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View Full Version : grade of gas in blowers


bobcatnj
03-29-2007, 07:41 PM
what grade of gas(reg,premium) do you run in your blowers/trimmers? i have been using regular. do you get better performance or longer life of the machine with premium?

dodgeguy99
03-29-2007, 07:57 PM
i use 89 octane because thats what echo recomends on there bottle of 2 stroke oil

mcwlandscaping
03-29-2007, 07:58 PM
Reg. in everything

Chop Stuff Up
03-29-2007, 07:59 PM
89 on any 2 stroke

lawnboy dan
03-29-2007, 08:30 PM
87 in everything

ed2hess
03-29-2007, 08:35 PM
The only down side of 87 is there might be a little more carbon buildup on rings and in exhaust ports. We no longer bother to get 89 unless we are in a very hot part of the year and then 89 seems to start better.

Idealtim
03-29-2007, 08:43 PM
Regular, period. You are in fact wasteing your money putting high test in 2 stroke equipment or any small engine. It may actually shorten the life of the stuff because of the higher operating temps. The only thing that you should put high test in is performance cars purely because the engines have been tuned to run different. And besides, it doesn't give ANY more power to small engines, just a hotter cumbustion.

bigtex
03-29-2007, 08:58 PM
Idealtim Gut It Right. The Higher Octane Makes It Run Hotter. Unnecessary. (plus Its To F***** Expesive) $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

Lynden-Jeff
03-29-2007, 09:04 PM
Regular, period. You are in fact wasteing your money putting high test in 2 stroke equipment or any small engine. It may actually shorten the life of the stuff because of the higher operating temps. The only thing that you should put high test in is performance cars purely because the engines have been tuned to run different. And besides, it doesn't give ANY more power to small engines, just a hotter cumbustion.

Echo says RIGHT ON THE BOTTLE to use 89 octane. Don't you think they would know? "doesn't give ANY more power to small engines, just a hotter cumbustion" That is wrong. Higher octane = higher compression = more power. Of course there will be more heat with power but these engines are capable of it.The compression is so high in 2 stroke you are likely to get misfiring with 87, HENCE the recommendation of 89. I belive you also blow your warrenty if you use 87.

dcondon
03-29-2007, 09:06 PM
87 will be just fine for you.:)

Lynch & Sons Landscaping
03-29-2007, 09:32 PM
Umm..... The advice is correct, but the reasoning is dead wrong.....
Mid-Grade (89) or Premium (93) does not burn hotter or colder..... The higher the octant the slower burn and therefore the higher resistance to spark-knock.... If an engine is high compression then it requires the higher octanes.. Outside temp does have an affect on an engine that is borderline to running 87 vs. 89 for example.... If it is that borderline, then you should be running the higher grade anyways....

If the manual says 87 that is what you run.. The compression ratio amongst other things dictates what octane you require.... If it says 89 then you run 89...
Very basic... For best performance, life, etc... In any engine, no matter car or Line-Trimmer, follow the manufacturers reccomendations.. They built it and paid alot of people alot of $$$$$$$ to know this stuff... Follow their advice!!

Herrick
03-29-2007, 09:40 PM
Dealer told me when I bought my new Stihl stuff to run 89 or higher, and to stay away from ethenol... He had been told this the previous day at a Stihl class he was attending by Stihl... Good enough for me.

Lynch & Sons Landscaping
03-29-2007, 09:45 PM
Yes... All Mixed Fuel (Ethynol, etc..) is bad... It is a way to be "Enviro-Friendly".... However, although some engines can handle it you always lose efficiency... If the engine was meant to run on the stuff, they would sell it pure... Put 87 (10% Ethy) in your car and your fuel economy goes down.. It's a fact..

Run what the book says.. Most yard equip. should be run on 89, they push the compression ratio's close to 10:1, 89 helps resist the spark knock...

Valve overlap has a huge affect on the required fuel as well as compression ratio. However, with a mild overlap 10.2 requires premium. No overlap, around 10:1.... In cars/trucks, variable valve timing has allowed the rule to go "slightly" out the window, but for the rudementory equipment we are running, it is accurate as could be.

If you have a 9:1 motor, and you run 93 Octane, your throwing money down the drain.. Run 87, and send me the difference please...

lawnman_scott
03-29-2007, 09:59 PM
I belive you also blow your warrenty if you use 87.I wouldnt worry about that though.

barnard
03-29-2007, 11:02 PM
Umm..... The advice is correct, but the reasoning is dead wrong.....
Mid-Grade (89) or Premium (93) does not burn hotter or colder..... The higher the octant the slower burn and therefore the higher resistance to spark-knock.... If an engine is high compression then it requires the higher octanes.. Outside temp does have an affect on an engine that is borderline to running 87 vs. 89 for example.... If it is that borderline, then you should be running the higher grade anyways....

If the manual says 87 that is what you run.. The compression ratio amongst other things dictates what octane you require.... If it says 89 then you run 89...
Very basic... For best performance, life, etc... In any engine, no matter car or Line-Trimmer, follow the manufacturers reccomendations.. They built it and paid alot of people alot of $$$$$$$ to know this stuff... Follow their advice!!
It's nice to see a reply from someone who actually knows what an octane rating means

fiveoboy01
03-29-2007, 11:10 PM
"doesn't give ANY more power to small engines, just a hotter cumbustion" That is wrong. Higher octane = higher compression = more power.

Completely and utterly wrong. The octane of the fuel has absolutely nothing to do with the compression ratio of the engine, which does not change regardless of what fuel you feed it.

Octane rating is simply a measure of "knock" or detonation resistance.

A higher octane fuel will burn more slowly and has less BTUs than a lower octane fuel. The result can be LESS power in the wrong motor. When I was drag racing, I used the lowest octane fuel I could while still preventing detonation. Higher octane ratings above and beyond that simply made less power.

Off that soapbox, I've always used 87 in everything, period. Due to the price of gas and the amount I use, I'm saving where I can. I've never had a failure in any 2-stroke equipment that I could attribute to running the low-grade unleaded fuel.

Mowman16
03-29-2007, 11:12 PM
Hey Lynch & Sons, is that you? is that a relative of yours with the funeral home in Walled Lake? :waving: Send me a PM :)

Alpha01
03-29-2007, 11:19 PM
Why waste your money. 87 Gits-r-done

NewHorizon's Land
03-29-2007, 11:56 PM
93 in STHIL from STHIL.

causalitist
03-30-2007, 12:54 AM
actually, high octane gas has LESS power. thats a fact. ask any chemist.

it is harder to light, and contains less power per unit of volume.
the ONLY thing it is good for is stopping predetonation in high compression engines. the high compression being what increases power, and the high octane ALLOWING the high compression.

other than the octane rating, its no different.. so if you do not have a high compression engine, its worse to use high octane gas. its not like its more pure or anything, just has higher octane so its a tad harder to light.

causalitist
03-30-2007, 01:07 AM
if you use low octane in a modern high performance car designed for high octane, the power will reduce, but only because the computer richens the fuel mix and ******s the timing to stop the fuel from igniting to soon. not because low octane has low power.

so the guys that are saying to use what the manufacturer calls for, know what they are saying.

Lynden-Jeff
03-30-2007, 01:20 AM
Completely and utterly wrong. The octane of the fuel has absolutely nothing to do with the compression ratio of the engine, which does not change regardless of what fuel you feed it.

Octane rating is simply a measure of "knock" or detonation resistance.

A higher octane fuel will burn more slowly and has less BTUs than a lower octane fuel. The result can be LESS power in the wrong motor. When I was drag racing, I used the lowest octane fuel I could while still preventing detonation. Higher octane ratings above and beyond that simply made less power.

Off that soapbox, I've always used 87 in everything, period. Due to the price of gas and the amount I use, I'm saving where I can. I've never had a failure in any 2-stroke equipment that I could attribute to running the low-grade unleaded fuel.


I never said anything about it affecting compression ratio, or at least I didn't mean to. I was trying to say you will have LESS power if your suffering from pre-detonation. Now higher octane will help prevent that. Now really we are talking minimal difference however when I run 87 I NOTICE a difference. Especially when you get a bad bought of gas, it just runs like crap. And really by going 87 or 89 your saving what, a BUCK? You aren't going to break the bank. Welcome to 2 stroke, HIGH COMPRESSION engines, 89 may not give you more power, but at least it will run properly. No wonder so many people whine about 2 stroke stuff crapping out after a year when they don't take proper care.

fiveoboy01
03-30-2007, 01:29 AM
OK, well maybe you mis-typed what you meant. I just read it at face value.

I have several pieces of 2-stroke equipment which are 5 or more years older and have not been touched except for the plugs and air filter changes. And they've been run on 87 since day one.

A buck is a buck, and when you total the number of gallons of gas I used last season, it equaled a lot of money saved. Enough to easily buy a couple new pieces of 2-stroke equipment. But I didn't need to anyways, cause nothing of mine blew up except for one weedeater which died because I was too stupid to remember to put oil in the gas can before filling it up.

Lynden-Jeff
03-30-2007, 01:33 AM
After some further research, I have found some good reading material:

" Can I use 87 octane or lower grade fuel ?"

"No, use only fresh gasoline with a minimum octane rating of 89 through 93 (mid-grade to premium) at all times. The gasoline suppliers blend mid-grade and premium gasoline with greater amounts of detergents and anti-oxidizing additives to keep the engines clean. Lack of these detergents and additives in a 2-stroke engine will cause a heavy build-up of varnish and gum deposits on the piston surface and ring grooves. Regular unleaded 87 octane or lower gasoline may not contain enough of the detergent additives that are needed in a 2-stroke engine to keep varnish, gum, and tar deposits from forming. Use of 87 octane fuel may shorten the life of the engine."

Hopefully that will help some one.

Lynden-Jeff
03-30-2007, 01:34 AM
OK, well maybe you mis-typed what you meant. I just read it at face value.

I have several pieces of 2-stroke equipment which are 5 or more years older and have not been touched except for the plugs and air filter changes. And they've been run on 87 since day one.

A buck is a buck, and when you total the number of gallons of gas I used last season, it equaled a lot of money saved. Enough to easily buy a couple new pieces of 2-stroke equipment. But I didn't need to anyways, cause nothing of mine blew up except for one weedeater which died because I was too stupid to remember to put oil in the gas can before filling it up.

Im sure they will run fine on 87, but the money you saved of gas, could have been wasted on pre-mature equiptment failure. Im sure in the end is 6 in one half a dozen the other.

Cheers
Jeff

Gbug
03-30-2007, 01:44 AM
I'll throw this out there....will premium help prevent the 2 cycle stuff from gumming up? After all, the main selling point of Shell VPower is that it cleans your engine while you drive. I know they're talking about cars, but same concept right?...correct me if Im wrong.

DLCS
03-30-2007, 03:19 AM
I run 87 in everything. I use Echo oil too. Never in ten years of being in business have i ever had any engine failure in a piece of 2 stroke equipment.

Sammy
03-30-2007, 04:30 AM
89 octane for the 2-cycle equipment.
87 in the mowers.

Turfcutters Plus
03-30-2007, 03:02 PM
Im sure they will run fine on 87, but the money you saved of gas, could have been wasted on pre-mature equiptment failure. Im sure in the end is 6 in one half a dozen the other.

Cheers
Jeff
Ditto my friend!I'm solo,don't have time for "too weak" 87 0ctane fuel.I cherish my arms too much!!!Thanks for all this great info.It's time to kick aaaazzzzzzzz boys!Go go go speed racer..........:weightlifter:

mowtech
03-30-2007, 03:37 PM
After some further research, I have found some good reading material:

" Can I use 87 octane or lower grade fuel ?"

"No, use only fresh gasoline with a minimum octane rating of 89 through 93 (mid-grade to premium) at all times. The gasoline suppliers blend mid-grade and premium gasoline with greater amounts of detergents and anti-oxidizing additives to keep the engines clean. Lack of these detergents and additives in a 2-stroke engine will cause a heavy build-up of varnish and gum deposits on the piston surface and ring grooves. Regular unleaded 87 octane or lower gasoline may not contain enough of the detergent additives that are needed in a 2-stroke engine to keep varnish, gum, and tar deposits from forming. Use of 87 octane fuel may shorten the life of the engine."

Hopefully that will help some one.


I've stated this before: I believe Echo is wrong. Higher Octane gasolines do not contain more detergents than regular gasoline. Go to any of the gasoline brand's web sites and you will see they make no such claim. All gasolines are required to have high levels of detergents to keep the fule system clean of modern fuel injected engines. See the following site of the Federal Trade Commision on octane:

http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/autos/octane.htm

Look particularly at the answer to the question "Will higher octane gasoline clean your engine better?"

Herrick
03-30-2007, 03:45 PM
Higher octane levels may not contain more detergents, but different brands do.

http://www.toptiergas.com/

ProStreetCamaro
03-30-2007, 05:47 PM
Regular, period. You are in fact wasteing your money putting high test in 2 stroke equipment or any small engine. It may actually shorten the life of the stuff because of the higher operating temps. The only thing that you should put high test in is performance cars purely because the engines have been tuned to run different. And besides, it doesn't give ANY more power to small engines, just a hotter cumbustion.



Ummmm no your wrong. You obviously have no clue how an engine works do you? It has to do with compression and not how an engine is tuned. You cant take an engine with a compression of 10:1 and make it run right on regular gas. You also think higher octane burns hotter? Wrong again it does not burn hotter. The higher the octane the LESS volatile the fuel is which is why higher compression engines need higher octane fuels so the fuel doesnt detonate early (better known as pinging). Pinging in 2 cycle engines is the worst thing you can do to the engine because it doesnt use bearings so the crank and the rod takes all the beating. This is the reason they say to run 89 octane in 2 cycle engines. ;)


Example: My 1999 SS Camaro has a compression ratio of over 10:1 so I must use premium or else the computer will ****** the timing and richen the fuel mixture which will give me less power and bad fuel mileage.

My 1976 Camaro has a 383 stroker motor with 13.5:1 compression so I run 110 octane leaded race fuel in it to prevent detonation.

MikeLT1Z28
03-30-2007, 06:27 PM
i think we should convert all of them over to alcohol.. that's what we use in the dragster. just like a lot of Jr dragsters and go-karts that run it. wonder if it can mix with oil.

General Landscaping
03-30-2007, 06:40 PM
I'm gonna do an experiment.

I'm running 87 in everything. When something has a engine failure; I'll post back and warn everyone of the dangers of regular unleaded.

Now take a deep breath and hold it, until I post back saying something blew a rod.

causalitist
04-02-2007, 12:28 AM
i dont buy the whole low varnish/clean fuel thing.. they are 2 stroke, we are burning mass quantities of oil in these things. take good clean gas with little varnish building qualities and add oil to it.. it will cause all kinds of diposits and oil goo everywhere.

i would like to argue that the type of oil you add has more to do with deposites than the gas ever will. wayy more.
because i think this, i use synthetic 100:1 2-stroke oil. ... (it's meant for 100:1, i didnt just decide to use less oil)

Metro Lawn
04-02-2007, 12:37 AM
The fuel isn't the answer. I found that using a better 2 cycle oil has given us the best performance results. I quit using basic 2 cycle and went to Amsoil 100:1 premix (about $8 a quart) treats 32 gallons of gas and can be used in any machine regardless of mix ratios. The machines run cooler, don't smoke, and don't carbon up. I have some with 3 seasons on the same plugs. This has been the biggest thing I have found to help the 2 stroke equipment.

ed2hess
04-02-2007, 07:48 PM
Im sure they will run fine on 87, but the money you saved of gas, could have been wasted on pre-mature equiptment failure. Im sure in the end is 6 in one half a dozen the other.

Cheers
Jeff

The field experience says that Echo will run just fine on 87...don't know about other brands. I clean the ports yearly check my rings ane they are darn clean on units that have run many many hours. The only main reason we dont' run 89 it we don't want to reinsert the credit card back in after gassing all other equipment and most stations won't allow you to reinsert a second time so you would have to carry a second credit card to get the 89..

ProStreetCamaro
04-02-2007, 10:48 PM
I'm gonna do an experiment.

I'm running 87 in everything. When something has a engine failure; I'll post back and warn everyone of the dangers of regular unleaded.

Now take a deep breath and hold it, until I post back saying something blew a rod.


We had a blower kick the bucket from detonation from 87. It pounded the piston and rod till the rod finally gave way. Took less than a year for it to blow and our friend covered it under warranty. Fradan may just have higher compression than other brands. Once he fixed it and we ran 89 in it we never had another problem. As a matter of fact we loved that darn blower. To bad it got stollen. :hammerhead:

causalitist
04-03-2007, 01:54 AM
The fuel isn't the answer. I found that using a better 2 cycle oil has given us the best performance results. I quit using basic 2 cycle and went to Amsoil 100:1 premix (about $8 a quart) treats 32 gallons of gas and can be used in any machine regardless of mix ratios. The machines run cooler, don't smoke, and don't carbon up. I have some with 3 seasons on the same plugs. This has been the biggest thing I have found to help the 2 stroke equipment.

ya man.. good stuff

Scag48
04-03-2007, 02:34 AM
Never had a problem with 87 in 2 cycle stuff. Higher octane only really helps against detonation and lowers the overall operating temperatures inside the combustion chamber. It's hard to say if the higher octane fuels actually clean better or not, I have my doubts, but who really knows for sure.

Soupy
04-03-2007, 02:54 AM
The fuel isn't the answer. I found that using a better 2 cycle oil has given us the best performance results. I quit using basic 2 cycle and went to Amsoil 100:1 premix (about $8 a quart) treats 32 gallons of gas and can be used in any machine regardless of mix ratios. The machines run cooler, don't smoke, and don't carbon up. I have some with 3 seasons on the same plugs. This has been the biggest thing I have found to help the 2 stroke equipment.


Amsoil recommends 80:1 in extreme use such as commercial 2 cycle applications. Especially if used in dusty environments. I see it all the time were guys are running the 100:1 but after you read past the marketing hype you will see that we all should be running 80:1.