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View Full Version : What makes more sense new or used?


mrusk
03-29-2007, 04:34 PM
What do you guys think makes more financial sense over time, new or used trucks?

My dad always bought new vehicles. So when i went into business i bought a new 05 3/4 ton dodge cummins. My repairs/maintanence for all of last year was around 650 dollars. Basically thats just oil changes, differencial fluid changes, wipers, and thats about it.

I know what people who spend upwards for 10k on one vehicle for maintenance some years.

This year i need to add another truck. I do not know which way to go. It seems like most vehicles 2-3 years old are selling for almost the same price as new.

I know any mason dump in the 15k price range will be beat to hell.


Thinking long term what do you guys think really works out best? I am just alittle scared buying used since i have no experience with it and am not a great mechanic. Also being a 2 truck company, i can not afford the down time.

Maybe i should just buy two used trucks.

Gravel Rat
03-29-2007, 07:45 PM
If the 05 Dodge is your personal truck don't get rid of it. I spent many years dealing with used trucks and I'am done with fooling around with junk. The 2003 F-450 I bought only had 58,000kms (36,000 miles) on it and so far its the best truck I ever owned.

Trying to find a mason dump is going to be nearly impossible your going to have to build your own. Try find a cab and chassis or a truck that had a 12' Van on it take the body off and put a dump box on it.

Search for something that is about 4 years old it still should be in good shape anything older than that will be a money pit.

topsites
03-29-2007, 07:51 PM
The trick with used is knowing the blue book (and refusing to pay more) and being able to determine, from condition, if it will need a lot of work done. A truck in fair condition will need a considerable amount of work done (anywhere from several hundred to 1,500 or so all DIY that's just parts), a vehicle in good condition should need some relatively minor basics (say several hundred in parts but not much more), and a vehicle in excellent condition should need nothing or almost nothing (maybe a fuse but really not).

The problem is finding someone honest. Most likely you'd want to check into a reputable automotive dealership who sells only at Blue Book, has all of their vehicles completely gone over, and most are at least in good but really excellent condition.

To get this combination, I'd recommend you go to Carmax.
More than likely you won't find better for less, but I don't even think you'll find as good for same.

Youngbeginner
03-29-2007, 08:03 PM
I am reading a financial book by Dave Ramsey right now. The chapter I read today talked about buying vehicles. If you are paying cash and have a discount through a relative in the automotive industry, then possibly buy new. But, if you are taking out a large loan to buy a new vehicle then don't. Instead, buy a dependable used truck that has depreciated, and save/invest the money in a high interest account that you would have been paying out each month for the loan/interest. After several years, you will have enough money saved up + the old truck as a trade in/ or sell in order to buy something newer with cash. I am no expert by any means, but I would suggest looking into Dave Ramsey's financial books, they help with getting out and staying out of debt. I guess the key is slow growth without debt at first will = quick growth in the long run.

Tim Wright
03-29-2007, 08:30 PM
I am reading a financial book by Dave Ramsey right now. The chapter I read today talked about buying vehicles. If you are paying cash and have a discount through a relative in the automotive industry, then possibly buy new. But, if you are taking out a large loan to buy a new vehicle then don't. Instead, buy a dependable used truck that has depreciated, and save/invest the money in a high interest account that you would have been paying out each month for the loan/interest. After several years, you will have enough money saved up + the old truck as a trade in/ or sell in order to buy something newer with cash. I am no expert by any means, but I would suggest looking into Dave Ramsey's financial books, they help with getting out and staying out of debt. I guess the key is slow growth without debt at first will = quick growth in the long run.

I know Dave Ramsey's book and it is on the money - however he is not taking into account the business side of things, such as the money lost while the vehicle is down, while you spend money on repairs.

I am the worst person in the world to pick good used vehicles. And I cannot afford another season of "well, I'll get it done as soon as the truck is out of the shop - again this week."

Sometimes it does pay to buy a truck even if you have to make payments.

Tim

clay duncan
03-29-2007, 08:44 PM
there are plenty of good used vehicles out there. new vehicles can and do break also. it really does not make any sense to buy a $35,000 or more truck to go and mow grass with. i drive a 2000 f-250 that everyone thinks is brand new. remember that new truck is considered a used truck as soon as you sign the dotted line..........

mrusk
03-29-2007, 09:08 PM
What mileage would you recommened to stay under for a domestic 1 ton?

I think what David Ramsey says is good for most people, but makes almost no sense in the business world.

clay duncan
03-29-2007, 09:43 PM
it really all depends on the maintenance and if the truck has been abused or not. 200,000 miles is really not all that uncommon on a well kept vehicle. usually its the automatic transmission that will give you the most trouble and that is why i prefer a stick. that being said i would try and find a 5 or 6 year old truck with 60- 70,000 miles and go and make some money with it......good luck.....

Gravel Rat
03-29-2007, 11:23 PM
People can't even giveaway a truck if it has 200,000 miles or 320,000kms. A 1 ton with that many kilometers. If a truck has more than 125,000 miles 200,000kms on it people usually expect to spend allot in repairs.

In B.C. a truck with 200,000 miles or 320,000kms is considered worn out you may get 3000 dollars at the most for it. A truck with that many miles will probably need a engine rebuild, transmission replaced, a complete brake job.

By the time you dump 10 grand into the truck you could have bought a newer truck. Dumping money into a dead horse doesn't make sense. I know many people that dump thousands into a old truck thinking they are saving money and essentially they are loosing money.

Try find a truck with 100,000 miles then it will last you 100,000 miles or roughly 4 years if you put 25,000 miles on the truck in a year. I know with us here we don't expect to get any more than 187,000 miles out of a truck. Anymore than that then you have a money pit that is breaking down and letting you down.

My 03 F-450 I will keep the truck for 6 years and sell it truck will have about 131,000 miles 210,000kms on it. After that I will see I may keep the truck but I don't expect to get much more than that out of the truck.

clay duncan
03-30-2007, 12:22 AM
People can't even giveaway a truck if it has 200,000 miles or 320,000kms. A 1 ton with that many kilometers. If a truck has more than 125,000 miles 200,000kms on it people usually expect to spend allot in repairs.

In B.C. a truck with 200,000 miles or 320,000kms is considered worn out you may get 3000 dollars at the most for it. A truck with that many miles will probably need a engine rebuild, transmission replaced, a complete brake job.

By the time you dump 10 grand into the truck you could have bought a newer truck. Dumping money into a dead horse doesn't make sense. I know many people that dump thousands into a old truck thinking they are saving money and essentially they are loosing money.

Try find a truck with 100,000 miles then it will last you 100,000 miles or roughly 4 years if you put 25,000 miles on the truck in a year. I know with us here we don't expect to get any more than 187,000 miles out of a truck. Anymore than that then you have a money pit that is breaking down and letting you down.

My 03 F-450 I will keep the truck for 6 years and sell it truck will have about 131,000 miles 210,000kms on it. After that I will see I may keep the truck but I don't expect to get much more than that out of the truck.

hey gravel rat, no disrespect intended, but please re-read my post. i am not saying buy a truck with 200,000 miles on it. my main point is a new truck WILL cost more to own and operate. i am in business to make a profit. (aka) keep as much hard earned money as i can......clay

RedWingsDet
03-30-2007, 12:59 AM
Ill sell you my 00 f350 dully with a dump bed for a good price. It is mint condition, no rust, bed is in excellent shape, which is supprising since most dump beds rust after 3 years.

RedWingsDet
03-30-2007, 01:13 AM
oh and it has under 60k miles

mrusk
03-30-2007, 07:25 AM
Naa i do not want a gasser red wings. What are you looking to buy once you unload the truck?

zz4guy
03-30-2007, 09:43 AM
Don't buy new if you are just starting out. A $30k truck will have high payments each month piled on top of high lawn mower payments that you HAVE to pay. Chances are you will not be able to make those payments each month with your revenue alone. You won't have enough business to make it worth buying new anyway.

Are you handy at all with vehicles? Do you have a place you can work on your vehicles if you have to? If you do then it is a waste of money to buy new. Sure major things like an engine can crap out but that is a risk you take. You could buy 3 or 4 used vehicles for the price of a new one.

Just get a good price and use your common sense. If the truck looks beat... it probably was beat. Don't buy it. I've alwasy bought used and have had good luck with it....

MTR
03-31-2007, 12:51 PM
Oh god, buying used is the way to go, remember u are lawnboy. I have F-150 with 300 I 6 that has been working and making money and showing no sign of letting up, including 2.3 Ranger to run errands and estimate, I do pretty much maintenance myself, so cost of $4-500 payment is none. All profits and saved $ go into funds to grow, not on vehicles. All those guys that run 30-40k spanking new trucks are almost belly up, cause lawn service is not meant for shinny new trucks, cost of vehicle payment and insurance alone will take away your monthly fun at the beach. (I had a competitor who pull his 6x12 with Navigator!, now he is no longer doing this line of work). Remember u have to take care your mowers, blowers, 2 cycle equipmnents, and trailers, and those with gas consumption, plus cutthroat competition, and scoring sun over your new truck? It is not rocket science.:hammerhead:
There are ton and ton of good used trucks ready to be had, look around and save money.

Scag48
04-01-2007, 04:30 AM
Having just run the numbers myself, I've broken it down to a couple of different options.

First, if you can afford to buy new, or slightly newer, go for it. You're right though, the trucks that are maybe a year or so old are basically the price of new, hardly any bargains there, you're better off buying brand new.

Secondly, if you know what you're getting into, vehicle wise, there's nothing wrong with used. We haven't bought a single new truck EVER. I'm on my 3rd truck in 4 years and my dad has bought only used as well. Take for instance the F450 we had. 70K miles and a straight as hell body, that truck would go 200K easy without hardly any maintenance costs other than oil, other fluids, basic PM, etc.. It really depends on what kind of rig you're looking at buying and how well you know the issues that could arise from buying that vehicle.

I've just gone through this process myself. I went and looked at new trucks just for fun and realized that even if I could afford one, it would be a stupid investment. I'm picking up a '95 F150 tomorrow that's pushing 200K miles. I realize this is a higher mileage truck, but I also know that the motor is easily rebuildable for pretty cheap, the ball joints might need to be done pretty soon, the clutch may go out at some point, but other than that, the truck is in really, really good shape. It all comes down to knowledge of the truck you're buying. The more you know about it, the better. That and my buddy works at a Ford dealership as a mechanic, doesn't hurt to have a guy who is a trained technician check out the rig you're going to buy before you buy it :cool2:

Youngbeginner
04-04-2007, 09:21 AM
What mileage would you recommened to stay under for a domestic 1 ton?

I think what David Ramsey says is good for most people, but makes almost no sense in the business world.

It is clear that personal finances and business finances are two different things, BUT the same basic principles still apply. It does not make sense to buy brand new UNLESS you have high cashflow that allows you to pay it off very quickly or completely at once which eliminates interest.

zz4guy
04-04-2007, 10:20 AM
It is clear that personal finances and business finances are two different things, BUT the same basic principles still apply. It does not make sense to buy brand new UNLESS you have high cashflow that allows you to pay it off very quickly or completely at once which eliminates interest.

And if you have a lot of cash flow and are busy 110% of the time it might SAVE you money to get a new one since it will not be in the shop all the time.

mrusk
04-04-2007, 10:28 AM
But on the other hand, writing checks for everything can hurt the cash flow and slow expansion. But we all know their are two ways to skin a cat.

I need to wait and see how my year starts shaping out before i spend any money.

I am going for a certain image for my company. If i am trying to get people to hire my company for 250k +jobs we can not roll up in junkers. But that doesn't mean i am going to buy new.

I just need to see how this year is going to go.

TWUllc
04-04-2007, 11:13 AM
I buy new vehicles, and run them till they die.

McKeeLand
04-04-2007, 12:16 PM
a truck like a F-450 is a very expensive truck to own and maintain. i thought that i would keep my truck to 200k and then sell it. well at 125k, my 2000 F-450 had over $10k in repairs in one year! Ball joints, high pressure oil pump, fuel sending unit, rear axle that was the big one. plus i had painted the dump body 3 times in 5 years. tires are like $250 a pop, brakes are expensive. the point is that the truck didn't cost me a dime up until around 60k. then it needs tires, brakes, ball joints, paint job on the bed. i have come the realization that its is better flip them every 3-4 years and get out of them. payments suck, but try forking out $10k and still sending mr ford a check for his wonderful truck while its sitting in the shop for a month. if it is a daily driver that will get used every day i say go new or used with a warranty.

zz4guy
04-04-2007, 12:29 PM
a truck like a F-450 is a very expensive truck to own and maintain. i thought that i would keep my truck to 200k and then sell it. well at 125k, my 2000 F-450 had over $10k in repairs in one year! Ball joints, high pressure oil pump, fuel sending unit, rear axle that was the big one. plus i had painted the dump body 3 times in 5 years. tires are like $250 a pop, brakes are expensive. the point is that the truck didn't cost me a dime up until around 60k. then it needs tires, brakes, ball joints, paint job on the bed. i have come the realization that its is better flip them every 3-4 years and get out of them. payments suck, but try forking out $10k and still sending mr ford a check for his wonderful truck while its sitting in the shop for a month. if it is a daily driver that will get used every day i say go new or used with a warranty.

Good point. You can spend a lot in repairs. I look for trucks that have had a lot of these "small" repairs done. IE the truck is on its second life. For example the truck I just bought had new exaust, brakes, good tires, new alternator, rebuilt 4WD box, new front suspension parts, etc. The truck has 245k miles so just about everything besides the engine/trans is new. If you buy something with 112k it is likely to be on its original parts, which sure wont last another 100k. Good luck.

mrusk
04-04-2007, 03:37 PM
a truck like a F-450 is a very expensive truck to own and maintain. i thought that i would keep my truck to 200k and then sell it. well at 125k, my 2000 F-450 had over $10k in repairs in one year! Ball joints, high pressure oil pump, fuel sending unit, rear axle that was the big one. plus i had painted the dump body 3 times in 5 years. tires are like $250 a pop, brakes are expensive. the point is that the truck didn't cost me a dime up until around 60k. then it needs tires, brakes, ball joints, paint job on the bed. i have come the realization that its is better flip them every 3-4 years and get out of them. payments suck, but try forking out $10k and still sending mr ford a check for his wonderful truck while its sitting in the shop for a month. if it is a daily driver that will get used every day i say go new or used with a warranty.


Thats what i am afraid of. If i go for a 1-2 ton truck i will not buy used. These trucks live a hard life!!

I am hoping to go for a 33k gvw truck with a hook lift set up. I just need to see how it goes with the employees i have and make sure they are smart enough to get the CDL! I do not want to be depended on myself to drive the truck. For a 33k truck i will def go used. And i should have no proablem with that.