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View Full Version : Are the Lesco 7 steps necessary?


MrC
04-06-2007, 10:48 PM
After reading a number of positive reviews I decided to stop by my local Lesco dealer and give them a shot. They were extremely helpful and knowledgable and gave me a seven step program to follow. Are all these steps necessary (South Jersey)?
1. Mar- Crabgrass Control Dimension .10% 19-0-6
2. May- Crabgrass Control; Dimension .15% 19-0-6 (He did say I could just stick with the .10% unless the weeds are really bad.)
3. June- Grub/Surface Insect Control; Allectus .18% 18-0-9
4. July- Turf Fertilizer; 24-5-11
5. Sept- Turf Fertilizer; 20-10-10
6. Oct- Turf Fertilizer; 32-5-7
7. Nov- Winter Fertilizer; 34-3-11 & lime

Jason Rose
04-06-2007, 11:58 PM
No... I'm in a longer season climate here and only use a 5 step fert at the MOST, plus one blanket weed spray if needed.

Grub control is something that many people won't want because of price, and it's not realy necessary usually. I can't forsee the turf using that much fert in one growing season... 4 to 5 pounds of N per season is gods plenty.

But I may be wrong... Wait for another Jersey native to chime in

RigglePLC
04-07-2007, 12:01 AM
A little heavy on the fert in fall, Sept, Oct, Nov. If it rains you will be mowing a LOT. You need weed control about June and Sept. Not everyone needs or wants grub control, or insect control--and it is costly--about 4 times as much as fertilizer. Which lawns have irrigation? Which lawns do you mow?

Tscape
04-07-2007, 12:17 AM
I deliver between .75 and 1lbs of N per 1000ft2, per app. This shakes out to 4.5 to 6 lbs per K for the season (just what the state university suggests), so yes 6 applications + grub control = 7 applications. I'll sell the client as few as 4 applications if they are not irrigating their turf. It goes dormant for a good deal of the summer so it needs less. My program doesn't really look like the one you are showing though.

Runner
04-07-2007, 03:39 AM
That's about as generic of a program as you can get. Why all the phos.? Lime? For what? Is it needed? I mean, while this may be a series of formulations that may be common in your area (and the "array" of different stuff looks impressive on paper - like it s some sort of "specialized" selection or something), I can't see all the unnecessary stuff there. I realize the insect stuff must be optional, but you have one expensive regiment there. This SOUNDS like it was put together by a salesman.

Tscape
04-07-2007, 05:54 AM
That's about as generic of a program as you can get. Why all the phos.? Lime? For what? Is it needed? I mean, while this may be a series of formulations that may be common in your area (and the "array" of different stuff looks impressive on paper - like it s some sort of "specialized" selection or something), I can't see all the unnecessary stuff there. I realize the insect stuff must be optional, but you have one expensive regiment there. This SOUNDS like it was put together by a salesman.

Right on, Joe.

RAlmaroad
04-07-2007, 06:35 AM
I'm with Runner on this one. I appreciate Lesco, however, their job is to sell fertilizer and and bottled chemicals. And as Runner pointed out--way too much Phos. Generally after fall soil test: a Pre-EM, spring fert with weed, wet summer weed herb, summer fertilizer with Fe and finally a fall/winterizer fert. should work. As you can see you need both dry fertilizer and wet weed control. Lesco's can't do both. Is this just your yard? If so, it would be better to just let a Pro take care of it--Less headaches.

Dreams To Designs
04-07-2007, 08:42 AM
As has been said, Lesco is in business to sell Fertilizer. The first step is a soil test, so you will know what the soil needs, not what someone thinks is a good program. What type of grass are you treating? TTTF needs much less nitrogen than blue or rye.

The double application of Dimension may be needed because some in the area may bot use a pre-emergent in early spring and you will get a second push of crabgrass, but at that point, you may have to control other broad leaf weeds as well. Perhaps spot spraying may be a better alternative. As was already mentioned, are grubs and insects an issue? Don't treat something that is not there. An application in the heat of summer, may be a big mistake unless the irrigation is adequate to keep the grass from going dormant. The 3 applications heading into fall may be an overload, better to stay with only two, depending on the winters we are having, that much top growth can cause problems over the winter months. Do you need an application of lime? The soil test will give you that information. Lesco has a very reasonable soil testing program as well as the county cooperative extension offices through Rutgers University.
http://njaes.rutgers.edu/soiltestinglab/

What about aeration and fall seeding? If it is a TTTF lawn, you should definitely be over-seeding in the fall and aeration is almost a mandate in all but the loosest soils we have, especially in new construction.

I typically recommend, after a soil test, a 5 step program, plus aeration and seeding as we usually change all the lawns over to Turf Type Tall Fescue with a little blue grass for the durability, reduction in amount of fertilizer, disease & insect resistance as well as drought tolerance.

Kirk

Shades of Green LService
04-07-2007, 09:10 AM
[QUOTE=RigglePLC;1783223]A little heavy on the fert in fall, Sept, Oct, Nov. If it rains you will be mowing a LOT. QUOTE]

Doesn't say what % of N is going down or how much is slow or quick.

daveyo
04-07-2007, 09:25 AM
I would apply your second app of crabgrass control in June (first week). In May I would be more concerned with broadleaf weeds, do a spot or blanket treatment depending on previous seasons. With that said I like doing a blanket treatment in march, it solves a lot of winter annual problems and broads like clover and dandelion etc.. Forget about the grub control unless there has been previous history or obvious infestation. Skip July, control the amount of Phos Jersey soil has plenty and it isn't going anywhere. fertilize in Sept and winterize, lime only if necessary. Figure out your N rates and don't get caught up in what Lesco is trying to sell you. Oh yea, fungus has been bad the last couple of seasons in S. Jersey, for the lawns that have been giving me problems I like to treat with a liquid (preventive rate) it's cheaper but sell it first and tell them why, I never had a problem doing this.

upidstay
04-07-2007, 11:02 AM
Sounds a little N heavy to me. I believe in the split apps of dimension. That works very well. Grub app is an insurance policy. You might not need it, but who knows? Allectus also has Talstar in it for chinch bugs, sod web worms, fleas, ticks, ants, etc. As far as lime goes, I lime every year, if the customer will go for it. We get alot of acid rain here in CT. I do a soil test, get the pH under control, and then do 10-20lbs per k yearly for maintenance. Helps stimulate soil microbes, good for overall soil/turf health.
Looking at that program, I would probably skip the october app., but the rest looks OK. Again, a little N heavy, but not bad. Be ready to mow alot, because your grass will be growing like mad.

Tscape
04-07-2007, 11:40 AM
How do you guys know how much N is in that program? It's not telling you the rate of application.

RAlmaroad
04-07-2007, 02:16 PM
Almost all of Lesco's 50lb fertlizer bags are based on about 50/7500sq ft according to label. Some more, some less.

Tscape
04-07-2007, 03:12 PM
Almost all of Lesco's 50lb fertlizer bags are based on about 50/7500sq ft according to label. Some more, some less.

You can't say from the product analysis how much N the applicator is putting down. Is he doing 3/4 of a pound per 1000 sq. ft. or 1 pound? You can't tell. To look at that program as described and say, "Looks like a lot of N" is ridiculous. Let's try to give people accurate info at least. I have no idea how much N that program is delivering and neither do any of you. That's all I'm saying.

RAlmaroad
04-07-2007, 04:32 PM
Basically what we're pointing out is that there's no need to use fertilizer to control weeds, especially in March when things are dormant. Nothing more.

tremor
04-08-2007, 06:40 PM
A "saleman's program" for sure. I should know - I am. LOL

I think its cute that Lesco no longer places Merit in the program since they didn't get behind a generic. They're afraid of the ever decreasing cost I suppose.

Seven fertlizers probably isn't necessary or wouldn't be if some decent slow N sources are used.

How much N do you need to apply?

magland
04-09-2007, 03:39 PM
You can figure out the lbs of N per 1000 with the combo products, but the straight ferts could be about any rate. A 19-0-6 is based on .75 lbs per 1000and an 18 with Merit at .5 lbs. The 30 and 34 should be 1 lb per 1000. Trying to spread it at .5 lb gets difficult. So, we have .75, .75, .5, .75-1, .75, 1 and 1. That's 5.5-6 lbs of N. That sounds like a lot to me, so I would thin down the lbs of N during the 4th and 5th steps.