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STRINGALATION
04-11-2007, 02:03 AM
I would be interested in seeing others works. this is my first plan view. i have been using virtual proposals. but over the winter got my design diploma. this was my first customer of this year

http://hotimg1.fotki.com/b/64_12/116_74/HPIM0174-vi.jpg (http://hotimg1.fotki.com/p/b/64_12/116_74/HPIM0174-vi.jpg) http://hotimg5.fotki.com/b/64_12/116_203/HPIM0172-vi.jpg (http://hotimg5.fotki.com/p/b/64_12/116_203/HPIM0172-vi.jpg)

AGLA
04-11-2007, 06:37 AM
I don't want to be harsh, but you seem to be wanting a critique.

Get yourself a circle template, a flexible edge, and some various thickness pens. You need to clean up your edges, smoothness, and shapes. Drawing with different line thickness makes a huge difference. The house should be very thick (a Sharpie), driveways and walks a bit thinner, and vary up the plant symbols with fine lines for fine texture and thicker lines for coarser textured plants.

Save the color until after your line work is done. When you add color use light and shade, then pop it with shadow.

I don't know where you got your design diploma, but these are the very basics in plan drafting that you should have had in an intro class. It does not appear that they taught you anything about how to layout a plant schedule (plant list) or even to name them completely or show the symbol either. I won't even comment on the landscape design.

You have a long way to go. A plan like that is not going to generate new sales. I'd suggest using 8.5 x 11 graph paper and just pencil. A biigger plan is less forgiving and a black and white is viewed more as a sketch of where things go than a work of art. That is not a marketable plan and would make you look incompetent if you charge for it because they would project your competency in building the landscape to be at the same level that your plan drawing is at.

Where did you get your "diploma"?

STRINGALATION
04-11-2007, 09:15 AM
first off i was just curious of everyones degree of detail not really critics
but i do thank you the same. i will post a clearer pic but there are differences in the line-weight hiearchy, every plant has a diff symbol and color shade.
i agree on edge cleaning not to familiar with drawing tools. you have options on the plant list and i choose direct labeling. i was talking to a major firm here and the plans they show do not come close to this for this type of account. the residential custermer loved it and we will be installing in a few weeks. i would only use botanical names if i was designing for someone a little more formal any more detail in this one and it is overkill. you do not know the site or the plant list to comment on the design.
not bitter by far just a little explaining like i said my very first drawing.
i recieved my diploma from p.c.d.i. and everything you said which is correct is covered in my courses excitement can cause you to rush things for two years i have been using virtual proposals i my low income clientele love them i took the course so i could learn more and start to prepare for the next level
my sales success rate in my proposals/esimates are in the 90's

PaperCutter
04-11-2007, 09:18 AM
It's a little rough... if you're going to hand letter, practice over and over with traditional architectural lettering styles and consider rub-on letters for the big stuff. I know my letters look like crap over 1/4" tall, as do most people's. Also, your titleblock/ legend is too big and overpowers the drawing. I think you could beef up the scale of the drawing and still fit in all the info you need to.

Dave

PaperCutter
04-11-2007, 09:23 AM
string- if there's a community college or tech school in your area offering a hand drafting class, jump on it. If you like designing you'll love the class, and you'll be blown away by the improvement in your work. It won't just make for a better sales tool, but it'll also make for a cleaner and easier install.

Dave

FATWEASEL
04-11-2007, 10:32 AM
PRESENTATION. I know you didn't ask for a critique but ya post something on the internet and you're gonna get it. Luckily, what you've gotten so far is responses from people trying to help you do it better. Carefully reread the first two responses you got and that will get you much closer to where your presentation should be.

Some things that really stand out to me are pretty simple. Freehand lines where a ruler should have been used such as windows, doors, breaks in the concrete. Squaring up things like the house and porch mean nothing to what you're trying to sell but if the L x W is not the same from one end to the other when it should be, it distracts from your presentation.

You can find most of the very basic templates and rulers at places like Office Max or Office Depot. Sakura makes some good basic and inexpensive set of pens with different point sizes. I used to use the Pigma Micron for fine lines but they have Pigma Graphic with thicker tips.

You said that your lower income clientel love it. Would you feel as comfortable giving the same effort to someone earning 10x as much??? I believe your effort should be the same. The difference in the amount of detail or the effort of the design should be based on the extent of the job, if any difference at all.

Andy :)

PatriotLandscape
04-11-2007, 12:27 PM
Ideas for your future plans

1. Crisper cleaner line
2. Use a scale
3. My personal preference is to have both botaincal and common name on shrubs along with sizes.
4. Better use of whitespace. Create a template for the bottom rigth corner and use that area for client information and your contact information and center the actual drawing. To much writing will take away from the design.

We use letter codes rather than symbols like this

BES Black-eyed-susan Rudbeckia gholdstrum 1 gal

and the flowers would be represented with a circle and have the BES within it.

What do you mean by lower level clientel? we charge the same no matter who we deal with it all depends on how much they want to spend. same service maybe a smaller project but the margins on those are usually higher anyway.

Airwave
04-11-2007, 05:22 PM
Not very accomplished in it yet but poeple love it here have attached a pic of a recent job we got one pic of a larger install.

jmartin
04-11-2007, 06:45 PM
Stringalation,

I also completed the same course from PCDI and I really learned a lot from it. I'm sure many here will agree that there is no substitution for "real world" experience. If you keep working on it you will get better. I still have a lot of work to do as far as my site plans go to get them where I feel comfortable that they are acceptable for customers. It looks good, just keep working on them and you'll probably surprise yourself how much you improve! Good luck!

ribbie78
04-11-2007, 07:37 PM
airwave- that software is very cool. I don't really do installs but if I did I'd be using that. I actually had to do a double take :laugh:

kootoomootoo
04-11-2007, 08:44 PM
"over the winter got my design diploma"
"my low income clientele love them"
"my sales success rate in my proposals/esimates are in the 90's"

posting a drawing my 4 year old could have done

PRICELESS

PaperCutter
04-11-2007, 09:15 PM
So if this pcdi is a distance learning thing, how do you get critique and feedback from the instructor and other students? Crit is such a huge part of class (and life), I can't imagine trying to do a design or art class without it. String, can you explain your design intent? I don't understand the L-shaped planting bed down the left and am curious as to the function.

Dave

chunkitron3030
04-12-2007, 12:28 AM
to me, i would use a little more detail in your plants and such.... also, this is my personal opinion, but by judging at the layout, seems very basic and boring to me, try to maybe spice up the layouts(unless the customer wants basic and simple). here is a link to a pic of my first drawing i did for a customer that i posted on here, you may find some more info on mine as well as we may share some of the same issues i dont know, but check it out too.....
http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=182273

STRINGALATION
04-12-2007, 07:33 AM
http://hotimg3.fotki.com/a/205_188/114_43/HPIM0205.jpg (http://hotimg3.fotki.com/p/a/205_188/114_43/HPIM0205.jpg)

http://hotimg5.fotki.com/a/205_188/117_7/HPIM0203.jpg (http://hotimg5.fotki.com/p/a/205_188/117_7/HPIM0203.jpg)


http://hotimg5.fotki.com/a/205_188/117_14/HPIM0197.jpg (http://hotimg5.fotki.com/p/a/205_188/117_14/HPIM0197.jpg)

STRINGALATION
04-12-2007, 07:37 AM
"over the winter got my design diploma"
"my low income clientele love them"
"my sales success rate in my proposals/esimates are in the 90's"

posting a drawing my 4 year old could have done

PRICELESS

please post your work so i can see how its done.

STRINGALATION
04-12-2007, 08:03 AM
on the other side of those hedges is a run off about 30' wide with large brush and trees on the opposite side. this thing flows pretty rough after rain. i,m trying to understand if you can could read the plant list when you make comments about the design. alot of talk but this post was photos not critics corner although i am happy but honestly 98% of what is said i now know or even knew then. also client budget dictates everything i have found a comfort margin with my customers. according to the numbers all of my custeeeemers live in poverty but they still like to have there homes looking nice so to them the work and presentations are completly impressive i have made it to my third year and feel no limits alot of you guys donot understand the difference between facts and opinons fact i should have used a straight edge on the windows, title over powering. what confuses me the most is comments about things that are there but are said not to be. anywho i say no pic no comment show me what your talking about

PaperCutter
04-12-2007, 02:33 PM
Maybe it's just as well you didn't take a course where you had in-class critique. It's hard having people point out weaknesses. I've got over 12 years in the industry and work as a designer, AGLA is an LA- these are constructive crits from people who know what they're doing, not little kids chucking rocks.

As to your clientele- I can't see the value in the time you're putting into the drawings if that's what everyone gets. Since I get paid to create the design and plansets, the client gets a pretty picture- Arch D sized plan, color-rendered and all that. When I was designing for the sale and not getting paid for the design (just a % of the install), you didn't get color on your drawing if your job was less than $80K. That doesn't mean they didn't look pro, however. Drafting standards and good design are never optional.

Is something wrong with this thread that I can't post an attachment?

Dave

STRINGALATION
04-12-2007, 07:10 PM
please be assured i have no problem with criticizem my points are that i do not understand how some of these conclusions are reached.
as i was saying i have been focusing on virtual proposals for two years and as i came into this third i wanted some education. this was the only time i did this by hand as was actually still taking the course when i did it. on your same note for them and a 2500 dollar budget it was impressive no one cannot deny what they felt which over rules everyone else. i put that effort for myself to get a feel for what i was doing. i could not imagine an eighty k budget. very few ask for my reasoning for the decisions i made. in theory most faught the site and had not even seen it.even though i was not looking for critics, but to critique myself in seeing others works. i cannot afford or have the timefor college and 90% of who i have met have no education so i felt a little advantaged. experience will come.

PaperCutter
04-12-2007, 10:06 PM
Is your intent to be a designer, or was your course just to help you with installs?

PaperCutter
04-12-2007, 10:32 PM
Is your intent to be a designer, or was your course just to help you with installs?

STRINGALATION
04-14-2007, 12:41 AM
the answer is both

sheshovel
04-14-2007, 05:07 AM
Hope you can read this, Some suggestions for you. I could go on but you get the idea.

sheshovel
04-14-2007, 05:17 AM
Here are some examples of how it is done.

STRINGALATION
04-14-2007, 11:33 AM
sheshovel thank you for the pics
1. my directional and scale are in the top left tried for new style
2. circles are not complete because these shrubs overlap to form a mass planting
3. for the #'s look at the closeup the ones u refer to are my plant count
4. i chose not to include measurements because i was doing the install and not selling so to speak
5. that page is 24x36
6. i fully agree on tool usage i used them but not to there full potential i have templatesguide line maker t-square triangle only thing i need at this point is a flexible curve that french one confuses me
being that my course was corespondence i do not quit grasp where to place straight edges so not to overlap and things like that i am also left handed and believe it or not there is a difference i tend to smear so alot of hesitence in my movements.
your pics are excellent i strive for that level.

sheshovel
04-14-2007, 01:01 PM
You are welcome, but I got those in a Google search. My designs are private.

STRINGALATION
04-14-2007, 01:56 PM
not being a smarty but , but if they were installed are they not public now?

cgland
04-14-2007, 05:32 PM
I took the PCDI class as well and I thought it was OK. You should know about the various tools used, because they should have sent you a bag full of them. You will find I am not one to pull punches, so.......... I have 2 opinions. First the technical aspects of your drawing (ie. line width, design principles, rasters, title blocks, etc) are very poor. You have no line width, which is very important. The layout in general is very "beginner". Second, I think the design itself is not that great and I could care less what the site looks like. A quality design is evident regardless of site specifics or elevations. Sorry to be harsh, but if someone doesn't tell you, you may go on like this forever. Keep working and good luck.

Chris

PaperCutter
04-14-2007, 06:54 PM
string- first off, every designer has a different take on his or her design documents and who owns them. If I were to extend your argument further, that'd be like me going to Porsche and saying "your car is in my neighbor's driveway, give me all your documentation to build one." The construction docs could be simple sketches, or they could contain info that the designer spent a lot of time researching and developing- why share that for free?

Second, if your goal is to be an actual designer- this isn't the way. If this is the path you want to take, your best bet (if you don't want real schooling) is to go work for a design/ build firm. Work with someone who will give you opportunities to do design, and who will tell you everything you do right and everything you do wrong on every drawing you do. The reason I asked for clarification on the L-shaped bed is that I would hope you would never plant a bed in a row like that. Stagger your plantings, layer your plant material by height and texture, create some depth. Just because you're screening something that makes a straight line, doesn't mean you then plant in a straight line.

You clearly have a desire to do this. I have no idea as to where you are in your career, but if you can afford to take a step back and learn from someone who knows what they're doing, it'll make a huge difference. When I moved to VA I took a 50% pay cut to work for what I saw as the best design/ build firm here. I was ok with my work before; now I have a freelance practice and I know in my heart that I'm putting out good work. Seriously, think about finding someone to train you or mentor you. I think it's the best way.

Dave

sheshovel
04-14-2007, 07:09 PM
not being a smarty but , but if they were installed are they not public now?
My clients own them.

DLCS
04-24-2007, 12:37 AM
My clients own them.



You mean to tell me that you have been in business 15 years and don't have any design plans that you can post? Every single design that you came up with was sold to the customer? B.S.

DLCS
04-24-2007, 12:45 AM
String,


I think its fine for a simple install. The busiest landscapers in my area, just draw up plans of that size right on site. I'm not a landscaper but around here you really don't see fancy drawings like Sheshovel posted.

DLCS
04-24-2007, 12:47 AM
"over the winter got my design diploma"
"my low income clientele love them"
"my sales success rate in my proposals/esimates are in the 90's"

posting a drawing my 4 year old could have done

PRICELESS


Lets see some of your drawings and actual pictures of the completed work to match drawing.

PatriotLandscape
04-24-2007, 07:52 AM
You mean to tell me that you have been in business 15 years and don't have any design plans that you can post? Every single design that you came up with was sold to the customer? B.S.

I don't know about you but I don't design for a customer that hasn't constracted me to do so. Making every design owned by that customer.

PaperCutter
04-25-2007, 09:21 PM
I have a clause in my design contract that allows me to use the design, photos of the design, and any awards won for the design in my portfolio and marketing materials, with the understanding that the client will not be identified by name without written permission. Don't know how that would apply to this forum, which is why I've held off. Here's a quick sketch I was playing with for a job- since it's a draft I'm assuming it's cool.

Dave

Vikings
04-27-2007, 09:02 PM
Your side walk is crooked *rolleyes

PaperCutter
04-27-2007, 09:55 PM
oh, crap! how did I miss that? :laugh:

Dreams To Designs
04-28-2007, 10:43 AM
Dave, I know why, "that's what the customer wanted"!

Kirk

leaflandscape
04-28-2007, 02:18 PM
Do you guys tend to colour every plan you do, or do you leave them in b&w. We don't colour anything anymore, because none of the competition bother.

PaperCutter
04-28-2007, 08:49 PM
I color render 95% of my plans, because I'm getting paid solely to create the design. The ones I don't render are either revisions (and there I *might* color the revised part, just for clarity) or else quick drawings for clients who I'm consulting for but not getting a full design fee from. But if a client is paying for a plan, it'd better look pretty.

Dave