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Blessed 1
03-01-2007, 10:00 AM
I have a 2002 2500HD Duramax Siverado and I recently purchased a 8.5x20 ft enclosed Trailer with 7" added to the height. My truck knows that it is pulling a load. I am thinking about either adding a chip or upgrading to a 4" exaust. What do you reccoment to give me a boost. I am on a limited budget because I have a 07 Lazer Z XS at my dealer in the crate waiting on me to try to figure out how to get it and not get put out of my house (wife). Thanks in advance for your suggestions.

CutRight
03-01-2007, 10:13 AM
the banks complete power package is pretty impressive, i dont know what your looking to spend. for just under $2000 you get an added 300 horsepower and i forget how much torque. thats for the whole package though, exhaust, chip, power controller and whatnot. you can just buy components. im lookin to get the package myself, but just so i can burn more rubber.

Blessed 1
03-01-2007, 10:16 AM
What is the Banks. Is there a websight?

hosejockey2002
03-01-2007, 12:00 PM
the banks complete power package is pretty impressive, i dont know what your looking to spend. for just under $2000 you get an added 300 horsepower and i forget how much torque. thats for the whole package though, exhaust, chip, power controller and whatnot. you can just buy components. im lookin to get the package myself, but just so i can burn more rubber.

Sorry, gotta call BS on this. You can't double an engine's horsepower for under $2K. You might add 50 hp, but is it worth $2K to accelerate a little faster? If you're a street racing kid, maybe, but a lawn care professional, maybe not. With that big trailer, you're going to know it's back there regardless of how much you spend on your motor.

ksss
03-01-2007, 12:29 PM
You can "almost" double the Hp for a couple thousand dollars in that motor. The problem is you can't tow with all that power safelty without spending a lot more. You don't need that much horse to pull that trailer. I have had 5 Duramax diesels some I have tuned heavily others I never touched. A trailer that size should not give you great problems. I routinely pull 30K with a mildly tuned 3500. You may want to have yours checked out before you do anything to it. A trailer like your should be an easy day even with wind resistance factored in. The exhuast is important not so much for the power it will provide but the lowering of the EGTs (some say you gain about 30 hp from opening the exhaust up). That is important for further upgrades. Removing the factory exhaust will liven it up somewhat. I have used the Banks exhaust on 4 of my trucks. Overall very good system. I just purchased a Corsa for my 06. The exhuast from Banks will cost you about $700.00 You can find cheaper systems. The reason I spend more money on exhaust packages is I really hate the "drone" you get with cheaper systems. If that does not bother you, You could save money and get MSRB. I would try the exhaust first and see if that provides what you need. You can then step up to a programer if you want more power. A note: If your towing a lot it is always best to select a tuning system that will defuel and back itself off if it senses tranny slip and excessive EGTs. The LB7 in your 02 is a great motor. I had an 01 and 03 and as far as economy and power it has it all. If you want to read more about this go to the Dieselpage.com

dozerman21
03-01-2007, 01:16 PM
Go to wwwthedieselplace.com. Do some searches and you'll find a boatload of info. There is a catagory for the LB7 electronics.

I have an '02 LB7 that is my daily driver. I have modded it, starting with the exhaust first, followed by the air intake, then a programmer. The exhaust, like stated earlier, will vary in price. Go to some of the web sites that you're looking at. Most of them have sound clips. I bought the Banks Monster turbo back, but have since taken out the muffler. Flowmaster's kit sounds good IMO, but I like 'em loud, hence the straight pipe. Whichever kit you get, I would go stainless.

The air intake kits will run you around $250. I think they are worth it, and they will also help lower your egt's. Some guys just replace the factory filter with an aftermarket, and claim the performance is as good. If you buy a chip, do the exhaust and intake/filter first.

I've heard more negative that positive on the Banks kit. Mostly that it's overpriced. You can get a 125 hp Edge with the Attitude moniter for around $750, and you can install it yourself. The hardest part is installing the probe for the pyrometer. EFI Live is a custom tuner that seems to be pretty popular currently. No matter what chip you get, you don't want to go past 125 hp with a stock tranny. Even the Allison has it's limits. Most chips have different hp settings, and they don't recommend going past 60hp while towing. This is to protect your egt's from getting too hot. 60hp gain with a 4+" exhaust and an air intake will be more than enough to pull that trailer loaded. The rest of the hp and torque you can play with on the weekend!:weightlifter: You can get all of that for around $1,500-$1,600 if you do a little shopping. www.kennedydiesel.com is a reputable company that I've bought from a few times. Also, check Ebay, once you know what you want.

Blessed 1
03-01-2007, 02:08 PM
Now thats what I am talking about. You guys are really helping me. I have been a member here since 2002 and I love this learning tool.

qualitylawnmanagement
03-01-2007, 03:34 PM
Check out pacificp.com. They have some good programmers and they seem to beat everyone when it comes to power wise hp and in torque. I highly recommend this product, my buddy has one and he has banks, and edge and this product seem to give him the most power for the money. On your truck you get anywhere from 100hp and 180ftlb to 350hp and 530ftlb. But if you plan to get a programmer you might want to do the exhaust to make it breath better, but if you want your truck to perform right under the extreme mode I would get an intake, exhaust, and at least a stage one tranny if you plan to run over 100hp mode.

http://www.pacificp.com/index.php?main_page=index&cPath=2_35_29

Blessed 1
03-01-2007, 04:24 PM
Thanks Guys. I just want to be able to get in the passing lane and increase speed on a slight incline when I have my equipment. I knoticed now that it takes a minute to get up to the 65 mph speed limit and if there is a hill you can forget speeding up or passing.:cry:

TXNSLighting
03-01-2007, 04:38 PM
Sorry, gotta call BS on this. You can't double an engine's horsepower for under $2K. You might add 50 hp, but is it worth $2K to accelerate a little faster? If you're a street racing kid, maybe, but a lawn care professional, maybe not. With that big trailer, you're going to know it's back there regardless of how much you spend on your motor.

you must now know diesel very well, huh?....

ksss
03-01-2007, 04:45 PM
I have a Pacific Performance downloader on my 5500. I picked up an honest 5 miles to the gallon empty. The added power is nice but the mileage was what I was really after.

TXNSLighting
03-01-2007, 04:45 PM
you reall dont need to get 100 extra horse power for towing. 50-70 will be enough to get you goin. and the experiences ive had with 3/4 ton duramaxs, they dont pull that well. id say go with a simple 50 horse chip either edge or bullydog. you dont want to much or else you'll melt your aluminum heads. you should do exhaust too, but its not really goin to give you any horse power, maybe 5-10 extra.

TXNSLighting
03-01-2007, 04:47 PM
air intakes are good too.

start2finish
03-01-2007, 04:57 PM
Sorry, gotta call BS on this. You can't double an engine's horsepower for under $2K. You might add 50 hp, but is it worth $2K to accelerate a little faster? If you're a street racing kid, maybe, but a lawn care professional, maybe not. With that big trailer, you're going to know it's back there regardless of how much you spend on your motor.


I agree, he hasn't ever seen a diesel with a banks kit. just a chip is impressive. now the gas motors do not respond well to a chip, but the manufactuers have these engines turned way down. probably for emmission reasons, but a factory diesel with a chip,exhaust,and new intake will amaze you. I would get out more.

TXNSLighting
03-01-2007, 05:07 PM
yep i spent 650 bucks on mine and got an extra 240 hp. lotsa fun there.

ksss
03-01-2007, 05:11 PM
Your not going to melt the heads of a Duramax. That is a wives tale that has been floating around since 01 when they were introduced. Its been researched and there has been no basis for a concern of a head meltdown on the Duramax. You may have injector problems in the first couple model years of introduction (warranty was extended to 200K to cover these trucks), there were some early Allison problems but no head meltdowns. I personally could not be more happy with my D/A combinations. I pull heavy and often and have never had a powertrain issue on any of them.

gorrell
03-01-2007, 05:19 PM
I've got a 2002 Duramax/Allison in a GMC 3500 dually. I've changed to 4" stainless exhaust and a K & N Filter. I pull a 26' tri axle trailer hauling 4 Dixie 50 hp diesels. No complaints about power whatsoever and I'm getting 10 mpg loaded....................Lynn

TXNSLighting
03-01-2007, 05:21 PM
Your not going to melt the heads of a Duramax. That is a wives tale that has been floating around since 01 when they were introduced. Its been researched and there has been no basis for a concern of a head meltdown on the Duramax. You may have injector problems in the first couple model years of introduction (warranty was extended to 200K to cover these trucks), there were some early Allison problems but no head meltdowns. I personally could not be more happy with my D/A combinations. I pull heavy and often and have never had a powertrain issue on any of them.

200k warranty? never heard that one...

dozerman21
03-01-2007, 06:39 PM
200,000 miles or 7 years from the purchase date, whichever comes first. I'ts the 2001-2003 model years for injector failure, and I believe it is only for the LB7 engines. The LLY's came out in late 2003. I wish they would replace all 8 injectors if 1 went out. They will only replace the damaged injector. That might save multiple trips and time if they did. That's O.K. though. That was pretty stand up of GM to honor past the original 5 year/100,000 mile warranty.

Off Topic:

gorrell- How do you like the Dixie diesels? I have a late 90's Flatlander with the 25 hp Kohler, that's been great. I thought about getting a diesel someday. Are they using the Yanmar? Also, has the Generac replaced the Kohler?

TGM
03-01-2007, 08:03 PM
do any of you know performance diesels? you don't just throw a chip in there (all-be-it banks either). i don't mean to offend anyone, but it's scary to read the misinformation out there.

you need gauges to monitor boost, pyrometer (pre turbo- most important!), and if you'd like trans temp, fuel pressure, etc. there are many choices for the duramax that can make big, adjustable power without upgrading injectors, bigger turbo, or the use of drugs. your biggest problem is the transmission. at the very least, to be reliable, you should go with a shift kit; though a full transmission is best. anything over 100hp and you're likely to be slipping some clutches. if you do keep the power down, then you will probably be ok.

and intake and exhaust will help with EGT's which is often a concern if you are pulling.

melting the heads? no. look at the LLY overheating video around the internet, those heads aren't melting.

and i do know of trucks over 600hp who tow daily. it's all about set up.

Jamesgateslandscaping
03-01-2007, 09:35 PM
Ok, Go to Dieselplace.com first off.
DO NOT do an intake, on the Duramax's they do not have any performance gain nor do they offer any additional filtering advantage.
A chip will be your best bet but you will need to do gauges and exhaust. The EGTs that the extra power will produce won't be good for the turbo and you will need to help them escape from your engine.
The more power you add to the truck, the more trouble you will cause with your tranny. Yes allison is a great tranny, but after 100hp added, you will put some series stress on the tranny. I pull everything from a 24' enclosed to a 20' equipment trailer with a tractor or excavator on it and my 3/4 ton feels it but handles it w/ ease. My 1 ton does a great job because of the dual wheels. Having dual wheels will make any truck handle the trailer better, not just more power. I would look at a bully dog programmer, set it on tow/economy and just relax because it will not hurt the tranny, produce reasonable EGT's and also give you the power and fuel economy you want. You can find a used one for as little as $300 or new at $500. Dont just go dumping $$$$ into performance kits when you just want the extra umph to tow your trailer.
I hope this help and PM me if you have other Q's
James

TXNSLighting
03-01-2007, 10:27 PM
man i was kidding about the heads, didnt know it would get an uproar! i know they wont melt, they wouldnt put them on there if they would. and as i said in the begining, just get the bully dog or edge, and set it on 50. thats all you need. thats all anyone needs. unless its a race truck. and have fun with it!

hosejockey2002
03-04-2007, 12:27 PM
yep i spent 650 bucks on mine and got an extra 240 hp. lotsa fun there.

Really? You spent $650 and now your truck dynos out at 550 hp? Well shut my mouth, I thought you had to spend a whole lot more then that to get that kind of power.

TXNSLighting
03-05-2007, 01:06 AM
so your not a diesel guy then....and no its not 550, im guessing about 450-500ish, on the right setting, and know i havent dynoed it yet. but my chip has the crazy larry setting which is 230 horse. and my intake adds roughly 10 horse, but probly not any, so really just an extra 230 horse. diesels are power houses. not enough people know that. and more should know. that duramax with a bunch of add ons is one hell of a vett eater. the cummins with nice add ons, is a vett eater. and the 6.0 (before it breaks) is a vett eater. diesels are the best, start looking around their popping up more and more...

hosejockey2002
03-05-2007, 10:13 AM
OK, I'm not a diesel guy per se (I don't own a diesel pickup) but I've operated the big ones for 18 years or so, so I do know how they work. I thought the '05 Cummins was 310 hp so when you said your chip added 240 I assumed you had 550 hp. I was also under the impression that to get the full "bang" from a chip you have to do exhaust, intake and turbo work. I did not realize you could take a completly stock truck, put in a $650 chip and add 200 or more horsepower. Is this what you are saying?

ksss
03-05-2007, 10:22 AM
That is correct. It may be wise to make other improvements such as exhaust and maybe intake. The cool thing is it is or can be "smart power". The programmer can defuel when the truck gets too warm or senses tran. slip. They can check other functions as well which no longer means you need gauges, they are built into the monitor. Helps protect you from yourself.

TXNSLighting
03-05-2007, 01:09 PM
OK, I'm not a diesel guy per se (I don't own a diesel pickup) but I've operated the big ones for 18 years or so, so I do know how they work. I thought the '05 Cummins was 310 hp so when you said your chip added 240 I assumed you had 550 hp. I was also under the impression that to get the full "bang" from a chip you have to do exhaust, intake and turbo work. I did not realize you could take a completly stock truck, put in a $650 chip and add 200 or more horsepower. Is this what you are saying?

well it actually has 325 from the factory. and i got the chip for 400 bucks and the intake for 250. no need for exhaust cuz it comes with 4" from the factory. And yes thats exactly what im saying! thats the great things about diesels! you can get that extra horse power for 400 bucks! thats just great huh?

tnmtn
03-05-2007, 01:46 PM
i have an LB7 and it seems to me that something is off for it to be struggling with the weight mentioned by the original poster. i agree that first off the truck should be checked out. then do as others have said and learn at the dieselplace for while. with the right tweaks the LB7 is a great tow machine.

ksss
03-05-2007, 03:53 PM
Yea, I agree the truck should not be stumbling with that kind weight. The LB7 gets better mileage and is easier to chip than the later models. I really liked the mileage of the LB7. I had an 01 3500 dually that would get 19 over the road and 03 2500 CC that with stock tires got 22 mpg. My 06 CC dually gets 12.8 according to the DIC.

Blessed 1
03-05-2007, 04:11 PM
My truck is just slow getting up to highway speeds and if there is a slight incline I cannot gain any speed. Since the original post I have added a 3rd Lazer Z XS (1200 lbs) so its a real heavy load now. As soon as possible I am going to start by upgrading my exaust system but it may be a minute because I am in the dog house for the mower purchase.........:hammerhead:

tnmtn
03-05-2007, 04:15 PM
you might think about checking the fuel filter. somethings not right and i would find out what it might be before doing any upgrades. mine has no problem passing going uphill at highway speeds. this is when towing 13,000#s. and definitly no problems getting to highway speed.

Blessed 1
03-05-2007, 04:18 PM
I changed the Fuel Filter the day I picked up the trailer.

ksss
03-05-2007, 07:22 PM
I routinely pulled 14K and at times I crossed the scales at 33K with my 01. It was a little doggy at that weight. You can also take it to a dealer and have them check the computer to be sure you have the most recent updates and see if you have thrown any codes. They will do that around here for free.

Blessed 1
03-06-2007, 07:47 AM
I normally get my filter from the Dealer but this time I purchased a Advance Motorcraft filter. I also lost at least 1/3 of my fuel milage. I was getting 300-350 miles a tank and now I have burned 3/4 tank and only been 170 miles. I am going to get to the deal on my day off and let hem check it out.

fool32696
03-07-2007, 03:10 AM
I have an 02 GMC duramax. I got the Edge w/attitude used in the for sale section of dieselplace.com for $400 shipped. I got it just after getting 35in tires. In the stock setting I can't stand driving the truck, its a dog. I usually run it in level 3 which I think is 75hp. I tow on level 2 and I beat rice burners that think they're fast with level 5. Be careful with the higher settings or you may destroy your allison.

ProStreetCamaro
03-07-2007, 10:12 AM
so your not a diesel guy then....and no its not 550, im guessing about 450-500ish, on the right setting, and know i havent dynoed it yet. but my chip has the crazy larry setting which is 230 horse. and my intake adds roughly 10 horse, but probly not any, so really just an extra 230 horse. diesels are power houses. not enough people know that. and more should know. that duramax with a bunch of add ons is one hell of a vett eater. the cummins with nice add ons, is a vett eater. and the 6.0 (before it breaks) is a vett eater. diesels are the best, start looking around their popping up more and more...


Vette eater? Thats about the funniest thing I have heard in a long time! My friend has a cummins dodge that put down over 600hp and over 1,200ft/lbs of torque. His best time at the track is high 14's. He has a huge aftermarket turbo, custom programed pcm, stacks, heavy duty clutch and alot of other mods. I wish you lived closer so I could run you in my stock 99 SS Camaro. I would leave you like your standing still. My SS ran 12.9 BONE STOCK. The Z06 vette with just better tires runs high 10's.

Am I saying a diesel cant be made fast? NO thats not what I am saying at all but I know 5 guys with diesels and 4 of those are duramax diesels and all 4 have been reprogrammed, exhaust and intake and non of them have run better than a high 14's.

ksss
03-07-2007, 10:42 AM
He is not kidding about being a vette eater. There are a couple trucks here that routinely stomp Vettes. They don't even race them against these trucks anymore. Painfully hard to believe I know. I am also a go fast car guy. I just sold my 96 Camaro SS car number 2135 (making room for the new Camaro). These trucks run stacked programers,with propane injection. The one truck has dynoed 1400 pounds of torque. Whether these are Z06's or not, I don't know. Considering that 10 years ago I was driving a 6.5TD that could barely get out of its way, impressive never the less.

ProStreetCamaro
03-07-2007, 10:57 AM
He is not kidding about being a vette eater. There are a couple trucks here that routinely stomp Vettes. They don't even race them against these trucks anymore. Painfully hard to believe I know. I am also a go fast car guy. I just sold my 96 Camaro SS car number 2135 (making room for the new Camaro). These trucks run stacked programers,with propane injection. The one truck has dynoed 1400 pounds of torque. Whether these are Z06's or not, I don't know. Considering that 10 years ago I was driving a 6.5TD that could barely get out of its way, impressive never the less.

I know there are some fast trucks but to really get them that fast alot of money has to be put into the truck such as the propane injection, bigger turbos, upgraded tranny's and so on.

I can take a stock 2006 Z06 and put slicks on the back and a 200hp nitrous kit for a grand tottal of maybe $1,000 in mods and run 9's easily. Its not that easy to get a diesel to go that fast like it is the vette.

ksss
03-07-2007, 11:14 AM
Your right it is hugely expensive. The truck I am refering to has about about 65K tied up in the truck (as I was told). The truck is an 02 LB7. If that number is true about half of that would be in go fast parts assuming he bought it new (which I don't know). The diesel trucks can go fast for relatively cheap money. When you want to go really fast it gets expensive.

Blessed 1
03-07-2007, 11:29 AM
I just want to be able to get in the passing lane and have power. Right now it takes a minute and with my 16ft open trailer and 2 60" Examrks that was no problem. I now have a 20ft Enclosed (7 ft tall) and 3 60"'s so Its a lot more weight.

stroker51
03-07-2007, 10:43 PM
I realize the discussion isn't about PSD's but my experiences have mostly been with the 7.3's. I would assume other trucks and tuning are similar? A 7.3 with stock injectors is only good for about 75 HP over stock, any more than that, need bigger injectors. There is a 96 4 door short bed from around here that runs mid 12's in the 1/4 mile on his tow burn on the chip. And there is a Cummins pulling truck, that NO one around here will try to race, vette or not. With enough money, you can do a lot with these diesels.

TXNSLighting
03-07-2007, 11:22 PM
Vette eater? Thats about the funniest thing I have heard in a long time! My friend has a cummins dodge that put down over 600hp and over 1,200ft/lbs of torque. His best time at the track is high 14's. He has a huge aftermarket turbo, custom programed pcm, stacks, heavy duty clutch and alot of other mods. I wish you lived closer so I could run you in my stock 99 SS Camaro. I would leave you like your standing still. My SS ran 12.9 BONE STOCK. The Z06 vette with just better tires runs high 10's.

Am I saying a diesel cant be made fast? NO thats not what I am saying at all but I know 5 guys with diesels and 4 of those are duramax diesels and all 4 have been reprogrammed, exhaust and intake and non of them have run better than a high 14's.

high 14's is quite slow for some diesles. look into it more, there are plenty of diesels running low 11's. and 600 hp out of a cummins, isnt that much. they can put out close to 900 hp. so vett eater is very true. standing still huh? well not very likely...ive raced plenty od ss camaros, and only had trouble with one of them.

TXNSLighting
03-07-2007, 11:28 PM
you can do more than 75 horse over stock on a 7.3, i had a 130 horse chip in my 7.3 and it did just fine. trust me i love the powerstroke, its a hoss of an engine. and it can run right with the cummins and duramax. but u have to put a little more money into it than a cummins. but theyre all fun. i prefer the powerstroke actually.

CutNLawns
03-08-2007, 12:03 AM
Ahhh diesles can run and yes they can be vette killers! This truck has reached the high 11's

example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y210NRGehlI

ProStreetCamaro
03-08-2007, 12:15 AM
high 14's is quite slow for some diesles. look into it more, there are plenty of diesels running low 11's. and 600 hp out of a cummins, isnt that much. they can put out close to 900 hp. so vett eater is very true. standing still huh? well not very likely...ive raced plenty od ss camaros, and only had trouble with one of them.


Point is a stock Z06 will run low 11's off the show room floor and high 10's on a good tire. Throw a little spray on it and your looking at mid to low 10's. throw 200 to 225 on it and your looking at busting into the 9's.

BTW I have 2 camaros. Care to try this one? This is why I use this scren name. BTW I think I came across as being a smart @$$ which I wasnt trying to do. I know there are some fast diesels out there. I have seen a few of them at the track that ran very good.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-5438345282970814499&q=1976+camaro&hl=en

dozerman21
03-08-2007, 12:20 AM
It's not as easy to get a diesel to run like a Vette, but when you compare dollar for dollar, diesels are very impressive. The ZO6 is the fastest Vette, and they go for around $65K-$70K. You can buy A LOT of performance parts for the $20K difference. I just think it's pretty awesome that a 6,000+lb. 4WD diesel truck is even in the same conversation as a car like a Vette.


The Z06 vette with just better tires runs high 10's

The ZO6's run 11.5-12.00. Car and Driver ran one with aftermarket tires (not slicks) and got a 11.70. If the diesel drags come to your town, you should go. There are a sh!tload of diesels running in the 11's, and some in the 10's.

KSSS- Are you going to get the '09 Camaro?:cool: Those look sharp! I'd love to get one, but I'd like to buy a '67-69 Camaro or '69-'70 Mach 1 and restore it. I saw the prototype '09 SS with the louvered headlights, and it was tough looking!:drinkup: I think it's going to have the current Vette engine (6.2L?).

CutNLawns
03-08-2007, 08:10 PM
I'm guessing the Z06 would not run in the 11's with 3000# in the back seat.....I mean trunk....i mean....well you know what I mean!

ksss
03-08-2007, 10:13 PM
Dozerman,
That's the tenative plan. I am hoping that the car is all that it can be. The General has a track record of releasing an "almost killer" car. I really hope they don't do that with this car. I am not really happy with interior of the prototype. I just bought the wife an Impala SS this last weekend and traded her Saab 9-3. I think were both really missing the Saab. The Impala did somethings right and well true to the Generals rep. not everything right. We needed a bigger car and considering that we are 4 hours from the nearest Saab dealer was really the issue. I really like the 9-5 Saab.

dozerman21
03-08-2007, 10:49 PM
Dozerman,
That's the tenative plan. I am hoping that the car is all that it can be. The General has a track record of releasing an "almost killer" car. I really hope they don't do that with this car. I am not really happy with interior of the prototype. I just bought the wife an Impala SS this last weekend and traded her Saab 9-3. I think were both really missing the Saab. The Impala did somethings right and well true to the Generals rep. not everything right. We needed a bigger car and considering that we are 4 hours from the nearest Saab dealer was really the issue. I really like the 9-5 Saab.

Yea, I know what you mean. I was disappointed when they introduced the new GTO's. They're fast, but they don't have the characteristics of the 60's version, the true GTO's. I came real close to buying a 2002 Ram-Air T/A, but I changed my mind thinking they would probably bring the Camaro or T/A back. The car also felt a little outdated compared to some others. I still think they look sweet though!:usflag: I missed my first auto show in years due to the flu. They had a Camaro prototype there that I wanted to see. With the way these UN-restored muscle cars are skyrocketing, I may end up with a new Camaro! That wouldn't be a bad thing if they're done right.:clapping:

ksss
03-09-2007, 01:31 PM
I have owned 4 Camaros since I was in high school. The 96 SS was by far the fastest and it looked great although I did really like the looks of 90 IROC car. The cars also had many draw backs. This time I am holding out for a complete sports car. One that will haul butt, look good and also not be a chore to drive, and throw in a good level of dependability. Boy I hope they can build a car like that. Give it a go fast name like Z28 RS/SS and I'll stand in line to buy one.