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View Full Version : Which ZTR Gravely or Scag???-1st post


Bluffman
04-02-2007, 07:48 PM
Greetings. I am a frustrated homeowner mowing about 2-1/2 acres in Minnesota. I have been using a Deere 425 GT with a 54" deck. I mow high and often, most of the lawn is nice sunny mix premium. I get lots of clumping and windrowing, even when grass is dry although once its cut it seems a little wet. This is 100% of the time. The entire lawn gets sun all the time. I tried a Deere MC 519 collection cart with a powerflo and it clogged again due to the consistently damp grass. Keeping the chute up helps but only minimally. I am fairly sure that a good commercial ZT may be the way to go. I have narrowed it down to a 2006 Gravely 152M with a Kohler 23HP Command/X-factor 52" deck etc (model 991024) or a Scag Tiger cub "promo" model with a 48" deck and a Briggs ELS 24HP. The Scag is $6000. The Gravely is $5800. Exmark Lazer ZHP is too spendy and the Toro and Deere units are more also. Using $6000. as a limit, these seem to be the best units. Is engine choice an issue for a guy who will only use this thing a few hours per week? Any help will be appreciated. THANKS

edward hedrick
04-02-2007, 08:15 PM
Have you looked at Everide, Husqvarna or Dixon all have tunnel decks which

does better in wet grass. I have a Toro 52" Classic w a tunnel deck. works well on wet grass. Ed

Lynch Landscaping
04-02-2007, 08:28 PM
I would try an Exmark but next to that I would get a Scag.

Metro Lawn
04-02-2007, 08:40 PM
I am not a fan of either, but I would say go with a Scag over the Gravely. I have owned both and the Scag was the better machine by far. I run Hustler now and love them. You may consider running double blades. It should help with the cut and discharge of the clippings.

MOW PRO LAWN SERVICE
04-02-2007, 09:13 PM
Scags good,you know you never hear no bad on hustler, i have never been on one.

ProStreetCamaro
04-02-2007, 09:40 PM
I am not a fan of either, but I would say go with a Scag over the Gravely. I have owned both and the Scag was the better machine by far. I run Hustler now and love them. You may consider running double blades. It should help with the cut and discharge of the clippings.



Please scag better than gravely? I think not. Not from our experiance with both machines. And run double blades? Yeah go ahead and destroy those $200 blade clutches and put that extra stress on the spindles. Not very smart.

Sorry if I came off a little rude sounding but our experiance is 100% the opposite from yours. We have owned Gravely mowers and scags and the Gravely has always cut better. Both mowers are quality built but they dont compare in the cut department.

ed2hess
04-02-2007, 10:14 PM
Please scag better than gravely? I think not. Not from our experiance with both machines. And run double blades? Yeah go ahead and destroy those $200 blade clutches and put that extra stress on the spindles. Not very smart.

Sorry if I came off a little rude sounding but our experiance is 100% the opposite from yours. We have owned Gravely mowers and scags and the Gravely has always cut better. Both mowers are quality built but they dont compare in the cut department.

This must be a rare exception....Gravely is not built anywhere close in structure to a Scag unit. In particular take a look at the Scag hydro WB and compare size of arms, clutches, spindles, etc.....scag is much much heavier. Gravely would not hold up to crews in the field they would eat it up in the first year. Their new little 34 rider is not doing well in our market, cheap but isn't lasting. I am not saying it isn't commericial level ...they are just not Scag quality and reliability level. You had a Scag lemon.

johnwon
04-02-2007, 10:24 PM
I think that between the two you noted in your post.....the 2006 Gravely 152 would be a better buy for the money. If you were looking at a 2007 Gravely 152 then it would be more of a toss up. The 2007 Gravely now comes with a cheaper PTO clutch...I'm not sure if they cheapened anything else. But the Scag Tiger Cub in the promo version for $200.00 more than the Gravely....no, not me. I too feel Scag makes some of the best machines, but I wouldn't class their promo Tiger Cub as one of their best machines.

Bluffman
04-03-2007, 05:08 AM
I'm trying to get a spec sheet from Gravely on the 152 so I can really compare. I don't have any Everide or Dixon dealers around. One dealer about 100 miles away sells Scag and Hustler but Gravely and Scag dealers are close. That is also a consideration.

johnwon
04-03-2007, 05:44 AM
Be sure to get a 2006 spec sheet to see what you are looking at. Gravely changed some things in 2007 in the non XDZ series to keep from raising prices....made them with some cheaper parts. I have the 2006 Gravely brochure and would be more than glad to post any info you may want to ask if it is in here. I did notice that you stated the one you were looking at had a 23HP Kohler. My brochure shows a 23HP Kawasaki or a 25HP Kohler for the 2006 152Z. It shows a Warner 200 ft/lb PTO Clutch. Hydro-Gear 10cc with one cooling fan and Parker TF 15ci wheel motors. Speed 0-10mph forward and 0-5mph reverse.

dbear
04-03-2007, 08:10 AM
The 152M XDZ model has 250 ft/lb clutch; the regular 152M only has a 125 ft/lb.

http://www.gravely.com/products/zeroturn/152MXDZ/specs.asp

http://www.gravely.com/products/zeroturn/152M/specs.asp

LawnGuy73
04-03-2007, 08:58 AM
Go with Scag, I had had Gravely and personally I did'nt like it.

johnwon
04-03-2007, 12:52 PM
The 152M XDZ model has 250 ft/lb clutch; the regular 152M only has a 125 ft/lb.

http://www.gravely.com/products/zeroturn/152MXDZ/specs.asp

http://www.gravely.com/products/zeroturn/152M/specs.asp

This correct for the 2007 models, the XDZ is still the same as last year but the regular 100 series went from 200 ft/lb clutch in 2006 to the cheap 125 ft/lb clutch for 2007

dbear
04-03-2007, 01:13 PM
This correct for the 2007 models, the XDZ is still the same as last year but the regular 100 series went from 200 ft/lb clutch in 2006 to the cheap 125 ft/lb clutch for 2007

Gotcha! 'Tho I did know there was a XDZ and non-XDZ last year, I didn't realize there were two different sets of specs prior to '07.

Bluffman
04-03-2007, 04:40 PM
Thanks everyone for your input. I am leaning toward the Scag simply because the components seem to edge out the Gravely. I still intend to wait awhile before plunging in. Both dealers said they'd come out to my place to demo their units.

Albery's Lawn & Tractor
04-04-2007, 12:44 AM
I don't see why people are saying scag is so much better. I demoed both and I preferred the gravely hands down. Granted I wanted a 200 series (260 Z) but I did look at the 100 models and the 152 is a very nice machine. Personally I would never buy a commercial z with a briggs on it unless it was a big block and even then I would rather have a kohler or kawi.

Bluffman
04-04-2007, 05:15 AM
Without sounding like an expert, which I'm clearly not, the Scags clutch,pumps,wheel motors and 3yr warranty spindles all are better so I am told. I have to restate that this is just for personal homeowner use not my business. I too have reservations about the engine but 3 different Scag dealers feel it is a great engine for my needs. Not one of them tried to steer me into an "upgraded" engine. I also must add that Gravely did e-mail me specs on the 152M which is apparently a 2006 but with mostly 2007 parts from what I can gather. I seems to be a good machine but again the Scag "promo" model still seems superior. I still welcome everyones two-cents worth of opinions though.

Bluffman
04-04-2007, 05:52 AM
In fairness to Gravely, I posted incorrectly that the pumps were better on the Scag. Both units use the same pumps. Also, when I said I got specs from Gravely, what they sent me were very vague specs. I can view a parts and service manual for that model(991024) on their site however and get some info that way. Bottom line is I cant get actual brands and specs on the clutch or wheel motors but suspect they are the 2007 specs. Still a little on the fence though. The Gravely is still nice but my budget is still $6000. My wife is a sweetheart but I suspect she may be close to removing one or both of my testicles. I had to have my Deere 425GT with Hydro tilt/lift, snowblower and plow a few years back. Now this!! THANKS again for all the replies, keep them coming, i still have my money

johnwon
04-04-2007, 06:22 AM
Next time you see the machines....confirm the engine on the Gravely. You did state it being a 23HP Kohler and that don't sound right to me. If it's a 23HP then should be a Kawasaki, If it's a Kohler then it should be a 25HP. As for the machine having 2007 parts??? I would not count on the people you talked on the phone with or answered your e-mail sending you the right information. Most likely all they can get their hand on is the current info for 2007. But saying that....I would want to be very sure of it before I bought it. The dealer should be able to let you see the parts manual for that unit, I'm talking about the one that they will give to whoever buys that unit and read the clutch specs. But I have to agree if it is made like the 2007 152Z then that would be one strike against it when adding all things up. I did see in my 2006 parts manual that it covers the 152Z models 991017 for the 23HP KAW and model 991018 for the 25HP KOH. So your part number maybe a 2007??? Also do a search and check out the Scag Tiger Cub...I'm pretty sure some people have bought the non promo unit for right at $6,000.00 and the promo for under $6,000.00 It mabe you can talk the dealer down on price seeing it may too be a 2006 model with the 24HP Briggs rather than the newer 26HP Briggs. I myself would rather try and work a dealer down on price for the non promo Tiger Cub. The promo unit has a ROPS that you are paying for that you most likely will have to remove being it will not fold down. And there are some other difference in the promo / non promo unit. The one thing that would bother me is the engine torque being a good bit lower on the Briggs machine. Good luck!!

james mcdonald
04-04-2007, 01:24 PM
I have been comparing ZTRs as well and have decided on the 48 inch tiger cub just because I like how it handles for my application. The dealer here has 3 of the 24 hp briggs models that he has not sold. His asking price is $5600 which initially seems like a very good deal. However, it is my understanding that there may be problems with engine that are related to the air filtration system (per a local engine repair shop). The 26 hp version has a canister type system which appears to seal much better. In any case, the dealer here has been unable to sell the three new 2006 briggs units he has and scag has gone to a different briggs engine for 2007. All of this give me pause to purchase the 2006 briggs unit, but I hate to spend $6800 for the same unit with a KAWI 19 hp engine which is what another dealer here is asking.

Bluffman
04-04-2007, 05:04 PM
The Gravely definately has a 23 kohler. The actual model number is 991024. If I go on the Gravely site, I can bring up the service manual by putting in 000999 for the serial number which I remembered from looking at it. It does not give alot of actual part numbers as much as Gravely stock numbers. It is considered a "non-current" model. The dealer refered to it as a special edition they showed at the fair, presumably our 2006 state fair held in August.

The scag engine is still a question but again, 40-50 hours a season maybe??

johnwon
04-04-2007, 06:10 PM
I'm thinking that machine is the Gravely 90th anniversary special 152Z. They did have one that was priced just at or under $6000.00
It had a 175 ft/lb PTO clutch and the engine was different than the regular 152Z models in 2006. I can't remember what the engine was, but a 23HP Kohler sounds about right.

Bluffman
04-04-2007, 06:39 PM
Well, a 175lb clutch on gravely vs. a 250lb clutch on the Scag. A 54" XFactor deck on the Gravely vs. a 48" Vector+ on the Scag. Scag spindles have a 3 yr warranty, Gravely has an edge on the motors, Kohler 23 vs. Briggs 24 ELS. Wheel motors ???, pumps the same. Both seem well built in the frame. Scag maybe a bit better in the parts etc. Still the same dilemas. I like the idea of trying to work the dealers on price of better engine options. One dealer does have a Tiger Cub 48" with a 19HP Kawi but it has the old deck style which does not have the big opening of the Vector+. I think the Vector plus deck will disperse my clippings better which is one of the main reasons I need to upgrade to this type of mower to begin with.

WHAT TO DO???

wall
04-04-2007, 06:57 PM
Go find a Tiger Cub with the 48Ē Velocity Plus Cutter Deck and 19hp Kawasaki and go home and mow the grass. That's what I did. Get the oil and filters for your first service while you are at the dealer thatís my only regret. I have never had so much fun mowing the lawn!

johnwon
04-04-2007, 10:15 PM
How much money is the new 2007 promo Tiger Cub with the 26 Briggs ELS? If they are both the same price....look harder at the 2007 model. But if you can find a true 2006 Gravely 152Z with the good 200 ft/lb clutch, that would be a worthwhile machine to try and get a good deal on too. You never know...you may be able to work out a good deal on the non promo Tiger cub in model year 2006 or 2007. Good luck

MANOFSTIHL
04-04-2007, 10:39 PM
What about the new Freedom Z? If you are not using this mower commercially the Scag Freedom Z is available with a 19hp Kawasaki 48" for $5249 or 52" for $5449.

The Promo ($5995) machine is built a lot tougher but has the Briggs engine. It does drive better than the Freedom (and most other Zs). Be sure to demo some machines before buying. Some operate MUCH smoother than others. The promo model also has the cast iron spindles which IMO is more important than an engine that can always be replaced with a Kohler or Kaw.

What kind of $ did the dealer want for the 19/48 cub with the old Advantage deck? It is probably the most proven Z in my market...

Bluffman
04-05-2007, 05:06 AM
I have to check on pricing on the older unit

Bluffman
04-05-2007, 05:27 PM
Pretty much made up my mind. The dealer with the older dec/19 kawi will sell it for $5950. The "promo" 24 briggs i got down to $5750. A new "promo" 26 briggs will be $6150. The dealer still swears the 24 is more than adequate. I will sleep on it a few days but think I'll go for the new '07 26Hp. Thanks