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Rainman7
03-27-2007, 06:38 PM
I'm doing a commercial job that requires it to be done in all PVC (1.5 & 2"). The head spacing will be 60'.

The question for you PVC people is, do you find it easier to pull the PVC or trench it? I will be trenching the main and wires, but what about the heads?

Thanks,
Ray

paolaken
03-27-2007, 07:07 PM
i would pull it if possible. less mess. i pull pvc everyday. make sure you have a large bullet.

Mjtrole
03-27-2007, 08:09 PM
I'm doing a commercial job that requires it to be done in all PVC (1.5 & 2"). The head spacing will be 60'.

The question for you PVC people is, do you find it easier to pull the PVC or trench it? I will be trenching the main and wires, but what about the heads?

Thanks,
Ray


Did a very large job like that in ohio in 98 we had a 4" main, 2 1/2" after the valve to 2" down to 1 1/2" all pvc and it worked out so much better that we pulled it, we also did the 60' spacing for the 2001 toro rotors.

Just make sure you be careful with the pipe lengths, pulling can be a big time waste of pipe, we pulled it with a case 360 and we glued the pipe the night before and while we were pulling we dropped the trencher and trenched out for the heads and swings. Also, when you pull have some guys behind you ready to "pound" the heads together because you don't want the ground settling overnight.

Have Fun !!

BobcatBoy06
03-27-2007, 08:22 PM
I just pulled a few hundred ft of pvc with a mini bobcat with a vibratory plow of the front end it worked out really well, very little mess and it went super fast.

Dirty Water
03-27-2007, 09:02 PM
I've only pulled PVC, it works great.

Be warned though, your need a big plow to pull 2".

PurpHaze
03-27-2007, 11:12 PM
The head spacing will be 60'.

Just curious... what sprinkler and nozzle?

Rainman7
03-28-2007, 07:18 AM
Just curious... what sprinkler and nozzle?

I-25 w/ #20 nozzle. The pump puts out 300gpm @ 100psi. so I need to use some water.

The plow is a DW 410. I have pulled 2" poly with it before but never PVC. What grip do you find better? Chinese finger type or those socket type grips?

Thanks

PurpHaze
03-28-2007, 08:10 AM
I'm a trencher guy myself. I was just curious about how the thing is designed, what with 60' spacings (indicating larger sprinklers) and it seems that you're pulling just 1-1/2" and 2" pipe.

Dirty Water
03-28-2007, 10:54 AM
Uh, 300 GPM through 2"?

Is this magic 2" or are you are splitting up ten ways immediately out of the pump?

I've pulled 2" with a 410. You need a long start trench to get the pipe to a good depth, and a tow behind bullet.

I've always had better luck with the chinese finger grips, but the ones that fit 2" pipe are around 3' long, so you need a long ending hole.

PurpHaze
03-28-2007, 09:00 PM
Uh, 300 GPM through 2"?

Is this magic 2" or are you are splitting up ten ways immediately out of the pump?

Dammit Jon! You're ruining my fun. :laugh:

bicmudpuppy
03-28-2007, 09:01 PM
Uh, 300 GPM through 2"?

Is this magic 2" or are you are splitting up ten ways immediately out of the pump?



Come now Jon, 4 loops from the pump would carry that easily :)

Otherwise.............6" looped main? I don't think a 4" loop would carry 300gpm, but I'm to lazy to open a chart right this instant too.:drinkup:

PurpHaze
03-28-2007, 09:05 PM
OK Bryan... you're trying my patience too... just like Jon. :laugh:

I just wanted to see if a pipe chart was even pulled out for this design. Now all the fun has been totally taken out of it. :dizzy:

Rainman7
03-28-2007, 10:04 PM
You guys are rough, I didn't realize how deep you would dig into my design. All I asked was about pulling 1.5(35gpm) & 2"(55gpm), I planed on trenching the 6"(400gpm),4"(200gpm), & 3"(120gpm).

Anyway, thanks for the advice, I am going to try pulling the 1.5" & 2". By the way, any advice on how tight I should make the funny pipe fittings I am using to run the heads? 20gpm through 1/2" should work.....right?

Thanks all

PurpHaze
03-28-2007, 10:15 PM
We do it to everyone when we have to read between the lines. It's just our nature I guess. :)

PurpHaze
03-28-2007, 10:17 PM
20gpm through 1/2" should work.....right?

And just where did you find 20 GPM sprinklers with a 1/2" FIP inlet??? :laugh:

Dirty Water
03-28-2007, 10:19 PM
He's referring to the 1/2" by 3/4" Barb el's and the 1/2" swing pipe.

I-25's have a 1" inlet, so use solid swing joints (Marlex El's and a SCH 80 Nipple), don't use funny pipe.

PurpHaze
03-28-2007, 10:29 PM
Hell... I thought you "funny Barbies" use the stuff on all sizes of sprinklers??? :laugh:

Rainman7
03-28-2007, 10:34 PM
I was referring to that cool blue stripe 1/2" flexible pipe with those Taiwan elbows and a couple of 3/4 x 1 red. bushings. I use enough pipe so that when I need to change a head I could just pull it out of the ground and stuff it back in without digging a hole. Sort of like wiring a receptacle.:confused:

Hey Hayes, do you install or just service those big systems?

Mike Leary
03-28-2007, 10:42 PM
Jeez Jon, are you thinking the industry is so ******ed as to use swing pipe
with I-40s? Seen it w/I-20s. The 3/4" lasco swing pipe assembly is cool.

Dirty Water
03-28-2007, 11:02 PM
Jeez Jon, are you thinking the industry is so ******ed as to use swing pipe
with I-40s? Seen it w/I-20s. The 3/4" lasco swing pipe assembly is cool.

Nothing surprises me anymore Mike.

PurpHaze
03-29-2007, 08:23 AM
Hey Hayes, do you install or just service those big systems?

In the past I've designed, installed and of course now maintain them. However, in the past couple of years things have gotten way too big for just the two of us assigned to irrigation and they've contracted out the major installs. Most of those I do the R&D on and then make a "recommendation" in the form of a design that a contractor then installs. Course all new schools are funded through the state and are contracted outside.

Rainman7
04-02-2007, 04:51 PM
The job I am talking about here has two 4" sleeves which make it hard to fit a 6" line through. I am considering bringing two 3" line through the sleeves and refeeding the 6" on the other side. So it will be going from 6" to two 3" to 6". The length of each 3" piece will be about 30'. Anyone think splitting this line like that will have any adverse effect on the system? Putting in a 8" sleeve is not an option.

Thanks

Mike Leary
04-02-2007, 05:32 PM
I would be looking at the friction losses of not just the pipe but the fittings.
30' not much, but I recall you're using a ton of water & pressure so fittings
should be looked at. Use 45 ells when possible always. I don't have experience in that kind of psi/gpm, but I'd ask other members what they think
about the need for some kind of thrust blocks.

Dirty Water
04-02-2007, 07:18 PM
I would be looking at the friction losses of not just the pipe but the fittings.
30' not much, but I recall you're using a ton of water & pressure so fittings
should be looked at. Use 45 ells when possible always. I don't have experience in that kind of psi/gpm, but I'd ask other members what they think
about the need for some kind of thrust blocks.

Glue pipe should not use thrustblocks, if it is a mix of glue and gasketed it will, gasketed always needs thrust blocks.

Flow wise, you should be ok splitting it for 30'.

Mike Leary
04-02-2007, 07:50 PM
I thought they only used gasketed for sewer piping, do you mean flanged?
When are you coming over to see some REAL sprinkler systems?

Dirty Water
04-02-2007, 08:14 PM
I thought they only used gasketed for sewer piping, do you mean flanged?
When are you coming over to see some REAL sprinkler systems?

Gasketed pipe is used for large mainlines quite often.

I'm pretty busy all this month, maybe may?

Mjtrole
04-02-2007, 09:20 PM
I thought they only used gasketed for sewer piping, do you mean flanged?
When are you coming over to see some REAL sprinkler systems?

Gasket usually for 3" or bigger and usually most piping larger than 2" on golf courses, what size pump are you using on this project? In my first response I mentioned I installed a large project in Ohio in late 90's we used a 10 horse and had problems blowing out 3" and 4" 45's on glued pipe, specs usually call for thrust blocking on any "disturbed" ground at change of direction but you also have to account for the fact that a fully trenched and backfilled mainline will still shift with that type of water running through it.

PurpHaze
04-02-2007, 10:37 PM
The job I am talking about here has two 4" sleeves which make it hard to fit a 6" line through.

Try "impossible"... not "hard" to get through.

I am considering bringing two 3" line through the sleeves and refeeding the 6" on the other side.

3" pipe won't fit through a 4" pipe sleeve either.

Mike Leary
04-03-2007, 02:46 PM
I'm pretty busy all this month, maybe may?[/QUOTE]



Look forward to a visit Jon, watch out for Hank Reardon's 11 percent.

Rainman7
04-03-2007, 10:22 PM
To tell ya the truth, I was planing on using sch. 40 all glue until I read some posts. Today I went to a pipe supply house and was looking at Blue Brute gasketed pipe. The pipe itself is not all that much more expensive, but the fittings and transition fitting required are pretty high. While at the supply house I also noticed that they had 5" sch. 40 bell end which I didn't even know was made.

Like I said, it is a 30hp.pump,300gpm@100psi. What would you use?

Dirty Water
04-03-2007, 11:03 PM
To tell ya the truth, I was planing on using sch. 40 all glue until I read some posts. Today I went to a pipe supply house and was looking at Blue Brute gasketed pipe. The pipe itself is not all that much more expensive, but the fittings and transition fitting required are pretty high. While at the supply house I also noticed that they had 5" sch. 40 bell end which I didn't even know was made.

Like I said, it is a 30hp.pump,300gpm@100psi. What would you use?

Do you have a backhoe or a mini ex? Pushing together 6" gasketed pipe is not easy to do by hand.

bicmudpuppy
04-04-2007, 07:31 AM
Do you have a backhoe or a mini ex? Pushing together 6" gasketed pipe is not easy to do by hand.

And glueing 4" (or 5) BE is?? Gasketed may be somewhat more pricey, and it is early and temps aren't bad yet, but glue large BE pipe when the temps are in the 90's and see how nevervous you get with each bell end connection. A little butter and a persuader, and you can get gasketed together. The more help you have the easier it is, but I have done 4" glue and gasketed alone and given any choice................Yeah. Repair work can be different. I like to know things are solid, BUT I want a mechanical for the last step. A 4" slip fix on a high pressure main is begging to dig the hole again someday. Probably tomorrow!

PurpHaze
04-04-2007, 10:51 AM
To tell ya the truth, I was planing on using sch. 40 all glue until I read some posts.

Don't let the posts scare you. Having a tremendous amount of experience with "large pipe" I can tell you that it's really no different glueing it than working with 1" pipe. Major difference is that you need a trench that you can comfortably work in. Large pipe doesn't deflect much so your trenches and turns need to be closer to true. You will need a larger can of glue/primer and a larger dauber/roller to apply the glue.

Today I went to a pipe supply house and was looking at Blue Brute gasketed pipe. The pipe itself is not all that much more expensive, but the fittings and transition fitting required are pretty high.

Additionally, if a system has any gasketed pipe in it then you will either need to pour concrete thrust blocks or use mechanical restraint devices at all changes of direction. If you glue tees in at your valves then this will be less expensive than gasketed or mechanical tees. There's many ways the layout can be accomplished.

While at the supply house I also noticed that they had 5" sch. 40 bell end which I didn't even know was made.

This pipe is a hold-over from well and agriculture use. It's not commonly used in irrigation systems and most pipe charts jump from 4" to 6" because of it. You'll need to get the pipe characteristics (GPM capacity; friction loss, etc.) from your supplier or the manufacturer if you plan on using it. We have one school site that has approximately 800' of 5" pipe in the ground. We don't stock 5" fittings but they're available from one of our suppliers within a couple of days but we're in the agricultural breadbasket of CA so this makes obtaining them easier. If you're going to maintain the system then be aware of the differences between obtaining 4"/6" fittings versus 5" fittings.

Like I said, it is a 30hp.pump,300gpm@100psi. What would you use?

Of those 300 GPM what is the maximum amount plus 10% that you will be using at any given time? Are you planning on having enough valves open simultaneously and for the same length of time to use up most of that 300 GPM at the same time?

Without seeing the plot plan and anticipated layout there's no way to give you an accurate answer. For example, if the property is going to have a straight shot main line and you will be using the entire 300 GPM then you'll need a long, large main line like 6". If the main line routing shoots off in different directions you could get away with a 6" main line for a short distance from the pump and then downsize to 4" (or even smaller) for main line spurs depending on the anticipated total GPM use of the spur. Then there's always the possibility of looping the main line which theoretically will allow you to decrease the main line sizing by one pipe size but God forbid if the loop is ever cut out.

PurpHaze
04-04-2007, 10:54 AM
A 4" slip fix on a high pressure main is begging to dig the hole again someday. Probably tomorrow!

Hey... but there's those that swear by them on pressurized lines. BUT... not me! :laugh:

I have a 6" Slip Fix in the back room that's just been gathering dust for 20+ years. Can't wait to use it next time I have a 6" main line let loose. :nono: