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lawn
04-11-2007, 09:14 PM
Hi all, here is my dilemma:

We have a worker who has been with us for 6 years. There are 2 workers plus the me, the owner. This worker is passive aggressive. He owes us money for rent and taxes. We have been very generous. Do we fire his ass and take the loss or do we put up with this? Is there a third option? Any behavioral managment tips? He is a good guy but over the years there has been increasing tention between us. We have sponsored him to be a legal resident. I am tough but fair.
One of many situations is that he talks back to me, and he does not finish the job, he can cut a back yard but not the front. I think he is looking for trouble so he can play offended and walk away without paying us back
What should I do guys?

garrettlawn
04-11-2007, 09:44 PM
Wait till pay day and let him go. Hold the check and dont give him pay and just eat the rest.

THEGOLDPRO
04-11-2007, 09:54 PM
Fire him. I mean come on who mows half a yard

chris638
04-11-2007, 09:57 PM
I have had a similar problem in the past. Without knowing the entire situation, I would say you were too passive and generous in the beginning without being firm with him. I like to treat my employees very fairly, but you have to be firm with him. Take him off to side, tell him that you will start taking the money out weekly to cover the debt he owes you. Tell him that if he doesn't like it to hit the road. One thing that works really well for me with my guys is I make up job expectations and they are docked if they don't meet that. For instance, if any employee is late more than once a week I reduce their pay by $1.00 an hr. for that week. Give him the same altimatum. The next time he decides he only wants to do something halfass, tell him he will be docked a buck or two an hour. You can be friends with your employess as long as they know you still sign the checks.

xpnd
04-11-2007, 10:06 PM
Eat the loss, let him go and learn. There is a reason the military has a punitive policy regarding fraternization between officers and enlisted. It simply doesn't work. As the owner you should always be doing the least amount of work and you should always be the first one back in the truck cooling it down while the employees are finishing the work. You shouldn't be eating lunch with them everyday. Make the difference known and don't be embarrassed about it.

xpnd
04-11-2007, 10:21 PM
One thing that works really well for me with my guys is I make up job expectations and they are docked if they don't meet that. For instance, if any employee is late more than once a week I reduce their pay by $1.00 an hr. for that week. Give him the same altimatum. The next time he decides he only wants to do something halfass, tell him he will be docked a buck or two an hour. You can be friends with your employess as long as they know you still sign the checks.

Not paying me for the time I'm late is fair. Punishing me by docking my pay all week will cost you more in equipment repairs than you are saving trying to teach me not to be late. You do not screw with a man's pay. Have you ever thought of sending the chronically late employee home with no work for that day. If you are my employer, you can not motivate me to do anything you want or to any standard you set. It is impossible. The only option you have to motivate me is to change the environment that I am working in so I become self motivated. An employee is chronically late. Send him home but don't dock his pay. That will get his attention.

I don't know about you but my customers don't pay me for poor work. If my employees do poor work they are sent back out the second time, a third time if necessary, and a fourth if I am pissed and want to make a point with them. These trips are in addition to the next days work. Since I don't get paid for poor work, I do not have the money to pay them until it is done correctly. I make this crystal clear on the first day of work each year. I do not have a problem with poor quality work and I don't have to screw with my employees pay.

chris638
04-11-2007, 10:53 PM
Since I implimented that rule in the Spring of 2006, I've had one out of 25regular employees get docked $.50 an hour for that week. He was a cronically 5 minute late guy. After that hasn't been late once and still get the quality work. If you send him home a day, you are punishing yourself by reducing your labor force for that day. Not to mention your other employees that he usually works with now have more work. Not saying it works for everybody, but it certainly works well for me. What do you think you are doing by sending him home? He isn't working, he isn't getting paid! Docking him $.50 an hour for a 40 hr. week is $20.00. Sending home a $10.00 an hr. employee for the day cost him $80.00. Your screwing with a man's pay by 4 times the amount.

(wi) Roots
04-11-2007, 11:08 PM
Hi all, here is my dilemma:

We have a worker who has been with us for 6 years. There are 2 workers plus the me, the owner. This worker is passive aggressive. He owes us money for rent and taxes. We have been very generous. Do we fire his ass and take the loss or do we put up with this? Is there a third option? Any behavioral managment tips? He is a good guy but over the years there has been increasing tention between us. We have sponsored him to be a legal resident. I am tough but fair.
One of many situations is that he talks back to me, and he does not finish the job, he can cut a back yard but not the front. I think he is looking for trouble so he can play offended and walk away without paying us back
What should I do guys?

Documentation, Place everything down on paper. Have him read it and sign that he fully understands for the discripencies. While talking to him talk about the behavior and not the person. It's useful if after he understands what the problem is that he states in his own words what they mean to him. In this way you will know if what is coming out of his mouth is an understanding.
As an manager for a local company (No longer employed with) I had to stay within the laws concerning employees. To much to mention, nevertheless, how I handle it was Verbal/warning, Verbal/written, Written/time off to reflect and if not resoved let them go. But, the key is Documentation.
Now, why is he becoming a problem? When I was confronted with a problem as you are their was in my findings several possibilities to the reasons why an employee was not preforming to his/her potential: They are, 1. Lack of knowledge, training or education (here I am implying on the job, requirements).
2. No feed back, Was I giving the person some rope for safety, let them know how they were producing, were they achieving their production goal company goal? 3. Equipment, was the equipment meeting the task? ( I can't tell you how cheap my last employer was, the equipment was frustrating to work on and to use) 4. Product: was our product not perfoming and were out technician getting rubbed by the customer for our lack of product performance? 4. Are they having trouble at home. I guess I could go on and on but, Their must be some clues as to why he is behaving the way he is, maybe a good sit down will shead some light. In closing just remember Write it down! Good luck, tell us how it goes?

xpnd
04-12-2007, 09:20 AM
Since I implimented that rule in the Spring of 2006, I've had one out of 25regular employees get docked $.50 an hour for that week. He was a cronically 5 minute late guy. After that hasn't been late once and still get the quality work. If you send him home a day, you are punishing yourself by reducing your labor force for that day. Not to mention your other employees that he usually works with now have more work. Not saying it works for everybody, but it certainly works well for me. What do you think you are doing by sending him home? He isn't working, he isn't getting paid! Docking him $.50 an hour for a 40 hr. week is $20.00. Sending home a $10.00 an hr. employee for the day cost him $80.00. Your screwing with a man's pay by 4 times the amount.

You got my point but at the same time did not get my point. There is a difference. Being sent home for being late after the crew has departed is the direct result of the employee's action. "You know what time you're supposed to be here, the crew left, I'm sorry but there is nothing I can do about it." I didn't cause the man to be late. He created this situation not me and each should suffer the consequences of their own actions. I am not punishing him but he is punishing himself by being late. If I send a crew out one man short, the work load is not reduced however the missing man's pay is divided between the ones that did work. If all the work gets done, I made my money so they can make their money plus the money for the guy that wasn't there.

I guess you could say my crews are on flex time. As long as they don't show up before 7AM, I really don't care when they start. I'm not out there so if they want to start late and work late, that is fine with me. It is there life not mine.

GreenN'Clean
04-12-2007, 09:27 AM
Hi all, here is my dilemma:

We have a worker who has been with us for 6 years. There are 2 workers plus the me, the owner. This worker is passive aggressive. He owes us money for rent and taxes. We have been very generous. Do we fire his ass and take the loss or do we put up with this? Is there a third option? Any behavioral managment tips? He is a good guy but over the years there has been increasing tention between us. We have sponsored him to be a legal resident. I am tough but fair.
One of many situations is that he talks back to me, and he does not finish the job, he can cut a back yard but not the front. I think he is looking for trouble so he can play offended and walk away without paying us back
What should I do guys?

You say you sponsored him as a legal resident? So is he an illegal? If hes talking back to you and doesn't respect you as his boss then let him go. If he gets away with bossing you around now then he will always do it....

bobw
04-12-2007, 11:32 AM
1) Is the money he owes yours individually or the company's? IF it's the company's, then you might have a right to take it out of his pay. If he owes the money to you personally, then you have no right at all to touch his paycheck for it. Once we incorporate, the INC (or LLC) is a separate legal entity.

2) He's been with you for 6 years.... has his pay gone up in proportion? My experience has been that employees that start to go bad, generally feel they have a right to. Mainly its money. Think about what you pay him and decide whether he is being payed the right amount or not.

lawn
04-13-2007, 04:37 PM
You say you sponsored him as a legal resident? So is he an illegal? If hes talking back to you and doesn't respect you as his boss then let him go. If he gets away with bossing you around now then he will always do it....

Green,I sponsored him to become a legal resident. He is Legal now. He has a green card, social security and evrything.

The money that he owes me is the taxes that he did not pay for the last years. I paid that for him, so his papers can come faster, now he has to pay that money back to me. I did it as a favor.

I am retaining part of his pay check to pay back what he owes me.

xpnd
04-13-2007, 05:11 PM
I am retaining part of his pay check to pay back what he owes me.

Uh, might want to check with a lawyer before you garnish wages. You are treading on very thin ice especially if you have nothing in writing and he sees a lawyer.

Duekster
04-13-2007, 05:36 PM
Yeap, you need a document on wage garnishment.

lawn
04-13-2007, 10:39 PM
Uh, might want to check with a lawyer before you garnish wages. You are treading on very thin ice especially if you have nothing in writing and he sees a lawyer.

Thanks guys for your help. He agreed to that, do I still need a lawyer?

topsites
04-13-2007, 10:51 PM
Have you asked him to explain to you, in his own words, what he thinks is the problem? And if he says 'what problem,' well you know, this stuff with the 1/2 yards, you talk back to me, you know, I find this very frustrating, this problem.

Seriously, but be cool about it.
I wouldn't say much after that, just listen to his answer and that is that for now, give yourself (and him) time to think.
Now if nothing else, he has been given a type of heads up, respectfully.
It works a little bit like when a police officer follows you without pulling you over, if that makes any sense.
But don't be the police, that's not what I mean :laugh:

Good luck.

xpnd
04-14-2007, 10:51 AM
Thanks guys for your help. He agreed to that, do I still need a lawyer?

It can come down to he said, you said, I thought you meant, etc. In the end, the employee will have documented proof of wage garnishment and you will have nothing. Look at your problems with this guy and decide for yourself what you think he is capable of. I still can't figure out why you are spending so much time and energy on a guy who has proven he can be a real dipstick.

Duekster
04-14-2007, 11:02 AM
Maybe you should just take him to dinner and feed him a few beers then ask WTF is happing in your life?

J Hisch
04-14-2007, 11:24 AM
First employee problems are only problems if you allow them to be problems. Once you noticed the back talk and the not completing jobs you should have nipped it, but you failed too. So now the problem as festered and become worse, again you failed, stop blaiming him and look at your own managment practices. You need to pull him into the office tell him how you have let this get out of hand and it will no longer continue this way, he will not talk back, he will not fail to complete jobs and he will re-pay you what he owes or he will face termination. Then once you put this in place understand you better follow through or you will be viewed as a person he has no respect for. If that is not the case already.

ECS
04-14-2007, 11:40 AM
Let's see here, he owes you money, he talks back to you and he doesn't finish the job. Why do you need to ask what to do in this situation? He should be fired immediatly as he has no respect for you and it is only going to get worse. Suffer without him, but do not suffer with him.

You had better check with the DOL laws if you are going to reduce his pay or garnish his wages. With no documentation, he is likely going to be able to collect anything you take from him. You should also have documentation to fight his unemployment when you do fire him. You should be documenting eveything anyway, both good and bad about anyone working for you.

You are the boss, you need to be fair, yet firm and if he can not accept that, then he has no business working for you, simple as that. He is playing you like a puppet and knows that he can get away with it, because he already has.

Jpocket
04-17-2007, 10:17 AM
Take it out of his pay, maybe you can work out a deal with him say...$100.00 per week?

GreenN'Clean
04-17-2007, 12:01 PM
Id draw up an agreement for him to pay you an x amount of money each week and have it directly withdrawn from his check and have him sign it and you should be fine without the need of a lawyer.