Why are so many LCO's Solo?

[Ecoscape01]

I was just reading another thread about start-time/end-time and Wells mentioned that an LCO Owner's job is primarily to sell the business. This made me think. I've seen lots of profiles on here of guys and gals who have been at this a while and remain solo. So what's the reason? Just wanted to get everyone's take on it.

[Mr Priceless]

mainly because many people (like myself) believe that your business is more efficient and has a larger profit margin if you remain solo. Quite a few people mentioned that they usually wouldn't grow for too many headaches with employees constantly quitting, insurance, management, etc.

[Woody82986]

I haven't ever really wanted to deal with the headaches thatcome along with hiring more people to work. In my mind, I can keep it much more simple if I stay solo. I also know without a doubt that the quality is there when I do the work myself, and it just adds one more thing to wonder about whn I hire someone to do the work for me.

[lqmustang]

I am solo. I've often thought about going bigger, but the more I think about it tho I have no desire to increase much beyond where I am now. I believe in the lawn care business, you do your best to stay small, or go real big. That area in between is just a killer. You have to deal with employees tearing up your equipment. You have to deal with payroll, which also includes keeping track of and paying more taxes plus workers comp. Not to mention solo you can often get by working out of your home. Add some employees and you will outgrow that real fast and end up paying for a shop, whether that be renting or building. And for all the headaches of having a few employees, the reward to me isn't worth it. If you double your gross with that extra crew, you sure are not doubling your net after all the expenses associated with that crew.

That is just my opinion, and I'm sure others may disagree, but that is why I plan on staying where I am now, and I also plan on retiring in another 15 years. :)

[martinfan06]

Well depens on how big, I would like to one day have a max of 2 rigs on the road 1 being run by me and 1 beign ran by my partner. Trusting unproven people with your business is really scary, just not as many good people left anymore good help is harder than ever to find. IMO

[daveintoledo]

while there are many arguments for both sides of the solo operation, if a company isnt growing, it becomes stagnant......

a business must grow and hire employees, and all the responsibility included with that to reach its full potential......

mowing at 60 years old doesnt sound so appealing to me... i think a solo op is a good place to start.... but you need to expand...

many here have already expanded and then went back to being solo...... i guess its not for every one,

for me this endeavor is a capital building program for future investment.... i have to grow......:usflag:

[YardPro]

this will probably make a lot of people mad, but i think the reason most stay solo is because they do not have the skills it takes to run a large business. The biggest hurdle is getting the first two employees...

as for the headaches, they come with rewards... you get hurt or sick, the business will still run itself and you draw a paycheck. You take two weeks off, the business still runs and you get a paycheck... you will also have something that is worth something that you can sell... it will have equity.

as daveintoledo says, busting your hump at 60 will not be possible.

[daveintoledo]

this will probably make a lot of people mad, but i think the reason most stay solo is because they do not have the skills it takes to run a large business. The biggest hurdle is getting the first two employees...

as for the headaches, they come with rewards... you get hurt or sick, the business will still run itself and you draw a paycheck. You take two weeks off, the business still runs and you get a paycheck... you will also have something that is worth something that you can sell... it will have equity.

as daveintoledo says, busting your hump at 60 will not be possible.

pretty much sums it up.....

[lqmustang]

this will probably make a lot of people mad, but i think the reason most stay solo is because they do not have the skills it takes to run a large business.

I thought about saying that as well. I worked in various stages of management in my previous life. From retail store level management to multi state regional management. I don't want to deal with employees anymore. I really like the simplicity of doing business for myself, by myself. There is no right or wrong way tho.

[lawnguyland]

Reason for solo is employees= headaches. Stay solo or go big.

That being said, if I get hurt it's down to the corner to get me some workers!

I might do the employee thing again, but I love to be Hans Solo for now.

I can't deal with other people's BS, especially when I can't undersand the language!

[supercuts]

this will probably make a lot of people mad, but i think the reason most stay solo is because they do not have the skills it takes to run a large business. The biggest hurdle is getting the first two employees...

as for the headaches, they come with rewards... you get hurt or sick, the business will still run itself and you draw a paycheck. You take two weeks off, the business still runs and you get a paycheck... you will also have something that is worth something that you can sell... it will have equity.

as daveintoledo says, busting your hump at 60 will not be possible.

gonna have to agree, i didnt want to grow until this year so i can "catch up" and get the business to where i wanted it, hopefully this year i can build up a 50% increase in work with new employees. there are pros and cons to staying solo, for me the pros out weigh the cons. neither is right or wrong it just depends on the person.

[Duekster]

One way the Solo's stay profitable is because they are doing the work themselves and as a result they are part of the labor cost. Nothing wrong with that but one day they will get older. I don't want to be on a mower at the age of 60. I would not mind still working at 60. In fact I will likely work at some level until I die. I just don't want it to be on a mower or a ladder.

[Wells]

i think the reason most stay solo is because they do not have the skills it takes to run a large business.

I believe there is a lot of truth to this statement, anybody with a mower and 50 cents in his pocket can start a lawn care business and call himself a business owner but to actually grow that business beyond a solo operation takes management skills that many people just don't posses.

Running a business beyond a solo operation is a hugh pain in the neck, you've got to hire employees and trust them do give your clients the same quality of service that you would provide meanwhile hoping they will show up each day. Employees are harder on your equipment because they just don't care the same way you would so your repair costs increase. You have payroll to deal with every two weeks and quarterly payroll taxes to file & pay every 3-months. You're liability insurance rates increase with employees and your now required to pay into workman's comp, plus you have the added expense of setting up another truck, trailer and additional equipment.

You go from juggling just one ball per day to juggling 5 or 6 balls and I think many people just can't take the added stress that comes with business expansion so they find themselves going back to a solo operation or staying a solo operator.

[txgrassguy]

One of the facets of expanding a business is labor, however, it is much more intrinsic than simply identifying one trait to the problem.
Attitude, perception, ability, knowledge (agronomic and business) and commitment are larger pieces of why some LCO's stay solo.
A question I get from some of my students pretty much sums all of this up.
In response to "How do you grow" and "What does it take to succeed in the turf industry" in my mind are two sides of the same question.
My attitude and perception is that I am no longer self employed, I am the CEO/CFO of a growing business.
I bolster my ability by committing to expanding my knowledge which in turns increases my skill set. Then through delegation of responsibilities and training do my employees then become more apt.
A particular trait I have noticed with labor and retention is that once the commitment is made towards training the employees, retention really isn't a problem. Appropriate pre-employment interviewing will ordinarily eliminate suspect candidates. As a result the existing employees understand my commitment to the business and by delegating responsibilities to my employees a sense of empowerment ensues which drives their motivation for better work and greatly diminishes turn over.
I choose to pursue and address the challenges associated with growing a business and have elucidated my reasons accordingly.
With out knowing more about solo operations I can only comment upon my experiences after seventeen years in this industry.

[Az Gardener]

I would love to comment but I am not a solo so I could only offer speculation to why there are so many solo operators out there.

I would like to see some more in depth reasoning besides employees are a hassle. Like its not a hassle to cut grass every waking hour from mid April till late Sept.

I hired my first employees because I wanted to make more money and was willing to take the risk involved. I continue because it is a challenge and I enjoy being challenged.

Making grass green and flowers bloom just wasn't a challenge for me anymore. I didn't get that great feeling of a job well done any more. I do get that feeling when I see my employees learning, getting better, seeing their lives improve. That is a great feeling.

[martinfan06]

Very good points and well said post^^^.

[garrettlawn]

Well good thing we are planning on getting BIG. Staying small just will not cut it for me. I am used to big numbers and I want to see them. Weather I am making them or the business is spending them lol.
Partnership:
Year1 : Me and Partner Mow 4 days a week and do small mulch/landscape/irrigation/etc... on Fridays or weekends. (Also gives a day or two for rain and can still get yards mowed. 40-50 accounts)
Year2 : Me running a landscape truck during the week and handeling that part of the business. Partner picking up about 20+ more yards and busting rump with another employee to mow 60+ accounts a week. Hopefully keep a landscape rig busy 3-4 days out of the week then help finish up mowing accounts if needed.
Year3 : Add one more employee to each crew. 3 mowing 3 landscaping and keep busy 6 days a week for the 28 week mowing season.

Thats the business plan and I am gonna bust my @$$ to make it happen. Year after maybe expand to 3 rigs... idk. We will see when the time comes. I might already have 4 or 5 by then.

[STRINGALATION]

I definetly see everyones thinking with a solo making more money.
I started as a solo landscaper with the occasional cut and now in my third year at this point i do my own cuts but i have some scaping on the table that require laborers and subbing, I love it!!!! I personally like the idea and plan of being a major landscaping factor in my area as well as a lawn care factor. but really looking to commercial and prime residential lawn care. i see solos with big rigs but they have the lions share that was ok at first but i have big dreams in full color and 3d.

[Your Lawn First]

TXGRASSGUY very well said. I couldnt agree more. I also think a lot of people get scared and they really don't have the knowledge of how to do it. Training and screening of employees and you will not have any problems if you know what you are doing that is.

[bonerigo.1]

As someone said, the first two employees are the hardest. I am at that point and I see that once I overcome that hurdle and have qualified personnel I will be able to grow tremendously.
The payroll is super easy. I pay $48 dollars a week and make one phonecall to paychex. They pay my taxes and send me the filled out paperwork for the quarterly's.
The hardest headache to overcome is somewhere between having enough work to keep two full timers busy, listening to the newest complaint about money (when they could have worked the past 4 Saturdays), and having the workers show up.
Once we overcome our issue with not having qualified employees we will be able to focus on sales and complete customer satisfaction.

[PatriotLandscape]

My business advisor always says "Your not in business unless you have employees you have only created a job for yourself"

No growth means no value. You can only move two ways in business up or down (stagnent is down).

We have 6 employees and it is great I manage them and they do the hard work and I make the customers happy.

[HOOLIE]

I would like to see some more in depth reasoning besides employees are a hassle. Like its not a hassle to cut grass every waking hour from mid April till late Sept.

I hired my first employees because I wanted to make more money and was willing to take the risk involved. I continue because it is a challenge and I enjoy being challenged.

Making grass green and flowers bloom just wasn't a challenge for me anymore. I didn't get that great feeling of a job well done any more. I do get that feeling when I see my employees learning, getting better, seeing their lives improve. That is a great feeling.

I don't normally quote off a 3 month old thread, but it's an interesting thread. I'd have to say, it's not the hassles of having employees so much as it's the lack of management skills that keeps many guys solo. Managing and dealing with employees is something that is learned. Sure it comes naturally to some people, but for most of us it's something that has to be learned, either through management training or just trial and error.

Also, when you have that first employee or two, it's a strange dynamic...you're their boss but at the same time likely you're working alongside them all day. Not like you can come out of your office, lay down the law, and retreat into hiding. You have to be in charge and yet at the same time be able to work alongside them.

[jbone]

In my area I have noticed a lot of people are small timers, in the business just to make a few bucks to help their full time jobs. I cant imagine what would happen (God forbid) if you were to be seriously hurt, even for a short period of time. If being a solo LCO is all you do say good bye to your customers! Other than that management would have to be the biggest reason. And its not just management of the business itself, but the people too. if you do not motivate your employees to come to work, you do not teach them anything, you pay them crap and make it clear to them that its a dead end job, then they will find somewhere else that pays them as much if not more money to do less back breaking work. As a manager you are also a "leader" you get your job done through people, and without the skills to work with them you cannot get the job done and you fail.

[zz4guy]

How about LOW RETURN ON INVESTMENT!

When you consider it costs at least 250% times what an employee is paid to employ them it gets real hard to justify a low skilled employee. In order for it to be profitable to have them work you NEED to keep them busy 100% of the time hence thats where the headaches come in...

100% mached social security, medicade, medicare among other BS expenses and regulations are MANDATORY curtesy of our government.

And then there are the other expenses like insurance and any healthcare or savings plans.

It's really amazing that anybody can afford to hire an employee in my opinion.

[grasscutterman]

I am solo once again because basically the work ethic in this country is too poor and I just could not deal with the poor work. I went through a dozen helpers and not one gave me any effort. It did not matter how much I paid or how nice I was. I was willing to train anyone who would just hussle a little. By placing an ad in the paper it opened the door for every drug addict and drunk to come calling.They worked slow and just did a really bad job. My complaint was up 50%. Yards that I worked on for several years started to look like crap, and in addition the workers were always asking for advance in pays, rides somewhere else, and the list goes on. In the end, I was getting more and more frustrated, my clients were getting more ticked off, so I downsized. I found that I now make almost the same amount of money have less clients with no helper than having more with one. I kept clients who had been with me from the get go and who paid on time.

So this why I fly solo and I really believe that our country is headed for trouble. No one wants to work and most are out to rip you off.

[hess]

More Money in My Pocket, You always know the job is done right don't have to worry if the guy will show up for work.

[bohiaa]

mainly because many people (like myself) believe that your business is more efficient and has a larger profit margin if you remain solo. Quite a few people mentioned that they usually wouldn't grow for too many headaches with employees constantly quitting, insurance, management, etc.

this is wrong thinking, dont know how many of you went to college, "school"

[kdurkee]

One that has all his own equipment and workers that dont and we provide the trailer and mowers and also one that works with me?



while there are many arguments for both sides of the solo operation, if a company isnt growing, it becomes stagnant......

a business must grow and hire employees, and all the responsibility included with that to reach its full potential......

mowing at 60 years old doesnt sound so appealing to me... i think a solo op is a good place to start.... but you need to expand...

many here have already expanded and then went back to being solo...... i guess its not for every one,

for me this endeavor is a capital building program for future investment.... i have to grow......:usflag:

[hess]

this is wrong thinking, dont know how many of you went to college, "school" Well let's see i went so school and may be it takes a little more time to to expand the business to where you can pay the people a decent income and your not sitting with your pockets empty. Another thing it's hard to find help that wants to learn and do the job right and your not looking for help every week.

[Sandgropher]

It seems many solos have had employees in the past and are not interested in the headaches anymore .:)

[bohiaa]

Well let's see i went so school and may be it takes a little more time to to expand the business to where you can pay the people a decent income and your not sitting with your pockets empty. Another thing it's hard to find help that wants to learn and do the job right and your not looking for help every week.

Its very simple it's called economics

after about 2 years of it you will get the ideal

[nobagger]

Like many have said and I agree, stay small or go big. I really dont think there is an "in between" in this industry and if there is its got to be killing you somewhere. I think the key is finding that one guy who you can trust with 60k of equipment rolling down the road. Like some one said before, what if you get hurt or you want to go on a vacation? This season I hired the right guys and one who been with me for a few years so were not huge but in the event something does happen things will be covered.

[Tim Wright]

I am trying to get out of being solo, but man it is tough.

You really need a bank role just to cover payroll while you wait for clients to pay up. Then there is the extra equipment & related expenses of operation, and then the governments harrassments.

Never the less, I think that once you get past that first two or three employees that others have mentioned, it gets easier again, but I could be wrong.

Getting guys to work well, consistantly, and desire to grow with the business is the hard part. Most everyone either wants to get paid from day one, what it takes you years to get paid, or they want to get paid for doing nothing except screwing you over and getting your clients mad at you.

I don't just want to own my own job with the hassles of business. If I am going to be in business I want to have IT working for me. But it is a struggle getting there.

Tim

[Stillwater]

since 79 I have done it all, but from my experience this business of employess costing you money or eating your profits is ******ed. employess make you money, oh sure they can break something, not show up or walk off the job so what if you run a tight ship you absorb this crap and learn from it. I am not saying it is easy it is hard sometimes. but the bottom line is their are 2 types of guys, guys that want more from themselves and sets their goals higher and those that don't for many valid reasons known only to themselves. I will tell you a common reason or rationale is fear, some people fear the unknown. other people thrive on it. All you got to do is ask yourselves what kind of guy are you?

[VelocityLawncareService]

I have been doin this lawncare buisness on the side for 2 years now. I started out with a buddy and it was supposed to be half and half just didint work out. so now Im on my own and i like it if i ever need help i have a few good high schoolers who dont mind pitching in when time gets tight!