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Lynden-Jeff
03-07-2007, 08:10 PM
Hey,

I have never properly understood this but I come to you fellow lawn site members for some clarification. From what I understand a truck and a trailer can have a combined GVWR of roughly 10,000 lbs. After this what do I require? I want to tow a 553 with my ram 1500 and that will put me over 10,000 lbs. I think I need my yellow safety sticker on both truck and trailer but will I also need to carry daily logs? Some clarification would be appreciated!

Cheers
Jeff

Gravel Rat
03-07-2007, 08:59 PM
The best people to ask is someone at the department of motor vehicals. I don't know if Ontario has the National safety code for trucking. Anyhow if you keep your total combination weight at 4999kgs 1 kilogram under 5000 which you have to comply with the NSC rules.

Once your at the 5000kg 11,023lb gvw mark then the truck is classed as commercial.

shepoutside
03-07-2007, 10:09 PM
Over 10,000 you do need the yellow safety stickers, and make sure they are where they are suppose to go, they are getting sticky about that. You need logs only if you travel more then 150 miles from your base address. This is from the dodge site "When properly equipped, Dodge Ram 1500 Regular Cab 4x2 tows a hefty 4128 kg (9100 lb)." Make sure you don't go over what your truck is rated for, they are getting picky as of late. Are you registered for a CVOR #? Check with the MTO, for more info http://www.mto.gov.on.ca/english/

Lynden-Jeff
03-07-2007, 10:22 PM
I belive I am not registered for a CVOR. What is it? Also where can I get the yellow safety stickers? Any MTO office? I have commercial insurance on the vehical and im towing a maximum of 8000 lbs (I have a class 3 hitch so thats its max).

Cheers
Jeff

jablandscaping
03-08-2007, 08:16 PM
MTO cracked down last summer on all the small and medium sized pick-ups and trailers-everyone walks away with at lease a $300 + fine.
1-no safety stickers
2-plates not licenced for the weight of your commercial vehile-they told me to check the VIN sticker for my allowable weight and I should have known that?
3-daily circle check-regardless of how far you are from home, any road-empty or
or full your GVW is allows on you-
4-CVOR - not being registered is a 300$ fine- they don't like writing all of your info- once your registered they track your fines and record-its free to register.
5- over 10,000 LBS. you need a D licence-that will b a bigger fine-
6-better not have any dust blowing around-that will b an unsafe load fine!

they must have at least 300-400 items listed on the back of the fine they gave me

please check with the MTO and local truck drivers or any landscape guy who looks completly stressed while driving--he'll know
take it easy-or they'll help you--Ontario MTO

Optimum Lawn
03-08-2007, 09:10 PM
Landscape Ontario link to whats needed plus links to the MTO site
http://www.horttrades.com/displaynews.php?n=362

read them all to get it straight:hammerhead: :confused: :dizzy:

For 8000lbs on trailer you will need a CVOR and annual sticker/cert.

if trailer GVWR exceeds 4500kg you will need a class A licence

CVOR requires daily log and circle check

if your trailer "scaled" axle(s) weight is below 6100lbs it does get added to the trucks GVWR weight...this applies for whether you need a CVOR.
Meaning if you carry less than 6100lbs on the trailer axles it will not be added to the GVWR of the truck...important for 3/4 and 1/2 ton trucks.

if the truck and trailer GVWR's exceed 4500kg's you need the annual cert/sticker
if the truck GVWR exceeds 4500kg you need the CVOR also
if you tow more than 6100lbs you will need the CVOR
:dizzy:

Optimum Lawn
03-08-2007, 09:54 PM
[QUOTE=Optimum Lawn;1741792]
if your trailer "scaled" axle(s) weight is below 6100lbs it does get added to the trucks GVWR weight...this applies for whether you need a CVOR.
Meaning if you carry less than 6100lbs on the trailer axles it will not be added to the GVWR of the truck...important for 3/4 and 1/2 ton trucks.


should read......
if your trailer "scaled" axle(s) weight is below 6100lbs it does NOT get added to the trucks Gross weight or Registered Gross Weight...this applies for whether you need a CVOR.
Meaning if you carry less than 6100lbs on the trailer axles it will not be added to the Gross weight or RGW of the truck...important for 3/4 and 1/2 ton trucks.

Lynden-Jeff
03-08-2007, 11:29 PM
Ok so lets get this straight.

A. I should get a CVOR anyways because its free. Does this make it Mandatory to do daily circle checks?

B. For example lets say I tow with a ram 1500 (which I belive is around 6300 lbs?) a 553 bobcat (3700 lbs) and the dry weight of the trailer (2150) for a total of 5850lbs. Does this make my GVRW 6300lbs or 12150? If I had this I technically do not need to do circle checks, do not need a cvor. I would only need safety stickers correct?

C. If you get pulled over by the MTO how do they figure out how much you actually weigh? I travel between brantford and burlington daily and have never really had an MTO so I don't really know what does down.


Thanks for the help, GREATLY appreciated.
Jeff

Optimum Lawn
03-09-2007, 10:11 AM
A. If you get a CVOR and have a RGW of over 4500kg you'll need to do circle checks plus log every day when using vehicle.

B. If your Trailer axle weight is below 6100lbs then that weight will not be added to the weight of the truck ( whatever the scaled weight of the truck would be ...empty or loaded including tongue weight). At 5850lbs your getting close....the tongue will use up some weight but I would scale the trailer loaded with bobcat full of fuel plus etc's to be safe. That would at least determine your RGW ultimately, then it is up to you to flirt with the line.

C. When MTO pulls you over they have a set of portable scales that they will use to measure each axles weight...truck and trailer. If your close on the weights (5850lbs) I would play it safe....CVOR plus RGW of both Gvwr
I've been pulled over :cry: with a 3/4 ton P/U (8600lbs GVWR) and single axle trailer 2900lbs GVWR...rubbed off the trailer GVWR, with no cert stickers and the guy was nice and didn't ticket:clapping: me simply cause he could not confirm the GVWR of the trailer...but said I should cert both cause the MTO staff at the scales will check with the Trailer Manufacture for GVWR.

I believe the fines start at $400 FOR EACH infraction for commercial vehicles
And be VERY nice to the MTO guy/gal...or they like to make you pay.
:dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy:

Lynden-Jeff
03-09-2007, 11:10 AM
Ok I think I get it. I will register the truck for its full GWR and now matter what I haul I should be fine. With a CVOR and a safety stickers I should be good to go without circle checks.

How can I get to a scale? The only place I know that has a scale is the dump lol.

Cheers
Jeff

Optimum Lawn
03-09-2007, 04:36 PM
yep
register the truck for its full GVWR....if it is under 4500kg then you do NOT need a CVOR and the resulting daily circle checks and log.
BUT make sure you keep your trailer axle weights below 6100lbs or your screwed big time....so scale your trailer loaded to confirm your weight since you seem to be cutting it close.

Scales may be at scrap yards, farm supply outlets that have grain handling facilities would be a real good place, gravel pits.

You absolutly need to do the yearly safety on truck and trailer for the yellow stickers (since both GVWR of truck and trailer exceed 4500kg)

cet
03-10-2007, 10:16 AM
1. More then 10,000lbs on the trailer is a A licence not a D.

2. Any trailer over 3500lbs requires brakes and brakes on a trailer requires yellow sticker.

3. Yellow sticker on a trailer requires yellow sticker on the truck.

4. Truck reg. with commercial plates requires CVOR.

5. CVOR means daily walk around book. Failure to produce CVOR $85(I got that ticket Feb. 14). Failure to fill out log book $390(almost got that 1 too). And I almost got plow blocking front licence plate too.

6. It has been explained to us by the MTO that the GVW of the vehicle is everything in the truck and the pin weight of the trailer. You need to load your trailer correctly so you do not overload your tounge weight.

Last year the MTO was checking for 2 tie downs on every mower!

Lynden-Jeff
03-10-2007, 01:24 PM
1. More then 10,000lbs on the trailer is a A licence not a D.

2. Any trailer over 3500lbs requires brakes and brakes on a trailer requires yellow sticker.

3. Yellow sticker on a trailer requires yellow sticker on the truck.

4. Truck reg. with commercial plates requires CVOR.

5. CVOR means daily walk around book. Failure to produce CVOR $85(I got that ticket Feb. 14). Failure to fill out log book $390(almost got that 1 too). And I almost got plow blocking front licence plate too.

6. It has been explained to us by the MTO that the GVW of the vehicle is everything in the truck and the pin weight of the trailer. You need to load your trailer correctly so you do not overload your tounge weight.

Last year the MTO was checking for 2 tie downs on every mower!

Hey,

So if I can not get to a scale should I just register the truck for the GVW in the door of the truck under commercial? Possibly add my max tounge weight to that number and thats the maximum that I could be carrying? I am going to get a cvor, right now I belive my truck is registered for personal use, do I need to register all over again for a new weight/commercial sticker?

Cheers
Jeff

shepoutside
03-10-2007, 08:05 PM
1. More then 10,000lbs on the trailer is a A licence not a D.

THat's combined for both truck AND trailer, not just the trailer :)

Lynden-Jeff
03-10-2007, 08:46 PM
THat's combined for both truck AND trailer, not just the trailer :)

Actually I belive chris was right, unless im reading this wrong. Here is the quote from mto web site:

"Any tractor-trailer or combination of motor vehicle and towed vehicles where the towed vehicles exceed a total gross weight of 4,600 kilograms"

What is the process to get a Clas A or D license. What kind of test is it?

Cheers
Jeff

cet
03-10-2007, 09:42 PM
I had a A licence until my last renewal. I let it go because of my time constraints. To get an A you need to have a written test and a road test and a medical. Do not confuse an A with an AZ. You can still not drive anything with air brakes. A D licence will not help you with trailer weight. The A licence test will include pulling the trailer. I brought my tri-axle empty, He was not to happy to see it empty but did the test any ways. With the road test they are watching to see your pre trip inspection.

If you look on the back of your licence, with a G you can have a combined weight of Truck/trailer 11,000kg., towed vehicle max 4600kg.

Your GVWR includes the tounge weight of the trailer.

Optimum Lawn
03-11-2007, 01:20 PM
Hey Jeff

Since your going to get your CVOR....playing it safe with the trailer:)
Set your RGW using both GVWR of truck and trailer (ie: truck 6300lbs GVWR plus trailer GVWR 7500lbs = about 14000lbs)

Beyond that when loading just do not exceed your max. axle weights especially on the truck rear axle as MTO will check.....the plate with the GVWR info should also state max axle weight for front and rear axles.

Make sure to do daily logs and circle check with the CVOR even if you are using the truck for a personal run to the corner store.

CVOR is not required until the Gross weight (empty or loaded of truck) or Registered Gross Weight (RGW) of the vehile exceeds 4500kg for the truck
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca:81/ISYSquery/IRLB8E3.tmp/5/doc
section 16.(1)(a) explains what is excluded.

Every truck and Van is plated with a commercial plate but your not a commercial motor vehicle until you exceed the 4500kg weight criteria and thus require the CVOR

Annual Cert and sticker is when the GVWR of truck and trailer exceed 4500kg

Read it all carefully and be able to resight it....know the rules.....cause MTO guy may know it but Mr police guy may not

:dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy:

Lynden-Jeff
03-11-2007, 06:58 PM
Hey Jeff

Since your going to get your CVOR....playing it safe with the trailer:)
Set your RGW using both GVWR of truck and trailer (ie: truck 6300lbs GVWR plus trailer GVWR 7500lbs = about 14000lbs)

Beyond that when loading just do not exceed your max. axle weights especially on the truck rear axle as MTO will check.....the plate with the GVWR info should also state max axle weight for front and rear axles.

Make sure to do daily logs and circle check with the CVOR even if you are using the truck for a personal run to the corner store.

CVOR is not required until the Gross weight (empty or loaded of truck) or Registered Gross Weight (RGW) of the vehile exceeds 4500kg for the truck
http://www.e-laws.gov.on.ca:81/ISYSquery/IRLB8E3.tmp/5/doc
section 16.(1)(a) explains what is excluded.

Every truck and Van is plated with a commercial plate but your not a commercial motor vehicle until you exceed the 4500kg weight criteria and thus require the CVOR

Annual Cert and sticker is when the GVWR of truck and trailer exceed 4500kg

Read it all carefully and be able to resight it....know the rules.....cause MTO guy may know it but Mr police guy may not

:dizzy: :dizzy: :dizzy:

hey,

Ok but I thought aslong as the trailer is under 6100 lbs I techniqually do not need a cvor, just safety stick on both truck and trailer? ? If I did get a cvor that means I need to do circle checks EVERY TIME I use the truck, wether its loaded or not? I use this truck as a daily driver also and do not want to be doing circle checks every time I go out. now im even more confused lol.

Cheers
Jeff

Lynden-Jeff
03-11-2007, 07:20 PM
I just read the CVOR thing again. It says I only need the CVOR if the TRUCK WEIGHT is more then 4500, this INCLUDES weight put on by the tounge of a trailer. So I could have a 4500 KG trailer and still not need a CVOR unless it applies 3000 + lbs of weight to my truck (which it wouldent. Is this true?

I also reread the daily inspection and it says:

"Applies to trucks and tractors with a registered gross weight or an "actual weight" of more than 4,500 kg (9,920 lbs). "Actual weight" means the weight of the truck or tractor only, which may include weight transferred to it by an attached trailer."

So lets say I have my truck 6400 lbs + trailer 6600 lbs. My truck should be registered for a GVWR of 13000 lbs minimum and I should have a safety sticker because it is a combined weight of more then 4500 KG. I do not need a cvor because my TRUCK will not be more then 4500 KG GVW. I do not need to do daily checks because the trucks weight is again not 4500 KG. I also do not need an A class license because my trailer does not exceed 4500 kg.

Is this all correct? Sorry for the confusion and double posting, this is just what im trying to read and understand.

cet
03-11-2007, 10:45 PM
I don't think your GVWR includes the trailer weight. The GVWR is what you are allowed to carry including the pin weight of the trailer not the entire trailer. So you would need to licence it for your GVWR, I have my dually at 6,000kg.

Lynden-Jeff
03-12-2007, 12:57 AM
So I would be safe registering my truck gvwr which is 6400 lbs plus my max hitch tounge weight 1000 lbs for a total of 7400 lbs? How does one account for cargo or passenger weight? Is this included?

Cheers
Jeff

cet
03-12-2007, 10:46 AM
Everything in the truck is included. If you get stopped and they weight the truck, they will weight it as it sits, you can not remove anything.

Lynden-Jeff
03-12-2007, 03:12 PM
Everything in the truck is included. If you get stopped and they weight the truck, they will weight it as it sits, you can not remove anything.

Hey,

Is there anything wrong with registering the truck for 4499 KG? This way im fine aslong as im not over (which i would not be) but just incase I have 4-5 large passengers on one particular day then im not over weight. I don't really understand why it works that way because what if its just me 99% of the time and on the day I happen to have 4 guys in the truck I get dinged for being over weight. Why woulden't everyone register there truck weight for 4499 kg?

Cheers
Jeff

cet
03-12-2007, 03:29 PM
I have a feeling you would get a ticket for over loading your truck. If you exceed you GVWR then that is illegal. Your sticker is also more expensive and your clean air has to be done every year if you are over 4500kg.

You are never allowed to exceed your GVWR.

Optimum Lawn
03-12-2007, 04:01 PM
Isn't this fun figuring it all out as one part plays on the other...crazy:hammerhead:

For RGW which will be what your trucks ownership will have on it for your maximum licenced truck weight loaded.....if the trailer axle(s) weight is below 6100lbs it does not need to be added to the RGW for the truck...if it is over 6100lbs it NEEDS to be added to the RGW of the truck
Now if your RGW exceeds 4500kg or about 9600lbs, then you need a CVOR.

So assuming your trailer axle weight loaded is less than 6100lbs, set your RGW at say 4400kg...covers max possible weight scenario on the truck without hitting the 4500kg mark.
Now if your trailer axle(s) weight loaded is over 6100lbs you need to combine the trucks max loaded weight (GVWR) "plus" trailer max loaded weight (GVWR) for your RGW...this will put you over the 4500kg mark...thus will require CVOR.

CVOR is only applicable if your RGW exceeds 4500kg....so get this part right cause when MTO scales every axle (which will be your gross weights) you'd better have it right.

Next...because your using a 150 truck be vary careful with your axle weights on the truck (includes weight on hitch)....do not exceed the manufactures weight rating on the axle or you will be overloaded...another fine.

Yes you need the safety inspection sticker (cause GVWR of truck and trailer exceed 4500kg) on both truck and trailer.
Pay close attention to this you guy's with single axle 3000lbs GVWR trailers!!!!
If your trucks GVWR exceeds 6500lbs...get the safety inspection

Also if you require the annual safety sticker YOU MUST stop at the weigh scales when they are open....just like the big trucks. So take note when you fail to check in and MTO comes after you....not to say they would but could.


Jeff.... keep reading each link in the Landscape Ontario site.....and keep track of how each piece plays onto the other via the GVWR and RGW ....is confusing but keep re-reading them to understand....took me a lot of re-reads

For me.... my trailer (2axle with a GVWR of 7700lbs) weight loaded is about 4000lbs...trucks max weight rating (GVWR) is 7700lbs
I have to do the annual safety inspection on truck and trailer and I set my RGW at 4400kg
No CVOR required.

Lynden-Jeff
03-12-2007, 04:10 PM
Hey,

Thanks optimum lawn. the GVWR on the inside of my truck door says 6400 lbs. Is this the MAX WEIGHT that my truck can be or is this the dry weight of my truck? Like chris was saying, if I set my RGW for 4400 kg wouldent I surpass this amount? Could that get me a ticket? Also do you by chance have the link to the mto article where they talk about the 6100 lb trailer weight being combined with the truck? I didn't see that in any of the LO articles or on the mto web site.

Cheers and thanks for the help!
Jeff

Optimum Lawn
03-12-2007, 04:23 PM
Yes you could set your RGW to the same as your Trucks GVWR (6400lbs) but for me I just set it at 4400kgs and no worries of being under licensed.
But yes pay close attention to your weights on the trucks axles.

The GVWR on your truck is the MAXIMUM weight your truck can carry (this includes weight of truck plus load, passengers, fuel, etc's)...so find the number for the rear axle also so you do not overload it. Should be listed on the same plate with ratings for front axle and rear axle.

Then just do not load your trailer axles over the 6100lbs mark:nono:

Richard.

Optimum Lawn
03-12-2007, 04:34 PM
RGW and whether you need to add the trailer weight is here
http://www.horttrades.com/displaynews.php?newsID=115&categoryID=20

Lynden-Jeff
03-12-2007, 04:51 PM
Hey,

Thanks! One last question. Im pretty sure my truck is not registered properly. Do I just go in to the DMV and adjust the RGW of the truck? Will I have to get new stickers aswell? When I bought the truck they registered it for primarily person transperation which I know is wrong. Any idea roughly what this will cost?

Cheers
Jeff

Optimum Lawn
03-12-2007, 06:13 PM
Just go to your Vehicle Licensing office and ask to have your RGW changed.....you'll have to pay more for the extra weight. The "personal use" RGW is 3000kg's...if that meets your requirements then let it be....if not adjust it up accordingly
Also tell them that the vehicle is used for business (they put a sticker on the front plate (left top corner) if the vehicle is used mainly for personal use....there may be a code change in the system needed...not sure. better to ask them and make it all right. If you have the sticker take it off...I did

Plate and sticker stays the same...already commercial plate from get go.

Lynden-Jeff
03-12-2007, 06:36 PM
Ok Thanks, but I lied I have one more question. If we purchase say a F450 dump, which I assume will have a RGW of more then 4500 kg, I can assume it will need daily circle checks and a CVOR?

Cheers and thanks!

Jeff

Optimum Lawn
03-12-2007, 07:11 PM
F450..... CVOR....YEP unless you want to run empty all the time (don't think the truck empty weighs over 4500kg) ...but that would defeat the purpose of the truck.:)

Question for you...what is the max weight :weightlifter: for the rear axle on the 150??
Enquiring mind

Lynden-Jeff
03-12-2007, 07:23 PM
Hey,

I belive its 3400lbs, I don't have the truck here right now however I wrote it down yesterday and it was either 3300 or 3400 and the front axle was nearly the same.

So it makes sense you need the CVOR but when you drive the dump truck EMPTY (under 4500kg) do you need to do the circle checks or just when you hauling a load?

Cheers
Jeff

Optimum Lawn
03-12-2007, 07:47 PM
Well once you put the RGW above 4500kg.....CVOR plus the logs and circle check will need to be done accordingly ALL the time.
Can't see using a F450 as a personal vehicle driving around empty:)
Don't think you would register a F450 at anything but it's GVWR:) plus trailer weight of say 4400kg...unless you hold a class A license to go higher.

If the 150 has a GVWR of 6600lbs and the truck may weigh 5000lbs??itself...only leaves 1600lbs of avaliable load balanced over 2 axles....not much.

cet
03-12-2007, 07:51 PM
CVOR and circle check are not a big deal. The CVOR is free and you only need 1. I keep the original in the house and photo copies in all the trucks that need it. As For the circle check, there is a book you can buy. It has about 50 sheets in it and costs $3. I start the truck and while it is warming up I fill it out. You have to put carrier name(your name), date, time, mileage and licence plate #. There are many areas to check but most are for air brake trucks. On the next line you need to fill in what is not working and I put NIL. Print inspectors name and inspector signs and then driver signs and dates. Maybe 2 minutes. Once a week I check all lights and the rest of the stuff that can go wrong you will know when you are driving it. The biggest pain and expense is yellow sticker every year and E test every year.

You can make your own circle check is you want, you need to have all the things on it that pertains to your truck.

The book has to be filled out to go and get a paper from the corner store.

Lynden-Jeff
03-12-2007, 08:01 PM
Awsome thanks guys, I think im good to go!

Cheers
Jeff

shepoutside
03-13-2007, 11:26 PM
So, I may need a dually? :laugh: