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View Full Version : Sarcasim is not needed here - just help


americanlawn
04-16-2007, 10:08 PM
"victor" - so called 'senior member' on this site because he has hit the needed number of posts to qualify as a "senior member". Yes - that's all it takes here - just posting alot. Sean told me this. Too bad. Quantity is better than quality here.

I forwarded A COPY OF vic's his latest complaint to Iowa State University. They laughed. I did too.

Vic said "it might be hard to believe" (my company).
This was in regard to the latest update from my local "land grant University" that I posted. (Iowa State University).


I'm in my 50's now. I started with the original ChemLawn. I am a graduate horticulturist. 3000 customers. 30 years in the industry. The boys up at Iowa State have respected me for decades. Many are customers.

I am not trying to brag whatsoever. I am just trying to stick up newbies who want help/recommendations. I was young once.

It just makes me mad when I see sarcastic remarks by "so-called Senior Members" that are totally irrelevant.

Has anyone else been offended by these guys??

Tscape
04-16-2007, 10:56 PM
I can't follow your line of reasoning here. What did Victor say that you all laughed at?

And if by "these guys" you mean mindless, haphazrd business owners who would rather ask how much they should charge for their service than to actually figure out their own costs and add a profit percentage, then yes, I have been offended by them. Too many times to count.

JB1
04-16-2007, 10:58 PM
so you should have learned by now to let it go, your crying about it seems pretty petty when you look around and see kids getting killed at a university, friends dying of cancer and other things and your offended by what some yahoo types on a computer screen , now thats sad.

Tscape
04-16-2007, 11:44 PM
so you should have learned by now to let it go, your crying about it seems pretty petty when you look around and see kids getting killed at a university, friends dying of cancer and other things and your offended by what some yahoo types on a computer screen , now thats sad.

C'mon, dude. Now you're being ridiculous and moross with your sad observation. I'm just saying there should be something in place to handle repeat stupid questions. You have to go making allusions to an enormous tragedy at Va. Tech like it has anything to do with our lawn forum. Life is precious, I get that.

Victor
04-17-2007, 01:38 AM
What's so funny about me saying that It might be hard for you to believe that a lot of the members of this forum already knew about "Certainty" herbicide? That is after all what I was saying.

I find it hilarious that you're always bringing attention to how much you supposedly know about this industry Americanlawn. If you have such a vast knowledge, then why don't you take a more active part in helping these new guys who you claim to be defending? I'm not proud of the way new members who ask questions that have been discussed a thousand times are treated. I'm sure most of them just don't know about the search feature. They're new. It's not their fault.

Over the years, I've witnessed "Senior Members" help so many new applicators out, that it boggles the mind Americanlawn. Say what you want. They DO help new members. Some of them just get tired of seeing the same questions asked over and over again. That's why they snap. I'm not saying it's good that some of them snap at new members. I'm just explaining why both sides do what they do.

Take a member like Runner for example. He has such an inordinately high post-count, because the guy is always answering questions for other members. Over the years that I've been a member of this forum, I can't tell you how many times I've seen him (and other Senior Members like him) help other members out. Maybe if you'd stop bellyaching about how you want to be a Senior Member and started taking a more active part in sharing the knowledge you claim to have, you'd soon have enough posts to gain a "Senior Member" status. Strange concept huh? Oops! I'm being sarcastic again. :)

I'm sure with your propensity to distort facts, you won't admit it, but I have helped, and still do help, many more members than you. To list some recent examples, I got a PM from a member last night, who had several questions about how to structure an application business. I answered all of his questions like I always do when I get PM's like that. To cite yet another recent example... In the thread titled "Just Getting started in Fertilization," a new member (henry2617) was asking for tips on how to price his applications. Even though this topic is discussed on here all the time, I tried to PM him with some helpful information, because I figured he didn't know about the search feature. Unfortunately, his PM's were turned off , so I couldn't help him (and they were still turned off last time I checked). It's funny that I never saw you attempt to help Henry. In fact, it's a very rare occurrence that I see you help anyone.

While I do answer questions in this forum, it's on a more reserved basis than a lot of the other members, because many of the members here (notice I didn't say "Senior Members"), know a lot more than I do about this industry. That's why I elect to stand back and let them field most of the questions. The fact still remains though, that I DO answer questions in this forum. I DO help other members out. I DON'T like the idea of helping an unlicensed applicator break the law though. I also DON'T like answering questions that these unlicensed applicators would have found the answers to, had they become licensed in the first place. What about my reluctance to aid someone in breaking the law do you have a problem with?

Like I've said before. There's absolutely nothing wrong with being new to this industry. There's also nothing wrong with having questions that a seasoned vet would know in their sleep. You've never seen me say anything to the contrary. I've never claimed that being a Senior Member on Lawnsite meant a thing regarding your knowledge of this industry either. I'm sure there are lots of members here, who don't hold a "Senior Member" status that are extremely knowledgeable. I've never seen anyone besides YOU claim that having a "Senior Member" status had any bearing on an applicator's knowledge. That's a demon YOU created Americanlawn.

Here's what all of this boils down to Americanlawn. If you're such an omnibus when it comes to this industry, then why don't I see YOU helping out more members? It seems like most of your posts consist of yet another sophomoric, boastful comment about your alleged knowledge of this industry. It seems like it's either that, or you're taking yet another shot at "Senior Members."

I was sarcastic with you, because I'm tired of seeing you attack a very valuable resource to this forum. I'm defending them, because I don't want to see them leave this forum, the way many like them have before. A lot of the very knowledgeable members like them, who used to frequent this message board, left because of the type of B.S. you like to sling in their direction.

In closing... I'll say it again. If you know half as much as you claim you do, then why don't you take a more active part in sharing your wealth of knowledge? There are a lot of applicators here who would love to draw from it. If you're so concerned about new members getting help, then start practicing what you preach.

Sandgropher
04-17-2007, 06:10 AM
Its not just the Senior members that make sarcastic remarks, manys the time i have seen newbees ask a question then turn on the people that offer advice, its seems a lot of the question askers think they know the answer before they even post the question.

Turfdoctor1
04-17-2007, 09:39 AM
Let me start by saying that I did not read all of Victor's post in this thread. It seemed that he had entered a pissing contest, and it wasn't worth my time.

2nd, neither one of you are 100% right, as with almost any argument.

Americanlawn--I completely agree with you in some aspects. I feel that there is absolutely no need for some members' sarcasm and there need to talk down to other members. My experience was nothing but bad when i started reading this forum just over a year ago. It was my first year in business, and agronomically I could hold my own with anyone in the world. But, business sense wise, until you do it, sometimes you just don't know where to start. People treated me like a freaking moron.

Victor--I don't know how you can argue that some of the things you say could be taken as offensive or sarcastic. However, on some things you do have a point. I just don't know why you have to make them in the way that you do. And, you are just one of many that have the same problem.

THEGOLDPRO
04-17-2007, 09:50 AM
i dont really care what do i win???

Victor
04-17-2007, 10:48 AM
Let me start by saying that I did not read all of Victor's post in this thread. It seemed that he had entered a pissing contest, and it wasn't worth my time.

2nd, neither one of you are 100% right, as with almost any argument.

Americanlawn--I completely agree with you in some aspects. I feel that there is absolutely no need for some members' sarcasm and there need to talk down to other members. My experience was nothing but bad when i started reading this forum just over a year ago. It was my first year in business, and agronomically I could hold my own with anyone in the world. But, business sense wise, until you do it, sometimes you just don't know where to start. People treated me like a freaking moron.

Victor--I don't know how you can argue that some of the things you say could be taken as offensive or sarcastic. However, on some things you do have a point. I just don't know why you have to make them in the way that you do. And, you are just one of many that have the same problem.

No where in my post did I claim that at least some of my past posts couldn't have been considered sarcastic, or offensive Turfdoctor. The only time I have written anything that in my opinion, could be construed as being sarcastic, or offensive, is when I refused to give members who were clearly unlicensed, information so they could circumvent the laws that the rest of us play by. If I offended people that were trying to break the law, because they're too lazy to do this the right way, then so be it. If you can't understand why I, or other members would have a problem with that, then that says a lot about Turfdoctor as well.

You're not in possession of all the facts. If you aren't going to read the whole post, then what makes your evaluation of it worth a hill of beans? Had you read the whole post, you would have seen that I not only defended the Senior Members, but I also defended the new members as well.

In my post, I brought to light the fact that if Americanlawn was so concerned about the new members getting help, then why doesn't he take an active part in helping them the way a lot of members (me included) have?

lawnservice
04-17-2007, 11:57 AM
i'll admit i dont come to this message board for help nor do i come here to offer help

i just like the 'debates' on who's dog is bigger
woof woof

Ric
04-17-2007, 12:44 PM
i'll admit i dont come to this message board for help nor do i come here to offer help

i just like the 'debates' on who's dog is bigger
woof woof

Lawnservice

Darn your Dog can't be too big from your Equipment list. What no F 750 pulling a 50 ft trailer full of equipment. You didn't even list your screwdriver. :D

Turfdoctor1
04-17-2007, 01:46 PM
No where in my post did I claim that at least some of my past posts couldn't have been considered sarcastic, or offensive Turfdoctor. The only time I have written anything that in my opinion, could be construed as being sarcastic, or offensive, is when I refused to give members who were clearly unlicensed, information so they could circumvent the laws that the rest of us play by. If I offended people that were trying to break the law, because they're too lazy to do this the right way, then so be it. If you can't understand why I, or other members would have a problem with that, then that says a lot about Turfdoctor as well.

You're not in possession of all the facts. If you aren't going to read the whole post, then what makes your evaluation of it worth a hill of beans? Had you read the whole post, you would have seen that I not only defended the Senior Members, but I also defended the new members as well.

In my post, I brought to light the fact that if Americanlawn was so concerned about the new members getting help, then why doesn't he take an active part in helping them the way a lot of members (me included) have?


I change my mind.

I said that I agreed with your stance on many things, just that you are offensive in the way you say it. that's it. And, i think that is what the other guy is trying to say too.

RAlmaroad
04-17-2007, 03:53 PM
Did you notice that there's NO Southern Guys in this fight. We like it down here as well as respect one another.

lawnguyland
04-17-2007, 04:10 PM
Waaaaaaaah freakin' waaaaaaahhhh to everyone!

Victor
04-17-2007, 04:39 PM
I change my mind.

I said that I agreed with your stance on many things, just that you are offensive in the way you say it. that's it. And, i think that is what the other guy is trying to say too.

You claimed I was trying to turn this debate into a you know what match. I was just reinforcing the points I had made. The sole reason I've taken a stand against Americanlawn, is to keep him from driving the most valuable resource from this message board. I'm talking about a resource that we all derive benefit from. I'm talking about a lot of the Senior Members who help more people than anyone else in this forum. This isn't about me. This is about standing up for them.

If you have to resort to name-calling Turfdoctor, then I must have hit you really close to the nerve. Heed my warning when I tell you that the last member who couldn't come up with an intellectual retort, was banned from this forum when he resorted to threats and childish name-calling (like you've obviously resorted to).

Be careful. Believe it, or not. I DON'T want you to get banned. I'm sure you bring some redeeming qualities to this forum. Have a wonderful day. I know I will. :)

ribbie78
04-17-2007, 04:51 PM
Did you notice that there's NO Southern Guys in this fight. We like it down here as well as respect one another.

as long as they're not a http://www.farbersweekly.com/usovals/Yank%20Oval.jpg

ribbie78
04-17-2007, 04:57 PM
I don't usually read long posts like Victor's but I actually read this one and it doesn't seem like he's in a pissing contest. Someone posted a very specific topic targeting him and he definitely stated his side respectively. Nobody cares for people that are always sarcastic; but a little now and then spices things up when appropriate.

...we don't like repetitive repetitive repetitive repetitive topics and some folks do "snap" as stated before and throw the "DO A SEARCH" thing in there or say something lame; but there are more posts on here where people ACTUALLY do offer advice in situations where they could very easily have blown a fuse.

Turfdoctor1
04-17-2007, 05:43 PM
You claimed I was trying to turn this debate into a you know what match. I was just reinforcing the points I had made. The sole reason I've taken a stand against Americanlawn, is to keep him from driving the most valuable resource from this message board. I'm talking about a resource that we all derive benefit from. I'm talking about a lot of the Senior Members who help more people than anyone else in this forum. This isn't about me. This is about standing up for them.

If you have to resort to name-calling Turfdoctor, then I must have hit you really close to the nerve. Heed my warning when I tell you that the last member who couldn't come up with an intellectual retort, was banned from this forum when he resorted to threats and childish name-calling (like you've obviously resorted to).

Be careful. Believe it, or not. I DON'T want you to get banned. I'm sure you bring some redeeming qualities to this forum. Have a wonderful day. I know I will. :)


Vic,

I apologize for calling you a moron. That was uncalled for, and I sincerely apologize. I tend to get defensive when I feel that people are taking what I say out of context.

I think you have missed the point of what I was saying. I was not trying to say you, or all "senior members," or anyone in particular are bad people. I just agreed with americanlawns that occassionally people treat others like dirt for no apparent reason on this forum. I followed the thread that americanlawns was offended by, and, honestly, you would have offended me as well. Therefore, in that case, I lumped you with the others.

As previously stated, I agree with your points. but, i also agreed with americanlawns that sometimes the points made by members of this forum are aimed to be belittling. Granted, 95% of the posts by the same people are very helpful.

there is no ill will in this post, so please do not take it the wrong way.

good day.
j

americanlawn
04-17-2007, 07:01 PM
I like THEGOLDPRO. your free prize is a free lawn analysis from TruGreen! LOL

I probably stepped overboard on this, and I should not have taken it out on victor -- sorry. I get defensive when someone question's my "believability".

We rely heavily on ISU for research. The turf & hort guys have known me for
22 years. Several are close friends. They also developed our lawn care program. Several staff members have been my customers for many years. They trust my company and me. The "laughter" came from a turf dept staff member. Not sure, but I think he laughed at the remark regarding if anyone could believe me. He trusts me and beleives in me as a very reputable business owner.

I realize I offended victor. Victor....I apologize. Nothing personal. It's pretty stressful this time of year, and I gues I took it out on you. Sorry.

When customers don't want to believe us, we show them land-grant university info proving what we tell them. If they still don't believe, we dump 'em immediately.

Bottom line, I should have not made this post the way I did. I took it out on one guy in particular. That was a mistake. Thanks for all who posted. Especially victor. (and THEGOLDPRO)

Vikings
04-17-2007, 07:10 PM
Has anyone else been offended by these guys??
Yes. I can't remember names but this is the least helpful of all the forums on this site. Victor though, is one of the good guys in my opinion.


I just wish I had a spam filter for the rest, lol.:laugh:


To Paraphrase half the advice on this pesticide forum, "Get a certified and shut up" lol.

lawnservice
04-17-2007, 07:13 PM
OKAY
come on everyone...big group hug




feel the love

(sorry, guess i am being sarcastic on a 'dont be sarcastic' thread)

spring is here

ribbie78
04-17-2007, 07:19 PM
I just wish I had a spam filter for the rest, lol.:laugh:



Ain't that the truth!

Good to see you guys get through this like big boys *trucewhiteflag*

Honestly; I never know which part of the forum I'm in most of the time; I like to click on the "new post" button near the top and just check out a lil' bit of everything.

americanlawn
04-17-2007, 07:26 PM
Thanks Turfdoctor1. During my relatively short time on this site, I repeatedly see too many times where members talk down to others. I guess it's to be expected on such a large forum site, but it still discusts me.

I've been in the business for 30 years, and I have helped several people start their own lawn care businesses. I'm talkin' computer set-up, selling them my used equipment, what products to use and where to buy them, etc.

Two things:
Life is short, so why not make friends.
These guys would have eventually found their help elsewhere anyway, so why not make them friends.

This is one reason my company has probably the best reputation in our area.

I just don't understand why some people take the time to criticize members who are asking for help??? To me, this makes no sense at all. Afterall, it's not a college football forum. It's more like a help line, and I enjoy helping others. If I want criticism, I'll listen to my wife! LOL

Take dude, american

americanlawn
04-17-2007, 08:05 PM
Okay vic........

I reponded to what YOU said about ME. Nothing else.

I stated FACTS.

Your response included phrases like:
"hillarious"
"supposedly"
"vast knowledge"
"why not be more active?" (that's MY choice - not yours).
"claim to"
"practice what you preach"
"know half as much as I claim"
"so concerned about newbies"
"omnibus"
"hit a nerve"

Heck victor, I think you just made my case.

Can you now see why YOU offended ME? Look how you treat people.

Your response assumed alot about me as a person, but you don't know me.

My post was merely criticizing words that YOU said about ME as a person.

Your lack of knowledge about me gives you no reason to say what you did about me. I certainly will not assume anything about you as a person. Instead, I will respect you. I wish you would do the same for me.

Conversly, I reponded only to what you typed about me.

So don't talk about banning fellow members. Just think next time you type those keys.

If anybody gets banned, it will be due to personal attacks. Read the rules.

I expect respect from you. I will give the same back when warranted.

Personal attacks don't fly with me. Threats suck too. I don't have the time for them.

Victor
04-18-2007, 10:41 AM
First of all Americanlawn, I owe you an apology and a much clearer explanation for why I was riding your case the way I did. I'm sorry about deriding you. I put a lot of thought into the best way to explain why I came across the way I did, without being overly long-winded (like I normally am :) ).

The best I can figure, is that it was a case of mistaken identity on both of our parts. When I thought you were taking a stance that I now believe you weren't, I reacted according to what I THOUGHT you meant. I just misunderstood where you were coming from.

It's my opinion that you thought I liked the idea of new members being attacked by Senior members. I'm sure you can see now that I don't like the idea of that at all. In my retort to your initial post in this thread, I used the examples of where I tried to help new members (like Henry), as a way to show you that I in fact DO try to help them. If I see a thread like Henry's, where a new member isn't getting help with their question, I do attempt to help them if I can. Especially if I see they're getting attacked for nothing more than asking a basic question.

You're right when you said that I don't know you. I said phrases like, "claim to" and "supposedly," because I DON'T know you. Since I don't know you, I couldn't make a definitive statement regarding the validity of your statements (how long you've been in this industry, or your academic credentials for example).

I just couldn't understand why someone with so much knowledge, wouldn't share more of that vast knowledge with the new members he said weren't getting enough help. With the credentials you listed, it was my opinion that you should have been giving more help to the newer members, instead of focusing on how poorly they get treated. That was just my opinion though and nothing more. You'll get no argument from me that they are treated unfairly. Like I've said before though, the ones who just want to find out how they can circumvent the law are treated justly.

While it's true that I don't know you, I'm sure you're a great guy Americanlawn. As far as your comment about how I treat people goes, well... That just doesn't hold any water with me. I'm sure that comment was spawned from emotion more than anything else.

I really do wish you the best of luck in anything and everything you do Buddy. I really do mean that. Have a great day and I'll see you around. :)

Victor
04-18-2007, 10:52 AM
I did it again. Another long-winded post. Oh well... I guess brevity just isn't in my nature. :laugh:

Runner
04-18-2007, 12:15 PM
Just be careful....Don't get as bad I! :)

Victor
04-18-2007, 12:44 PM
Just be careful....Don't get as bad I! :)

You're much better at getting to the point than I am Joe. :(

americanlawn
04-18-2007, 07:19 PM
Hey Victor. It won't happen again. We lawn guys gotta stick together, and I appreciate the advice you provide on this very helpful site.

I'm surprised my repies did not get deleted. I bet it was close, cuz I was a little rude. Truly sorry. americanlawn. Have a great spring!

americanlawn
04-19-2007, 10:32 PM
Victor and I are now friends. Thanks lawnsite for not banning me or deleting my posts.

We are all now friends. Super site! Thanks to all who posted.

I take the blame because I jumped to conclusions. Sorry.

I will not keep this thread going anymore, cuz the "group hug" is in place now.

Very sincerely, american

Vikings
04-19-2007, 11:06 PM
We are all now friends. Super site! Thanks to all who posted.


HEY! No Sarcasm is Needed Here:nono: ..:laugh:

rshofcols
04-21-2007, 09:14 PM
victor, a sarcastic moron hmmmmmmmmmmmmm.
the Panda Coalition of Columbus reserves the right to pass judgement later while discussing Sun tzu and pruning bamboo.
phasing out round 1 of pendi and heading for the dimension door

Shades of Green LService
04-22-2007, 12:22 AM
Americanlawn, Brace yourself. If you check your post count,Your very close to becoming a "senior member":)