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High Performance Lighting
03-11-2007, 03:33 PM
what type, wattage and beamspread to light this approximately 70' high by
50' wide Oak tree

Pro-Scapes
03-11-2007, 08:47 PM
in the title you as for how many lamps... in the post you ask type wattages and beam spreads...
I got a good idea but a bit worried at sounding stupid. looks a bit hot to me in the photo.

seolatlanta
03-11-2007, 09:12 PM
Ok, I'll give it a shot-

I am going to say 5 total with a mixture of 35-50 watt lamps.

High Performance Lighting
03-11-2007, 09:30 PM
in the title you as for how many lamps... in the post you ask type wattages and beam spreads...
I got a good idea but a bit worried at sounding stupid. looks a bit hot to me in the photo.

The original photo I posted looks good on my desktop However when i view it from my laptop on this website it does look hot. Here is the same photo with a bit shorter exposure time.

SamIV
03-12-2007, 01:32 AM
As Billy states it looks pretty hot, and I'm not saying that this scenario is detrimental in design. Don't misconstrue this statement in any form as negative. From the 4 foot fence to the left, the tree looks to me to to be maybe 25 wide by 40 high. If all the fixtures are 12 volt and mounted on or in the ground, 3 narrow beam 50 watt lamps, maybe 4. If the photo was over exposed and not true light levels, as all of the smaller trees look pretty hot also, the lamps are probably 35 watt. Don't be afraid to chime in and make a mistake people, he has been at this a lot longer than we have. Most of us still have a lot to learn.

SamIV
Accent Outdoor Lighting

jlouki01
03-12-2007, 01:36 AM
My guess is 4 50 watt fixtures.

bumper
03-12-2007, 01:50 AM
two 50 watt one in front and one back

High Performance Lighting
03-12-2007, 02:18 AM
As Billy states it looks pretty hot, and I'm not saying that this scenario is detrimental in design. Don't misconstrue this statement in any form as negative. From the 4 foot fence to the left, the tree looks to me to to be maybe 25 wide by 40 high. If all the fixtures are 12 volt and mounted on or in the ground, 3 narrow beam 50 watt lamps, maybe 4. If the photo was over exposed and not true light levels, as all of the smaller trees look pretty hot also, the lamps are probably 35 watt. Don't be afraid to chime in and make a mistake people, he has been at this a lot longer than we have. Most of us still have a lot to learn.

SamIV
Accent Outdoor Lighting

The photo was taken the other night along with the other two I posted in another thread of the 6 yr old project. There are no leaves on the tree right now.
The wrought iron fence is 6 feet high. the backyard is on a downslope and the picture was taken from the pool deck which is about 12-15 feet higher than where the trunk of the tree meets the ground. Perhaps it does not look like it in the photos but it is a gigantic probably 100 plus yr old oak and my guesstimation of it's size in my original post is pretty close. So far no one has come close to the correct answer. This is just for fun of course. I'm talking about the lights on the Oak only, not the surrounding plant material.

High Performance Lighting
03-12-2007, 02:40 AM
in the title you as for how many lamps... in the post you ask type wattages and beam spreads...
I got a good idea but a bit worried at sounding stupid. looks a bit hot to me in the photo.

this client has a great set of Juggs

cgland
03-12-2007, 09:02 AM
1 50w w/ a 60 degree spread?

chris

Pro-Scapes
03-12-2007, 11:00 AM
gonna say that downlight is 35w 60 degree. perhaps 20w. since its on a downward slope if you got one light at the base and the rest on the hillside shining u at the tree I would think wider angle bulbs but from the photos looks like you got alot of punch on it.

The uplights on the oaks Im willing to say 4-5 lights @ 50w 24 degree ish.

Hard to tell if you got some smaller ones in the crotch behind the main trunk too. In any case... well done:waving:

Pro-Scapes
03-12-2007, 11:02 AM
gonna say that downlight is 35w 60 degree. perhaps 20w. since its on a downward slope if you got one light at the base and the rest on the hillside shining u at the tree I would think wider angle bulbs but from the photos looks like you got alot of punch on it.

The uplights on the oaks Im willing to say 4-5 lights @ 50w 24 degree ish.

Hard to tell if you got some smaller ones in the crotch behind the main trunk too. In any case... well done:waving:

While we are on the subject of trees that reminds me I eed to get some pics of what some local electrician is going... He is placing HID and other lights as far up as possible in pine trees. While the effects on the ground look very nice for moonlighting I would have to say the hot spot in the peak of the tree that can be seen for blocks around kills it. Will try and get ome pics but its hard with all the mercury vapors on the streets.

NightScenes
03-12-2007, 03:01 PM
I've got about a minute so I'll play along. We really have no depth perception on this one photo but it appears that you are using 2-35 watt MR lamps for this tree. One is coming from the right side of the photo and the other is in front. Different cameras and different exposures will make the lighting appear to be much more intense than it actually is.

This one has two uplights (which can be seen) that are 35 watt 60s. We also have 3 down lights using 20 watt lamps and 60 degree beams.

High Performance Lighting
03-12-2007, 10:26 PM
Thanks for playing along. Billy has come the closest. The long shot of the Oak and the one with the Juggs were from different projects. The Oak in the first photo has 7-35 watt FMW lamps (wellights) crossing beams and strategically placed under the canopy. The Juggs photo. There is a 20 watt ESX mounted in the tree downlight spotting the nice Juggs. Two 35 w FMW's mounted behind the Juggs crosslighting the trunk and Billy was correct there are 3 lights behind the trunk attached to the tree firing into the branches and foliage behind the trunk and 5 more tree mounts in the first crotch picking up the branches and leaves on the upper front side of the tree and then there are 2 more 35watt FMw's ground mounted on risers on a down slope outside the canopy and 2 more mounted on the fascia of the garage to wash the exterior foliage which is viewed from the street. There was no possibility of ground mounting (except behind the Juggs) in front of tree under the canopy as you can see the tile patio goes right up to the trunk. This kid Billy is wise beyond his experience. I see a bright future in outdoor lighting for this young man.

Pro-Scapes
03-13-2007, 08:46 AM
Thanks for playing along. Billy has come the closest. The long shot of the Oak and the one with the Juggs were from different projects. The Oak in the first photo has 7-35 watt FMW lamps (wellights) crossing beams and strategically placed under the canopy. The Juggs photo. There is a 20 watt ESX mounted in the tree downlight spotting the nice Juggs. Two 35 w FMW's mounted behind the Juggs crosslighting the trunk and Billy was correct there are 3 lights behind the trunk attached to the tree firing into the branches and foliage behind the trunk and 5 more tree mounts in the first crotch picking up the branches and leaves on the upper front side of the tree and then there are 2 more 35watt FMw's ground mounted on risers on a down slope outside the canopy and 2 more mounted on the fascia of the garage to wash the exterior foliage which is viewed from the street. There was no possibility of ground mounting (except behind the Juggs) in front of tree under the canopy as you can see the tile patio goes right up to the trunk. This kid Billy is wise beyond his experience. I see a bright future in outdoor lighting for this young man.

wow what do i win ?

Pro-Scapes
03-14-2007, 02:30 PM
one more look at the juggs photo... You can clearly see a mortared line in the tile patio... was this from just patching a cracked area or was this from you ? You said 2 lights behind the jugs is that how you got there ?

Eden Lights
03-14-2007, 05:47 PM
4-5 on the ground 35-50watt floods if non-IR, if using IR lamps could be done with 35-37 watts and add at least a couple in the tree with 20 watts each all in floods or all on the ground using narrow floods to keep light level high at the upper branches. The photos brightness my be throwing us off a little. I would start with 4 on the ground IR 20W Floods or IR 35W VW Floods with 2-3 in the tree some where around the 25-30 foot area in 20W Floods.

Eden Lights
03-14-2007, 05:51 PM
I will try to give you guys a much much easier one?

Team-Green L&L
03-14-2007, 06:10 PM
I'm going for (1) 60 watt as well, but I can see (2) 50 watt light in the last pic. Am I missing something?

Eden Lights
03-14-2007, 06:24 PM
Sorry, I missed that the plan was already given. It was fun playing along any way.

Pro-Scapes
03-14-2007, 08:08 PM
Eden you can plainly see your lights in the picture. Apears to be 3 lamps to me. Looks like spots in the grass too thats a no no to me as it wouldnt last here.

3 babs would light that tree up but again your pic looks a bit hot so im thinking you got something else.

If I were to light that tree and no place like a larger tree or home to use a downlight I might of chosen 3 well lights triangulated around that tree. Perhaps a Par lamp even tho I dont have much experience with them.

Eden Lights
03-14-2007, 08:19 PM
We do not spec nor install par lamps and I agree on stakes in turf, final install was with ingrade fixtures.

Eden Lights
03-14-2007, 08:34 PM
The term BAB is no longer much of a standard as much as it once was. The low CP Ushio BAB60 comes in at a low 270CP with the Hot Osram IR BAB40 hitting 1000CP.

High Performance Lighting
03-14-2007, 09:39 PM
one more look at the juggs photo... You can clearly see a mortared line in the tile patio... was this from just patching a cracked area or was this from you ? You said 2 lights behind the jugs is that how you got there ?


No sir, my access was from behind the tree where there is a short Garden wall and open ground

High Performance Lighting
03-14-2007, 10:14 PM
I will try to give you guys a much much easier one?


Eden that's good coverage on that japanese maple. Excellent light level and color for the deciduous season. I'm gonna say 2 -35 watt FMW uplights and 1 20 watt ESX directly overhead downlight

seolatlanta
03-14-2007, 10:48 PM
Hey Eden

Why no PAR lamps?

IMHO the par 36 is absolutely a must have especially here in Georgia-the light quality is great as well as lamp life.

Eden Lights
03-14-2007, 11:37 PM
Hey Eden

Why no PAR lamps?

IMHO the par 36 is absolutely a must have especially here in Georgia-the light quality is great as well as lamp life.

Oh where do I start?

Cons:

*Debris Collectors
*Limited Quality Lamp Manufacturers (GE is the only one I have had luck with in smoothness and lamp life)
*Expensive
*No quality halogen low wattages and few beam spreads. (20W) I have had no luck with them, but the Hadco OEM one is my favorite.
*I associate Pars with well lights that have poor lamp holders, poor aiming lockdowns, and almost never hold their position during frost heave.
*Big & Ugly
*Catch Fire
*Poor Lamp Shielding
*Limited new technology for the platform
*Did I say they catch fire!!!!


Pros:

*Smooth Lamp Output
*Cheap Fixtures

Mike & Lucia
03-15-2007, 12:01 AM
Eden Lites -

I'm figuring the tree only requires 20 watt MR-16s. The three fixtures give you good coverage for about a 200 degree veiwing angle. I'll guess medium spread, 36 - 40 degree depending on lamp manufacturer.
The key in tying this beauty together is the minature downlight in the top of the specimen's canopy. It could be an MR-8, but my best guess is an MR-11 - 20 watt, medium spread.
So.... what's the scoop?

Mike

NightScenes
03-15-2007, 12:06 AM
Oh where do I start?

Cons:

*Debris Collectors
*Limited Quality Lamp Manufacturers (GE is the only one I have had luck with in smoothness and lamp life)
*Expensive
*No quality halogen low wattages and few beam spreads. (20W) I have had no luck with them, but the Hadco OEM one is my favorite.
*I associate Pars with well lights that have poor lamp holders, poor aiming lockdowns, and almost never hold their position during frost heave.
*Big & Ugly
*Catch Fire
*Poor Lamp Shielding
*Limited new technology for the platform
*Did I say they catch fire!!!!


Pros:

*Smooth Lamp Output
*Cheap Fixtures

BINGO! That's a few of the reasons I don't use pars either.

Pro-Scapes
03-15-2007, 12:42 AM
Eden Lites -

I'm figuring the tree only requires 20 watt MR-16s. The three fixtures give you good coverage for about a 200 degree veiwing angle. I'll guess medium spread, 36 - 40 degree depending on lamp manufacturer.
The key in tying this beauty together is the minature downlight in the top of the specimen's canopy. It could be an MR-8, but my best guess is an MR-11 - 20 watt, medium spread.
So.... what's the scoop?

Mike

I think your right... isnt there a blue green light in the top of that tree Hard to see but might be there. Still not how i would of done it but it looks great in my opinion as long as the spots were not left in the lawn

Eden Lights
03-15-2007, 12:47 AM
I will try to give you guys a much much easier one?

This a large Bloodgood Maple

There is 4 uplights and 1 downlight
3-MR16 Ingrade fixture in the locations that can be easily seen.
1-MR16 Stake mounted fixture directly behind the trunk that creates a complete three dimensional canopy.
1-Pendant hung MR16 that can be seen tying it all to the ground and creating the dramatic shadows on the turf and bed area.

All Lamps are Sylvania Tru-Aim Titans in 20W 60 degree BAB's that come in at about 350CP.

High Performance Lighting
03-15-2007, 01:16 AM
This a large Bloodgood Maple

There is 4 uplights and 1 downlight
3-MR16 Ingrade fixture in the locations that can be easily seen.
1-MR16 Stake mounted fixture directly behind the trunk that creates a complete three dimensional canopy.
1-Pendant hung MR16 that can be seen tying it all to the ground and creating the dramatic shadows on the turf and bed area.

All Lamps are Sylvania Tru-Aim Titans in 20W 60 degree BAB's that come in at about 350CP.

the one directly behind the trunk could not have even been guessed since we are only looking at one side of the tree. How did you shield its glare from the camera? Did you take it at such an angle that the trunk blocked it? regarding the hanging pendant. It's got to be suspended slightly above the maple and just out of view of the camera to have that tight of a spread with a 60 degree lamp. Are you sure that's a 60 degree? Looks too tight but if you say so. Anyway great shot. I see you are a Tru-aim Titan fan too. Did you hear that Osram/sylvania was going to supply covered glass lenses on all lamps for no upcharge?

Eden Lights
03-15-2007, 01:58 AM
the one directly behind the trunk could not have even been guessed since we are only looking at one side of the tree. How did you shield its glare from the camera? Did you take it at such an angle that the trunk blocked it? regarding the hanging pendant. It's got to be suspended slightly above the maple and just out of view of the camera to have that tight of a spread with a 60 degree lamp. Are you sure that's a 60 degree? Looks too tight but if you say so. Anyway great shot. I see you are a Tru-aim Titan fan too. Did you hear that Osram/sylvania was going to supply covered glass lenses on all lamps for no upcharge?

I try to take all my pictures of my work from the clients viewing angles without ever adding shielding or artificial light. This always provides a excellent opportunity to review and edit your work from almost a second set of eyes.

The pendant is hung low and is a Hadco DRL1 which provides a little tightening of the photometric circle on the ground due to it's deep recess.

Thanks for the comments

I did hear about the move to cover glass only, but it scared me a little at first. I placed a order with my lamp supplier and got a return call that the lamps were obsolete. I quickly called my rep. and he got it all cleared up for me with the new part numbers with the cover glass.

yardlites
03-15-2007, 09:47 AM
The 3 fixtures on the front of the tree are ingrade fixtures. Wondering which mr16 ingrade you were able to get that approx 45 degree angle. Looks great.

High Performance Lighting
03-16-2007, 10:02 PM
wow what do i win ?



Billy, e-mail me your mailing address (you have my e-mail address).
I'll send you an authentic 2007 Gambino High performance landscape lighting Calendar for your efforts.

Pro-Scapes
03-18-2007, 01:09 AM
sent.... make sure I get yours and I will get a t shirt out to you if you let me know what size.

High Performance Lighting
03-18-2007, 04:11 PM
sent.... make sure I get yours and I will get a t shirt out to you if you let me know what size.


Billy I haven't received your e-mail. Can you check to make sure you have the correct address and re-send. I don't want to post my e-mail address here . I get enough spam already.

Thanks,
Mike G

High Performance Lighting
03-18-2007, 04:14 PM
This one should be relatively easy. How many fixtures and what type lamp/ beam spread

Pro-Scapes
03-18-2007, 08:11 PM
Mike I will try again. Feel free to hit me thru my website listed below. Perhaps your spam filter maybe blocking me ?