Operator Wages

[dozerman21]

I need a little help or advice on how much to pay an operator. I'm going to be hiring my first full time employee sometime soon, and I don't really know what a fair pay scale is. My operator would be mostly running my CTL, and then work up to a dozer backfilling and grading yards. I'm not sure if I should try to find someone already with skills, or if I should try to train someone. It's always a challenge to find a reliable operator with their head on straight, that's why I haven't hired anyone full time yet. I know many or most of you have an employee(s), so maybe you could shed some light. Here's what I'm looking into:

-Hourly wage for a good skilled operator?
-Hourly wage to train someone?
-Do you give any vacation time?
-Do you have any paid holidays?
-Do you provide health insurance?
-Do you give a certain number of guarenteed hours?

These are my biggest questions. I know different areas of the country have different pay scales. I'm mostly concerned about what to pay starting out. The other benefits I might consider down the road if they work out. Any suggestions you have are appreciated!:drinkup:

[Gravel Rat]

A good skilled operator non union wage is upto 30 dollars per hour

Depends on how much training needed if the guy has never seen a excavator before then that depends.

Vacation time depends on if the operator wants to take vacation time but usually companies here let their guys go on holidays.

Unless you have a health plan then you can offer it to the employee if you don't they don't get a health plan.

No gauranteed hours for guys here but contractors try find make work projects for the guys. If its really slow they have to get laid off.

You biggest thing is workers compensation and the income tax stuff and putting the guy on the payroll.

If the guy is a union man don't hire him he will be expecting all the BS that goes along with the union employee. You treat your employees fairly you don't need union rules and regulations. Give the guys a lunch break and pay them overtime after 8 hours everything should be good.

[ksss]

I have been paying around 15 an hour for an operator with a CDL. I offer a health plan that usually costs the employee about a 100-150 a month. As far as hiring someone that can run equipment verse building one. Pros and cons both ways. The issue is keeping the person once you have trained them. The labor market is very tight here. Unemployment rate is around 3%. I plan on putting one key guy on salary for the year. I have passed on a job that was just under 200K due to unqualified help. I don't want to do that again. I writing another bid, this less complicated job for about 80K and this one I will not pass on. I guess in short I would also formulate a plan for keeping said employee as well as finding one. The last year has been very tough finding good help.

[mastercraft]

It kinda depends on what your looking for, someone older with experience, or younger looking to learn. You probably could'nt afford ( pay & benefits ) a really experienced operator, nor does it sound like you really need that at this point. In my area, Canton Ohio, you could hire a hard working young man away from a landscape crew, with skid or ctl experience, easily for 10$ an hour with no benefits or paid holidays at all. If he works out, then bump the pay up a bit and give him some perks. Remember, it's alot easier to be a good guy and raise peoples pay and benefits for a good job, than to take from or fire someone who is'nt really working out. Best of luck!

[dozerman21]

I'm leaning towards a younger guy that I could train, mostly because the more skilled guys want benefits and $20-$25 per hour, and I know several inexperienced guys who would like to work for me. My family has hired several experienced guys in the past, but most of them didn't work out because they thought they knew it all, and in most cases, another company had let them go. My biggest adjustment with hiring an inexperienced operator be having the patience to train someone. I need help mostly for bulk dirt pushing, so I'm hoping they will catch on to grading if I start them off that way. I think it will work out.

Like KSSS and mastercraft said, I was thinking of starting them out at $10 per hour while I'm training them (with no benefits), and if they work out, slowly bump them up to around $15-$17 per hour with a couple of bonuses, and I'd like to offer some kind of medical insurance plan that I could help with. I guess it all depends on if they stick around. I'd like to have one good operator that I could pay well and count on for a long time, to shorten my days and take on bigger jobs.

Thanks for the replies!:waving:

[fhdesign]

Don't take this the wrong way...
You get what you pay for, so I would try for an experienced operator, but if you can't find one that is very reliable it's not worth the extra cost.
Good luck, it's difficult either way, but also rewarding when you finally get that good employee.
Jon

[start2finish]

gravel rat, 30/per hour? not in this world. I need to move up to BC and work for someone else. operators are 10-12 un experienced and 14-16 experienced. how many in NC do you want add a dollar to the high mark and you will have to turn off your phone.

[AWJ Services]

Experienced equipment operators make 60K plus a year here in Atlanta.

My advice is too find someone young and who is willing too enter an Apprenticeship program and outline his advancement opportunities on paper too give him a reason too stay.It will be rough at first but the end result (with the right person) will be worth it.

[snoope]

dozerman,

I tend to lean towards "Training" someone..........That is how I started..way too many years ago..for a one man show expanding....hired as an experienced driver and quickly "Learned the ropes" on the "Yellow " stuff...To this day ..we are still friends and both still "Play in the dirt"......

One quick word of advice...do not "lowball" that wage too much...if either of you has a "Bad day" and they will come....EGOs can be hard to swallow over something silly........A "Good" laborer up here starts at $13, Drivers at $15 and operators at $17.....plus bene's and "perks".....The "Job" outline sounds like an excellent idea also....Gives you both "Marks' to hit...including incentives for the employee to work harder and efficiently while the "Boss" can go bid more profitable jobs comfortably knowing he can get them done....


Snoope back quiet

[Dirty Water]

Here the grunt in the trench makes $30 an hour + benefits if he is union.

Yes, I think its stupid too.

[Mjh Excavating]

same here in NY, lucky to get a laborer for $10 an hour "average" operator pay around here is in the $20's an hour

[Gravel Rat]

The guys that work in the forest industry make the 30 dollars per hour Canadian or 25 dollars US. A good excavator excavator working for a excavation contractor is going to be making 28 dollars per hour 24 dollars US. The more common wage is 20-25 per hour or 17-21 dollars US. A experienced labourer makes 20 dollars per hour 17 US and a basic labourer makes 15 dollars 13 dollars US.

You hire a labourer for 10 dollars per hour canadian your pretty much hiring a McDonalds burger flipper that doesn't know much. For my area minimum you will find a labourer for would be 12 dollars per hour 10.20 US per hour. At that price per hour don't expect much maybe good for mowing lawns and pulling weeds.

When I'am contracting on my own I make 20 dollars per hour labouring which is going rate for labour in this area. With our construction being busy you can't find a labourer to do general jobs. If I'am using my chainsaw its 25 dollars per hour.

The cost of living in B.C. is skyrocketing so people have to make more per hour or they will be living in a cardboard box. You get what you pay for if you pay low wages you get a low quality worker. Anything less than 15 dollars per hour 13 US you will get told stick it up your nose.

Its mainly all non union companies which most guys want.

[murray83]

My own opinion would be to see what the rates are around your area and forget what a guy in BC or NY or anywhere else gets.Your a smaller outfit so base your rates on that factor don't try to compete as it won't get you anywhere but loosing profit out of your pocket.

If a guy gets paid $15/hr to run a machine at a one man band operation in your area pay your operator similar,if a guy gets $20 at a large civil operation like where I work at forget those wages as the business they are running is structured to pay on those scales.

Remember a good labourer becomes a good operator,idiots become truck drivers :laugh:

[tallrick]

Actually I would think that any employee with the desire to learn could operate simple machinery like a CTL or dozer, the important thing is to find a quality employee. You can start him off low, and when he performs well, give raises. Even a relatively young, inexperienced person can perform sucessfully, as long as the job site isn't too demanding. It's very hard to find serious, hard workers but they still exist. I still remember my first time in a dozer, and figuring it out without any instruction other than where it was. The skid loader I figured out on my own as well. You may have to take some time to train, but finding the right person with potential is the key. The biggest complaint I hear from the owner of the business was about lazy workers taking too many breaks and getting drunk and not comming in the next day, except on pay day when everyone is there on time..LOL!

Where I was living I was still taking on those weekend jobs for a friend but he paid by the job, not the hour. Mostly land clearing and debris removal, with some demolition. Also did the repairs on equipment, paid by the job not by the hour. Made some good weekend cash that way, and it's the adult version of playing in the sandbox. He also complained about the lack of good operators.

[dozerman21]

tallrick- I think I know what you mean, but there's a lot more to operating a skid or dozer at a high level, than just being able to move some dirt around. It takes years to learn how to take an undeveloped lot and turn it into a finished yard, and do it in a short amount of time. Unfortunately, a lot of my work is production, so I can't afford to have someone running a machine and not saving me much time. I still think I can make it work if whoever I hire has the right attitude, and I start him off with the easier stuff (I.E.: Out in the wide open areas where he can't run into something!:) ).

There are basically two major things that guys have to learn when operating equipment. How to actually "run" the equipment at a high level, and how to recognize all the variables on the jobsite. There are so many things that you pick up over the years that you pretty much learn on your own. You can't really be taught many things, like how to get a feel for a machine. I'm sure everyone who's an operator knows what I'm talking about.:drinkup:

murrey83- I agree. I am going to use a pay scale that's current with my area. I know different parts of the country vary in pay.

One more question especially for the midwest guys, what do your employees do in the winter? Do you give any guarenteed hours? I work year round, but slow down to about 2-3 full days a week for about an 8-10 week span on an average winter.

[tallrick]

[QUOTE=dozerman21;1753632]tallrick- I think I know what you mean, but there's a lot more to operating a skid or dozer at a high level, than just being able to move some dirt around. It takes years to learn how to take an undeveloped lot and turn it into a finished yard, and do it in a short amount of time. Unfortunately, a lot of my work is production, so I can't afford to have someone running a machine and not saving me much time. I still think I can make it work if whoever I hire has the right attitude, and I start him off with the easier stuff (I.E.: Out in the wide open areas where he can't run into something!:) ).

There are basically two major things that guys have to learn when operating equipment. How to actually "run" the equipment at a high level, and how to recognize all the variables on the jobsite. There are so many things that you pick up over the years that you pretty much learn on your own. You can't really be taught many things, like how to get a feel for a machine. I'm sure everyone who's an operator knows what I'm talking about.:drinkup:

QUOTE]

I agree with this! This is why I wish that I actually had more jobs to practice on, every jobsite was a learning experience. Most of the work was construction cleanup, remove debris, bury rocks, clear brush, spread rock for driveways and sand for brick patios. As for machine feel, they are all different, and the controls on one dozer or loader may differ from another brand. Also when you're making repairs you can see the damage caused by improper operation. One thing I always noticed with dozers was unequal undercarriage wear, seems like most operators prefer a right turn. Also knowing how they work makes it easier to get the "feel". Definately different running a D5 then next time an RC-30. You would be amazed how much I am missing this!

[mastercraft]

It sounds like your are a "good" guy, and would like to do good by anyone you hire (guaranteed hours, etc.). I was once too. But I can tell you from hard bitter experience that paying people when there is'nt really anything for them to do is a sure fired way to put yourself out of business. Most people in the midwest realize that "operating" is a seasonal business, and that there will be a couple of lean months every year. It's not only the employee's wage that you have to consider, but also fica, workers comp, unemployment ins, both state & federal, as well as all the paperwork that these generate. I would just be upfront and honest with anyone you hire about the work load and potential slow periods.

[dozerman21]

mastercraft- You're exactly right. There is a lot of extra time with paperwork, along with insurance to deal with. All those things I know are added expenses too. I'm not planning on giving guarenteed hours in the winter. Most smaller companies around here don't. What I probably should have said was what do your employees do? Do they get a job somewhere else in the winter, or collect unemployment? Or, do they still work for you, but only a handful of hours each week?

tallrick- Yea, even with the same model machine, each one has it's own quirks and different feel to it. I try to grade the same amount each direction to save my undercarriage, but I probably do more grading from right to left, looking at my left side cutting edge.

[RockSet N' Grade]

Come winter here when we basically shut down, we spend some time fixing and repairing and there is always a spot of about 3-5 weeks when there is nothing. It's no surprise, its expected, and we call it vacation.......you never know when that time comes, but it always does when the work just dries up or its just too awful to work........Making it through the winter months is always a tough go....and it is not just the winter months money drain.......it's coming out of winter and budgeting so you have enough cash to generate work and wait for the first draw on your jobs. Finding a good guy to work with is just plain tough whether he be trainable or a veteran, but once you do find him, throw away all the rules and do what ever it takes to keep him!

[murray83]

What kind of equipment do you have? I'm not shure if you get any snow in your area you possibly could look into getting a few contracts for snow plowing locally.

I know its not right but most guys here pay under the table to their operators for the hours they work per storm,the reason why is once the frost sets in you give him or her a lay off till spring and they can collect unemployment over the time you lay them off (not shure what you call down in the states) if you were to pay them over the table if could affect their claim.

Another idea is if they do alot of sanding of lots in your area and you own a skid steer you could sweep parking lots and keep your operator busy for a few weeks before bringing them back for spring.

[dozerman21]

What kind of equipment do you have? I'm not shure if you get any snow in your area you possibly could look into getting a few contracts for snow plowing locally.

I know its not right but most guys here pay under the table to their operators for the hours they work per storm,the reason why is once the frost sets in you give him or her a lay off till spring and they can collect unemployment over the time you lay them off (not shure what you call down in the states) if you were to pay them over the table if could affect their claim.

Another idea is if they do alot of sanding of lots in your area and you own a skid steer you could sweep parking lots and keep your operator busy for a few weeks before bringing them back for spring.


I plow snow too. I use my pickup with a Boss V, and I have a buddy who I hire to use his pickup too. I'm looking into a box pusher for my CT332 for next season. If I have help, I'll probably let him plow with the truck if I get some more accounts.

[AWJ Services]

Finding a good guy to work with is just plain tough whether he be trainable or a veteran, but once you do find him, throw away all the rules and do what ever it takes to keep him!

I agree.


I'm not planning on giving guaranteed hours in the winter. Most smaller companies around here don't.

If you can find a way too make the operator a 12 month employee then it will give you the upper hand in attracting a quality operator.
Guaranteed hours would be a big plus.
If I were an employee I would expect too be paid weekly.
Remember what you think is fair and what they think is fair my not always be the same.

Your employee will need enough money too buy a house,raise a family,buy new vehicles,afford health insurance and have some sort of retirement.
In that perspective it is a daunting task too keep an employee for an extended period.
Most companies cannot financially afford this for whatever reason.
This however is what it will take too keep a good operator.

[tallrick]

Also I have never heard of someone who only operates equipment. Wouldn't the slow days be the time for maintenance, or those repairs you have been putting off? My buddy in the business had a regular operator, but on the weekends when his operator wanted to get time for his family, I didn't mind working as the back-up. Lucky for most businesses in south Florida, it's easy to find laborers who work for peanuts. So far I have not seen many good operators in lanscaping, they must all be in construction or something. You would be surprised how many operators here get only 10.00 an hour. Fortunately the mechanics I know make better than that.

[dozerman21]

Also I have never heard of someone who only operates equipment. Wouldn't the slow days be the time for maintenance, or those repairs you have been putting off? My buddy in the business had a regular operator, but on the weekends when his operator wanted to get time for his family, I didn't mind working as the back-up. Lucky for most businesses in south Florida, it's easy to find laborers who work for peanuts. So far I have not seen many good operators in lanscaping, they must all be in construction or something. You would be surprised how many operators here get only 10.00 an hour. Fortunately the mechanics I know make better than that.

Yep. That's actually another big reason why I want an employee. I'm too busy during the week, so I wind up doing my maintenence on the weekends, which gets old. I definetly have that in mind, and it's a good way to keep him busy on slower or rainy days too. I'd like to get a barn built sooner than later, and I could use him to help insulate it, run wire, etc... to stay busy. I'm going to try to start that in the fall of next year, so that could keep him busy in the winter months. Plus, there's always grass to cut, and weeds to trim too if the work gets a little dry. Ideally, I'd like to take on 50% more work then I have now, so we would both be busy, but I wouldn't have the 12-14 hour days all the time. Then, if work got a little slow, I could just send him out to keep busy,and I could bid jobs, or maybe even get a game of golf in!:drinkup:

[RockSet N' Grade]

Dozerman....that would be the dream, but my reality with my guy/guys ended up a bit different. We still work 12-14 every chance we get, I bid more and still work on my equipment on weekends although I get some help now, and everytime I send them to do something, it seems I have always got my hand in it too. Granted, having help is a huge blessing, but the days are just as long....I think that there is a point where you could be more hands off, but from what I have seen, it is when you have 4-6 guys and at least a couple crews outfitted with equipment......

[Fieldman12]

Yeah, I personally have not done it but I know friends that are in the construction business that work just as hard now with employees as they did before. Seems like the more you get the more you have to deal with. It's tough to find good operators and keep them employed just part of the year. The working on equipment thing would not be bad part of the year as long as you pay them as much as when they are running equipment which may or may not be difficult. It's tough to be a small company and compete. I have owned an internet business before and helped with the family gravel hauling business so I know some of the issues but not so much on the excavating side. I can relate on the ag side though which is simular to the excavating side.

[Fieldman12]

I know if I was every to get big in excavating which I doubt will ever happen, Im gonna get a big pulling tractor. IT will be JD or Case IH Super stock Diesel, Alky burner or Pro Stock Diesel. Well, we can all dream. :)