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scottt
03-28-2007, 12:27 AM
I am looking into buying a 21" toro commercial with the 2 cycle suzuki for $50. It needs a new recoil assembly, which I will buy and put on the mower before I buy it to see if it runs. Can these engines be rebuilt and if so what is involved and how much does it cost?

dutch1
03-28-2007, 06:54 AM
When I last worked in a Toro shop, retail on the Suzuki equipped BBC, 3 speed self propelled commericial was nearing $1100. This would be a real buy for a parts pit for someone who already had one. Before I spent the money for a recoil assembly, I'd try starting by using a rope around the starter cup.

As for rebuilding, you won't find any inexpensive parts for a Suzuki unless you have a friend who is a Toro dealer. I would guess a carb rebuild kit alone is now nearing $30. If the CDI pack is dead that's another $150. You will likely spend close to $50 for just the recoil assembly but you may possibly need nothing more than the recoil spring. Check the engine for excessive horizontal and vertical end play. Pull the muffler and check the condition of the cylinder, piston and rings.

If the deck assembly, transmission, wheels, height adjusters and handles are in good condition, but the engine needs work, I would consider a short block assembly. With a short block at least you know you'll be starting with a sound engine.

As for me I'd venture the $50, tear the engine down and do a complete inspection. If things don't work out, you can part it out for at least 4 times the money.

Check into www.toro.com and get a parts break down. Price out the parts at a Toro dealer and then you can make an intelligent decision.

Dutch

scottt
03-28-2007, 11:55 AM
Thanks for the quick reply. I was planning on buying a recoil assembly to start the mower, but I just found out it's $130:dizzy: . I think I'll take your advice and put a rope around the cup, I didn't think about that.

dutch1
03-28-2007, 10:22 PM
I had all three of my kids using Toro Suzuki 2 strokers and any time we got a junker in at the shop I'd bring it home and scavage them for parts. Among those parts were numerous recoil assemblies, CDI packs.BBC belts,bearings, etc. When the kids wore their mowers, I tossed everything in the trash.

The big problem was that the Suzukis, both 2 and 4 stroke, would far outlast the rest of the mower. I transferred several old engines over to new deck assemblies because the owners were in love with the engine,

Given proper care, I'm convinced those engines would last 20+ years under homeowner conditions. My oldest daughter straight gassed a two cycle but got it shut down just as ity started squealing. That mower ran another 3 years. In my opinion, they are the two best engines ever put on a homeowner mower. There is a reason that they put it on the commercial unit.

Dutch

mowerman87
06-26-2008, 02:59 PM
I just payed $550 for a fully rebuilt Suzuki 2 cycle and only got to use it one day. As soon as I let my guys try it, they completely bogart the thing and I'm stuck using the bohemoth that is the kawasaki 6.5 hp mower. I strongly recommend getting your hands on as many 2 cycles as you can. They are almost effortless to operate compared to the absurdly bulky 6.5 hp kawa, and my guys like the suzuki even better than the 5.5hp hondas. In my humble opinion, the 2 cycle ranks first in durability and the kawasaki ranks worst.

jkason
06-26-2008, 04:04 PM
Mowerman -
Screw that, the good equipment is for the owner, let the gorillas use the other stuff.

Dutch -
Yeah, great unit. Had a customer drop one off when he bought a new Husqvarna 21" s/p mower. For $100 (my cost) in parts (mostly wheel stuff), I sold the thing to my older female neighbor - she has a steep embankment on one side of her porperty.

lawnboy dan
06-27-2008, 09:39 AM
the robin 2 stroke is even better than the zuki

xpnd
06-28-2008, 10:42 AM
Just curious. Where are you buying short blocks and for that matter the complete carb? Years ago before EPA banned these from US importation I purchased a dozen short blocks and half that many new carbs. I'm down to two short blocks and rebuilding carbs.

As far as the original thread; do a compression check. If it is at or below 125 it is suitable for many years of homeowner use but not commercial production work. It will cut grass below 125 but not very fast.

mowermankevin
06-28-2008, 05:19 PM
If you could still get all the parts,(which I still have, recoils, air cleaner assemblys, all the exterior stuff,) it still comes down to piston and jug and worn out carb bodies. The 2 cycle Suzuki was the lighest displacement to power ratio ever put on a mower, but if they weren't kep't clean they smoked,hence the EPA did away with them. As long as you have one with good compression and a good carb keep mowing, but blow out the air cleaner every day, keep the air filter clean and you have a jewel from a bygone era. Hey 87, how was Europe?

Itsgottobegreen
06-29-2008, 12:00 AM
I swear by mine.

44DCNF
06-29-2008, 02:20 AM
What would you guys think an unused bbc model from the final year would go for? They were $1200 at the time in my area. Would a guy with such a mower be nuts for selling it? Me thinks.

mowermankevin
06-29-2008, 02:29 AM
Hey 44, If it's a straight shaft crank, not tapered BBC, and all the other stuff checks out, (tranny, height adusters, handlebars, cables,traction and throttle) it's still retail price.

mowerman87
06-29-2008, 10:13 AM
those tapered crankshafts got me mad...

xpnd
06-29-2008, 01:10 PM
What would you guys think an unused bbc model from the final year would go for? They were $1200 at the time in my area. Would a guy with such a mower be nuts for selling it? Me thinks.

Nope, not a deal if it is a bbc. A lot of idiots went out and bought these as an investment??? to sell at a higher price after quantity on hand had been sold out. I saw some of these going for $1500+ at the dealer.

I loved these units and I'm still sending out 4 every day of the week. I'm down to 2 short blocks NIB which I will probably be using next year. The problem is parts, particularly the starters, can be hard to come by unless you have a bunch of junkers to cannibalize parts from. Dealers can still get the parts but generally don't have them in inventory. I have ten units I use as my parts inventory to keep the four running.

DSIM
07-28-2008, 03:58 PM
Xpnd, would you be willing to sell one of your short blocks?

Mine has been going strong for over 7 years commercially in a solo op.

I just replaced the adapter blade and installed a high blade and noticed the engine sounded like it was really straining. I noticed that you can push the blade vertically about a half inch.

I'm guessing crankshaft bearings?

I'm looking at possibly buying a new exmark 21" with the honda and keeping the 2 cycle for a back up.

_CY_
05-15-2011, 05:24 AM
just purchased a Toro GTS5 with Suzuki 2 stroke motor for the short block
normally you would see this motor on the commercial model.

GTS5's two stroke engine has good compression with history of only homeowner use.

got another Toro Commercial 22040 with low compression.
rest of 22040 looks very close to new but someone ran it without a filter.

will the short blocks interchange between GTS5 and 22040 commercial?
got new rings and oil seals already ordered for 22040. but would much rather change out short blocks instead and turn GTS5 into a parts mower.

_CY_
05-15-2011, 09:24 PM
bump... anyone know if Suzuki 2 stroke short blocks are the same for Toro commercial and GTS-5?

they look like the same motor...

OldLawnMowerMan81
08-18-2011, 02:46 AM
bump... anyone know if Suzuki 2 stroke short blocks are the same for Toro commercial and GTS-5?

they look like the same motor...
Why, of course they're the same motor. The ones branded "GTS" are usually the homeowner versions (for example, model 20684), and the "-5" suffix indicates a five-year warranty. Commercial versions (like models 22035 and 22043) usually have warranties that are limited to between 90 days and one year from date purchased.

Theoretically, these engines can run as low as 2850 RPM (if engine is set to 3000 RPM, with the governor return spring in the bottom hole) and as high as 3750 RPM (when engine is set to 3600 RPM, with return spring in top hole). The 3450 to 3750 RPM figures are usually suited to hover-mower (a usually non-U.S. artifact) usage while lawn mower usage typically would have the settings between 2850-3150 (3000 RPM main speed) or 3150-3450 (3300 RPM main speed) RPM.

~Ben