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View Full Version : I Hate Taxes


DAMSLandscaping
03-08-2007, 03:27 PM
Just wanted to tell someone...

jsf343
03-08-2007, 04:31 PM
I hear ya, I hate them too.

LawnScapers of Dayton
03-08-2007, 04:54 PM
help enact the Fair Tax......

jsf343
03-08-2007, 06:03 PM
help enact the Fair Tax......

:confused: huh? do you mean flat tax? what tax is fair? haha

procut
03-08-2007, 06:09 PM
Tel me about it. Damn self employment tax. I just finished up my taxes today and foud out how much I owe. It really wasn't too bad, as I made payments throughout the year.

LawnScapers of Dayton
03-08-2007, 06:38 PM
no not a flat tax.....the Fair tax..... www.fairtax.org check it out...

Az Gardener
03-08-2007, 06:54 PM
Oh I thought you just mis-spelled Texas :laugh:

grandview (2006)
03-08-2007, 07:06 PM
Come over to my part of town I'll show you taxes!:cry: :dizzy:

lawnboy150
03-08-2007, 07:18 PM
taxed when you make it,save it & spend it.... i love it...

Roger
03-08-2007, 09:08 PM
taxed when you make it,save it & spend it.... i love it...

You forgot tax it when you die!

Of any of the taxes, I remain flabbergasted why the government thinks they need a huge percentage, often as much as 50% of what is left in an estate. This is such a huge problem for those with larger estates, being able to pass down assets. Yes, somebody will say, "it only happens to a few," or, "only because the estate was not planned properly," and other such excuses. Hogwash. If I earn it, save it, why can't I pass it down to heirs without phony manipulations to avoid the tax? This is a deterrent from passing wealth to generation to generation, and should be stricken. Why is it even a thought for Congress to consider eliminating the phase-out schedule? Get rid of the death tax!

topsites
03-09-2007, 12:40 AM
Yeah I hate it, too.
What I hate the most is the nonsense, such as the fact that I have to hire an accountant just to come out halfway ahead, when I could've sent the IRS the money my accountant costs on top of what I send them now but no, that's not enough unless you really know your stuff, they just keep sending form after form and letter after letter, and pay pay pay until I just can't do it anymore.

Unemployment tax is another one that eats me alive... That stupid system takes as much time and effort from the unemployed to collect the government's support as it would to find a job in the first place. But what really irks me is the suspicion that most folks who get to collect these benefits are just taking advantage of yet another bureaucratic system so mired in rigmarole that it becomes obvious in short order they are not even to blame for it, when that appears to be the only way to collect benefits.
In not so many words a guy like me can categorically forget ever being able to collect unemployment no matter what the actual circumstances, so what am I even paying this crap for?
grrr....

Sales tax I can tolerate, with all the loopholes it might be the only way for the gov't to collect :laugh:

Of any of the taxes, I remain flabbergasted why the government thinks they need a huge percentage, often as much as 50% of what is left in an estate. This is such a huge problem for those with larger estates, being able to pass down assets. Yes, somebody will say, "it only happens to a few," or, "only because the estate was not planned properly," and other such excuses. Hogwash. If I earn it, save it, why can't I pass it down to heirs without phony manipulations to avoid the tax? This is a deterrent from passing wealth to generation to generation, and should be stricken. Why is it even a thought for Congress to consider eliminating the phase-out schedule? Get rid of the death tax!

Heck, I get frustrated over the phony manipulations I feel I am required to pull off just to lower every day normal tax lol, it would almost appear as if they want 90 cents for every dollar gross, I swear even that probably wouldn't be enough.

..........
On the note of fair tax, I do see where the IRS is coming from, because if the IRS were to leave it up to the individual to pay what each thought was fair, that would work out about like us trying to charge a price the customers think is fair, we all know they wouldn't see a dime.

RedWingsDet
03-09-2007, 12:41 AM
You've got to be kidding me! Who in the world would hate taxes???

LawnScapers of Dayton
03-09-2007, 07:01 AM
the Fair tax, eliminates all income tax for companies and individuals, the estate tax is gone, capital gains tax is gone, then it is replaced with a 23% federal sales tax, and retail prices stay were they are now because companies will not have the income tax burden on them.....so they will lower prices 23-24%....

D

lawnman_scott
03-09-2007, 10:01 AM
the Fair tax, eliminates all income tax for companies and individuals, the estate tax is gone, capital gains tax is gone, then it is replaced with a 23% federal sales tax, and retail prices stay were they are now because companies will not have the income tax burden on them.....so they will lower prices 23-24%....

DYou have to be an idiot not to love the Fair Tax. I have actually told my customers that if this passes I will immediatly be lowering my prices 24%. Its a great thing!!!! And you only get taxed on what you spend, so those who CHOOSE to spend all of their income (the middle and lower class) will be the ones paying the highest tax rate. Its a no brainer, literally..........Taxes suck, but this is just a tax shift, why not focus on out of control govt waste?

LawnScapers of Dayton
03-09-2007, 12:10 PM
It is actually a power shift from the gov. back to the people. The fact that people have no self control when it comes to spending is not the issue, that is their problem, it is not mine or the government's. The fair tax allows taxes to be collected from everyone without issue. Prostitutes, drug dealers, illegals.....they all buy things. thereforeit will also finally spread the cost over everyone..... not just compliant tax payers.

As far as government waste....I agree, what is your solution? Americans seem to love to keep re-electing the same power hungry, money grubbing.....idiots......

lawnman_scott
03-09-2007, 01:13 PM
It is actually a power shift from the gov. back to the people. The fact that people have no self control when it comes to spending is not the issue, that is their problem, it is not mine or the government's. The fair tax allows taxes to be collected from everyone without issue. Prostitutes, drug dealers, illegals.....they all buy things. thereforeit will also finally spread the cost over everyone..... not just compliant tax payers.

As far as government waste....I agree, what is your solution? Americans seem to love to keep re-electing the same power hungry, money grubbing.....idiots......Ok I will try to not ramble. Past candidates:Bush (conservatives), clinton (liberals), Buchannan (religious right), Forbes (people who want someone who can run a business and control costs). Best one? Forbes by far, but it will never happen, people have the mindset we need a polotician, and if he would get support the rel. right would screw up everything.

But back to the tax. Food and meds and those things arent taxed under the system, or you get a rebate im not sure. So the things prostitutes buy arent taxed. And its only new things, even with real estate. So a drug dealer now has to hide his cash. Well with no income tax, and no filings to hold against him he can go out and buy a house for $150,000 cash, and keep it till he is ready to sell and sell for $300,000 with no cap gains. How again does this hurt him?

And you talk about people not controling their spending. Some people dont have a choice. They dont make alot and spend all they get just to get by. Not asking for a handout, just a lower tax rate than Tiger Woods or Dale Earnhard JR. Isnt that fair?

Equipment, trucks, parts, fert, roundup, gas, gas, gas, oil, more gas, shop rags and paper towels, ............... will all be taxed at 24%, and you think we will be lowering prices by 24%. Poor sean will have to start a "getting out of the business" section.

Finally, you think this will never go up? 24,25,28.......

PhillyShells
03-09-2007, 10:34 PM
Taxes ?? We Dont Need No Stinkin Taxes .......

LawnScapers of Dayton
03-10-2007, 06:11 AM
Everything you discribe is addressed in the the Fair Tax book... Believe me the people who developed this idea are much smarter than you and me.... They thought of all the issues and have solutions for them. You have to understand the facts before you attack the plan. Your comment about the cost of us running our business proves you don't understand how the fair tax works. It is not a flat tax, it's better...

The fact that Dale and Tiger spend far more than the "working poor" would mean they are paying far more tax. The "pre-bate" check everyone gets every month would mean those same working poor actually pay nothing in tax...read the book.....

lawnman_scott
03-10-2007, 09:36 AM
Everything you discribe is addressed in the the Fair Tax book... Believe me the people who developed this idea are much smarter than you and me.... They thought of all the issues and have solutions for them. You have to understand the facts before you attack the plan. Your comment about the cost of us running our business proves you don't understand how the fair tax works. It is not a flat tax, it's better...

The fact that Dale and Tiger spend far more than the "working poor" would mean they are paying far more tax. The "pre-bate" check everyone gets every month would mean those same working poor actually pay nothing in tax...read the book.....I didnt question how much dale and tiger would pay in taxes. I questioned their tax rate. It says the prebate check will be $492 for a married couple with 2 kids. I have run the numbers, and this tax will kill me.

It also doesnt address the hidden state and federal excise taxes on gasoline, taxes on tobaccco, or taxes on airline tickets.

Also If you go to page 84, why dont the numbers add up? The tax rate is 30%, not 23%. I debated, well at least tried at the site where the old crabasses went a while back, but they wont debate till I get the book. I am not too much for reading a book, but I am going to get it on my ipod so dont go anywhere. I will either disagree on everything, or agree. I just dont see it as an awnser. I also disagree that the people who came up with theis are smarter than you and me. We actually run a business in the real world.

Im married no kids, so my rebate will be less than $492. Maybe $300?
Dogs medication & vet $500
Gas $1000
Food & drink $800
Ciggarettes $200
phone bill (with y/b add cost) $700
Power bill $250
Water bill $100
Cell phones $150

Those are a rough guess, my wife pays the bills, I just make the moeny
Right there I will be paying about $7200 a year after the rebate, and that is a small list of what we spend. I guess we could "CHOOSE" to spend less on gas, food, phone, water, kill the dog.........

ccash
03-10-2007, 09:40 AM
I suggest anybody that has not read the fair tax book to do so. the fair tax is also nown as a consumption tax. HR. 25

ccash
03-10-2007, 09:43 AM
The FairTax offers long-needed tax relief – in the form of lower prices, nearly nonexistent compliance costs, and the ability to choose how much to spend in taxes – to all Americans, while eliminating the income tax and allowing Americans to keep 100 percent of their paycheck. The FairTax will dramatically reduce prices, protect and ensure funding of Social Security and Medicare, empower the low-income earners, and put choice and control back into the hands of every American. All the crucial elements are in place: a public that is eager and ready for a fairer tax system, and a Congress willing to seriously consider genuine tax reform. To be competitive in the next century and to renew the American dream, we must change the way we fund our national government.

lawnman_scott
03-10-2007, 11:07 AM
The FairTax offers long-needed tax relief – in the form of lower prices, nearly nonexistent compliance costs, and the ability to choose how much to spend in taxes – to all Americans, while eliminating the income tax and allowing Americans to keep 100 percent of their paycheck. The FairTax will dramatically reduce prices, protect and ensure funding of Social Security and Medicare, empower the low-income earners, and put choice and control back into the hands of every American. All the crucial elements are in place: a public that is eager and ready for a fairer tax system, and a Congress willing to seriously consider genuine tax reform. To be competitive in the next century and to renew the American dream, we must change the way we fund our national government.Looks like you read and pasted something here. So whos taxes go up under the new system? And how can I choose not to be taxed on gas, food, and parts for equipment? If this passes, do we immediatly cut our rates by 24%, or does that happen when everyone gets laid off from thier jobs and starts mowing lawns?

When I have an idea I take on everyones questions. Odd thing is, all anyone who advocates this can do is tell me to read the book. Give me a reason and I will. How do you stop a drug dealer from buying used property in FL and laundring it that way? He cant even get caught via state income tax forms because we dont have one.

lawnman_scott
03-10-2007, 11:12 AM
I didnt question how much dale and tiger would pay in taxes. I questioned their tax rate. It says the prebate check will be $492 for a married couple with 2 kids. I have run the numbers, and this tax will kill me.

It also doesnt address the hidden state and federal excise taxes on gasoline, taxes on tobaccco, or taxes on airline tickets.

Also If you go to page 84, why dont the numbers add up? The tax rate is 30%, not 23%. I debated, well at least tried at the site where the old crabasses went a while back, but they wont debate till I get the book. I am not too much for reading a book, but I am going to get it on my ipod so dont go anywhere. I will either disagree on everything, or agree. I just dont see it as an awnser. I also disagree that the people who came up with theis are smarter than you and me. We actually run a business in the real world.

Im married no kids, so my rebate will be less than $492. Maybe $300?
Dogs medication & vet $500
Gas $1000
Food & drink $800
Ciggarettes $200
phone bill (with y/b add cost) $700
Power bill $250
Water bill $100
Cell phones $150

Those are a rough guess, my wife pays the bills, I just make the moeny
Right there I will be paying about $7200 a year after the rebate, and that is a small list of what we spend. I guess we could "CHOOSE" to spend less on gas, food, phone, water, kill the dog.........Damn, I forget about state taxes. Those will still exist along with local taxes. So we will have property taxes, state sales tax.......... And now we wont even get a deduction on our income tax because we were suckered into this new system of screwing the middle class. The poor come out good, the rich come out good, but the middle class gets hammered. Sad thing is that some of us actually are asking for it???????

LawnScapers of Dayton
03-10-2007, 12:12 PM
the tax is not 30%......if you pay $100 for a pan right now, that includes $23 of inbeded tax the company that made and sells the pan has passed on to you..... after the Fair tax the price of the pan drops $23.....then $23 is added on as the fair tax......that is 23% of what you pay.......the $100......it is inclusionary.......not exclusionary which gives you the false 30% rate...

this system will force the states to follow suit and also adopt a fair tax system....

The $492 is per month.....

Read the book....

LawnScapers of Dayton
03-10-2007, 12:18 PM
Damn, I forget about state taxes. Those will still exist along with local taxes. So we will have property taxes, state sales tax.......... And now we wont even get a deduction on our income tax because we were suckered into this new system of screwing the middle class. The poor come out good, the rich come out good, but the middle class gets hammered. Sad thing is that some of us actually are asking for it???????

you really need to stop until you understand the program.....

LawnScapers of Dayton
03-10-2007, 12:22 PM
http://www.fairtax.org/PDF/PlainEnglishSummary_TheFairTaxActof2005.pdf

read the first page....

self-employement taxes are also gone.....

lawnman_scott
03-10-2007, 02:02 PM
the tax is not 30%......if you pay $100 for a pan right now, that includes $23 of inbeded tax the company that made and sells the pan has passed on to you..... after the Fair tax the price of the pan drops $23.....then $23 is added on as the fair tax......that is 23% of what you pay.......the $100......it is inclusionary.......not exclusionary which gives you the false 30% rate...

this system will force the states to follow suit and also adopt a fair tax system....

The $492 is per month.....

Read the book....read page 84, and I know the $492 is a month. So are my figures. I wont go donw on my prices unless forced to, and I dont think others will either, common sence.

ccash
03-10-2007, 02:42 PM
or try reading the bill HR 25.

LawnScapers of Dayton
03-10-2007, 03:18 PM
If can bring home the same money while lowering my prices...your darn skippy I will.........do as you please...... if you are such a great business man the facts would be pretty apparent rather quickly...

.... when your prices will be way higher then everyone elses, you will be forced to come down or starve......pretty simple really...... I love the free market......

D

DBL
03-10-2007, 05:35 PM
i thought he said texas first but i hate taxes too and for that matter the irs and their audits and they just suck

mattfromNY
03-10-2007, 05:57 PM
Win if you can, Lose if you must, but ALWAYS CHEAT!!!
I dont live by this motto, but man, at some point the government has to be held accountable for poor spending!! I just cant justify dumping mass quantities of hard earned money in some corrupt lawmakers FATA$$ pockets!!!!!
Case in point: Recently I had to go to court for a traffic ticket, I was there early (Had I not been, I would have been in trouble), but the judge was 45 minutes late to a courtroom full of people (most I'm sure took time off of work), including 8 police officers and the full court staff all standing around looking at their watches knowing full well they were getting paid to just stand around!! My blood was boiling. Who holds these people accountable for being late and wasting yours and my tax dollars?????????

Tim Wright
03-10-2007, 06:07 PM
I am all for another Boston Tea Party, but make it a 50 state tea party.

Tim

lawnman_scott
03-10-2007, 11:25 PM
If can bring home the same money while lowering my prices...your darn skippy I will.........do as you please...... if you are such a great business man the facts would be pretty apparent rather quickly...

.... when your prices will be way higher then everyone elses, you will be forced to come down or starve......pretty simple really...... I love the free market......

DI never said I was such a great businessman, just have common sence. You cant even figure out where you can place a flyer, or if you have to charge sales tax. I just know we need to control government spending, but talking to you about that is like talking to a wall because your part of the problem. I know since 9-11 we as americans are supposed to bow down and kiss the feet of the mighty fireman, but its just another cost that could be controlled.

LawnScapers of Dayton
03-11-2007, 09:16 AM
I never said I was such a great businessman, just have common sence. You cant even figure out where you can place a flyer, or if you have to charge sales tax. I just know we need to control government spending, but talking to you about that is like talking to a wall because your part of the problem. I know since 9-11 we as americans are supposed to bow down and kiss the feet of the mighty fireman, but its just another cost that could be controlled.

I don't know where that came from since I have been "COLLECTING" not charging sales tax for years, and I don't use flyers to advertise. Maybe from early posts when I was trying to use this site to learn something.......crazy, I know.......

I agree we need to control government spending but again, until voters stop re-electing the same politicians it will not change. Finally I never brought up the fact that I am a firefighter in this conversation so I really don't see how that is relevent to the topic...... Go ahead and fight to cut funding for your fire and rescue service I really don't care. You will only hurt yourself and your neighbors. Then you will probably be the first to complain when you need them.

Back to the topic of this thread...

Everytime I come across someone who wants to argue about the fair tax it comes down to that they are changing the terms of the Bill to base their problems with it or they have not taken the time to really understand it. Why would you be against a new system that puts the amount of tax you pay directly in your own lap..? No tax system will be perfect.....but the current one is possibly the worst.....

nobagger
03-11-2007, 10:39 AM
Just wanted to tell someone...

We got lucky! with the right-offs we owed very little this year. Next year we will have to be very carefull and bank some cusion.

lawnman_scott
03-11-2007, 01:28 PM
Everytime I come across someone who wants to argue about the fair tax it comes down to that they are changing the terms of the Bill to base their problems with it or they have not taken the time to really understand it. Why would you be against a new system that puts the amount of tax you pay directly in your own lap..? No tax system will be perfect.....but the current one is possibly the worst.....I didnt change any terms of anything. I brought up a few great examples. I would just call them examples, but they must be great because all I can get for awnsers is read the book, read the book.........

If you have a job that pays $75,000 you spend alot of that to live, and paying a high sales tax and not being able to use things like intrest, property tax as a deduction will hurt. But if you have a small business that makes you $75,000 you probably bring in $150,000-$225,000. The sales tax will kill you.

How is the amount you pay directly in your lap? There are things you need to survive, and being a small business there is more. Why is the current tax system so bad? Taxes suck, but spending is the problem. I took the time to understand the system in 92, and my thoughts havent changed. How much will it save you a year? You must have ran the numbers.

But the bigger question is, how can we make tomatoes last longer. Read the link.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2007/0309/p02s01-uspo.html

tinman
04-11-2007, 10:53 PM
help enact the Fair Tax......

Tax is theft so it can not be "fair". Even if the group of armed thugs known as the Govt, allowed this new tax system to be used, it does not guarantee that the income tax would be done away with forever. In a radio interview, a main figure leading the fair tax organization, stated that a trial period of 7 years (if I remember right) would be used and after that it was POSSIBLE that the income tax would be reinstated. So if that happened how likely would it be that we would have 2 terrible tax systems forced on us? And lets say the govt decides they need more money because of .....take your pick...new terrorism, global warming, a pandemic . They wouldn't just add the income tax on top of the fair tax would they?

No offense to your idea which is gaining popularity, but taxes really irritate me also.

tinman
04-11-2007, 11:17 PM
I am all for another Boston Tea Party, but make it a 50 state tea party.

Tim

That would take courage Tim. Something Americans (including me) are sorely lacking when it comes to standing up to "our" govt. By paying all these taxes we are saying it is ok for idiot politicians to spend wildly. We pay around 50 - 60% in taxes when u count everything. Doesn't that make us half a slave?. Proof that we are indeed half slaves.... People are begging the govt to "fair tax" us at a rate of 23 - 30 %. I guess a movement to reduce taxes way down to a tolerable rate (10% maybe) would just be too much to ask.

LawnScapers of Dayton
04-12-2007, 06:14 AM
Tax is theft so it can not be "fair". Even if the group of armed thugs known as the Govt, allowed this new tax system to be used, it does not guarantee that the income tax would be done away with forever. In a radio interview, a main figure leading the fair tax organization, stated that a trial period of 7 years (if I remember right) would be used and after that it was POSSIBLE that the income tax would be reinstated. So if that happened how likely would it be that we would have 2 terrible tax systems forced on us? And lets say the govt decides they need more money because of .....take your pick...new terrorism, global warming, a pandemic . They wouldn't just add the income tax on top of the fair tax would they?

No offense to your idea which is gaining popularity, but taxes really irritate me also.

Well it's not my idea.......and there are no 100% assurances in life accept death. A plan that lets me take home my entire paycheck is better than what we have now...... Bottom line is you decide to pay taxes when you buy something, otherwise you don't pay any..... I don't really think that sitting around complaining about the current tax system is going to improve things. Find a better idea for change, make sure you understand it and get behind it.....

Do you really think that a plan that taxes the poor at the same rate as the wealthy is gonna fly with the libs??? Answer: never.... the fair tax basically keeps the poor from paying any tax....while the wealthy who spend a lot more pay a lot more tax....

D

topsites
04-12-2007, 10:56 AM
Equipment, trucks, parts, fert, roundup, gas, gas, gas, oil, more gas, shop rags and paper towels, ............... will all be taxed at 24%, and you think we will be lowering prices by 24%. Poor sean will have to start a "getting out of the business" section.

Finally, you think this will never go up? 24,25,28.......

Pardon me, but isn't the problem tax collection in the first place?
Because even with a simple sales tax businesses first have to collect it, then pay it (as in, send it in), and why am I so sure there will always be those who never pay...? That is the problem, looked to me like Fairtax.org plainly stated that with their grand scheme each individual would be responsible for paying (translation: pay you should, what you can afford = the IRS won't see a dime LOL).
Oh yeah, just pay us what you can, whatever, whenever, ok?
Ohhhh I get it SURE hell yeah I want a tax like that!

Everyone complains about the huge amount of taxes, and the complications.
How is 24% not a huge tax?

Oh, compared to 50% it sure is, but then under the current system some of us are at 30% of (income - expenses), and 24 of all income and expenses sure is a LOT more than my bracket... Now does sales tax include services and products, what about trades or plain cash transactions (go to the bank to cash a $100 check and get $76 back, how does that work again?)...
Oh ok, just 24% on everything, yeah, I get it, coming and going 24% here 24% there, everytime you touch that dollar another quarter is gone (no wait, there's a 1% discount, you get a penny back). Touch four dollars and the first dollar is gone, that how it works? Touch four dollars four times, it's all but gone.

Or, can we just pay whatever we feel like?

And how is tracking and filing this supposedly simple tax not complicated?
I agree it's just a switch and a shift, nothing gained and nothing lost, but I guarantee the fun has not yet begun.

But yes I hate taxes, too.

topsites
04-12-2007, 11:16 AM
Truth be known, thou, that's what started the whole mess many years ago, is when our forefathers agreed we should pay A tax!
Yup, when everyone said yes we agree there should be just one tax, you see where this went in short order?

So even if we go with this fairtax system, rest assured it won't stay that way for long.

According to fairtax, it would:
Abolishes the IRS
> Millions of unemployed immediately, but wait, who is processing the paperwork?
Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation
> Riiiight, not for long, give it 90 days at the most, matter of fact, the first loophole will have been found days before the tax is actually released or enacted, and for the fair part it sounds like anything goes is fair.
Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding
> Ahhh didn't they just say it was only supposed to be one tax? *&%^ here we go again already!
Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy
> LOL
Allows American products to compete fairly
> They already do.
Reimburses the tax on purchases of basic necessities
> What? You mean complications, right? Yeah, refunds = deductions = simple no more.
Enables retirees to keep their entire pension
> Oh goodie.
Enables workers to keep their entire paycheck
> Yup, until they go buy something.
>> Oh, only what you spend = more Bee Ess!

So, if I save it, no tax? What about bank interest on my savings?
Ahhhh so if I put it in my pocket, then it's not taxed.
> Hmmmm, that don't sound much different from the way things are now, but I could be wrong.