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Outdoor Creations
04-11-2007, 03:28 PM
Just wondering on a bid I am doing, I cant use a skidsteer have to wheelbarrel the rock in. What would be a decent rate for doing this per yard???

Travel'n Trees
04-11-2007, 04:51 PM
It depends if you have to go, travel time. Each yard should take on average 20 minutes or less to put down.

Mike Fronczak
04-11-2007, 06:33 PM
Twenty minutes for a yard of stone? That would be somthing to see. I ussally figre an hour per yard for mulch (From trailer, to installed raked etc.) & I believe that is pretty much industry standard (I know I can do about 2 per hour normally, but that's me hustling under ideal conditions). With out seeing the job site I couldn't tell you how long but definatly more than 20 minutes.

Travel'n Trees
04-11-2007, 06:41 PM
Why? How do you do it?

markam70
04-11-2007, 09:21 PM
if someone can do 10 yds of mulch in an hr, then 1 yd of stone in 20 min should be nothing.

hosejockey2002
04-12-2007, 12:23 AM
Personally, I can shovel, wheelbarrow and install about a ton an hour of stone without completely killing myself. I'm 40 and am reasonably fit for my age. If you're young and an animal, you can probably do more. If you're fat or just really out of shape, you'll do less.

anthonyr
04-12-2007, 12:28 AM
On a good day I can shovel about a yard of rock in about 20-30 minutes. Thats just throwing it out of the trailer where it will lay. If you plan on using a wheelbarrel, it will take you 2-3 times longer depending on how far you have to take the rock. Add time for hills, stairs, etc... Then, depending on how many yards, it will take longer because, well,.... it's exhausting!!! Make sure you have a really good wheelbarrel, cause rocks a lot heavier than you would think!!!

sheshovel
04-12-2007, 12:37 AM
It depends if you have to go, travel time. Each yard should take on average 20 minutes or less to put down.

Oh really? T
Please tell me how many yards of rock you have loaded into a wheelbarrow, say from the ground into a wheelbarrow and moved and put down in 20 minutes?
I say none.
45 min to an hour or more, depending on site conditions, if it is coming off a truck into a wheelbarrow or off the ground into a wheelbarrow, if you are wheeling it uphill or down and distance you have to go and how strong you are, all factor into that equation. Eat your Wheaties and don't rush when you are hand moving rock.

Travel'n Trees
04-12-2007, 04:25 AM
Sheshovel Out of a truck, scooping with a shovel is so much wasted time,and unprofessional, and if it was on the ground just load it in to a truck. I currently have 24 tons on the ground I will wheel and dump it one truck, use one loader to load truck and be done around 4-5 hours, easily with 4 people on the job. Mike why would you even use a trailer dump it in the back of a pickup truck it would be better, if you don't have a dump truck, I can do it any time in the next week if you want to come and learn, I have two more truck loads coming in the next week.

Duekster
04-12-2007, 05:26 AM
Assuming River Rock

24 tons / 5 hours = 4.8 Tons per hour.

4.8 tons / 4 people = 1.2 tons per man hour.

Not quite 0.3 man hours per ton.

I think I would estimate 1 ton per hour and hope for 1.2.

Also with 4 guys it is easier. Two loading and two running. Not the same as a solo job.

The Devil is in the details.

AGLA
04-12-2007, 06:45 AM
You also have to remember that you will only have aout 3 cubic feet of stone in a wheelbarrow vs. 6 of mulch - not that you are not a beast, but it won't heap and the tires can't handle it.

Idealtim
04-12-2007, 11:46 AM
24 tons of rock? By hand? Power wagon anyone?

PatriotLandscape
04-12-2007, 11:49 AM
rent a dingo

Mike Fronczak
04-12-2007, 12:31 PM
Mike why would you even use a trailer dump it in the back of a pickup truck it would be better, if you don't have a dump truck, I can do it any time in the next week if you want to come and learn,
I have a dump trailer & flat bed dump. I use the trailer because I can carry 8-10 yards of mulch (6'x12' with 4' sides). I was talking about if you are wheelbarrowing it. Personally I would never do the job that way, as I have two Bobcats (773 & 873), and a Dingo 222 sitting here. But that is how I would have estimated it. I have spread 22 tons in my shops lot in a couple hours with one of the bobcats, but thats not what he was asking for (I don't belive this is a paving form) I assumed he ment into beds, onto fabric & around shrubs. I didn't want to see him loose his shirt on the bid.

Travel'n Trees
04-12-2007, 04:02 PM
Mike no you aren't in a paving forum this is in landscaping beds and I would only load my dump truck with the loader, and wouldn't you have to scoop it with a dump trailer? I'm lost you have done rock in a bed before right?? I have two dump trailers using them is a waist of my time I haven't even seen them in two years, they were a waste of my money, I loaned to my relatives, I wouldn't use them. It was raining here the driver couldn't dump where the other drivers dump decorative rock so I took to the jobsite 4 miles away and unloaded it there.

TFmike
04-12-2007, 04:07 PM
we can do rock into beds as quick as bark, IF we can get a truck close and 2 can use a coal shute (black top schute) to fill the wheel barrows. I have seen 2 guys wheel away 5.5 - 6 ton in a 1/2 hour many times.

unit28
04-12-2007, 05:53 PM
http://www.loadhandler.com/images/lh3000_01.jpg
Anyone ever use a loadhandler?

Travel'n Trees
04-12-2007, 07:41 PM
Exactly tfmike it isn't rocket science and older than most landscapers, today. Unit what do you use the loadhandler for?

Charlie Sierra
04-12-2007, 07:43 PM
Hi Guys,

Experience of the forum noted, this is what I have found in my modest experience:

A truck is a crew served proposition.

Regardless of job, there is a practical limit to what one truck with a cab full of good men can do.

My general rule (based on a full sized pickup with sideboards e.g. 3/4 or 1 ton SRW), is send one truck and two men to the job. Add one man for every 30 yards from the truck, add one man if there is a hill on the job and immediately add one man for any stairs or fences/walls (IIRC, General Picket got his unit shot out from under him over the delay caused by a mere fence and in general such terrain eats labor).

As far as mulch, gravel, soil, and some rock are concerned, this rubric seems to provide the assets to easily prep an area and handsomely install a ton or more of material an hour.

If the job is huge, I sub out some of the hauling, rent a dumping trailer and/or add labor inputs as needed.

I figure one man to load, one man to run and one to install is the basic proposition with "barrow runners" added at a rate that insures the continuous flow of materials regardless of obstacles and terrain.

Ultimately, when I appraise my distribution of assets, I am essentially a trucking company so I am very keen on smoothly moving quantities of material which is why I tend to be heavier rather than lighter on labor inputs.

Accuracy, smoothness and speed are the key in that order, IMO.

Regards,

William

sheshovel
04-12-2007, 08:05 PM
Sheshovel Out of a truck, scooping with a shovel is so much wasted time,and unprofessional, and if it was on the ground just load it in to a truck. I currently have 24 tons on the ground I will wheel and dump it one truck, use one loader to load truck and be done around 4-5 hours, easily with 4 people on the job. Mike why would you even use a trailer dump it in the back of a pickup truck it would be better, if you don't have a dump truck, I can do it any time in the next week if you want to come and learn, I have two more truck loads coming in the next week.

I am afraid you misunderstood me.

markam70
04-12-2007, 09:57 PM
Mike no you aren't in a paving forum this is in landscaping beds and I would only load my dump truck with the loader, and wouldn't you have to scoop it with a dump trailer? I'm lost you have done rock in a bed before right?? I have two dump trailers using them is a waist of my time I haven't even seen them in two years, they were a waste of my money, I loaned to my relatives, I wouldn't use them. It was raining here the driver couldn't dump where the other drivers dump decorative rock so I took to the jobsite 4 miles away and unloaded it there.

http://www.lawnsite.com/showthread.php?t=172586

i'm still waiting for you to show up and spread the 10 yards of mulch in an hr like you claim. while you're here, you can do the yard of stone in twenty minutes too.

if you're going to lie, at least make it believable.

gammon landscaping
04-12-2007, 11:55 PM
i think that one thing you need to give some thought to is size of the stone. i like to use stone under decks where plants won't grow and no need for mulch. when i get the small stone 1/2 inch size we can move alot of material quick, but when i was talked into using 2 in stone it killed us. you can't shovel the stuff and 20 ton will wear out a shovel and a labor if your not carful. this maybe part of the problem with comunacation here

unit28
04-13-2007, 08:30 AM
Exactly tfmike it isn't rocket science and older than most landscapers, today. Unit what do you use the loadhandler for?

I bought one of the originals before they came out with the contractor duty one. It broke a plastic clip after tons of use. I just bypassed it and tied off to the bar, it's still kicking butt. I'm not sure how well the heavy duty ones work,
I havn't needed it.

Firewood- great for just backing up to a rack and stacking it. Or for more expediate deliveries, I just cranked off a half cord and dumped it.

Mulch- My truck holds 3 yard. I can shovel the mulch off the back into a W/Barrel while standing on the ground and crank it as needed.

Rock-same as mulch.

With 3 guys - 3 yards = 30/45 min installed

Travel'n Trees
04-13-2007, 11:39 PM
Unit don't you have to scoop it over the bumper, what about the clean up, I almost always use 1 to 2 in stone.