magcozeb became a systemic that could be applied at half rate one time to cure Rhizoctonia. But the EPA has axed it like a lot of other great products because Idiots over used them.

Each area has it's problems and right now Chinch bugs are resistant to Befenthrin and other Pyethrins in my area. There are so few Organo phosphate left and those that are, Cost.

In Edit

Caramates, (Sevin) do a very poor job on Chinch Bugs and Ants. However Grubs and caterpillars it works fine on.

[turfsolutions]

Brown patch usually only damages the turf blades with only crown and root damage under the most extreme conditions. During hot, drought periods around here almost all lawns succumb to brown patch. They eventually go dormant, look like crap, but bounce right back after the weather turns. I do preventative aps for those who sign up.

The soil borne disease that is most damaging around here is Summer Patch. Summer Patch is a soil born disease that attacks the roots when the soil temps reach a certain level. If you have a bad case and have not pre treated, by the time you see the damage on top, it is too late, the lawn will start to peel up and does not recover well without renovation.

I realize it's a totally different ball game down there. But I thought it was worth the mention.

[txgrassguy]

Disease management in C4 turf is a completely different ballgame than C3 turf.
When I ran a golf course up north, NE PA area, preventive spraying was the name of the game.
Down in Central Texas, where soil temps in the summer routinely average over 95*F, it is actually insect pressure which creates the greatest problems as their damage almost always leads to a saphrophitic breakout due to the stress from the insects.

[txgrassguy]

Ric, most of my turf sites average around 8.4 to 8.7 pH levels but I am fighting clay based soils, not calcareous sand based profiles.
No amount of organic matter here will help unless some of the exchange sites on the clay particles can be broken first, and the only real economical way to do that which I have found has been the program I described earlier.
Interestingly enough, improving the gaseous exchange capability of the soil seems to be the biggest improvement I have found as with the good quality PSC type ferts available, nutrient availability with out excessive leaf tissue growth is much more easily available now.
I do, however, intend to start trials on growth regulators, principly on Bermudagrass, to see if I can control the initial growth flush while taking advantage of the accelerated root development to assist in drought management.

[Armadillolawncare]

I took a turf sample today and am going to take it to the county extension office tomorrow. After reading all the posts and doing further research on the Texas A&M website regarding the differences between Brown Patch and Take all patch I belive it is Brown patch. Brown patch has rotting leaves and a circular shape. Upon closer examination of the turf sample I took today I did not see any rotting roots which is what you get with Take All Patch.

For the ones that asked I was facing South East when I took the pictures at approximately noon.

[quiet]

Ric, most of my turf sites average around 8.4 to 8.7 pH levels but I am fighting clay based soils, not calcareous sand based profiles.
No amount of organic matter here will help unless some of the exchange sites on the clay particles can be broken first, and the only real economical way to do that which I have found has been the program I described earlier.
Interestingly enough, improving the gaseous exchange capability of the soil seems to be the biggest improvement I have found as with the good quality PSC type ferts available, nutrient availability with out excessive leaf tissue growth is much more easily available now.
I do, however, intend to start trials on growth regulators, principly on Bermudagrass, to see if I can control the initial growth flush while taking advantage of the accelerated root development to assist in drought management.


Interesting post. And breaking this down to a quantitive, measurable data is extremely valuable. One day, maybe I'll get off my dead ass and do that! In the meantime, in the early spring, I treat the visble patch area with Peat Moss, and use a MU based fert (62%) with high manganese content for Round 1 (of four). Meanwhile I spoon feed with Ammonium Sulfate. . . and keep the Cleary 3336G handy!

The heavy clay soils make this a challenge, but when you use the clay to your advantage, it becomes an asset. Water 1/2" on consecutive days. Then let it dry out. So many problems are associated with improper watering.

[heritage]

I took a turf sample today and am going to take it to the county extension office tomorrow. After reading all the posts and doing further research on the Texas A&M website regarding the differences between Brown Patch and Take all patch I belive it is Brown patch. Brown patch has rotting leaves and a circular shape. Upon closer examination of the turf sample I took today I did not see any rotting roots which is what you get with Take All Patch.

For the ones that asked I was facing South East when I took the pictures at approximately noon.

Good for you Armadillo LC,

In the meantime keep learning from pros like Txgrassguy and Ric, and offer improvements in the Cultural Care of these problem sites to your clients, as well as Proper Chemical Application(s).

Great Stuff Guys!

Pete

[GroundKprs]

My gosh, if the site could design a way to find the rare intelligent postings like a few in this thread, I might come back more than once a year.

Armadillo, the first post in THIS THREAD (http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=22508)has a picture of soil sampling with a cup cutter and a spade.

Hi, Pete - been too busy with the grandson to get back to Jersey. I'm still remembering, though. Someday!

[heritage]

Hi Jim,

Enjoy your grandson!!!

Jersey will be here for you.

Spring's coming :)

Regards,
Pete