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View Full Version : This cost ford all it has left..


mrusk
02-27-2007, 11:58 AM
http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/070226/20070226005535.html?.v=1


Navistar ain't happy with ford.

pclawncare
02-27-2007, 12:02 PM
That sucks for ford time to get a cummins. Im joking guys to get all crazy and start telling me that dodges suck.

tthomass
02-27-2007, 12:12 PM
dayyyyyyym

DUSTYCEDAR
02-27-2007, 12:45 PM
that aint good

GreenN'Clean
02-27-2007, 01:41 PM
Not good at all

Budget
02-27-2007, 02:04 PM
So does that mean they stop right now?

lawn guy1350
02-27-2007, 02:07 PM
nope, but i hope they can work it out.

lawn guy1350
02-27-2007, 02:08 PM
yep theyve stopped. they sent i believe around 10,000 engines. so thats all that ford has to work with.

J&R Landscaping
02-27-2007, 02:27 PM
Ford was already going down hill and this isn't gonna help matters none! If this disaggreement keeps up, Dodges hole in the market will rise far and wide once the new 4500 and 5500 c&c trucks are introduced on the market!

pclawncare
02-27-2007, 02:53 PM
Ford was already going down hill and this isn't gonna help matters none! If this disaggreement keeps up, Dodges hole in the market will rise far and wide once the new 4500 and 5500 c&c trucks are introduced on the market!

I second that opinion and i do like the look of the new dodges. According to what i have read the transmissions are very much improved and if this is true it will be a great assett to cummins/dodge combination

Gravel Rat
02-27-2007, 02:54 PM
I'am not surprised. Dodge is also in the red too and with rumors GM is going to buy out Chrysler. All the North American automakers are struggling.

pclawncare
02-27-2007, 03:20 PM
Ya i am willing to bet that nissan and toyota will come out with 3/4 ton and or 1 ton models soon. Probably 2 to 4 years from now. I know i have herd rumors that toyota is already in the works of developing one and with the posibility of a desiel that i believe toyota makes. I could very well be wrong about that but i though i read somewhere that toyota makes their own desiel for their cab overs if that is true then they already have everything they need the just need to build a cab and chassie to handle it. With the new tundras numbers of pulling over 10,000 pounds they are gettin pretty close to the 3/4 ton market. If these numbers are correct which they probably are not as i have an 06 tundra and i think they say they can haul around 7000 or a hair over but i pulled my trailer empty weighting about 2500 pounds and it struggled very bad i was not very happy with the performance of towing. The 4.7 seems a little underpowered and has to hit high rpm befor it really starts to pull but who knows with that new engine they are running

JB1
02-27-2007, 03:58 PM
I;m surprised that this has not happened sooner, its no secret that Ford and Navistar engineers are like cats and dogs together, if its ten thousand engines thats about a weeks worth of production for Ford.

tthomass
02-27-2007, 06:10 PM
I wonder what the issue is.

-go chevy! haha

muddstopper
02-27-2007, 07:10 PM
Ford has acussed International of not honoring warranty claims on their engines. Supposely, navistar already owes Ford a bunch of money on warranty issues and is why Ford has suspended payments to International.
I look for Ford to comeout with Jdeere engines in the near future.

wriken
02-27-2007, 07:28 PM
Probably 2 to 4 years from now. I know i have herd rumors that toyota is already in the works of developing one and with the posibility of a desiel that i believe toyota makes. I could very well be wrong about that but i though i read somewhere that toyota makes their own desiel for their cab overs if that is true then they already have everything they need the just need to build a cab and chassie to handle it.
I heard maybe a Cat motor, don't quote me on that though. My next diesel may be a toyota:)

pclawncare
02-27-2007, 07:39 PM
Does anyone on here know if toyota makes their own diesel motor for sure? wriken we may all be driving toyota,nissan, and honda in a few years if the domestic vehicle companys keep going in the same direction they are now which is down fast very very fast like a sone in a pond fast hell maybe even faster than that

supercuts
02-27-2007, 09:21 PM
i heard the 6.4 is a $10,000 option now too, not sure how true it is, dealer told me that a few months back trying to get me into an 06'

mrusk
02-27-2007, 09:31 PM
GM is the only one doing good right now. They turned themselves around.

Mike33
02-27-2007, 09:47 PM
I dont think ford is going to roll over dead. I heard talk earlier about cat or mack getting involved. Dodge did the right move years ago by going with cummins a long proven diesel maker. I actually have heard of only 1 person in my area of having a bad cummins and im a ford man. Ford should of made a move after the 03 6.0 lemons.
Mike

pclawncare
02-27-2007, 10:18 PM
Wasnt gm talking to cat befor they went with the duramax? Doesnt pertain to the thread much but i was just curious i though they were but duramax was going to be cheaper

DUSTYCEDAR
02-27-2007, 10:28 PM
I WOULDENT BY a 6liter due to all the crap i have heard now with this who knows and the price is another turn off glad i have a 7.3

mrusk
02-27-2007, 10:35 PM
From what i hear the 6.0 proablem was partly caused by ford. Navistar wanted to build it one way with a certain set of parts, but ford demanded it another way.

snoope
02-27-2007, 10:37 PM
Toyota diesels are in their Hino trucks right now.....Mack is the new Volvo....

Ford and IHC will have to work out their differences..they NEED each other:) :) ..IHC is just starting to build a whole line of engines including the Class 8 segment..lose any market share and be place kicked to the back of the line....

Any of the equipment companies ( Cat,Volvo or Deere ) have been under '07 guidelines already...and could easily step in to SELL $$$$$ Ford their motors..

Paccar and Mercedes are trying to squeeze in also.....


Snoope back quiet

pclawncare
02-27-2007, 11:00 PM
[QUOTE=snoope;1728364]Toyota diesels are in their Hino trucks right now.....



Ya thats what i though so i bet they will come out one in a 3/4 ton pickup for too long

Scag48
02-27-2007, 11:00 PM
Yeah, Cat would LOVE that contract and they could make it work in about 10 seconds. But, as mentioned, both Navistar and Ford need each other.

twj721
02-27-2007, 11:06 PM
i heard the 6.4 is a $10,000 option now too, not sure how true it is, dealer told me that a few months back trying to get me into an 06'
About $7000.00 dollar option

pclawncare
02-27-2007, 11:10 PM
Didnt the 7.3 have come internals that were catapillar?

muddstopper
02-28-2007, 07:05 PM
I thought the 7.3 was a International also.

Mike33
02-28-2007, 08:55 PM
7.3 was international also.
mike

TXNSLighting
02-28-2007, 10:28 PM
i heard the 6.4 is a $10,000 option now too, not sure how true it is, dealer told me that a few months back trying to get me into an 06'

no a 6800 dollar option.

TXNSLighting
02-28-2007, 10:29 PM
Didnt the 7.3 have come internals that were catapillar?

no its an international engine. they still use it.

Gravel Rat
02-28-2007, 10:35 PM
The only thing the PSDs use is a similar fuel injection system that uses Hydraulic Electronic Unit Injectors which is what Caterpillar developed and what the 7.2 (C-7) Cat engine uses and other Cat engines too.

Willofalltrades
03-01-2007, 01:18 AM
yea so im really not worried, when 70% of your sales are diesels... you give them diesels! lol. Give it a few days and they will reach an agreement to supply the engines if and while a trial goes on.

I don't know to much about the other diesel manufacturers putting their engins in trucks. Least not a 1 ton and below. If they do though...I wouldn't hate it, especially a MACK engine!

ksss
03-01-2007, 06:22 AM
There were a lot of rumors around concerning what GM was going to use before they put the Duramax in their trucks. CAT and Deere were contenders as I heard. They could not get the CAT to fit and I am not sure what the issue was with Deere. The Duramax has worked well for GM though. How would you like to be a Ford pickup salesman right now. The 6.0 is so problematic that Ford and IH are arguing over who is going to pay for all the warranty work that has been and will need to be done.

The 7.3 was a good motor once the initial injector issues were worked out (much like the Dmax). The 6.0 has been hell since day one. If it is true that Ford speced changes to the engine that IH did not agree with they (IH) should have put their foot down at the time. Its a little late now to cry foul. I don't think IH needs Ford as much as it is the other way around. IH certainly has made money over the years with the Power Stroke engine. But it is still just an engine plant not a full vehicle production line. If IH lost the contract it would not send them into a tail spin. Fewer workers at the engine plant but they still produce the Power Stroke as the 444 for their own trucks. Ford needs the motor more than IH needs to sell it to them. That is evident by IH refusing to send Ford the 6.4 engines. If IH was needing to move them they would continue to sell the engines to Ford while this worked its way out. The time lost in getting someone elses diesel into their trucks would cost valuable time which equals marketshare, and that is something Ford cant afford to lose right now.

Gravel Rat
03-01-2007, 05:10 PM
International really doesn't need to produce a small V-8 diesel for their applications because any schoolbus can run a 466 engine besides all the new Bluebird Visions are running C-7 Cats with a 35,000lb gvw.

The 6.0 problems all stemmed from Ford trying to keep up with the Jones by trying to get the power out of the 6.0. The 7.3s had teething problems because the HEUI fuel system was uncharted territory. Even Cat has had problems with the same style system.

TXNSLighting
03-01-2007, 05:37 PM
well the production hault is over, international is sending the engines again starting next week. the court ruled for international to send ford the engines, and ruled ford to pay the price for them. so that part is resolved, but the warranty stuff is still on the table.

thebobcatkid86
03-02-2007, 09:32 PM
As far as Im concerned there will never be another engine like the 7.3. That 6.0 was nothing but trouble from the day it was released. I personally heard two stories of guys that bought those within 6 months of release and one had the exaust header get a crack in it and the other one threw a rod through the cylinder wall. And as far as this new 6.4 is concerned, at 10,500 thats insane. Plus with the warranty in limbo I wouldnt want to risk spending that kind of money on a first production engine. EPA standards be damned! The 7.3 will live on long after the last 6.0 is long dead!

TXNSLighting
03-03-2007, 01:43 AM
i dont know where everyone is seeing or hearing that the 6.4 is 10,000 dollars. its not that much, its about a thousand more than the 6.0, the engine costs 6800 dollars. and really not all of the 6.0's are problematic, actually only about 15% of them are bad. but thats enough to give them all a bad rap i guess. o well.

LawnScapers of Dayton
03-03-2007, 07:51 AM
My fire department just went to order a new medic with the Ford E450 chassis and the diesel, can't do it, so now it will be a GM chassis with the Duramax.....

This will actually be the first time I have ever seen a medic on a GM chassis, besides the medium duties.....

LindblomRJ
03-03-2007, 08:29 AM
My fire department just went to order a new medic with the Ford E450 chassis and the diesel, can't do it, so now it will be a GM chassis with the Duramax.....

This will actually be the first time I have ever seen a medic on a GM chassis, besides the medium duties.....

I have seen several ambulance on the 1 ton GMC pickup chassis. Usually those on federal contracts (indian tribes etc.)

I look for Ford to comeout with Jdeere engines in the near future.

It would be nice. It might work if there is modification of their tier 2 engines. Almost a throw back to their RV chassis days.

TXNSLighting
03-03-2007, 02:06 PM
My fire department just went to order a new medic with the Ford E450 chassis and the diesel, can't do it, so now it will be a GM chassis with the Duramax.....

This will actually be the first time I have ever seen a medic on a GM chassis, besides the medium duties.....

why cant they do it?

LawnScapers of Dayton
03-03-2007, 03:22 PM
Ford is not producing them due to the lawsuit......

JB1
03-03-2007, 06:43 PM
Ford is not producing them due to the lawsuit......

They build them every day.

TXNSLighting
03-03-2007, 10:00 PM
Ford is not producing them due to the lawsuit......

their producing them as we speak.

D Felix
03-03-2007, 11:55 PM
Yeah, but you've gotta understand how a government entity works (even a fire department).

My old FD had (still has) a heavy rescue on a Chevy chassis. The chassis wasn't worth crap, but the box was still going strong better than 15 years after it was put in service.

As for CAT or Deere producing an engine for a medium duty truck, I'll believe it when I see it. IIRC, several years ago there were rumors floating around that CAT was going to make an engine for Dodge. That never happened and never was anything more than a rumor.

Now, if Ford wants to put an Allis 6 cylinder diesel in a 1/2 ton, I know someone who's done it. :D

Lawn Tek
03-04-2007, 10:20 AM
The diesel market is in turmoil right now . Due to new E P A rules . I am not gonning to buy any diesel for the next two years . Before you buy a diesel you better price some of the componets that will wear out .
Example the new Ford has TWO TURBOS , I would guess thats a over two grand repair right there .Some of the newer motorhomes have EIGHT COMPUTERS on them !
If you do the math diesels are getting hard to justify . BTW I own one .
The old Chevy 350 engine with a 400 turbo trans is looking better every day
350 engine replacement 1000.00 they will go 200,000 miles
400 turbo trans 500.00
total about 1500.00

Diesel engine over 5000.00 will go 300,000 grand maybe
transmission over 2000.00 who knows how long varies
total about 7000.00

If you pencil in the fuel economy savings of a diesel then add the extreme parts replacement cost and add the .20 to .40 HIGHER cost of diesel fuel , they just don't work on paper for most people .
Were thinking about going to all old stuff , yea it gets bad M.P.G. but it cost less to insure , crews beat the hell out of new stuff anyway . And we can swap out lower cost componets at half the cost of a diesel repair .

Ford screwed its self with the 6.0 where the hell was thier testing program , before the engine was released ?
Cummins has by far the best engine , but where the hell was thier testing program for the auto transmission ?
They all should have to replace this junk they have been producing .

Toyota , sorry I'm not impressed with the new gasser , fuel economy not good , and Toyota always think thier stuff should cost a lot more .

They should all stop trying to build pu**y trucks , you know ride like a car , wimpy springs , carpet , power everthing , just a bunch of crap to run up the price

ranger351w
03-04-2007, 10:46 AM
:confused: I seem to remember that Ford purchased Cummins a few years ago? 6=7 ?time goes fast. What happened to that deal? I know they were to let Dodge use them for x #of years. Just wondering if anyone knows anything about that??
Mike

D Felix
03-04-2007, 10:51 AM
I think that, too, was a rumor. A widely believed one at that... But I could be wrong.

Duekster
03-04-2007, 10:52 AM
Ford makes a solid truck. I am sure they can find a new supplier.

TXNSLighting
03-04-2007, 11:52 AM
yeh they bought cummins. but they own it with chrysler. so they share it. and yes ford is a great truck. and the new 6.4 is going to be the next 7.3!

ksss
03-04-2007, 03:22 PM
Well Texan there are a lot of jobs banking on that being the case. I don't run Ford and not likely that I ever will as long as GM continues to put out a quality HD pickup and med. duty truck. I do want Ford to be successful however. Competition makes everyone build a better product. I am hearing internet rumors of having to remove the cab on these trucks to get at the complete engine. If that is true (maybe it is like the Dmax melting head issue) that is going to suck for Ford owners. I don't see the reason to go with two small turbo chargers. OK I know what they are trying to accomplish. Min. spool time off the line and good boost pressure once moving. The variable vane turbo which Ford has had a difficult time getting to hold together seems like a better answer. Maybe they just needed a different turbo supplier. I question the durability and longjevity of this system. It seems like a lot of moving parts and at least right now does not make anymore HP or Torque than Cummins or the Dmax. If I were going to take a chance on this motor. I would want to see significant power over the others. Maybe that will come later when they feel better about how it will hold up. Ford can't afford for this to be another O' no 6.0 Besides that what rhymes with 6.4? Hopefully we wont have to think of something.

Eclipse
03-04-2007, 08:50 PM
yeh they bought cummins.

Ford does not own any part of Cummins.

http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content.jsp?siteId=1&langId=1033&menuId=6&overviewId=29&anchorId=44&index=4&menuIndex=3#Q2

TXNSLighting
03-05-2007, 01:51 AM
Ford does not own any part of Cummins.

http://www.cummins.com/cmi/content.jsp?siteId=1&langId=1033&menuId=6&overviewId=29&anchorId=44&index=4&menuIndex=3#Q2

that page has been there forever, and needs updating. how do you think they have the cummins in the 650's and 750's? i didnt say they own all of it. they own a portion.

TXNSLighting
03-05-2007, 01:57 AM
Well Texan there are a lot of jobs banking on that being the case. I don't run Ford and not likely that I ever will as long as GM continues to put out a quality HD pickup and med. duty truck. I do want Ford to be successful however. Competition makes everyone build a better product. I am hearing internet rumors of having to remove the cab on these trucks to get at the complete engine. If that is true (maybe it is like the Dmax melting head issue) that is going to suck for Ford owners. I don't see the reason to go with two small turbo chargers. OK I know what they are trying to accomplish. Min. spool time off the line and good boost pressure once moving. The variable vane turbo which Ford has had a difficult time getting to hold together seems like a better answer. Maybe they just needed a different turbo supplier. I question the durability and longjevity of this system. It seems like a lot of moving parts and at least right now does not make anymore HP or Torque than Cummins or the Dmax. If I were going to take a chance on this motor. I would want to see significant power over the others. Maybe that will come later when they feel better about how it will hold up. Ford can't afford for this to be another O' no 6.0 Besides that what rhymes with 6.4? Hopefully we wont have to think of something.

its actually not two small turbos. its one small turbo for off the line boost, then a full size turbo for the high end. yes its alot of moving parts but they have tested it for over 10,000,000 miles. about the numbers bein the same as the other two? people have been doin some dyno's and it seems ford is not being honest with their numbers...ive seen 2 or 3 6.4's dynod and all of them are producing about 625 lb ft of tq at the rear wheels, much more than advertised...and thats MUCH more the the duramax and cummins. well see in the next year or so. i think that engine is tuned down a whole bunch. and i have actually heard the cab off repairs are going to be cheaper then the old method. so we'll just have to see.

Travel'n Trees
03-05-2007, 02:55 AM
I've already seen two of 6.4's that have already toasted, maybe FORD is trying top the last two. I'm sorry but I don't think all of Ford's are caused by International, look at the corners they cut, like the main one the air Box they saved a quarter and cost their buyers DUSTED motors one simple brace in the middle of the air box would have prevented most of these, motors from being dusted due to air filter collapsing under boost and allowing dust by the edges. Sorry but one quarter was it worth it?

LawnScapers of Dayton
03-05-2007, 07:17 AM
well according to the medic manufacturer, the E-450 with the medic spec package is not currently available due to the lawsuit.....that's all I can tell you..... We don't have time to mess around with the that crap because once the city council approves money to be spent we have to spend it or run the risk of losing it.....

Eclipse
03-05-2007, 09:41 AM
that page has been there forever, and needs updating. how do you think they have the cummins in the 650's and 750's? i didnt say they own all of it. they own a portion.

And I did not try to represent that Ford owned Cummins. I statated, as well as the Cummins FAQ website, that Frord does not own any part of Cummins Inc.

You are right, that has been listed on Cummins FAQ website for several years. The reason for this is because it is true. I'm sure Cummins is not into misrepresenting themselves on the WWW, they are much too large of a company for that.

Just because the Cummins is available in F650 trucks means nothing. Ford, as well as several other auto manufacturers, uses several parts from various MFG's in which that they do not own any part of the company.

This rumor, as it is now, started from when at one time several years ago Ford did own a number of shares of Cummins Engine Company stock.

Eclipse
03-05-2007, 09:49 AM
numbers...ive seen 2 or 3 6.4's dynod and all of them are producing about 625 lb ft of tq at the rear wheels, much more than advertised...and thats MUCH more the the duramax and cummins.

I thought they were advertising 650 ft. lbs. of torque? 625RW ft. lbs. is not much more than advertised. The diesel engines do not suffer the losses to the rear wheels like their gasser counterparts. Ask a dyno operator who has run several stock diesel trucks across their dyno. That 20% number that got throw around with gassers is not even close to being realistic for a diesel.

Have you seen a stock Dodge 6.7l Cummins dyno? Or how about a newest evolution of the Durmax engine. I think you might be surprised at the numbers they put down :)

I'm not trying to talk down the 6.4l Powerstroke. Admittedly I do not know a whole lot about it. But I think you would be surprised to see just how close all the big three diesel engines are if they were run back to back on the same dyno.

ksss
03-05-2007, 11:16 AM
I have never run a dyno. I would suspect that with the size of these transmissions there must be some power loss to the rear wells. How much I have no idea. I would garrantee that Edge, BullyDog, and others know right now what the 6.4, 6.7 and the LMM 6.6 are putting out. I am sure they are doing dyno work and building programers for engines that have barely been released. I have yet to even see the GM LMM motor.

If the Ford is putting out higher numbers than advertised, they need to get new marketing people. I am no marketing genius for sure, but if your giving me a pickup engine with the added complexity of two turbo chargers I want to not only feel a significant more power in the Ford, I want to see it in the numbers. The only benefit I see to running these trucks hotter than they are speced is to help create a bigger buzz while they are first being released. Perhaps trying to get guys to demo the truck that on paper specs with everyone elses but is much more powerful when driven. I guess if you see the trend go the other way and start seeing GM Dmax trucks in Ford lots we will know that Ford got it right. I would like to drive one just to see how they run. The interiors of the trucks look good I thought.

Eclipse
03-05-2007, 11:59 AM
In defense of Ford twin turbos, I understand the logic and the idea behind it. I definitely think it is good in theory and compond twin turbos make great driving trucks with great towing abilities. I don't know why they needed to go to the complexity of compound turbos at 350HP but I'm sure it makes for a nice setup.

ksss
03-05-2007, 12:08 PM
I guess that is my thought as well. This (twin turbo charges) has never been done like this before (built for the masses, commercially available). So Ford will either be a hero or a zero for the attempt.

TXNSLighting
03-05-2007, 01:58 PM
And I did not try to represent that Ford owned Cummins. I statated, as well as the Cummins FAQ website, that Frord does not own any part of Cummins Inc.

You are right, that has been listed on Cummins FAQ website for several years. The reason for this is because it is true. I'm sure Cummins is not into misrepresenting themselves on the WWW, they are much too large of a company for that.

Just because the Cummins is available in F650 trucks means nothing. Ford, as well as several other auto manufacturers, uses several parts from various MFG's in which that they do not own any part of the company.

This rumor, as it is now, started from when at one time several years ago Ford did own a number of shares of Cummins Engine Company stock.

i know im just tryin to get an uproar. they owned 10% cummins stock back in the 90's then cummins bought it back in 97. cummins just supplies the b5.9 and c8.3 to ford. im glad to see some one sticking to their guns. i just get really bored, and every time i hear the "ford owns cummins" thing i have to run with it. see if anyone knows the truth. i cant wait to get mowin again so im not so bored...

TXNSLighting
03-05-2007, 02:02 PM
I thought they were advertising 650 ft. lbs. of torque? 625RW ft. lbs. is not much more than advertised. The diesel engines do not suffer the losses to the rear wheels like their gasser counterparts. Ask a dyno operator who has run several stock diesel trucks across their dyno. That 20% number that got throw around with gassers is not even close to being realistic for a diesel.

Have you seen a stock Dodge 6.7l Cummins dyno? Or how about a newest evolution of the Durmax engine. I think you might be surprised at the numbers they put down :)

I'm not trying to talk down the 6.4l Powerstroke. Admittedly I do not know a whole lot about it. But I think you would be surprised to see just how close all the big three diesel engines are if they were run back to back on the same dyno.

im going to disagree. if you dyno my cummins right now with no chip, the engine says 325 horse and 610 tq. put it on the dyno and it will be 275 horse and bout 510 tq. you always lose that much do to the trans and rear end. it always been like that. ive seen many many many dynos, and thats what comes up everytime. so to see 625 at the rear wheels leaves me to believe it pushing over 700 lb ft tq at the rear wheels. but ill wait and see some dynos of the 6.7 and lmm.

Eclipse
03-05-2007, 04:12 PM
you always lose that much do to the trans and rear end. it always been like that. ive seen many many many dynos, and thats what comes up everytime.

No doubt there is a loss though the drive train. How much depends on several varaibles, tire size, gear ratio, transmission gear ratio (drive or OD and then OD ratio), ect... Some trucks loose more than others. Some dynos show better numbers than others (inerta dyno vs load dyno). Shoot even the dyno operator can be taken into consideration as a variable when determining the relevance of a dyno run.

What am I getting at :) no doubt a 25 ft. lb of torque loss to the RW is a bit optimistic or impressive depending on how you look at it, that is less than 5%. Assuming all other things equal that was one strong running 6.4 as compared to their advertised number of 650 ft. lbs.

FWIW - I have seen a couple stock 325HP dodges dyno just over 300 HP and 550-560ft. lbs. of torque while others are in the 280's.

TXNSLighting
03-05-2007, 11:51 PM
very true, and i do think 4x4's will be less then 2 wheels drives cuz of the transfer case. your very right in the fact that there are so many variables, its hard to get a solid number. but out of the couple dynod i saw. those are very impressive numbers.

GG386
03-06-2007, 09:03 PM
Just to change the subject a bit, but isn't the 6.4 block the same as the 6.0? In defense of the 6.0's, I own one that was built in July of 06, (after selling my bulletproof 7.3.) and it is snappy. Really don't have enough miles on it for any type of good evaluation, but so far so good.

My gut feeling, all the players are going to have some teething problems, that's a given- time will tell. Ford definitely developed a stigma with those early 6.0's, but they sure came up with a sweet powerplant in reply- oh yeh just in time to discontinue it :dizzy:

TXNSLighting
03-07-2007, 01:20 AM
Just to change the subject a bit, but isn't the 6.4 block the same as the 6.0? In defense of the 6.0's, I own one that was built in July of 06, (after selling my bulletproof 7.3.) and it is snappy. Really don't have enough miles on it for any type of good evaluation, but so far so good.

My gut feeling, all the players are going to have some teething problems, that's a given- time will tell. Ford definitely developed a stigma with those early 6.0's, but they sure came up with a sweet powerplant in reply- oh yeh just in time to discontinue it :dizzy:

actually, the 6.0 isnt as bad as you hear. 85% of the 6.0's are damn good engines. but since there are about 15% that just didnt cut it, (probably friday trucks...lol) it gives them ALL a bad name. so, as long as you get an oasis report before you buy one, and see there is no repairs, then you will have a good one. and its also cuz ford outsells gm and dodge combined, so they have more trucks out there to fail...but o well. im not going to change the minds of thousands and thousands of people so o well. why even talk....

TXNSLighting
03-07-2007, 01:21 AM
and yes its the same block.

ksss
03-07-2007, 02:58 AM
I considered leaving it alone but what the heck.

Texan I would have to disagree with the 15% number. Had the effected number of trucks been that small I don't think the problem would have been as big as it is. The warranty issues with the motor are large. Large enough that Ford and IH are fighting over who is responsible for the costs (of course I know you know that). The very small point I will make and then be quiet is it is not just the public's perception of a problem with 6.0 (the one or two bad apples that spoils the basket thing). The issue is large and real and is and has caused the parties involved a lot of money. Money at least Ford doesn't have. They did not spawn the 6.4 because the IH engineers had little else to do. The 6.0 has only been around for 5 model years and has already been dumped, they probaby did not even cover design and production costs for that motor. You don't dump a successful engine in five model years. The publics perception of that motor did not kill it. They did it because of persistant problems with the 6.0 and erosion of their share of the market which was dominating prior to the 6.0 You may also may want to check your current marketshare numbers for diesels sold and all trucks for that matter. Your numbers are incorrect. OK horse is kicked to death.

GG386
03-07-2007, 11:02 AM
In respect to the last generation 6.0's, they (Ford) did get them right. One of my old school mates, who is now an engineer for International and was part the 6 litre program, explained to me that all the bugs have been worked out.

Well you know how engineers can be! My go to guy at my local dealership, who does all the diesel work there, is in agreement about the durability with the last produced 6.0's. That's 2 for 2, good enough in my book.

ksss
03-07-2007, 11:48 AM
GG386

""One of my old school mates, who is now an engineer for International and was part the 6 litre program, explained to me that all the bugs have been worked out.""


GG386, Did your engineeer friend tell anyone? This may be the best kept secret in the automotive world.:clapping:

Sorry just having a little fun:waving:

GG386
03-07-2007, 04:39 PM
GG386

""One of my old school mates, who is now an engineer for International and was part the 6 litre program, explained to me that all the bugs have been worked out.""


GG386, Did your engineeer friend tell anyone? This may be the best kept secret in the automotive world.:clapping:

Sorry just having a little fun:waving:



Hey,Hey

Hell, no offense taken! Sort of a problem in this world, everybody some damn serious all the freak'n time- humor is a good thing you a*****e:laugh:


Back on a different note, don't this new 07 diesels have to run on a non-standard fuel? Correct me if I'm wrong, but the normal fuel we use and get almost anywhere is NOT to be used in these new motors? I've haven't even seen a fuel station yet even carrying/advertising this new formulated diesel. If were a betting man, I'll bet that stuff cost more too.

It's gonna be awhile before I replace any of my trucks, or maybe just go w/gas:confused:

snoope
03-07-2007, 05:18 PM
Every place you buy your fuel ( consumer pumps I'll ad ) should be the new "Stuff"....started phasing that in October last year with final push January 1st,'07....If your buying out of a "Bulk truck' to your own tanks,that is whole other ball game....Just don't get caught:laugh: :laugh:

Only difference should be a small sticker on pump face beside the certification or tax ticket...


Snoope back quiet

GG386
03-07-2007, 11:33 PM
Every place you buy your fuel ( consumer pumps I'll ad ) should be the new "Stuff"....started phasing that in October last year with final push January 1st,'07....If your buying out of a "Bulk truck' to your own tanks,that is whole other ball game....Just don't get caught:laugh: :laugh:

Only difference should be a small sticker on pump face beside the certification or tax ticket...


Snoope back quiet

I stand corrected IF the fuel described is one in the same that is commonly available commercially. Could be, I'm not sure, but I'll take your word on it.

As far as bulk tanks, ther're for off road equipment only, you know that.

TXNSLighting
03-07-2007, 11:56 PM
I considered leaving it alone but what the heck.

Texan I would have to disagree with the 15% number. Had the effected number of trucks been that small I don't think the problem would have been as big as it is. The warranty issues with the motor are large. Large enough that Ford and IH are fighting over who is responsible for the costs (of course I know you know that). The very small point I will make and then be quiet is it is not just the public's perception of a problem with 6.0 (the one or two bad apples that spoils the basket thing). The issue is large and real and is and has caused the parties involved a lot of money. Money at least Ford doesn't have. They did not spawn the 6.4 because the IH engineers had little else to do. The 6.0 has only been around for 5 model years and has already been dumped, they probaby did not even cover design and production costs for that motor. You don't dump a successful engine in five model years. The publics perception of that motor did not kill it. They did it because of persistant problems with the 6.0 and erosion of their share of the market which was dominating prior to the 6.0 You may also may want to check your current marketshare numbers for diesels sold and all trucks for that matter. Your numbers are incorrect. OK horse is kicked to death.

Actually im more right then you may think. it may not be 15% but its around there. the problem is that the ones with problems have reaccuring problems. and when they change hands they keep having problems. thats just how it is. the majority of people with the 6.0's like them. im in close with my ford dealer here, so this is what i see. maybe just the texas trucks are decent i dont know. but this is from my experinences. and they didnt dump it cause it was a crap engine, the dumped it because of emmisions. the same reason theres a new cummins. the 5.9 didnt pass emmisions, and neither did the duramax. and im defiantely not saying its one or two, its several thousand. but look at the first several years of the duramax, they were crap. they had to offer a 200k warranty on them, because so many injectors were goin. i will agree they didnt test the engine enough, but twoards the end, the later 06's and 07's, those engines are really pretty good. but im not tryin to argue, this is just from my experiences here. you may be right and i may be totally wrong. but where im from here, there are way more 6.0's than cummins or duramax's. and the majority of thejm are very happy with them. and thats all ill say.

JB1
03-08-2007, 12:03 AM
Well they are back to building them full steam ahead, and Texas is the truck capitol, Ford that is.

TXNSLighting
03-08-2007, 12:15 AM
yep yep! very true!

snoope
03-08-2007, 10:31 PM
GG386,

We have 3 yard tanks.....one LS fuel,one equipment fuel and one unleaded...As long as you keep track of gallons and miles for IFTA.....the tax man just wants his $$$....Last company I worked at fueled there "Wheelers " and equipment out of the same truck,2 compartments 2 seperate reels.....


Snoope back quiet


Glad to here Ford worked the political "Bugs" out.........