How quickly did your business grow?

[Yard Cowboy]

Hi guys. New to the site and have a feeling I will be here often for answers and ideas. I have worked with others in the industry part time on the side that already had established territories. I have now taken on a partner and am looking to slowly get this thing going. We have several friends and family members helping us via word of mouth and flyers, and plan to drop about 3-5,000 flyers in our area. I have seen a 3% callback rate on those, which would be about what I would expect. However, how quickly can we expect to be doing this full time (we both work together presently for someone else in a completely different industry) and will be working on this on days off and evenings.

Thanks for your input.

[DaughtryLC]

Word of advice Drop the Partner, I know personally!!

[Mow It All llc]

I wish i listend to this advice when it was told to me.....I bought my buisness established. I had 45 accounts with it, and wanted more. i was told to start with that for the first year.....I then added about 50 accounts that same year, then went and got 2 apartment complexs and a strip mall..I hired 2 guys and bought some extra equipment. Within 3 weeks I was getting frazzled as more people called. i turned some people away and gave a few of my accounts to a friend. That was all last year......Im now going into my second full year with enough work for me to handle but not to much where i can keep up. I agree with Daughtry NO PARTNER. I thought about it with a friend who also owns a landscaping company.Take your time.........

[CoreyD]

welcome to the site yard cowboy... what part of SC are you from?

[Turf66]

NO PARTENERS!!!!!!!!!!!!!PERIOD. If it is a friend then leave it at that. I to made this mistake with a friend and almost lost a business and a friend. It cost me some money to buy him out and a lesson learned. You want total control of your own destiny, when I was ready to grow he was ready for a pay raise. You said you both work another job, I also work another job and operate two maintenance crews and one spray truck and am expecting big growth in the chemical business this year. All the money is mine as well as all the headaches but at the end of the day I don't have to answer to anyone.

[LawnSharks]

You've received some very good advice here! My suggestion, again, take your time. You may want 100-150 accounts now but wait until June/July when you are covered up, it's 100 degrees outside and it has rained 3 days in a row. You'll quickly realize... man, I wished I had grown a little slower. Time management is key!!!!! Helpers are great but partners seldom work out the way you anticipate.
Good luck!

[JeffW0011]

I don't know how long it will take to grow your base, but I do know from personal experience that partners are a nightmare. My first business venture out of college was a pizza/sub shop. It was all my money and my credit that opened the place. I stupidly brought in a partner, one of my best friends (at the time) and a guy that supposedly knew a lot about the industry. You really don't know a person until you enter into business with them. Needless to say the **** eventually decended into a total nightmare and culminated in the only fist fight I have ever been in in my adult life. I lost a bunch of money and a good friend. I don't know if your partner is also a good friend but be very cautios....

[Yard Cowboy]

Thanks for all of the responses guys. Although, I would count him as a friend, he is more or less a partner now (we don't hang out too much in our off time). Together, we run a Fitness Equipment business presently. We have turned it into a million dollar a year gig and have little to show for it as we run it for someone else. Again, I appreciate where you guys are coming from, but at this point, there isn't much I can do, as the LLC is already formed and most advertising (business cards, flyers, etc.) are done.

Our plan is to start it together slowly since we aren't counting on the income. However, we both do desire to eventually get out from under the corporate rug and on our own. We have been to the lawyer and have written up a partnership agreement within the LLC. My biggest question was how feasible is it to be doing this full time within 1 year? After a year, our hope is that we will both have our own crew(s).

Oh yeah, Corey. I'm in the Upstate. Greenville.

Again, Thanks for all of the info guys!!

[Baywatch]

The only time you want a partner if you can't do it yourself, or you don't have the capital. I often have friends wanting to be partners on some of my real estate purchases and I always ask them why? Though they don't say this, the answer is that they don't know how to do it and they don't have enough money to do it on their own. Do it yourself, you will be much happier in the long run.

If you end up with the partner, make sure that everything is spelled out in writing as far as who owns how much etc. etc. Remember this, who ever brung the money keeps the money and the guy with the deeper pockets always wins!!

[Yard Cowboy]

That is pretty much it. Being a Father and a full time employee that works 50+ hours a week, I do/will need some help. At this point, we are both evenly vested and again have a written key man agreement to protect each other that spells out most everything; he goes to jail, gets hooked on drugs, dies, etc. We will both be bringing some of our own equipment, but the lawyer has outlined who brought what.

[bigmudder77]

NO PARTNER every one has different needs and wants and a different perspective on things one might want new equitment the other wont but whats stopping the other guy from going out and buying all new stuff and causing you to go under NOTHING is stopping the other guy.

personal exp. NO PARTNER just hire people if you need the extra help cause the good thing about them you can fire them (or lay them off) what ever same thing

[irishgoldcleanups]

NO PARTNER every one has different needs and wants and a different perspective on things one might want new equitment the other wont but whats stopping the other guy from going out and buying all new stuff and causing you to go under NOTHING is stopping the other guy.

personal exp. NO PARTNER just hire people if you need the extra help cause the good thing about them you can fire them (or lay them off) what ever same thing

hire as needed thats what i do. post an ad two days ahead of time on craigslist you will get at least ten phone numbers in one day

[Yard Cowboy]

Thanks for the "no partner" responses guys, but again it is too late for that. This is not our livelihood (yet) and we view ourselves as employees that will take a percentage share of what comes in. We have a lawyer and agreements in place to protect ourselves from one another. Every check written will need 2 signatures. He will not be able to purchase equipment under our company name without my apporoval and vice versa.

Let's ignore that I said I had a partner and go back to the original question. How long did it take you to grow your business to "full time"? How long to get 50 accounts, 75, 100? I realize markets are different as are sales approaches, etc. In general, I am trying to find out how quickly we can ramp up..

[daveintoledo]

Thanks for the "no partner" responses guys, but again it is too late for that. This is not our livelihood (yet) and we view ourselves as employees that will take a percentage share of what comes in. We have a lawyer and agreements in place to protect ourselves from one another. Every check written will need 2 signatures. He will not be able to purchase equipment under our company name without my apporoval and vice versa.

Let's ignore that I said I had a partner and go back to the original question. How long did it take you to grow your business to "full time"? How long to get 50 accounts, 75, 100? I realize markets are different as are sales approaches, etc. In general, I am trying to find out how quickly we can ramp up..

your screwed, go back to the drawing board... you already are too busy to invest the time it will take to succeed... and kiss your friend good bye.. no partner no how...

you really dont have the time to do this... so you lost some money forming the llc... stop now before you lose the rest of the money you have....

[Yard Cowboy]

LOL You guys are killing me. I asked a simple question about how long it took you guys to ramp up and all you can do is tell me how I won't succeed because I have a partner.

We have a total of $600 invested thus far(partner and myself both out of pocket $300 each total)and already have 3 jobs (1 daycare and 2 residential accounts). One of the residential accounts paid $700 up front for fertilization, so I haven't lost a thing as of yet.. Thanks for all of the "expert" advice however..

As far as having "time to do this", I am limited, which is one reason I have a partner. Again, I will have 2 days to devote full time as will my partner (4 days total). Once we fill those days, we'll hire as needed.

[daveintoledo]

just telling you the TRUTH... start over.... and that daycare center,..... you have liability insurance and are licensed right.... when they find out your not insured you will loose that account...get it fast....

now listen... new people come here everyday.. and ask many of the same questions.... then they are not happy when the answers they get are not what they want to hear...

like it or not, you have been given the correct advice on how to start in this business, we have seen the others fail trying it your way.... happens here all the time..... they are here, and by the end of the season, they are out of business already...

take it for what it is worth... advice given by people already in the industry, who have already seen the same mistakes......

a wise man learns from others mistakes, a fool thinks they are different, and it wont happen to them

took three years to really get off the ground....

[PTP]

I had 120 regular accounts by the end of my first year.

If you want that kind of growth rate, you need to be to work full time at this - actually it is more like 2 full time jobs. Also, I was able to live without a steady paycheck for the first year. My gross was high but because of the growth, the net was low. However, once I was established, the second year was quite profitable.

Also, running a business with employees while you are still working your other job will be a nightmare - not impossible but very difficult.

If you are going to succeed in this business, you need to give it 100% and that includes working full time at it - not some other job.

[Yard Cowboy]

Thanks Dave. I don't pretend to know all the answers and am open to criticism and advice. I was just getting a bit frustrated as I asked a question, and I think only 2-3 people actually answered it. The rest gave unsolicited advice as to how I should operate. I know more than 1 crew in the area that operate via a partnership and are doing well. I am sure more times than not, that isn't the case however and do appreciate all of you guys trying to look out for me.

Again, we have a partnership presently (been working together for 3 years)at our present jobs that is our primary source of income. The lawn care company simply put is what we enjoy doing. We have an agreement (done by our lawyer) that puts it all out there (how we are paid, who has what responsibility, who brought what with them, etc.) My neighbor actually does this (with a partner I might add) and has given me some advice as to what I should do to protect myself against my "partner". We are looking to build the business to make as much as we can, but we aren't looking to do this overnight and replace our income with it just yet (at least not for a year or 2), which led to my question, how long did it take you to ramp up your business..

[Yard Cowboy]

And yes, I do have $1Mil liabilty insurance as well as property insurance.

[daveintoledo]

like i said, really takes 2 or 3 years to start making any money....start slow, lots of guys get in over there head the first year not knowing what it takes, or how to bid properly, or that there residential equimpent is going to fail, leaving them with nothing to service the accounts with

good luck..:)

[Yard Cowboy]

Thanks for the info Dave. And I do understand what you guys are telling me. I am already presently in a bit of a partnership with him and we complement one another well. Our hope is, we can do this full time for OURSELVES one day instead of putting in 50+ hours a week and making someone else rich.. We are going to ramp up slowly and keep our fingers crossed that we can make it happen. I don't think ANY partnership is smooth sailing. Like a marriage, it takes work, which neither of us are afraid of..

[ffemt1271]

i started with no accounts, bought commercial equipment and turned a profit in first year. second year i added a few residentials, third year i added some commercials , 4th yeari added 5 apartment complexes, already bid on 7 more for this year whick brings me to about 50 accounts. i hire help as needed, but might be hiring a few guys part time this year.

[Yard Cowboy]

Thanks for the response ffemt1271. We hope to have a similar pursuit as far as your rampup went. Start slowly and contuniously build. There are a TONS of homes (more than 100 neighborhoods) in less than 5 square miles. If I actually want to travel 10-15 miles I can get to hundreds more neighborhoods. We have progressively built up all the equipment we should need (went with Echo) for the basic job (2-String trimmers, Hedge trimmer, extended hedge trimmer w/ articulating blade, backpack blower, and a couple of backpack sprayers for chemicals. 2 self propelled 21" Craftsman mowers that work like magic for our lawns. Since most of our target market is 1/4 of an acre to a 1/2 acre, we have not yet had a need to buy a good tractor. A good friend owns his own flag football league, for adults believe it or not and has told me that will be my first REAL commercial job-3 football fields and 2 soft ball fields as well. At that point, we will entertain which brands are the best of it's class and try as many of those as we can and roll..

Good luck to you all. Even DaveinToledo... who buy the way, is where my best friend is from.

[lawn guy1350]

Well good luck with the craftsman...those arent going to last you very long...And i hope your going to be getting commercial equipment like a ZTR, not a tractor...I would seriously give the craftsmans the boot, and go with commercial pushes....Like Toro...

[Yard Cowboy]

LOL on the Craftsman, I knew someone had to. For small jobs, which is what I presently have, it does great. Not once in 2 years has it not fired on the first tug and cuts beautifully. My neighbor that does this, actually went out and got one because it worked better than his Toro. Go figure. We'll ride the wheels off our 2 Craftsman which do have a few miles on them and then get 2 commercial walk behind mowers. Also looking to eventually get a ZTR. Still not sure how big I would really need. Not a lot to market to over an acre or so. Any suggestions on an inexpensive ZTR that does the trick. I see primarily Bermuda and Fescue here. I have seen mixed reviews on Lesco equipment which was a consideration. I use their fertilizer and seed and have gotten good results.

[justanotherlawnguy]

You can get as big as you want as fast as you want. I started out with a 36" wb and all Echo equipment. In 3 months, I bought a brand new lazer hp 48 and was booked solid, month later bought a 16" landscape trailer. The 10 footer sure didnt last long. Ended first year with like 60 customers all paying monthly.
2nd year- weeded out all PITA customers, charged more, worked less
3rd year-bought 60" lazer Z, 16" v nose enclosed trailer, all new 2 cycle stuff
All that pretty much working by myself.

FOr this year, I just bought a 14" dump trailer (that thing is the bomb) and for the ytd I have already done better then the previous years and have hardly worked at all.

Just depends how "smart" you want to work.

Last words of advice, ditch the craftsman and just get a wb or a z right off the bat. 90% of my props are 1/4 - 1/2 acre and I wouldnt have it any other way...
just my $0.02...

[justanotherlawnguy]

whoops hit the submit button to many times

[justanotherlawnguy]

whoops hit the submit button to many times

[Yard Cowboy]

Thanks for the response. We are most certainly going to get better equipment as we need it. Right now, we only have a few small jobs (1/4 lots) that the Craftsman is able to handle. I have a friend that owns a flag football league and has 3 small fields (aren't as big as a standard field) he is going to pay me to cut in late Sping/Summer. At that point, I will be investing in a commercial mower. Just keeping overhead as low as possible for as long as possible. The Echo equipment has been wonderful thus far on the few we do have.

Anyone have any input on Lesco ZTR's or WB's? I have used their fertilizer, seed, and Prosecutor and been very satisfied, but haven't seen/heard much about their equipment.

[NELawnCare]

I'll chime in and ask a noobie question. Why don't I see many of you experienced people recommending Ferris? I bought a 1500Z, am I going to be sorry with that equipment? It looks like most folks are recommending Toros.

[toac]

yard cowboy, stick with the craftman until they break, quality of cut degrades or, you grow out of them.

[THEGOLDPRO]

it all depends on whome your partner is, my brother and i are partners and have never had any problems we both have the same outlook on the business and the same views, yeah we argue from time to time, but what brothers dont do that.

[Yard Cowboy]

Most certainly Toac. It isn't the best mower in the world, no doubt, but for my use presently it does a quality job and has been more than reliable. Again, I recognize that as I grow, I will need to get different "quality" equipment.

As far as the partner goes, I'm not too concerned because I have done things via the Lawyer to protect myself and this isn't the first venture we have taken on together. Our responsibilities are all laid out for the most part (I am sure there will be some surprises-life is full of them and business is no different). A healthy percentage of each job ALWAYS goes into the company for equipment, expenses, etc. The nice part is neither of us NEED ANY of the money we will make. We just want to yard by yard build it into something. I would much rather work for myself than someone else (even though one could make a case for each individual customer being your Boss)..