1500 enough truck?

[Bob_McNaughton]

I'm currently debating on what truck to purchase and LC towing/ plowing issues. I can get a incredably sweet deal on a loaded 2001 Dodge 2500HD truck, at invoice with another 2k in rebates. But my wife is choking at the $500-550 a month truck payment when there will be no income coming in from the business until I start it next year. (the car we will be replacing with already costs $200.00 a month, so its a net increase of 300-350 a month)

However, after talking with a few people, and looking around. It appears that a really nice 1998 Dodge 1500 i'm looking at will be more than enough to handle my trailer/mower towing applications. I can grab one of these for under 17k, with light payments in the area of $290.00 a month. (only 30k on the odometer and only another $100.00 a month).

So my question is this. Is plowing worth it the added expenses of a HD truck, plow gear, accessories, salt machine and all the BS? Or would I be better sticking to mowing? Our winters have been real spotty around here for the last 20 years or so.

I don't plan on plowing this winter, as I won't be starting my business until January for lawn cutting. My original plan was to work winters in sales, during my lawn cutting downtime. Making a solid 2-4k a month during November, December and January while I await mowing weather.

Would a fullsize extended cab 1998 Dodge 1500 w/30k on OD be sufficient for my needs if I don't intend to plow? Will I lose cutting customers if I don't plow or do most customers handle their own driveways or deal with plow only companies?

Any advice would be very much appreciated, i'm trying to make a truck decisions this week. Of course, I want the new one, but $550.00 a month right now is pretty crazy - especially if I don't get into plowing that much or at all.

[racerdave]

Bob, the 1500 would be plenty for you starting out. Later as you get larger then maybe a 2500hd would be needed. But for now ,keeping your costs down is more important. Cash-flow is the blood of any business and must be maintained at a healthy level.

My ? is. Should you buy this truck as a personal truck, our should you buy it thru your Biz.

Maybe you should get this posted in the elements Of business forum.

Good luck
David

[lawnboy82]

if all you are gonna do is cut lawns, then you are fine. it is when you get into moving topsoil, and stone that you go overload real fast. a 1500 can handle a yard or two of mulch no problem though. however as a rule of thumb. cutting lawns 1500 no problem, without trailer. cutting with trailer, or doing lots of side work, get at least a 2500.

[Bob_McNaughton]

I agree on the cash flow aspects. Come this spring, i'm going to have some healthy equipment costs to adjust to when I purchase my gear.

I'm the kinda guy that likes everything top of the line, new, and expensive. I think we all are deep down. Not very practical eh? Hehe.

Can a 1500 handle towing without much trouble?

Back when I did LC part time when I was 17, I pulled a tandem trailer with a scag, and tons of gear behind a 4cyl. Ford Ranger. I survived, but the engine took a nose dive at 80k after I sold it to my cousin. (I paid for the new engine for him to not shaft him)

So it can be done, but burning up a 10k ranger is one thing, burning up a 1500 Dodge would take a big bite.

How good do 1500's handle enclosed trailers with 2 machines in em? I can deal with the 350.00 a month payment if it will do the job. But a 550.00 a month payment on a 2500 is just a big chunk to chew on a startup.

Thanks for the reply.

[KirbysLawn]

Are these gas or diesel trucks? If you drive many miles in the truck then diesel will be the best option.

[lawnboy82]

if you want an enclosed trailer with 2 machines in it, go 2500 turbo diesel, or if you are already up in those numbers, go for the 3500 turbo diesel. cause an enclosed trailer gets real heavy, and will sure as heck burn up your gas tank real fast. i know one person with an enclosed trailer. its big, maybe 16 foot. his truck is a gmc 2500 with the turbo diesel and it does it. but for the weight alone, get the 3500. otherwise, go with an open trailer and the 1500.

[Bob_McNaughton]

Ugh, so a 1500 can't handle a 14' Enclosed with a 60ztr and a 36wb on it?

Man, i'm starting to get depressed. Hehe

[SodFather]

I just bought a 2001 1500 this year with the big 5.9 in it and its a great truck for towing. Only problem with it is it can NOT handle a big 8ft plow. The dealer has an option for a plowing upgrade which beafs up the front springs, but it is not for the 1500. If you can find a used 2500 you would be better off if you do alot of plowing.

[Bob_McNaughton]

What do you tow behind it Sod? I'm not so much worried about plowing now, as I am whether the 1500 will not do a 14' enclosed with a rider and a wb.

[lawnboy82]

get the 2500 with the cummins, you wont regret it, and this is coming from a ford man. lol. its just that a 1500, will drop real fast when you load that kind of weight on there, and then goin up the hills you will hate the truck, and yourself for not goin diesel.

[jeffyr]

My personal truck is a 96 dodge 1500 (360 v-8)that I use when my worktruck is in the shop and in the fall when I don't have to catch clippings or take debris. The 1500 pulls okay, although I have heard about other people that have had tranny problems. I am pulling a 12 ft trailer that weighs in at 3200-3500 lbs with equipment. The problem is the brakes on the 1500 (I should have brakes on the trailer and will by the fall, which will make me feel better). But if I have alot of weight in the bed (alot for a 1500) it accelerates and handles okay, but stopping is no good. I have been meaning to check to see if extreme duty pads are available. Next item on the list.

Anti lock means just that--they won't lock up.

jeffyr

[SodFather]

My 1500 tows a 14' Enclosed with a 36" Walker and a 36" Scag in it but not everyday its my personal truck but I have towed with it. If I where buying it for everyday towing use I would have went with the 2500 or 3500 with diesel. That $300 dollar payment my seem cheap now but if you figure in your maintance costs over the time you have the truck and use it for towing, it will come out pretty close to that 500 dollar payment.

[roscioli]

Bob, you dont seem too concerned about hauling mulch and stone, right? An engine is an engine, and you can most likely get the same engine in the 1500 as teh 2500. Go with diesal if possible, used = huge savings, and they last forever.
The engine size and brake size is what you need for hauling a trailer. If you are worried about plowing and hauling mulch, go 2500-3500. If you are worried about pulling the trailer, just get the biggest engine you can find. My 94 f-150 with the 302 ci, (5 liter) can haul 2 yards of mulch no problem, but i dont like going up hills with my 12' open trailer. It has plenty of stopping power for this trailer though, with a rider, a wb, 2-21's, gas, blowers, trimmers, whatever i can fit in it. I wish i had the 351 or the diesal.
So in short, get a big engine, and big brakes. 1500, 2500, 3500, that stuff just matters for your springs (to haul junk in the bed) and for plowing. And, by the way, i have never heard of a car company (correct me if i am wrong), using a different tranny with the same engine in different capacity trucks. If its a 5.2 or a 5.9 (dodge), it has one tranny. If its diesal or v10, it has another. Its not: if it is a 1500 it has one, 2500 another.
This post is getting long, but i am realizing now that you probably cant get bigger brakes in a 1500, but thats a question for someone else, and whether or not your trailer brakes will help you stop is the same deal, i dont know.
hope this helps rather than confuses you!
-mike

[Eric ELM]

I pulled a 24' enclosed trailer with my 3/4 ton truck with 2 Choppers and a 430 JD in it, but on a windy day, it was a load. I finally went with a 14' open trailer which is much lighter and easier to pull. If I had it to do all over, I would of gotten the diesel 3/4 ton. You will probably save enough in fuel to make the extra payment for it.

For plowing, I feel the 3/4 ton is the best way to go, especially when you get those 12" storms and the snow is real wet. You need some extra weight or you will have problems pushing it. You also need the extra heavy components of the 3/4 ton.

[TLS]

roscioli,

Acutally you are a little off with the transmission theory. I dont know much about Dodge or Ford (although it probably holds true for those as well), but I am a big Chevy guy. The following all applies to Chevy/GMC: 1] In a 1500 you have a choice of V-6 4.3L, a V-8 4.8L and 5.3L. You either get a 5 speed manual transmission or a 4L60E (700R4) automatic transmission. The GVWR's range from 6100lbs to 6400lbs (depending on 2or4WD). 2] In a 2500 you have a choice of V-8 5.3L and 6.0L with either a 5 speed manual or a 4L60 automatic or upgrade to a 4L80 automatic. The 2500's GVWR's are all 8600lbs. 3] In the new 2500HD's you have a choice of gas V-8's of 6.0L and 8.1L . And a Turbo diesel V-8 of 6.6L. You have a choice of HD5speed and HD6 speed manuals and 4L80E and Allison automatics. Their GVWR are 9200lbs. 4] Then you have 3500's (they have the dual rear wheels) and have the same options as the 2500HD with the addition of a higher GVWR of 12,000lbs. 5] Then to reall confuse you....you have the old body style 3500HD with a straight front axle. You can still get the old 6.5 turbo diesel or the new 8.1L detuned to 270hp with either a 4L80E-HD or 5+6speed manuals with a GVWR of 15,000 lbs.

Bob,
I know, I know, a little long winded, but If I were you Bob, I would look around a bit. The used market is flooded with trucks and you can pick up a 1-2yr old model with very low milage for $10,000 less than sticker. I would suggest that you go with the 2500HD (GM) or 2500 (Dodge) or F-250HD (Ford). They aren't that much more than a 1500 or F-150 and will suit your needs better. Remember an enclosed trailer isn't only heavier, but its as aerodynamic as a billboard! I dont know what kind of winters you have there, but when I think of Michigan, I think "SNOW". Plowing can be a very good "extra" to offer your customers, and with the 3/4 Ton truck it will allow for better reliability while doing this. As for the Diesel option, thats up to you. In the used market, sometimes diesels dont hold their value and you can get them for about the same as a gasser. New, diesels are $3500 to $6000 more. People may say that you will do fine with a 1500, but trust you instinct and go the 3/4T route. Start NOW with drumming up plowing customers, you can always "call in sick" to your day job when it snows!

Good Luck

[Evan528]

I bought a new f-250 ext cab v-8 last June. Boy do I regret not getting a deisel now..... I should have listended to Kirbys multiple posts urging me to go with the deisel. I do alot of extremly heavy pulling as I do mulching 2-3 days a week. With 5 yards of mulch in my trailer I cant go above 30mph up hill! For pulling the trailer with mowers its perfect but with extreme weight Deisel is the way to go. You may not think your going to do much mulching now but beleave me you will....... people are extremly lazy now in days!

[Bob_McNaughton]

Tommy,

Thanks for the reply. I've checked the used market for 2500's and they seem very very scarce.

I talked with a guy at my local Dodge dealer, and he said the reason for that is people that buy a 2500+ truck usually don't lease, and usually use it for commercial applications. So they seldom sell them after 1-2, even 3 years.

He seems to be right, after 3 solid days of searching for 2500's (in any make), i've only found a couple, and they were both in horid condition. :(

But your right, plowing, however infrequent the snows have been here, can be a great added bonus. An extra 1-3k a month in plowing revenues over a long winter can be a big boon!

The 1500 really doesn't give me any options in terms of trailers, plowing, or heavy loads. While the deal is nice, and i'm quick to jump on it, after I think about it, it doesn't appear to be the best thing to do.

I guess I will hold off on starting any business this year, and use the winter to search for a good, low mile, good condition 2500. At least then, I will be fully prepared for anything I might encounter next season. I just don't want to be limited with my equipment, this can kill a new business.

[Chopper Lover]

Bob...

I have a Chevy 1500 and I also have a 14' enclosed, tandem axle, electric brake, trailer. The truck will pull the trailer with no trouble. Although the truck "squats" just a bit, it stops fine and I am happy with that combo.

But since you want to "get it right the first time" I think you should go 3/4 ton or heavier... I think you will be double guessing yourself for the entire time you have the 1500 truck.

My next truck is going to be a Heavy Duty 3/4 or 1 ton 4x4 pickup. Hopefully a deisel with A/C, towing and plow packages.

Mark

[highpoint2]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by roscioli
[B]"Bob, you dont seem too concerned about hauling mulch and stone, right? An engine is an engine, and you can most likely get the same engine in the 1500 as teh 2500. Go with diesal if possible, used = huge savings, and they last forever...'''
So in short, get a big engine, and big brakes. 1500, 2500, 3500, that stuff just matters for your springs (to haul junk in the bed) and for plowing. "

Bob,
First of all, You can't get the Cummins Diesel in a 1500 puckup. THEY DONT MAKE THEM. Nobody puts a diesel in a 1/2 ton truck. They havent done that since the 80's. Second, springs do matter for more than "hauling junk in the bed." They keep an overloaded trailer from DRAGING THE TONGE DOWN THE ROAD!!
Really, Bob, I think you'd most happy in the long run with the 2500 Cummins. I did the 1500 thing for a while, but the torque of the turbo diesel is a completely different world. You wont grunt up hills, You'll spend literally 1/2 the $ on fuel. YOU WONT REGRET IT!!!
One thing. If you get a used one, make it a stick. Dodge's automatic is notorious for fouling up.

Good luck!!

[carl28]

DONT BUY A DODGE YOU WILL REGRET IT FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIFE

[Alan]

Something that is being totally overlooked here, in all this mumbo about 1500/2500 is the axle ratio of the truck. Powertrains are all the same components for the most part, regardless of the series truck they are stuffed in. I towed a LOT of miles with an 89 K1500 with 305, OD auto and 3.73 gears. Heavy stuff and over the road runs, some of it. Rarely was that truck underpowered. I had upgraded to 245-75/16 load range E rubber and added one leaf to the rear springs. Was it ideal? No. But it was a perfectly usable and dependable truck.

That one got replaced with a K2500HD, 350, OD Auto and 3.73s again. Better power, certainly, and it will pull bad grades one gear higher as a rule. But not necessary.

The 350 will push better than the 305, but not enough to make a practical difference.

Current tow rig is an S-10, 4.3, OD auto and 3.42 gears. 3.73 would be nice in it but we've got two now and adding a third and they are all the same, apparently 3.42 was the standard ratio for those axles. Come to think of it, 3.73 was optional in the big trucks too. The S tows a 14' open trailer with a hydro walk and a 60" Lazer every day and shoves an 8' Sno-Way plow in the winter.

Worst tow rig I ever drove was a K2500 with the 6.5 and OD auto,, no idea what the gers were but the thing was only turning 1800 or so at 70, would not pull for beans.

If there is a moral to all this it is that there are things besides the series or engine to consider in a truck.

[roscioli]

Dixie, thanks for the correction, last week someone had posted a list like yours (from chevy i think), but with what i was saying, one tranny/engine. Not including sticks of course.
Highpoint and Bob- I have a 150, and can load anything i want in the trailer with no real effect on the tail end of the truck. The tongue by no means is dragging on the ground.
I wasnt trying to convince him to get a 1/2 ton, i totally agree that a 3/4 is better.

[Fallguy]

buy a dodge and get ready to keep up with everything new that comes out on your dealers lot - you wont have a choice with all the trips to the service area.:eek:

[TLS]

Originally posted by Alan

Worst tow rig I ever drove was a K2500 with the 6.5 and OD auto,, no idea what the gers were but the thing was only turning 1800 or so at 70, would not pull for beans.

It must have had 3.42:1's in it for those low revs. My Dads (heavy) 95 Suburban 6.5TD will smoke me in a race, pulling or empty. His is heavily modified, but even stock it pulled very well. He has 3.73:1's and so do I. This one you drove must have been a lemon or something. Those are nice revs for milage though!