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View Full Version : $100 to the best design$$


Eden Lights
03-29-2007, 12:49 AM
Ok, This is a design element that I always struggle with. Large lawn with large shade trees in front of the home, Home will be illuminated also, but my question pretains to the lawn trees. If you want to say something about the house still feel free to do so. Pics are from the street and from the front door looking back at the street. Client's previous home was an 200 fixture install, but the trees were in large beds and they where to the left and right of the home. I tell you about the past because they loved their large trees in their previous home, but it was a much different layout. Any questions? I will mail the check out on Monday to my favorite design$$

Eden Lights
03-29-2007, 12:52 AM
Pictures Added

Eden Lights
03-29-2007, 12:54 AM
I will submit my idea at the end with some past examples, but I didn't want to taint your ideas with mine at this point.

klkanders
03-29-2007, 03:04 AM
Ok I will give it a try but go easy on me I am a rookie! The eye has to be drawn to the house first....thru the trees......to the brick surrounding the main entry. The light here should be just a little brighter than other accent lights highlighting the rest of the brick on the front of then home. Include some second story lights focusing on the peaks of the Gables. Get some lights back on the roof to create depth and shadowing including the roof area on the right side of the picture! Now for the trees....What about placing uplights (wells?), on the house side of them so they can be enjoyed from the home side without being seen directly from the street. This also would be like backlighting them on the street side causing some nice shadowing. Add a few down lights from tree to tree making sure none point back towards street and if needed some uplights higher up in tree to fill in the canopy. I hope most of that made sense...its late but i'm up finishing a proposal.

JC Lighting
03-29-2007, 03:27 AM
Eddie,

Here are some ideas: I would ask the home owner if they would consider creating planting pockets / beds around the trees. The beds could be planted and boulders could be added to create more interest and to hide the fixture / light source. Also, I would discuss with the home owner the possibility of creating 2 or more zones each with a separately switched transformer for each so that the house could be lit separate from the trees. This way you could set it up to have different layers of light depending upon the mood / occasion / lifestyle etc. of the home owners and their guests. You would even have two interspersed layers of trees switched separately. Maybe the trunk washes separate from the canopy so you could have a more subtle lighting of the trees for routine days.

A Bit More specific: Lighting the trees as is without adding beds, you could use well lights in the lawn that recessed the glass below the grade so that the protective glass cover didnít become a glare bomb after the first watering or rain. Of course the well light should have some type of metal grate at grade level for protection and safety. Limit the quantity of well lights for each tree with a substantial canopy to 3 to 5. My guess is that the home owner will want 360 degree viewing. For the larger canopy trees, I would recommend two fixtures between tree and house one offset to right and one offset to left of trunk both washing the trunk and highlighting the canopy. From the front I would use three lights. One in line with the trunk washing it and two further back to the right and left highlighting the canopy. The light levels should be lower at the street and get brighter on the trees closer to the house with the plantings close to the house a bit brighter than all the rest. It should be a gradual transition, no huge jumps in brightness. To counter the spots on the ground caused by the well lights you could put several down lights to softly flood the area around each tree to provide context and fill light. You may choose to light the trunk this way as well. Most of the trees appear to be very high before the canopy starts so this could be a challenge. Also this height would appear to prohibit placing up-lights in the lower branches. However, if Iím wrong about the height this would be a great way to limit the number of well lights. I would light the 5 trees close together as one unit. I would wash the trunks and not worry about the canopy so much. You might be able to get by with one in the middle and a single light for two trees. I canít quite tell.

Anyway just some ideas. I canít wait to see what others come up with.

Jim C.

NightScenes
03-29-2007, 08:28 AM
I'll try to chime in on this a little later. I have 11 projects of my own to design first. I'll need a break from them a little later on today or tomorrow.

Pro-Scapes
03-29-2007, 07:01 PM
Well im gonna pop in with my idea too... I would limit the amount of light on the trees so you dont distract from the home. I would also try to get some plantined beds and boulders installed then go with minor uplighting and area lights to show off some color in the beds. Perhaps a pondless waterfall would be outstanding in that area. I also like rocks carved with the address then lit softly with a 10w incadesant wallwash light too

If thats not an option. Going by how it is pictured. 1 well light in the center of that group of trees. 5 more in a pentagon shape around the cluster.

On the other trees: to the far right a soft 20w on the trunk then some soft wattage well lights doing the canopy. Dont over light it at all. I would think 3 wide angle 35 w might be pushing it.

from the other 2 trees by the driveway... some 4700kelvin 35w 36degree moon lights... 2 to 4 of em tagging the driveway with some soft uplights on the trunks. I wouldnt do much to the canopies on this.

With the tree half way uup the yard i wouldnt do anything as far as uplighting. I would Might try to moonlight the driveway a bit more from there if distance permits.

Its really hard to give design ideas not only via pictures but also not knowing what your client really likes... perhaps some pics of thier old home that they liked the lighting at ? Some clients like dim and subtle... others like BAM!!!!

NiteTymeIlluminations
03-29-2007, 07:18 PM
of course my ideas got wiped clean immediately...well I tried to help...I dont knwo why I even try on this forum!

Eden Lights
03-30-2007, 12:25 AM
Thanks so far, I have numbered the trees so everyone could be more specific.

NightScenes
03-30-2007, 11:11 AM
OK, I have a moment now and will chime in. I would use 2 well lights on trees 1 and 6 to light them them well and frame the house in the portrait. I would say by the photos that an FMW would work very nicely. I would then use down lights in trees 1,2 and 3 to softly "moon" light the driveway and fill in the area between trees 1 and 6. I would say that 3 down lights for the driveway, 60 degree BABs and then 2 more shining into the lawn area for a total of 5 down lights. I'm not going to mention the home, as you said you have that well in hand.

Man, I sure could use that $100 design fee!!:laugh:

klkanders
03-30-2007, 01:26 PM
Sure Paul take my ideas and run with them! :) The trees were not numbered when I gave my ideas .....so much easier now......haha Since Paul is my mentor and I but a student give him the $100 and I will just settle for an Eden Lights shirt!

NiteTymeIlluminations
03-30-2007, 01:29 PM
60 degree bab...isnt that a oxymoron?

NightScenes
03-30-2007, 02:36 PM
Ok I will give it a try but go easy on me I am a rookie! The eye has to be drawn to the house first....thru the trees......to the brick surrounding the main entry. The light here should be just a little brighter than other accent lights highlighting the rest of the brick on the front of then home. Include some second story lights focusing on the peaks of the Gables. Get some lights back on the roof to create depth and shadowing including the roof area on the right side of the picture! Now for the trees....What about placing uplights (wells?), on the house side of them so they can be enjoyed from the home side without being seen directly from the street. This also would be like backlighting them on the street side causing some nice shadowing. Add a few down lights from tree to tree making sure none point back towards street and if needed some uplights higher up in tree to fill in the canopy. I hope most of that made sense...its late but i'm up finishing a proposal.

Oh, but see I'm talking cross lighting the trees so the well lights will be located on the sides and not the back. I would make the trees that I specified stand out to frame the house. Then fill in the middle with soft moon light which will make the home stand out in the background.

Pro-Scapes
03-30-2007, 05:35 PM
60 degree bab...isnt that a oxymoron?

Cbab60... as paul stated before... do you see the BAB in there ?

Now back to the trees

Since there were not numbered before here goes my idea WITH numbers.

Tree 1 and 2 AND 3(as stated before others with this idea) moon light driveway... 20-35w (depends on ambient light) 4700k moon light bulb (solux) perhaps some light trunk grazing via well lights.

group 4... 1 well light in the center... low wattage depending on the ambient light perhaps 20w 60degree.
Surround group 4 with 4 to 5 well lights with low wattage bulbs... this is just an accent not a feature.

tree 5 2 well lights and perhaps 2 to 3 lights mounted in tree to hit canopy. All 20w... 12 or 24 degree in wells and 36 or 60 deg inside canopy.

leave 6 alone... the home will provide enough backlighting along with tree 5.

tree 7... hrmmm this is questionablePerhaps just a single well light to graze the trunk.

8... this could be your big bang... well lights crossing at the fall line of the tree.... 1 light on the base of the trunk with 4-5 more lights firing every way possible in the crotch.

This is just what you could do... In reality I would probably leave them alone save the moon lighting. A house set back in some trees lit nicely just looks so dramatic almost like a fairy tale.

SamIV
03-30-2007, 11:09 PM
I would uplight only number 8 with 4 to five 36 or maybe 60 degree 20 watt lamps, and as much as I hate climbing trees, I would downlight all remaining with 20 watt 60 degree lamps being as settle as I could and use the house as the Gross Piece or center piece. I would not highlight the trunks at all close to the ground if possible. This would again be in the direct field of view of the house from the street. You could cross light the tops of the trees to delight the owners also if desired but only using 20 watt again as not to detract from the Gross Piece.

Sam IV
Accent Outdoor Lighting

Pro-Scapes
03-31-2007, 10:29 AM
I think this is great... so many different ideas and views on the same project.. Have one coming up in the future (not sure exactly when) that is on the national registry of historic homes. Going to be one of them homes you just look at say CRAP where do you start. its about 6 to 8k sq ft

bumper
04-01-2007, 08:26 PM
Here is my two cents, change due upon request.

Fairly similiar to a job I am starting to tomorrow so will apply some of the same concepts.

#8 because it's a specimen would get two well lights cross lit from either side, Depending upon ambient light I would consider two tree mounted 20w for capturing the canopy and spread a little on 7.
#1,2 and 3 I would primarily use for downlighting the driveway but at the same time capture the lower trunks on #1 and 2 and tree mount uplight 3 to help balance 8. or to use Paul's notion of moon lighting but since he already went there I am going the other way

I prefer to see the house through the trees meaning the more light used in the trees the harder it is for my eyes to transition from yard to house. That said if the lighting of the house carries enough light I should be able to see directly through 4,5,7.

Flower beds around the front trees with low wattage down lights would be a cool effect on selected plant material. But would not want to bring attention to grass only.

Eden Lights
04-03-2007, 12:41 AM
OK, I have a moment now and will chime in. I would use 2 well lights on trees 1 and 6 to light them them well and frame the house in the portrait. I would say by the photos that an FMW would work very nicely. I would then use down lights in trees 1,2 and 3 to softly "moon" light the driveway and fill in the area between trees 1 and 6. I would say that 3 down lights for the driveway, 60 degree BABs and then 2 more shining into the lawn area for a total of 5 down lights. I'm not going to mention the home, as you said you have that well in hand.

Man, I sure could use that $100 design fee!!:laugh:

Wow!! Thanks for all the great responses. I have taken some pointers from every post for my tool bag. With that being said Paul comes out the winner because his ideas are the closest to my proposal that will be presented on Wednesday. I will keep you guys posted on how it goes. Paul is your address correct on your website?

klkanders
04-03-2007, 12:54 AM
:clapping: Way to go Paul! Spend the money wisely........:drinkup:
Eden.....let us know how it goes and more pics would be great! Thanks

Eden Lights
04-03-2007, 12:58 AM
I plan to downlight the drive from 1, 2, & 3. Uplighting on 1 and maybe 2 with the exact locations to be determined during the install as always. Trees 3, 4, 5, & 7 will disappear into the darkness and not distract from the house. Uplighting and downlighting will also be in the plan for tree 6 or 8, I am leaning toward tree 8, but I haven’t completely decided yet.

I did this very same concept with the center trees performing downlighting as some mentioned and I am not sure if I like it or not? What do you think???

NightScenes
04-03-2007, 01:05 AM
WOW, I can't believe I actually won it!! Yes, my address is correct on my site. I might be able to take my wife out to dinner.

I can't wait to see the pics when your done. What software are you using for this CG pic?

Eden Lights
04-03-2007, 01:16 AM
I can't wait to see the pics when your done. What software are you using for this CG pic?

What does CG stand for?

NightScenes
04-03-2007, 08:26 AM
It looks enhanced maybe, or generated with Pro Landscape software? CG=Computer Generated.

Pro-Scapes
04-03-2007, 09:31 AM
Way to go pablo... The pic is of a different project paul.... Outstanding picture as well Eden. Very nice work.

Eden Lights
04-03-2007, 04:35 PM
Any picture that I show as examples are the real deal, I follow a couple of self imposed rules. No exposure, brightness, dark area correction , and or etc. I do sharpen all my pictures which helps with the longer exposure times and I do elimnate any artifical light (Glare) that is not on the clients property. I leave everything else alone because I think if there is something there that I don't like I should address it in real life.

The pic is of a past property that I had installed down lighting in front of the home and I have not always been 100% sold on as a design prinicpal. The lot drops off right in front of the home, which made pics hard to get. I had to use a fisheye lense to get the home before the drop off. Notice the glare from the bollards which the client said was a must have due to people always running off the drive while looking at the big dropoff on the other side.

Pro-Scapes
04-03-2007, 06:22 PM
looks almost like a fish eye lens on your camera.. What fixtures did you use for downlighting... i may really need some of thoes on this next project.

May have to steal your idea and do a contest on it!

I really want to make sure I preserve the daytime view of the home. Its on the national registry of historic places. I really hope he plans to restore the landscape. Wish I had pictures of the back yard.

thilawncare
04-03-2007, 08:04 PM
Is that a Boeganvilla(sp)(Bright Purple Plant) on the corner of that curb? thats thing is crazy... we had one in our display for our hort club in our local garden show... everyone loved it...
and make sure up uplight that flag pole.... LOL

Pro-Scapes
04-03-2007, 10:39 PM
i never paid attention to that plant... The landscape needs help bad... the flag pole is the EASIEST part of this install... 3 well lights at 35w triangulated will hit it nicely.

Really considering recessed lights in the sofits to hide them. Gotta meet with him soon but he LOVES 2 other projects we have done for co workers (doctors)

ChampionLS
04-04-2007, 08:43 PM
Looks like a regular Azalea.

jbailey52
04-04-2007, 11:47 PM
Not so sure of that.. azaleas dont lose leaves as much as have them die still on the plant.. and look like a cat puked on your shrub... looks like a rosa member to me

Pro-Scapes
04-05-2007, 07:57 AM
looks like a sick azalea to me.

I dont care about the plant i need suggestions on the house lol

Firefly Lighting
04-05-2007, 06:35 PM
Ok, this is what I would do. I would install 2 175 watt Mercury Vapor Moonlight (down light) fixtures in each of the canopies of trees 1,3, and 5. Mount the fixtures so that they illuminate to the right and left of each tree. This will provide illumination to the grass area as well as the trees which cannot be done from the ground. Up lighting the trees will do nothing for the lawn so I would rule that out not to mention they probably like the fact that the grass goes up to the base of the trees. This is a line voltage installation though so you would have to have someone familiar with this type of lighting.

dchauling
04-08-2007, 11:04 AM
I have never done lighting but you guys are amazing