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rainsofthouston
03-30-2007, 06:11 AM
Has anyone had any tough luck installing Hunter SRV valve? I've been using them, but a friend and competitor of mine warned me against using them and swears by Rainbird valves only. But with a $6 price difference per unit, it seems harder to stay competitive and still make a profit.

Remote Pigtails
03-30-2007, 07:32 AM
Terrible valve. SRV stands for sh-tty residential valve. You get what you pay for. Buy DV's with flow controls. Hunter makes some good products but they have a low end line that only Orbit would be proud of.

SprinklerGuy
03-30-2007, 08:10 AM
Tell us how you really feel

When I was at the Hunter Campus 6 years ago...they said the only difference between the SRV and the PGV was the material they used to mold the valves....that may or may not be true still...

I use the PGV and have had very few problems .... I used to use the SRV and had some problems with it.....it isn't complete and total sh*t if you ask me...but it isn't a DV valve..

If the difference between you making a profit and not making a profit is the $6 you would spend extra on valves......you have bigger problems.

Even if the job used 25 valves and the difference in price was $10 per valve.....you should still be competitive with the additional $250 yes?

Remote Pigtails
03-30-2007, 08:20 AM
I agree with you Tony. That's how I feel. I've never understood the difficulty in selling good products. Once your selling is about price you are on a slow spiral to being out of business.

DanaMac
03-30-2007, 08:29 AM
After doing primarily repairs and service since 1995, the Rainbird DV is easily the most reliable valve I have seen. It is the most installed valve in our area, and the one I work on the least. Main problem would be weeping, but it is usually caused by something damaging the diaphragm. Very rarely do I find a bad solenoid. If a client calls up saying they have a stuck valve, I know it's gotta be something other than a DV.

Critical Care
03-30-2007, 09:29 AM
I use the PGV valves and have never had problems with them. Does that mean that I could go down to an SRV and have the same luck? I'd rather not try.

I also use DV valves, but in the early days before I knew diddly squat about irrigation I installed CP valves in my own irrigation system. Hey, I was learning, and that's what the Rainbird homeowner service suggested. But knowing better now, I would never substitute a CP for a DV valve... and probably never an SRV for a PGV.

bicmudpuppy
03-30-2007, 10:20 PM
I know I can get on a irritrol tangent sometimes (love their clocks and rotors), but the 2400's have got to be some of the most reliable lower end resi valves ever produced that are still in production. I'll take a 2400 over a DV or any Hunter 1" any day. Need to upgrade? The 204/205 series valves are the best, IMHO, at dirty water apps and higher pressure installs. BTW, I do like the DV, but if your in a very high pressure area, the DV's do have problems too.

oh, and yes Haze, the Century series are even better, but your not going to sell that price point to resi customers.

londonrain
03-30-2007, 10:34 PM
You can put a PGV top and diaphragm on a SRV bottom...

Remote Pigtails
03-30-2007, 10:54 PM
I know I can get on a irritrol tangent sometimes (love their clocks and rotors), but the 2400's have got to be some of the most reliable lower end resi valves ever produced that are still in production. I'll take a 2400 over a DV or any Hunter 1" any day. Need to upgrade? The 204/205 series valves are the best, IMHO, at dirty water apps and higher pressure installs. BTW, I do like the DV, but if your in a very high pressure area, the DV's do have problems too.

oh, and yes Haze, the Century series are even better, but your not going to sell that price point to resi customers.

I will agree with you on both the 2400 and of course the irrigation work horse the 205. The early 2400 as well as the early DV had their problems but are now as reliable as you can get. I prefer the DV because it shuts off at very low flow rates. I've had 205's that continued to stay open at flow rates of less than 1 gpm. I can't bring myself to trust a jar top completely.

PurpHaze
03-30-2007, 11:14 PM
oh, and yes Haze, the Century series are even better, but your not going to sell that price point to resi customers.

The Century Plus valves (at close to $90 for a 2" valve) are definately commercial grade. Resi valves wouldn't last in our applications. :)

DanaMac
03-31-2007, 12:32 AM
I know I can get on a irritrol tangent sometimes (love their clocks and rotors), but the 2400's have got to be some of the most reliable lower end resi valves ever produced that are still in production. I'll take a 2400 over a DV or any Hunter 1" any day. Need to upgrade? The 204/205 series valves are the best, IMHO, at dirty water apps and higher pressure installs. BTW, I do like the DV, but if your in a very high pressure area, the DV's do have problems too.

I have to work on the 2400 more than probably any other valve. Sticking open, sticking closed, weeping past diaphragm. And in the spring the most common thing I find is that the plunger won't move because something happens inside the solenoid that prevents it from moving - freezing must expand something in there. But the thing is, they are the easiest thing to work on so I don't really complain about them. But yes, they are the valve that I find fails more than any other.

BSME
03-31-2007, 08:24 PM
I'll agree that I probably service the 2400 more than any other valve... but to be fair I think there are more of that valve in the ground than any other in my area..

Dirty Water
03-31-2007, 08:33 PM
Ditto on the 2400. Most problematic "good valve" we have serviced. Easy to service, but still does not compare to DV reliability.

Wet_Boots
04-01-2007, 09:13 AM
What problems did you see in the 2400? I have fairly good results with them, but I came to them later, having preferred the old Richdel R204, and its Irritrol descendents. (By the way, the 2400 had some serious issues when it first appeared from Richdel, that were resolved before Hardie became the owner of the line)

DanaMac
04-01-2007, 09:24 AM
What problems did you see in the 2400? I have fairly good results with them, but I came to them later, having preferred the old Richdel R204, and its Irritrol descendents. (By the way, the 2400 had some serious issues when it first appeared from Richdel, that were resolved before Hardie became the owner of the line)

Like I said, the solenoid is a major problem. If you look at the top, you'll see the flat silver disc. I believe that water gets inside the solenoid, and when it freezes, it expands inside. That disc will bubble out, and also into the chamber that the plunger needs to move in, not allowing it to jump up and open the valve. When I look into a valve box, and if I see that little bubble, I know the valve is going to have problems. I have to carry at least a couple dozen replacement solenoids. I also see them short out more than others.

The diaphragm can get pinched when tightening the top. It also tends to get a dimple very easily if any debris gets in the valve. Making water weep through. I've also gotten called out for water in the valve box, and it's a simple tightening of the top.

But for some reason, I like this valve. I think it is due to the simplicity of it. Easy for me to service.

Wet_Boots
04-01-2007, 09:45 AM
I was going to disqualify the solenoid from my question, but was too lazy to type all that. I've only suffered failures like that on antisyphon valves, and no such failures recently, so I'm not sure when that flaw slipped in. Maybe digging deeper valve boxes has saved me from some solenoid grief.

I haven't had many diaphragm or loose top problems. One benefit of my crowded manifolds, is that I usually rotate the covers to have the bleed screws in a convenient position, and have to retighten the cover ring. Loose cover screws were the bane of the old antisyphon valves. Not that they weren't more-or-less tight, but sometimes they needed to be even tighter at high static pressures.

SprinklerGuy
04-02-2007, 07:29 AM
I guess I'm winterizing too effectively.....I never see this solenoid problem....

;)

bicmudpuppy
04-02-2007, 07:56 AM
Like I said, the solenoid is a major problem. If you look at the top, you'll see the flat silver disc. I believe that water gets inside the solenoid, and when it freezes, it expands inside. That disc will bubble out, and also into the chamber that the plunger needs to move in, not allowing it to jump up and open the valve. When I look into a valve box, and if I see that little bubble, I know the valve is going to have problems. I have to carry at least a couple dozen replacement solenoids. I also see them short out more than others.

The diaphragm can get pinched when tightening the top. It also tends to get a dimple very easily if any debris gets in the valve. Making water weep through. I've also gotten called out for water in the valve box, and it's a simple tightening of the top.

But for some reason, I like this valve. I think it is due to the simplicity of it. Easy for me to service.

I've never seen the solenoid problem your describing. Maybe we just don't get cold enough deep enough here, and ASV valves are so rare as to not make it an issue. The other problems you describe fall into my definition of installation/operator error, and I don't count that against the equipment. If operator/installer error counts, then the DV isn't much better in my experience. Biggest difference is the DV fails right away before the idiot who caused a problem can make get his tail lights lit. The rubber in the DV is very suseptible to primer damage. Even a sloppy prime job on the MA can cause diaphram damage. The seat may be thicker/more resilent, but the rest of the diaphram is much thinner, and I don't think the DV holds up near as well to system initiation in high pressure areas (water hammer with systems approaching 100 psi). Put more than 100psi constant on a DV and you get to do something different quickly. In high pressure areas, I see a lot of PE master valves with DV zone valves. This helps the problem a lot.

bicmudpuppy
04-02-2007, 08:00 AM
For ease of service AND durability to installation ignorance, you might have to give the NELSON 4-bolt a thumbs up. They have had bad runs of rubber, crappy solenoids that fail in 12-36 months, etc. BUT the valve itself installs well and is also easy to service. Nelson has also been good about replacing all the junk parts for warranty. They even did a stretch several years back where they paid for labor!!

Wet_Boots
04-02-2007, 08:30 AM
The Irritrol solenoid problem was beyond winterizing. It seems they had a pressed-in 'core' in the solenoid tube, and there was an air space above the core that water could get into, and freeze during the winter. Winterizing didn't matter. The freezing water 'bubbled up' the top of the tube you see on the solenoid, and pushed down the core, resulting in a solenoid that couldn't open a valve.
http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=40198&stc=1&d=1122339020
Note the wire insulation color. This problem began when Hardie made the valve, and I haven't seen newer black-wire solenoids with the same problem.

DanaMac
04-02-2007, 08:42 AM
The Irritrol solenoid problem was beyond winterizing. It seems they had a pressed-in 'core' in the solenoid tube, and there was an air space above the core that water could get into, and freeze during the winter. Winterizing didn't matter. The freezing water 'bubbled up' the top of the tube you see on the solenoid, and pushed down the core, resulting in a solenoid that couldn't open a valve.
http://www.lawnsite.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=40198&stc=1&d=1122339020
Note the wire insulation color. This problem began when Hardie made the valve, and I haven't seen newer black-wire solenoids with the same problem.

Yes that's exactly the problem I run into with the solenoid.

And on the diaphragm issue, we'll have to agree on disagreeing. I replace at least 10 times more 2400 diaphragms that the DVs, and there are at least 2-3 times more DVs in the ground here. I have taken apart some 2400s to rob the diaphragm for a repair, and it was already bunched/pinched from the factory.

Wet_Boots
04-02-2007, 09:21 AM
I was of the vague opinion that it was sitting in the sunlight (with resulting expansion) that might have made the AS valves more susceptible to these solenoid failures. The underground valves seemed to escape problems. That most of those (deep) valve boxes are near foundations, is a factor that might have kept them a bit warmer come wintertime.

If you find another new 2400 diaphragm that's already flawed, please try to set it aside for a photo. I seemed to have escaped this problem, so I wonder if it was another one that began on Hardie's watch.

DanaMac
04-02-2007, 09:54 AM
These weren't AS valves for the most part. They were regular valves in a valve box in the ground. I'll put any future failure diaphragms aside.

Wet_Boots
04-02-2007, 10:20 AM
Our winters aren't as cold, so I may have some flawed solenoids that are still functioning. I still think they could make a better solenoid, and it might be that the low-current one for some Toro valves might be applicable across the product line.