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james mcdonald
03-26-2007, 12:14 PM
A dealer here has a new 2006 48 inch Tiger Cub with a 24 hp Briggs engine that he is selling for $5600 plus tax. The same mower with a 19 hp Kawasaki engine is selling for $6600 plus tax. Is there something wrong with the Briggs engine? I mow 2.5 acres/week now but may take on several additional yards later. I really like the mower but question the engine.

Envy Lawn Service
03-26-2007, 12:38 PM
No... it's fine.

I've recommended this exact machine to tons of people such as yourself.
So far, I've heard one engine complaint.

Gave the guy some info and haven't heard from him since.
I assume all is fine.

Look at it this way James,

For $1,000 less you get more displacement and more horsepower.
If it tears up, it has good warranty too...

And if it only lasts until the day after the warranty expires, you have that $1,000 to repair it, or replace it with whatever you want.

james mcdonald
03-26-2007, 12:50 PM
Thanks ENVY. Is there any special care that I need to take with respect to the engine air filter. Is there a prefilter I should purchase? Also, any ideal what a replacement engine would cost, parts and labor?

Envy Lawn Service
03-26-2007, 01:56 PM
Well, the exact version Scag is using on these units is somewhat different than the unit's I am experienced with.

It has a bit of a different air filter system style.

But here is what I know. Stock Briggs air filtration is good. Far and away better than Kawasaki's stock setup. I think Kawasaki invented the problem that caused the need for the addition of canister filtration on commercial machines.

With that said, I always run the Briggs paper elements. They look just like an automotive type. Then I buy a couple of spare foam pre-filters. This way I have a clean spare to throw on once one gets dirty and in need of cleaning.

You'll have to check into it and see whats available for that particular airbox setup. Briggs typically now has two styles of cartridges. The automotive type + foam prefilter... and what they call the extended life filter. It's a white fluffy washable media.

As far as engine replacement costs....

In 30 seconds on the internet I found a new small-block 19hp WITH the canister filter.
$775... and you'd need a muffler.

http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/images/pics/FH580V-AS32a.jpg

The going rate online for the 26hp Briggs seems to be $900

http://www.smallenginewarehouse.com/images/pics/44P777-0112a.JPG

A 23hp Briggs Vanguard can be had for the same money.

Installation is something most anyone can do themselves one saturday.
Direct swaps are real easy, just some wrenching.
Brand changes sometimes bring up wiring changes.

ACEMowing
03-26-2007, 04:18 PM
A dealer here has a new 2006 48 inch Tiger Cub with a 24 hp Briggs engine that he is selling for $5600 plus tax. The same mower with a 19 hp Kawasaki engine is selling for $6600 plus tax. Is there something wrong with the Briggs engine? I mow 2.5 acres/week now but may take on several additional yards later. I really like the mower but question the engine.

Don't forget that the Kawi model also has folding rops, flat free front tires, and adjustable sticks... that makes a little of the difference in price as well... none may be that big of a deal to you. I'd also recommend looking at the Bad Boy Pup before you decided. They are in the same price range but have the true commercial Vanguard Briggs and a lot of impressive other features and build.

Envy Lawn Service
03-26-2007, 05:19 PM
Don't forget that the Kawi model also has folding rops, flat free front tires, and adjustable sticks... that makes a little of the difference in price as well... none may be that big of a deal to you. I'd also recommend looking at the Bad Boy Pup before you decided. They are in the same price range but have the true commercial Vanguard Briggs and a lot of impressive other features and build.

No... matter of fact, I didn't have any idea that was the case.
I don't think anything but the ROPS would matter to me.
(but everyone is different)

Like myself, I would WANT the folding ROPS.
But most people seem to remove all ROPS first thing when the get home with them.

justartnout
03-26-2007, 11:37 PM
I put 130 hours on my B&S when the engine started knocking and then smoking.At 160 hours it was shot and I brought it in and the dealer replaced it with a newer version of the B&S extended life series. The B&S in the picture has a pretty good filter system. It seems to do a much better job then the first one. The only problem is a replacement filter runs about $20.

Envy Lawn Service
03-26-2007, 11:57 PM
I put 130 hours on my B&S when the engine started knocking and then smoking.At 160 hours it was shot and I brought it in and the dealer replaced it with a newer version of the B&S extended life series. The B&S in the picture has a pretty good filter system. It seems to do a much better job then the first one. The only problem is a replacement filter runs about $20.

Everybody builds bad ones.
Glad to hear you got it taken care of.
Were you the "one" I was talking about having an issue?

Anyways, I'm not sure what the deal is. I can't keep up with what is what. So I just refer straight to the warranty statement in the engine manual. If it has the 2 year commercial warranty, I'm comfortable with it.

Other than the shroud differences, the lower part of the motor looks the same on the outside on all of them except the vanguards. Meaning the intek looks the same down there as the others, and the reverse. But they are DIFFERENT, and certainly different inside.

Anyways, I've seen atleast 3 shroud styles labled ELS, one of which looks like the I/C Commercial... and so on.

But on to the air filters... $20?

That must be that thick white sorta fluffy extended life filter?
The one with the washable media?

If so, and if you can with your particular airbox... ditch that filter setup in favor of the automotive style accordian filter and the foam pre-filter.

Then you can just pop the cover once in a while and swap foam prefilters.
Like I said before, I keep spares to swap out, and clean the dirty ones, etc.

With the foam prefilter, the main filter lasts a long time, don't need replacing near as often, and they are not $20 when you need a new one either.

james mcdonald
03-27-2007, 01:20 PM
The briggs on the scag that I am looking at is the 24 hp ELS which has a snap on/plastic lever cover (no bolts as shown in the picture above). It has a rectangular accordian car-like air filter with no prefilter. The 26 hp ELS that is on the scag freedom z looks like the picture above. One thing I notice when I drove both the 26 hp freedom z and the 24 hp tiger cub was that the 24 hp engine had no vibration, especially at lower speeds, whereas the 26 hp engine had quite a lot. I asked the dealer about that and he said the 24 hp engine on the tiger cub was a better version of the briggs and was balanced better even though they were both ELS models. I have no idea if this is true or not.

justartnout
03-28-2007, 06:57 PM
James, I would stay away from that particular B&S. thats the one that I had to swap out, and the day I brought mine in there was 3 more in the boxes that had already been swapped out. The new one has a cannister type filter that seals very good around the intake. I have put about 20 hours on this filter and the inside of the intake still looks new. Much better than the first one. Look at it this way you could run it until the warranty almost expires and then you can get you a new one..

ss

brianslawncare
03-31-2007, 09:02 PM
i called a scag dealer and they said a briggs will not last as long as a kawi. i have two kawis. i have a scag turf tiger 27 kawi liquid cooled and a tiger cub with a 19 kawi. and i cut 52 yards per week. spend a little more to make it last longer. in the future you will expand. call and ask a scag dealer. unless you unload that within the warranty period. kawi is the way to go!:weightlifter:

wall
04-01-2007, 12:37 AM
I had to make the same decision last week. I purchased a Tiger Cub with a 48Ēdeck and 19hp. Kawasaki last weekend. I wanted the quick adjust levers, flat free tires and Donaldson air cleaner, plus if you look around the 19 Kaw is on Scagís walk-behind mowers, John Deere has it on a lot of their mowers and so does Exmark and Hustler. I am not saying that the Briggs is not a good choice itís that the Kawasaki KAI is a proven winner of an engine. And on top of all this if you go to the Kawasaki engine web site you will see that you can double your engine warranty (extended warranty applies to internal engine components) by using Kawasaki engine oil.

edhuffman777
04-01-2007, 12:49 AM
i had to make the same choice, i went with the 19hp kawi also, it has been great so far, i also think if your going to be in the business for the long haul, go ahead and get the kawasaki.

MANOFSTIHL
04-01-2007, 04:47 AM
Briggs and Scrap iron... eh, it'll do.

Kawasaki... me love you long time.

Plus the flat free tires, folding ROPS, adj handles, skid plate on deck, and Donaldson filter that come with the Kaw couldn't hurt.

man of stihl
11-18-2007, 08:58 PM
quite a unique name you have there bud?