Cheap labor

[Chip]

Here in southeast Pa we have a rather large amount of mexican laborers. I'm sure not all are here illegally but have heard through the grapevine that many are and work only for cash paid daily. They work as landscapers by day and wash dishes by night. Was told this by a very reliable source that said I could have one too. Starting to be underbid by other landscapers that use this type of labor. Anyone else experiencing this type of problem?

[Scraper]

Hey Chip. SE PA here too over in Delaware County. I think I've seen it, but haven't felt it in that way. I actually took a lawn from a high school kid that was using them as the customer was not happy that his laborers could not understand her. If I knew that someone was definitely doing it....I'd be the first on the phone to report them! All we need is more illegals taking money from Americans that can work. Albeit many are too damn lazy to work. I was thinking about loooking into the PA program where they give you a tax break for employing people coming off of welfare. Still thinking though.<p>I've also noticed a lot of the mexican laborers running around in their ragtag pickups with no gate and the mower ready to fall off the back. Think they're insured and collecting sales tax? Bet not!

[lawrence stone]

What's wrong guys not enough work in Phila.?<p>If guys who just came off the boat are your<br>competition you need to think about moving up the lawn care food chain.<p>Maybe it is time to reflect on your career choice.

[Twotoros]

In Yakima,Wa. we have 65k hispanics as of last census('90) . That is out of a total county pop. of 275,000. Now those #'s are much higher . Have I lost biz? YESYESYES. Not only have I lost biz but the wage scale because of abundent labor is in the crapper and always has been . most of us blame the apple farmers for bringing in cheap help 20 years ago. this all means we work for underpaid people and it reflects in what the lawn guys charge . I have lost 10 accts this season . Not to hispanics but scabs . They are charging prices that I charged in 1986 when I started .A lot of the hispanics that have been around awhile have got into the biz and are not at all cheap but the customer thinks they are<br>and are hiring them for pretty good prices . They have crews made up of illegals and are raking their countrymen over the coals . So we got it coming at us from both ends . I could scream . Oh I just did,sorry. <br>By the way don't move here cause what's going on here will be everywhere soon . I think I'll move to Mexico!!

[Toddppm]

why worry about it?If you're doing quality work you should have more than you can handle and then you'll wish you had a couple of those guys. I use them when i need somone on short notice they dont take less than $9/hr.and usually worth it. they gather at a couple places in the hundreds around here.We have a huge percentqage of hispanics in this area. Funny if you get there late in the morning they're all gone. I know of a construction co. that has a driver pick up about 40-50 at a time in a bus. I don't think they are taking work from anyone that wants it at all , if they wanted to do the work they're doing they'd have a job no problem. They have families to feed too , even if they're not in this country, let them send their money out of the country, so what.

[Twotoros]

Toddppm, I do do quality work . When I do work for less than it's worth and someone comes along for less year after year . That's what I'm saying . example: I bought some accts this year from another service who was scaling back .I lost 10 to undercutters . One was 19$ should have been 24$ some took it away for 14$. Another was 18$ also should have been24$ -taken for 10$ -1was 16 $ taken for 10 . All these ex-customers said I did good work BUT.......... . These were not hispanics who took these accts . People willing to work for 1985 prices are screwing it up . If you lived a depressed area you would see what I mean . And yes this may be my last season here .

[Scraper]

Stone...no offense, but didn't you see I said I took a lawn from them? Not only did I take the lawn, but I get $20/cut more than they did. That's the kicker that we're talking about! They're out there not paying their &quot;dues&quot; (i.e. collecting sales tax and insurance) so they can charge less.<p>I am originally from your neck of the woods so I know that you have not to worry about this crap, but down here it is a whole different ballgame. I know which career I'm in and I'm not going to let some &quot;guy off the boat&quot; decide what people will pay!

[thelawnguy]

This time of year Im turning work away, and cutting loose those accounts at the bottom of the sales report.<p>I must agree with Lawrence on this one, if you guys are still scrounging for customers by mid-July, and competing with migrant workers to boot, you better go back and see if your seat at the spice factory is still vacant. That, or take a day off and seriously re-assess what/where/how your business is tanking.<p>Bill

[slingshot]

i think there is 90 percent more scrubs undercutting than mexicans

[Toroguy]

Mexican illegals still make purchases which ensures others have jobs. Since they pay no income tax and are not residents which means they have to look over their shoulder constantly. Not a lifestyle I would enjoy.<p>No situations like this in my hood...yet.

[bob]

My friend had a Mexican worker for about 1 month. The guy, who was 52 years old, never did lawn work before. Trying to teach someone to trim with a weed eater in Spanish , who is left-handed, proved to be too fustrating for my buddy.

[Stinger]

Chip: During my first year I tried to cut some homes in a nice neighborhood along the river. There was a Hispanic with 3 or 4 Snapper and Toro 21&quot; machines working out of the back of his truck. Needless to say all his helpers were illegals. This guy was cutting $300,000 and up hillside homes for $35 to $45 a pop and had every other house on the block.After working this neighborhood for one year my quality workmanship, prompt service, or nicer equipment didn't even matter. So instead of going nowhere I went where the money is. All it takes is one good paying commercial account or that highend residental customer that wants to keep up with the Joneses at whatever the cost. This allowed me to purchase a new truck and trailer to haul bigger and better equipment which in turn gets you the accounts those guys working out of the back of a pickup will never see. Five years and 55+ accounts later I still pass the same Hispanic man with his now old and worn out equipment on my way to a better paying account. I guess what I'm tring to say is forget these low ball fools working all day for $1.98 leave em behind or you'll be there with them tomorrow.<br>

[Scraper]

Bill...who said anything about scrounging for work? What I'm saying is they cause the lowering of prices which causes people with a lawn that is worth $65/cut to think it is really only worth $45/cut. Now I'm done as this is just becoming another scrub conversation.<p><br>I should've just kept my nose out of this post as I have not been affected. Just noticing a trend around here.<p><font size="1">Edited by: Scraper

[thelawnguy]

Scraper, due respect but I was responding to Chip as this is his question, not to you so go grab a cold one sit back and relax.<p>Bill

[WorkForce Intl]

Chip,<br>I'm happy to see that you distinguish between legal and undocumented Mexican laborers. You, as everyone else, know there is a difference. So my question is why do landscape companies continue to hire the undocumented? You mention that you are being underbid by companies that do hire them, well you have a right to be upset. The problem is you seem to be upset with the undocumented workers, and not the ones responsible for seeing that their employees meet the requirements of the law. I agree with you, this should not be the case, but until businesses make a greater effort to require their employees to be legal you will have this to deal with. Believe me, if the undocumented workers can't find a job they will move on. <br>Now about those that work as landscapers by day and dishwashers by night. Ask yourself this, is the motivation that man has the kind of motivation I need in my workers? Landscaping is a very physically taxing job. When someone does that all day, then turns around and goes to a second job that says something about the character of that person. If they are legally here these are the kind of employees that you need, if not, do your part and don't hire them.<p>Elisama

[Chip]

Scrapper here in montgomery county. We are seeing a lot of illegals. Its hard to compete with someone who doesn't have the same overhead as a legitmate business. As for you Mr. Stone I gave away a $70.00 lawn to the person who under bid me on the landscape and maintenance work. I'm not begging for work,but it makes me mad to see someone not charging competitive pricing for there work. Illegal or not, anyone with high work ethics deserves a fair wage.