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Tony Clifton
04-08-2007, 07:51 PM
Do you guys use cleaner anytime you glue two fittings together? I have almost always done so but have learned that some of my install guys only use cleaner at the valves and anytime there is a lot of dirt. Seems to make sense to me....what do you all do?

londonrain
04-08-2007, 08:44 PM
I use P68 purple primer on every fitting and pipe that is glued, I also wipe the excess glue off the joint....I give a 10 year warranty on piping so it better be right...

Remote Pigtails
04-08-2007, 09:35 PM
I use P68 purple primer on every fitting and pipe that is glued, I also wipe the excess glue off the joint....I give a 10 year warranty on piping so it better be right...

I don't give a warranty but I do it the exact same way. I truly cannot recall any joint I've glued ever leak. We use Turf-Tite for glue. A lot of my buddies just use P primer on mainline and turf-tite and Turf-Tite only on laterals. They are probably okay but I think it is a good habit to always use P primer.

Keith
04-08-2007, 09:46 PM
I prime everything that I cement. P68 and Turf-Tite

PurpHaze
04-08-2007, 10:41 PM
Purple primer and Plumb-Tite on every solvent weld joint... pressurized or lateral, regardless of pipe size. :)

bicmudpuppy
04-08-2007, 10:43 PM
I've never understood a use for cleaner in pressure plumbing. Prime and glue. I don't like one-step, but a lot of guys do it. If you use cleaner and then glue, the joint will eventually fail because you didn't actually solvent weld the pipe. To get a true weld, you must prime first. I like clear primer best. It doesn't make my hands purple. I like purple primer for any help I get so I can "see" what is going on. It is a trust factor.........and I don't:hammerhead:

PurpHaze
04-08-2007, 10:53 PM
If you put in a system that requires inspection prior to burying then the inspector had better be able to see the primer stain out the end of the fitting or you'll be tearing it out. :)

Dirty Water
04-09-2007, 12:17 AM
IPS AquaBlue on 1.25" and smaller. Clean pipe with a rag, glue. Well over 10,000 fittings, and I've never seen a blowout related to the glue.

IPS Medium Body Glue and Purple primer on 1.5" and larger.

Remote Pigtails
04-09-2007, 12:20 AM
My only problem with p primer is around new concrete. I'm always b-tching to get that stuff off the crete. If you spill the blue glue on concrete make sure they don't try and wipe it. After it hardens it will peel off in one big chunk. Speaking of concrete my other pet peeve are workers who clean the mud off their shovels by banging them on the concrete. Just recently my yard guy planted some bushes for me while I was at work. Got home and what do I see? He cleaned his friggin shovel by banging it against the side of my house.:angry:

gusbuster
04-09-2007, 01:41 AM
If you put in a system that requires inspection prior to burying then the inspector had better be able to see the primer stain out the end of the fitting or you'll be tearing it out. :)
I was about to say the same thing.

I know of 2 companies in the Manteca area that did work for the city. They used clear primer. City inspector refused to sign off on the job, even after the install company presented all the empty primer cans. Specs called for the use of purple primer.

Why they used clear primer, the person who bought the supplies didn't want to go to another irrigation house since they were out of regular purple primer.

Now why purple and not a high visibility color like you see on vest?

PurpHaze
04-09-2007, 09:17 AM
IPS AquaBlue on 1.25" and smaller. Clean pipe with a rag, glue. Well over 10,000 fittings, and I've never seen a blowout related to the glue.

IPS Medium Body Glue and Purple primer on 1.5" and larger.

So you have to carry an extra glue? We use one glue on all pipe. I was taught that 1" and smaller lateral lines really don't need primer but I still primer them anyway. Just personal choice I guess. And since primer usually outlasts a can of glue on about a 3-1 basis... sans primer applications are definitely not to save on primer costs. :)

On a different note... I've noticed that our QT glue prices have gone up about $2.50 a can recently.

speedbump
04-09-2007, 11:15 AM
Used primer once on two inch pipe. Waited around ten minutes, fired up the pump stood there until it neared shut off pressure and watched the pipe starting to come out of the elbow. Needless to say, it come out long before I could get out of the way and became instantly soaked to the bone. Never again. 25 years later we still don't use primer and we can turn the pump on immediatly after gluing with clear Oatey.

bob...

Wet_Boots
04-09-2007, 11:28 AM
Other Oatey glues can set up faster, but there is that manufacturer's recommended time delay before pressurizing, so you can't blame them, no matter what you use. On pipe that's been knocking around the truck for awhile, primer is pretty much a necessity.

speedbump
04-09-2007, 11:46 AM
Maybe for you boots, but not for me. We don't have inspections on pump repairs or leaks for that matter. Even on new installations we don't use the cleaner. I guess they don't totally bunch us in with the plumbing codes. It's just a matter of preference on my part. I don't need it or use it and I can't ever remember a fitting coming apart for any reason. (Except for a couple I forgot to put glue on in a tight fit application.)

bob...

Wet_Boots
04-09-2007, 12:14 PM
So, you just look crosseyed at the pipe, and all the dirt and grease and glazed surfaces just vanish? This is the major differences in latitudes, when it comes to PVC. Southern PVC moves quick-quick-quick, while PVC up here in poly-pipe-country can be months, or possibly years old. Fresh clean pipe is ready to glue, and old grungy pipe is not.

speedbump
04-09-2007, 12:22 PM
Works for me. I don't know about the greasy part though.

Wet_Boots
04-09-2007, 01:04 PM
Here's one example of must-prime pipe. I never use 3/4" sch 40, except for repairs, almost-never antisyphon valve manifolds, and the very-occasional three-valves-in-a-round-box manifold. The stub of pipe used there was at least a year old, and less than pristine.http://img76.imageshack.us/img76/1296/threevalvemanifold59xy.jpg

speedbump
04-09-2007, 02:10 PM
Is that a standard tee glued into another larger standard tee and elbow???

bob...

Mike Leary
04-09-2007, 03:13 PM
Is that a standard tee glued into another larger standard tee and elbow???

bob...

Sure looks like it.....whut? Amazing how some glued wrong or not glued
fittings will last & last. As far as glue, I had my crew complaining of a
"cheap buzz" when using the hotter glues, as someone who's familiar with
Lawn Genie beer, I took a whiff.....oh my! We switched to 711, a medium
body glue & purple primer...problem solved. We will use Wet 'n dry & primer
but only on a emergency or a quick lateral repair.

jerryrwm
04-09-2007, 04:57 PM
Is that a standard tee glued into another larger standard tee and elbow???

bob...Looks like an old Dura fitting. They made them nested for a while. Not sure if they still do.

Dirty Water
04-09-2007, 05:00 PM
Dura fittings still nest.

I still wouldn't do that though :P

Mike Leary
04-09-2007, 05:04 PM
Me neither....Russ & I back after talk & "maybe best to drop 1% who gives
99% of the grief"

Wet_Boots
04-09-2007, 06:19 PM
Yep, that's an old Dura tee. Old, because they came out with a new price list showing the 3/4" tee as no longer being nesting, so I bought every nesting one I could grab. Last list I saw showed it as nesting, so maybe they made a new mold, or the list that started me on a shopping spree had a typo on it. You can still unthread the valves, so that access remains.

I once had some systems with ABS pipe (CTS size) in the field, so I bought a can of Oatey multipurpose (red label) cement, and found that it set up pretty fast on PVC, while having good workability, so I just kept on using it.

bumper
04-09-2007, 10:51 PM
1" or less up or downstream, glue only. Buddy of mine with 30 years in the biz says its the set up time you allow before firing the system making all the difference, min. 15 minutes. Larger then 1" primer and glue.

PurpHaze
04-09-2007, 11:19 PM
We carry our glue manufacturer's "handle time" and "set time" chart with us. If it's a lateral line I've been known to turn it on right away since there's usually no back-pressure except in those cases where there are reduced pressure compensating devices on the sprinkler heads. Even then... never had any problems. On pressurized lines I always adhere to the manufacturer's recommendations based on pipe size, PSI to run through the pipe and temperature at time of solvent welding.

Remote Pigtails
04-09-2007, 11:23 PM
We carry our glue manufacturer's "handle time" and "set time" chart with us. If it's a lateral line I've been known to turn it on right away since there's usually no back-pressure except in those cases where there are reduced pressure compensating devices on the sprinkler heads. Even then... never had any problems. On pressurized lines I always adhere to the manufacturer's recommendations based on pipe size, PSI to run through the pipe and temperature at time of solvent welding.

There's a chart?! We use the whadda ya think. I don't know whadda ya think.

PurpHaze
04-09-2007, 11:31 PM
There's a chart?! We use the whadda ya think. I don't know whadda ya think.

YUP... Since the Plumb-Tite we use and the Turf-Tite you use are made by the same manufacturer I'd be willing to bet there's a chart on your cement as well. :)

Remote Pigtails
04-09-2007, 11:36 PM
I watched the Turf-tite rep put glue on a 1" cap put in on the pipe under water and immediately pressurized it to 100 psi. Said it was the initial swelling that caused the seal and then cured completely after that. I've never tested that but it has given me the confidence to turn the water back on in 15 minutes.

PurpHaze
04-09-2007, 11:46 PM
I watched the Turf-tite rep put glue on a 1" cap put in on the pipe under water and immediately pressurized it to 100 psi. Said it was the initial swelling that caused the seal and then cured completely after that. I've never tested that but it has given me the confidence to turn the water back on in 15 minutes.

That's pretty much the same demo I saw 20 years ago and it's the reason that both our plumbers and us switched to the Plumb-Tite and we buy it by the case. All their "TITE" products are pretty similar.

I've turned small diameter pipe back on immediately in an emergency without any problems but I'm following the manufacturer's recommendations on everything else. A 2"-8" pipe can carve a pretty big hole in no time if the pipe pushes out. :laugh:

Wet_Boots
04-10-2007, 12:17 AM
Another event that makes not priming static pressure pipe impossible for me, was the DIY guy across the street from an installation we were completing. He was fiddling with a square-pattern RainJet head. Fueled with a spirit of generosity, and my customer's beer(s), I asked him how it was going. He asked me to have a look at the basement plumbing. The zone valves were in the basement (backflow? - Ha!) and there were beads of water gathering around all the glued pressure joints. Many of them were covered with epoxy glue, in an attempt to stop the drips. Doesn't look like it worked. I asked him if he had primed the pipe and fittings before he glued them. He said he hadn't, since his friend told him it wasn't necessary. I'll always remember the sad guy with the dripping connections, and his good buddy, who glued together conduit for the phone company.

sheshovel
04-10-2007, 12:27 AM
I just use some plumbers tape on um then I spit on um and wipe um off with my shirt tail.

Wet_Boots
04-10-2007, 12:39 AM
Too bad they hadn't invented Leakender 2000 yet. Just a few sprays, and all the troubles would be gone! :p

Dirty Water
04-10-2007, 12:56 AM
I've glued a valve onto a running 2" line under water (No shutoff / gravity feed line around 40 psi from a cistern).

You just hold the valve in place for about a minute with the water runing, and then shut the valve off slowly.

Its been around a year and a half now, and it hasn't given out yet :)

Not that I would reccomend that, but sometimes theres nothing you can do.

PurpHaze
04-10-2007, 09:12 AM
We ran into a similar situation at our new HS about six months ago. We were doing some R&D on an 8" main line section that would need rerouting due to pool construction and the backhoe hit a 1" SCH 40 line coming from farther out in the field somewhere. It was not ours as the irrigation backflow was already off at that time. It was a domestic line that was run out into the main football field for drinking water.

Since the district's head plumber was on site coordinating with the contractors I called him and he had no idea the line even existed and no idea as to where to shut it down. We took a 1" PVC ball valve and glued it on in the "open" configuration under water, waited a couple of minutes and then shut the valve down. Worked like a charm but don't think I would of tried it without good quality glue. We had the line put back together before the plumber even came over and he gave us an A- for our effort as the ball valve wasn't perfectly oriented perpendicular. We then put a Christy F-8 box over it and he was very appreciative.