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View Full Version : An Open Letter of Apology and a big Thank You!


SprinklerGuy
03-22-2007, 08:36 PM
OK....first get the thank you out of the way...Thank you DanaMac for all your help the other day.....hard to believe it is the same a## that posts pissy things in the spring......now you've helped me in 2 of my businesses..THANKS!

Now the apology...

I was wr........um...wr.....um.....I must have been mista.....errr.....I think I made a mista......

I may not have said it outloud...or posted it on here..but I always thought you pipe pullers were crazy....I always wondered how it could be easier to pull pipe and dig all the holes to hook up saddles blah blah blah....

I was wrong.

Dana pulled my first system the other day.....FREAKIN AWESOME!

Other that him pulling it 2 feet deep....cutting 3..yes 3 now Dana....poly lines as we crossed them.....it is way easier to pull.

When I got done setting the heads...(26 heads in rougly 7 hours)....I didn't have any trenches to backfill! And I didn't have 17 inches of mud on the bottom of my Frankenstein boots! All I can say is wow.

Tomorrow I am adjusting the heads and nozzling them....I will let everyone know about the well.....

Did I mention Dana was very helpful?

Thanks

Dirty Water
03-22-2007, 08:42 PM
And another convert joins the flock.

Amazing eh :)

Wet_Boots
03-22-2007, 08:49 PM
Great. One more guy to bid against on equipment auctions :(

SprinklerGuy
03-22-2007, 08:50 PM
I'm not a buyer...I'm a renter, so no worries Boots.

I have never been a buyer....I don't plan to install more than 50 systems per year.....because I do them alone usually.....I choose to, don't have to.

But....I do need a new toy....

JB1
03-22-2007, 08:57 PM
How much time do you think you saved on the install.

londonrain
03-22-2007, 08:59 PM
Sounds like you needed a coverup machine.....

DanaMac
03-22-2007, 09:00 PM
Ah geez, shucks. I don't know what to say, except your welcome, and sorry to hit the pipes. I haven't installed since 2003 so it's been a few years since I ran one. Not surprised I hit some pipes. Next time design it so we don't have to worry about it!! I didn't like that the blade wasn't adjustable for height, so yeah, all the pipes are deeper than we would usually want.

Wet_Boots
03-22-2007, 09:01 PM
The 2-foot pull depth is a bit unusual-sounding to me. Our local construction adheres to an 18" burial minimum for phone/cable/electric, so staying around a foot or less deep makes for less potential destruction. Pipe under grass roots never seems to surface, and funny pipe makes line depths less critical.

SprinklerGuy
03-22-2007, 09:03 PM
I don't have all the time in yet..but so far I have 17 hours on site....2.5 of which was pulling pipe w/ Dana. I still have to adjust heads and clean up a bit...I bet I will have 20 hours total in the job....26 rotors....900 feet almost to the foot of poly....6 valve manifold....not to mention talk time w/ Dana and the General Contractor who also hunts elk....The yard was full of cottonwood roots so I have been fighting them as well.

Also, keep in mind, I am doing this ALONE.

I bet I am going to save 8 hours.....but really for me that isn't the best part, the lack of mess is HUGE in my eyes...and not having to rake and pack and rake some more....wow.

SprinklerGuy
03-22-2007, 09:04 PM
I was exaggerating on the depth...and besides.....I called the locate guys so wires weren't an issue.

As far as a cover up machine...will that work in an established yard or only on a dirt lot?

JB1
03-22-2007, 09:06 PM
The 2-foot pull depth is a bit unusual-sounding to me. Our local construction adheres to an 18" burial minimum for phone/cable/electric, so staying around a foot or less deep makes for less potential destruction. Pipe under grass roots never seems to surface, and funny pipe makes line depths less critical.


around here the phone and cable is a good two inches deep, sometimes less.

londonrain
03-22-2007, 09:22 PM
As far as a cover up machine...will that work in an established yard or only on a dirt lot?Cover up will work on both. In an established yard with one pass you get 95% of the soil back in the trench. We ( myself and my helper ) installed a 7 zone system, 6 turf zones and 1 shrub zone with 43 total heads this week in 2 days (16 hrs. total time).

Dirty Water
03-22-2007, 09:24 PM
You still have ugly trenchlines. We used to get jobs just for the fact that we plowed and the yards looked almost untouched when we were done.

londonrain
03-22-2007, 09:37 PM
You still have ugly trenchlines. We used to get jobs just for the fact that we plowed and the yards looked almost untouched when we were done. Only for a couple of weeks. Like I tell all of my customers "its like plastic surgery". I only cut 90 angles so it looks really neat and tidy. I recommend that the customer takes pictures of the entire yard after I am done for future reference where the piping is..
And also plowing in not much of an option in my area, on Monday I am working on a plowed system I will take a few pic on the depth of a plowed system in my area, two years ago on the same system a aerator hit the lines.

SprinklerGuy
03-22-2007, 09:37 PM
Actually....16 hours x 2 guys....32 man hours...

Still fast...but let's compare apples to apples...

I hate the trench lines as well.....and settling....and mud on my feet....I will never trench again unless I'm forced to.

londonrain
03-22-2007, 09:40 PM
Actually....16 hours x 2 guys....32 man hours...

Still fast...but let's compare apples to apples...

I hate the trench lines as well.....and settling....and mud on my feet....I will never trench again unless I'm forced to.
lol... I worked the entire 16hrs he was on site for 16hrs., if you know what I mean...

Wet_Boots
03-22-2007, 10:30 PM
around here the phone and cable is a good two inches deep, sometimes less.Cable here is a crapshoot, depending on when it went in. I don't think I ever nailed a phone line. (knock wood :hammerhead:) New construction is using a shared trench for the wiring, and it's open season on power wires not buried to code. Homeowner-buried lamp lines are always a risk, so I try to track those myself, along with cable drops and gas service double-checking.

SprinklerGuy
03-23-2007, 08:38 AM
If he is on site but not helping...you are better off without him.

I can ALMOST do an install in the same amount of time it took my 2 man crew without me....

I was in the office for so many years, I forgot how important efficiency is...I was just glad I didn't have to work in the field....now that I have sold that company....I see the error of my ways and I doubt I'll go back for a few more years.

londonrain
03-23-2007, 09:35 AM
If he is on site but not helping...you are better off without him.

I can ALMOST do an install in the same amount of time it took my 2 man crew without me....

I was in the office for so many years, I forgot how important efficiency is...I was just glad I didn't have to work in the field....now that I have sold that company....I see the error of my ways and I doubt I'll go back for a few more years.
He works but just not as hard as I do.....

bobw
03-23-2007, 10:34 AM
I am always amazed at the regional differences in how we do our jobs.

For residential work, around here, you'd be considered a fly-by-nighter if you don't own a puller (Ditch Witch 100sx >80% of the contractors). We pull poly and we pull it 6" down so that a 4" head sits nicely from the pipe on a fitting with a close nipple.

I wish the yards here were bigger so we could use some bigger equipment (255sx or a dingo...)

Az Gardener
03-23-2007, 10:44 AM
I'm so glad its you as a former AZ guy how do you think pulling would work here with our soil types and rocks caliche etc?

Dirty Water
03-23-2007, 11:33 AM
I am always amazed at the regional differences in how we do our jobs.

For residential work, around here, you'd be considered a fly-by-nighter if you don't own a puller (Ditch Witch 100sx >80% of the contractors). We pull poly and we pull it 6" down so that a 4" head sits nicely from the pipe on a fitting with a close nipple.

I wish the yards here were bigger so we could use some bigger equipment (255sx or a dingo...)

Is there no need for a swing joint with you poly guys?

BSME
03-23-2007, 11:36 AM
Is there no need for a swing joint with you poly guys?


I was cringing when I read it. Nobody in this market puts the head right on a nipple. Some are going towards the new saddles but they are still putting it on funny pipe.

I usually go 1''x1''x3/8'' (insert) tee to funny pipe

Dirty Water
03-23-2007, 11:38 AM
I figured you may not damage the pipe from a mower etc, but you still can't raise the or move the head at all.

bobw
03-23-2007, 11:43 AM
Is there no need for a swing joint with you poly guys?

It really isn't done around here on residential jobs, although we do use a bit of funny pipe if we need to move a head. I couldn't really tell you why it is that way, just that it is. On commercial sites, we always use swing joints.

I'm betting part of it is that we don't have heavy equipment running on residential lawns for cutting; that combined with begin able to plow pipe in at the right height, what would be the benefit?

Wet_Boots
03-23-2007, 11:57 AM
It could always be cut-off risers with a deeper pull. (can't remember the last time I used one)

justgeorge
03-23-2007, 04:37 PM
Great. One more guy to bid against on equipment auctions :(
Did you see the Ditch Witch 410sx on ebay in the Bronx a couple of weeks ago? 2004, 250 hours. Trencher but no boring tool. Went for 12,100.

SprinklerGuy
03-23-2007, 05:21 PM
AZ Gardner...

I don't know..but the guy who bought me out seems to think it will work..he is from the midwest also....but he doesn't do installs, just service...so I doubt he's tried it....besides, can you even rent a plow there? I never looked.

I could be convinced to come down this week or next and give it a shot.....it is spring training after all ;)

Greenguy1
03-24-2007, 07:57 AM
I've pulled pipe for fifteen years, it's the only way, there are a few that still trench? and it does have it's place i.e. large tree roots, very hard packed soil but overall pulling is the best way, as for connections, 5 min. for heads, 8min. for "T"s. Blazing saddles are the way to go with no swing pipe except near driveways, I like to keep my pipe at or near 10" depth and use cut off nipples, I have systems that have been in for 15 years and have never had a problem with a head directly on a nipple, even around driveways, the head must be installed at the proper height though and since we also do the landscaping it is assured that they will be installed properly. Q. has anyone ever pulled a kink in the ground and could not figure out why there was no water?

jirrigation
03-24-2007, 08:41 AM
The 410 is a beautiful machine. We use the trencher to dig our valve boxes, then turn it around and use the plow to pull pipe from the valve box out, all with the same machine.

bobw
03-24-2007, 11:54 AM
Q. has anyone ever pulled a kink in the ground and could not figure out why there was no water?

Nope... anytime I couldn't get water, I pretty much figured that I had to have pulled a kink in... :D

Duekster
03-24-2007, 12:01 PM
Not sure if it will work in our soil type here. I like the concept alot.

bobw
03-24-2007, 12:16 PM
Not sure if it will work in our soil type here. I like the concept alot.

You should be OK in DFW. I pull through a lot of clay around here, and although it is slower than loamy or sandy soils, you can get through. The biggest challenges to pulling are underground barriers like roots and large rocks. Otherwise, you should be able to bounce around smaller obstacles.

Duekster
03-24-2007, 01:00 PM
You should be OK in DFW. I pull through a lot of clay around here, and although it is slower than loamy or sandy soils, you can get through. The biggest challenges to pulling are underground barriers like roots and large rocks. Otherwise, you should be able to bounce around smaller obstacles.

Thanks Bobw.
I know V Plows are used for pulling various utilities around here. I would like to see some of the tricks of the trade before I tried it here.

bobw
03-24-2007, 01:10 PM
Thanks Bobw.
I know V Plows are used for pulling various utilities around here. I would like to see some of the tricks of the trade before I tried it here.

I'm sure that a call to your local ditch witch dealer would get you a free demo somewhere. Of course, then you'd be hounded by a sales guy for the rest of your life....

CAPT Stream Rotar
04-27-2007, 10:35 PM
wow...

the sprinklerGOD is admitting fault........

whats next.....womens l!beration?