New lighting companies

[bumper]

Went the California Landscape Contractors Association Show this past week. Have been there many times before but was amazed at the number of low voltage lighting companies there to show their products. Seemed like lots of start ups competing for the low voltage market.

Leaving the name of the company out, this rep with one brass fixture for each hand bangs them together and states, bet FX cannot do this. Wonder if that company will be around in a couple years to honor their "lifetime" warranty on fixtures.

Anybody notice the quick increase is low voltage suppliers??

[NightScenes]

It seems that there is a new manufacturer every other week. I think that there are now over 120 of them but I bet there aren't more than 12 that are worth using.

[High Performance Lighting]

Went the California Landscape Contractors Association Show this past week. Have been there many times before but was amazed at the number of low voltage lighting companies there to show their products. Seemed like lots of start ups competing for the low voltage market.

Leaving the name of the company out, this rep with one brass fixture for each hand bangs them together and states, bet FX cannot do this. Wonder if that company will be around in a couple years to honor their "lifetime" warranty on fixtures.

Anybody notice the quick increase is low voltage suppliers??

The increase has not been quick it's been going on for several yrs. Bumper I was there Wednesday too and every year I come away saying pretty much the same thing you did. However I have been wrong. I don't remember 1 company going out of business in the 17 yrs I've been around. I guess that's a good thing since it shows there is a strong demand for lighting.

There are few true manufacturers who actually manufacturer their own products these days(Nightscaping,F/X, Vista( aluminum) to name a couple do most of their own). Many who call themselves manufacturers are really distributors.

There are plenty of gardeners and low end landscapers out there all too willing to use the cheapest materials they can get there hands on. They don't service what they sell so they won't be around when it falls apart. This creates an excellent opportunity for a quality contractor to come in and replace the whole thing with something that performs and lasts. The consumer takes it in the shorts because they generally don't know the difference between a $30 bullett and a $100 one.

[ChampionLS]

There are few true manufacturers who actually manufacturer their own products these days(Nightscaping,F/X, Vista( aluminum) to name a couple do most of their own). Many who call themselves manufacturers are really distributors.

There are plenty of gardeners and low end landscapers out there all too willing to use the cheapest materials they can get there hands on. They don't service what they sell so they won't be around when it falls apart. This creates an excellent opportunity for a quality contractor to come in and replace the whole thing with something that performs and lasts. The consumer takes it in the shorts because they generally don't know the difference between a $30 bullett and a $100 one.


One thing I have to say, is I see the marketplace through two eyes. On one hand Im a contractor, and have been since 1991. On the other hand, I represent a lighting manufacturer and not everything that revolves around dollars has to do with quality. There are many lighting fixtures on the market today that are imported and made overseas. The low end ones are aluminum and go right up through brass, copper, and stainless. Some of the popular manufacturers private label these with their own colors/ powder coating and retail packaging. If you look closely, you'll see some familiarities between brands. There are many $30 dollar fixtures that are equal to $100 dollar ones, but people will still think higher price means higher quality- not necessarily true.

There are exception companies that go out of their way to manufacture their own brand, and time has proven their products to last. In our contractor clinic seminars, we always have an individual who claims they make good money on service calls. While these guys are going out and charging $75 for a service call plus parts, The smarter contractors are busy with new installations, making several thousand dollars a day with no callbacks. I would leave the servicing for the homeowners who chose the cheap way out.

[bumper]

No need for me to switch loyalties at this point. Quality of the fixture and or components is just one part of the game. Customer service is the other. Given a choice between the two companies I generally use who've proven themselves time and time again vs . some yahoo banging his fixtures together to make his point.....in front of which customer would I put the latter, the competitions of course :clapping:

[NightScenes]

Champion, are you saying that as contractors, we should not be interested in service? We should put our focus on new installs only? Please clarify this for me.

[High Performance Lighting]

One thing I have to say, is I see the marketplace through two eyes. On one hand Im a contractor, and have been since 1991. On the other hand, I represent a lighting manufacturer and not everything that revolves around dollars has to do with quality. There are many lighting fixtures on the market today that are imported and made overseas. The low end ones are aluminum and go right up through brass, copper, and stainless. Some of the popular manufacturers private label these with their own colors/ powder coating and retail packaging. If you look closely, you'll see some familiarities between brands. There are many $30 dollar fixtures that are equal to $100 dollar ones, but people will still think higher price means higher quality- not necessarily true.

There are exception companies that go out of their way to manufacture their own brand, and time has proven their products to last. In our contractor clinic seminars, we always have an individual who claims they make good money on service calls. While these guys are going out and charging $75 for a service call plus parts, The smarter contractors are busy with new installations, making several thousand dollars a day with no callbacks. I would leave the servicing for the homeowners who chose the cheap way out.

If you want to achieve any kind of long term success in the business of low voltage landscape lighting design/ build then I suggest you offer maintenance programs for the systems that you install. Even with the finest products available your design will go to hell in a hand basket in no time without follow up maintenance. Gardeners cannot be trusted to keep plant materials clear of lenses. lamp Burn outs that are not replaced in a reasonable amount of time will lead to more burnouts. What you're left with is a portrait that's missing teeth. You should be selling most of your work from your previous projects. You can't do that if they are not looking as good as the day you installed them. Clients who are plunking down $25,000 want to know that you're going to be around to support them and their lighting system as time goes on.

[bumper]

Lets say you install 30 lights in combination of pathway, downlights and uplights, cost of the install was 6.5k. What dollar amount would you be looking at for a yearly maintenance contract or would you do T & M for items not covered by the manafacturer or your warranty?

And Champion there is good money to be made in both arenas...sometimes I prefer installs, other times I like hit and run. Combination has worked well thus far.

[High Performance Lighting]

T & M for all maintenance work with a $100 minimum. Some others may have a set price formula that works for them but I haven't figured it out yet. T & M for maintenance only. Lump sum bidding for everything else this way you are not working by the hour for all other more profitable work.

[NightScenes]

If you want to achieve any kind of long term success in the business of low voltage landscape lighting design/ build then I suggest you offer maintenance programs for the systems that you install. Even with the finest products available your design will go to hell in a hand basket in no time without follow up maintenance. Gardeners cannot be trusted to keep plant materials clear of lenses. lamp Burn outs that are not replaced in a reasonable amount of time will lead to more burnouts. What you're left with is a portrait that's missing teeth. You should be selling most of your work from your previous projects. You can't do that if they are not looking as good as the day you installed them. Clients who are plunking down $25,000 want to know that you're going to be around to support them and their lighting system as time goes on.


Besides these things that Mike is saying, you also are building a business. I plan to retire one day by selling this company that I have worked so hard to build. One of the most important selling points for my corporation is going to be the yearly maintenance contracts. Those are money in the bank to a prospective buyer of a company.

I think the maintenance area of the business is an extremely important one. We do many thousands of dollars a year just in maintenance and we are working to develop a separate division that is dedicated to maintenance only.

[High Performance Lighting]

Besides these things that Mike is saying, you also are building a business. I plan to retire one day by selling this company that I have worked so hard to build. One of the most important selling points for my corporation is going to be the yearly maintenance contracts. Those are money in the bank to a prospective buyer of a company.

I think the maintenance area of the business is an extremely important one. We do many thousands of dollars a year just in maintenance and we are working to develop a separate division that is dedicated to maintenance only.

A sound strategy indeed.

[seolatlanta]

One of my goals this year was to have a truck dedicated to service. I was working on a letter to send out to all of my clients that was going to establish a " 3 day" policy on bulb replacements. I have to admit sometimes it takes me a week or so to get to bulb changes and thats not good.

i have gotten so many awesome clients from answering service calls and repairing systems that were poorly installed. It is at least 15% of my business.

Dave

[High Performance Lighting]

One of my goals this year was to have a truck dedicated to service. I was working on a letter to send out to all of my clients that was going to establish a " 3 day" policy on bulb replacements. I have to admit sometimes it takes me a week or so to get to bulb changes and thats not good.

i have gotten so many awesome clients from answering service calls and repairing systems that were poorly installed. It is at least 15% of my business.

Dave


Dave you will find that there is alot of business out there just remodeling and or replacing failed equipment/systems. It's a double edged sword what distributors and manufacturers release upon the general public after one of their seminars designed to sell product and build brand loyalty. They succeed in producing few contractors who are serious about putting in a good system and standing behind it and servicing it. Unfortunately they miserably fail when many of those who they "train" are only in it for the buck, install the cheapest junk and are no where to be found after the check clears. Use it to your advantage and give the homeowner what they originally wanted and profit handsomely for it.

[ChampionLS]

Hello everyone,

This is kind of a tricky question. I'll do my best to get my point out. I sense that a lot of lighting contractors don't mind dealing with maintenance. I was always under the impression that maintenance is due to poor design and lack of quality fixtures and wiring. Yes, nothing is meant to last forever, and eventually lamps do burnout and losing one can shorten the life of others. I never gave it much thought to who is replacing those lamps. Having a routine maintenance plan is obviously a great service to offer.

Now on the other hand, I've always worked in the landscape construction industry, and the lighting products that are available are mostly installed by construction crews. Their outlook is much different on lighting. Most will not offer any maintenance plan, and don't want to be bothered with call backs due to lamp failure, or a fixture that's broken. Once the job is done, they're done and it's onto the next project. The hardscape industry has been lacking quality fixtures since day one. Most everyone is familiar with surface mount and recessed mount lights. There aren't too many options available, and the ones that are have been designed poorly. Most of the novelty style lights have tarnished even the thought of adding lighting to their jobs. Someone mentioned new lighting companies coming into the picture- There are two new brands (Evening Star) which is my own design, and (Integral) an associates design. The feedback from the industry-both at shows, through email and at Contractor Clinics is that of fear from failure and callbacks. We know our designs and applications fit the niche and are fail proof, but it is the clash of "maintenance or no maintenance" and how different the two industries are. My conclusion after this thread is, landscape lighting professionals prefer maintenance and offer it as a long term guarantee of satisfaction. The landscaping and construction industry prefers a easy to install system, preferably long lasting to avoid call backs and service.

Anthony

The mixed signals come from construction contractors who will install lighting

[ChampionLS]

I should also add, that while the lighting professionals are fixing, renovating, or even replacing a failed system, this will not be so easy in the hardscape construction field. Most wiring is done at time of construction, built into walls, pillars and pavingstones. If their systems fail, it's usually done for good. The only way to repair the existing systems that are out there is to break up the project. Depending on the job this may not be feasible. it is imperative to get the lighting installation done correctly the first time.

[NightScenes]

Integral is part of Escort and Mike Hartman. He has been putting out quality fixtures for quite some time. I use some of their fixtures on my very high end projects. I haven't heard of Evening Star until today.

As for quality and maintenance, even a RR will not last very long if you don't change the oil every now and then. I would venture to say that most people wouldn't even think about not washing their car every once in a while. These are just common maintenance issues for a system that we use to travel in. I think that if someone is willing to spend thousands of dollars on a quality lighting system, they will be willing to pay something to make certain that it works properly for a very long time. If it is quality material and installed properly, with a good maintenance program it will last for many years.

[Pro-Scapes]

Paul and Mike make excellent points. Additionally a well maintained lighting system and your constant contact with the client throughout the year keeps your name in front of them. Keeping your lighting systems performing at thier best also will keep the clients happy and they are more likley to either A) reffer you to someone else and B) reuse you should they build/buy a new home.

If you leave bulb changes up to the client or repairs up to joe handy man I can promise you your system will not be up to your standards within a few years. In the short time I have been doing lighting there is one system I dont maintain (due to distance and it was a special job for my dist) and already its been hacked.

to me its just silly to think you can run any kind of pro installation company without standing behind your work or servicing it. How would you like it if your car dealer sold you a new truck then said find some one else to fix it I only wanna sell em.

At least make a few bucks more and sell off the maint contracts to a real pro in your area.

[High Performance Lighting]

Integral is part of Escort and Mike Hartman. He has been putting out quality fixtures for quite some time. I use some of their fixtures on my very high end projects. I haven't heard of Evening Star until today.

As for quality and maintenance, even a RR will not last very long if you don't change the oil every now and then. I would venture to say that most people wouldn't even think about not washing their car every once in a while. These are just common maintenance issues for a system that we use to travel in. I think that if someone is willing to spend thousands of dollars on a quality lighting system, they will be willing to pay something to make certain that it works properly for a very long time. If it is quality material and installed properly, with a good maintenance program it will last for many years.


I'm not familiar with either brand. Can someone post a link for their websites. As for fixtures built into hardscapes they should be installed like line voltage fixtures with conduit. This way if a wire goes bad a new one can be pulled in. Built ins should always be non ferrous. Brass, copper, stainless, bronze even composite. If the fixture is still available and if need be you can change cover/face plates without having to break into the existing hardscape structure.

[niteliters]

I should also add, that while the lighting professionals are fixing, renovating, or even replacing a failed system, this will not be so easy in the hardscape construction field. Most wiring is done at time of construction, built into walls, pillars and pavingstones. If their systems fail, it's usually done for good. The only way to repair the existing systems that are out there is to break up the project. Depending on the job this may not be feasible. it is imperative to get the lighting installation done correctly the first time.

that's where lighting contractors mind set is different..we are always thinking of the longevity of the system and that it will or could need repair...therefore our company never installs a fixture that can't be totally removed and replaced and everything else in between. You and your ilk aren't thinking about 5 years from now someone seeing the lighting and having a negative opinion about your work. You probably would care if the hardscape looked like crap after 5 years. Landscapers have to think about plant growth when planting (or at least some do). They consider maintenance down the road. I do understand though that a brick layer would not. if the job is installed properly it will last the life of the home. If you're going to install lighting you might want to consider adopting a different mind set. If you're manufacturing lights specifically for hardscapes it's not a bad word to adopt "service". We have had customers who grow tired of the look they have and want a complete lighting facelift. Here's a challenge I put to myself at every job. Could I remove, repackage, and take all these fixtures to my customers new house if they move. if I design a system that can do that then there's nothing I can't service.

[NightScenes]

Here is the link for Escort http://www.escortlighting.com/ and integral http://www.integral-lighting.com/ . Mike does make a nice copper fixture.

[High Performance Lighting]

Thank for the links. I'm aware of these guys.

[NightScenes]

I thought you were.

[ChampionLS]

Evening Star Lighting's Website : www.eveningstarlighting.com