Help...analysis paralysis on mower choice

[chuckcintron]

Please help me...I've made myself dizzy trying to figure out which lawnmower to purchase for my home. I have just over 1/2 acre of lawn. Today, I own a John Deere 21" WB mower (which surprised me by being very problematic). It takes me about 2.5 hours to mow.

I want to get something that will cut the time down, and be an excellent mulcher. I do not want one of those typical riding lawnmowers...I don't like them, and I think they would not be too safe on my sloping side yard.

I'm in upstate NY, and probably mow my lawn about 20 times a year.

My only requirements are:

a. It has to have at least a 33" cut, and no more than 36"
b. I don't want the typical front-engine rider. Side yard slopes too much.
c. It has to be a great mulcher.
d. It has to be SUPER reliable. I take obsessive care of my tools, but I expect them to be well designed, and well made.
e. It has to be less than $1400.

I was leaning toward this:

Cub Cadet (http://www.cubcadet.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/product_10051_14101_162710_33831_-1#)

Or this:

Craftsman (http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?cat=Lawn+Mowers&pid=07188933000)

I know these two look a lot alike. The Craftsman is made by MTD -- I'm not sure if Cub Cadet and MTD have any relationship (?)

I know the commercial guys/gals here will probably sneer at either of these, but keep in mind that I'm only out there 20 times a year. However, I'm open minded and would like to really hear some other recommendations, as well as constructive comments about these two mowers.

Thanks!
-Chuck

[DCE]

I know these two look a lot alike. The Craftsman is made by MTD -- I'm not sure if Cub Cadet and MTD have any relationship (?)



MTD owns Cub Cadet.

Have you looked at the 33" Billy Goat finish mower? http://www.billygoat.com/site/intro.aspx?pid=17

Not sure about its price or mulching performance [IF it has this capability] but you might want to add this one to your list of those to look at.

[dwost]

It sounds like you are into quality and quite frankly you will be hard pressed to find something of "commercial" quality for 1400 unless you look at something used. If you are willing to spend a bit more ($2k) I think you'd be VERY satisfied with the Quick 36. It will probably last you a life time. Do a search on here and you will see that everyone is raving about them. http://www.betteroutdoorproducts.com/

You can also check out RedHawk which I know was recently acquired by one of the big guys (The company name is escaping me right now but I'm sure someone will chime in) They take some heat from the commercial guys but they will last a homeowner a long time and they are priced right. http://www.redhawk-usa.com/

[DCE]

You can also check out RedHawk which I know was recently acquired by one of the big guys (The company name is escaping me right now but I'm sure someone will chime in)

Is it Dixon? Their WB's look like blue Redhawk units :)

Speaking of Better Outdoor Products and the Quick 36, I visited them this afternoon and got to test run a Quick 36 Samurai. From what I saw, they are high quality mowers.For the price of a high end lawn or garden tractor, you can get a Quick 36.

[chuckcintron]

Thanks for the pointer to Billy Goat. Looks like a nice mower. I have a couple of concerns, which I need to research a bit more:

- Never heard of "billy goat". I realize that "craftsman" may fall far short of commerical expectations, but at least I know that I'll be able to get parts for it down the road. Could I be stuck with a billy goat 5 years from now that needs a new spindle -- and impossible to find a part (?)

- I read the owner's manual PDF on the billy goat...the belt changing procedure looks to me to be pretty complex. At one point it says "remove the four engine mounting bolts, being careful to not let the engine slide off..." I wonder if this is normal? I was expecting belt changing to be a pretty painless event...

So I guess at least I'm narrowed down to these choices. Oh, my local dealer also has a 2 yr old used Sutech 33" mower, in excellent condtion...for $600. Even though I know that they "suck", that price is tempting.

That "quick 36" looks awesome...but I can't go down the path of dropping $2K on a homeowner WB. I need some money left over to buy grass seed ;-)

-Chuck

[leejp]

Please help me...I've made myself dizzy trying to figure out which lawnmower to purchase for my home. I have just over 1/2 acre of lawn. Today, I own a John Deere 21" WB mower (which surprised me by being very problematic). It takes me about 2.5 hours to mow.


2-1/2Hrs seems long even for a 21". Is that cut/bag/trim/blow? I have just under 1/2 acre and when I do it with the 21" (my trim/backup), it's usually 1/2 that time cut/bag/trim/blow.

For under $1400, a carefully used commercial may be the way to go. I got my Scag 48" for well less than 1/2 the price of a new one. Since you're not broke (have a mower to cut with), look around and try to find one that was homeowner owned. If you are near the capital district or the Hudson Valley check out the want ad digest (http://www.wantaddigest.com/) (http://www.wantaddigest.com/). A couple of 36" commercial units for under $1K. You might have to sink some $$$ and sweat equity into these guys though. Sometimes you can take equipment to the local BOCES if you don't mind waiting and have it overhauled for a song.

[chuckcintron]

Yeah, you are probably right. I have about 25,000 sq/ft of grass. If I'm cutting with a 4" overlap, I'm getting 17" of production, which is 1.41 feet, so to cut 25,000 sq/ft I have to walk about 17,730 feet or 3.4 miles. I'm not sure what speed the JD is on "high", but even with some margin I should be under 1.5 hours.

I'm probably remembering trimming/blowing time as well. Also, the angst of not having a nicer mower is making it seem longer :rolleyes:

Thanks (and thanks for the pointer to used equipment)
Chuck

[leejp]

I'm probably remembering trimming/blowing time as well. Also, the angst of not having a nicer mower is making it seem longer :rolleyes:

Thanks (and thanks for the pointer to used equipment)
Chuck

Been there... BTW... where the devil is verbilville? I've lived in just about every corner of the state... NYC, Hudson Valley, Albany, Buffaly, Rochester, Potsdam, Syracuse and have no idea where verbilville is... Near Endicott?

[chuckcintron]

Good guess...actually about 25 miles outside of there. It's a nickname, not the real town name -- grew up here and never left...at one time (about 100 years ago) about 1/2 the population here was a Verbil or blood related to one (I'm not, and thus never really fit in!). There's only a few of the originals left in all of NY, now...

-Chuck

[Matts lawn care]

Go for the Quick 36! You can get billy goat parts from a billy goat dealer and you can get Quick 36 parts on the web. The Quick 36 is built like a tank and will outlast any of those other mowers you listed.

[Grateful11]

>So I guess at least I'm narrowed down to these choices. Oh, my local dealer also has a 2 yr old used Sutech 33" mower, in excellent condtion...for $600. Even though I know that they "suck", that price is tempting.

Why would even think of spending $600 for something when you know it sucks.

[chuckcintron]

I hear ya'...I won't be going for the used Sutech, of course...but it was tempting at only $600.

I did a lot of reading over the weekend, and I do really (really) like the looks of the Quick 36. But (gulp), $2,225 (including shipping) for a commercial WB mower that will only be used by a homeowner...is a ton of cash to part with.

-Chuck

[dwost]

Or go to HD or Lowe's and part with $2,500 for a POS that will not last you half as long as the Quick :) If you are serious about your yard, spend a little more and buy something that will last a lifetime. I totally understand but once you cut with it you will wonder why you didn't pull the trigger earlier. It's well worth it.

[DCE]

I did a lot of reading over the weekend, and I do really (really) like the looks of the Quick 36. But (gulp), $2,225 (including shipping) for a commercial WB mower that will only be used by a homeowner...is a ton of cash to part with.



Buy quality, and you cry only once :) Sometimes, homeowners spend that much money to get a lawn tractor that isn't nearly as maneuverable as a Quick 36. Plus with it being a commercial duty unit, it's built tough and will definitely withstand residential use. If you spend the money to get a machine like the Q36, it could very well be the last mower you'll ever buy. Think about it :weightlifter:

[chuckcintron]

Or go to HD or Lowe's and part with $2,500 for a POS that will not last you half as long as the Quick :)

yeahhhhhh...but you know I'd never do that...I'd only spend $1,000 on a POS that won't last half as long :p

Okay, Okay...I think I've been convinced (and convinced myself) -- commercial is the way to go.

Now...should it be the Billy Goat 33" at around $1,350 from my local dealer, or the Quick 36 at $2,225 mail-order (?)

Three things bother me about the Billy Goat: The belt change procedure looks as complicated as bypass surgery...and the B&S engine they use is the lower model Intek (no oil filter, and I don't think positive pressure)...and they only make one base model mower -- not sure if replacement parts would be available if they get out of the mower business down the road.

-Chuck

[dwost]

I haven't run either so take this with a grain of salt, but in my opinion I'd stick with the Quick. If you search on the Billy Goat I think there were several with issues. From what I've read the Quick is always getting positive reviews. I'd spend a bit more and get the Quick. They also seem to really stand behind their product so you should be set in the event you run into a snag.

[Matts lawn care]

Go with the quick. If you have any Qs pm me and il be happy to answer. The Quick 36 is much more heavy duty than the Billy goat.

[leejp]

Well I sold my Scag 48" Belt Drive and Honda 21" this past week and took delivery on a Red Hawk 36" dual hydro. I just needed the room in my garage.

I looked at the quick 36 but for $600 extra I would have been downgrading from a 15HP Kohler to a 13HP Briggs and from a dual Hydro-Gear IZT hydro to a single Hydro.

Before I start another holy war on US vs China and such. I personally have no problems with buying a mower with an engine and Transmission from US manufacturers and the sheetmetal + hardware from a Chinese manufacturer. Just like my Scag was a US mower with a Japanese (Kawasaki) Engine. Some folks may have a difference in opinion but "we've been there done that" on other threads.

That said... The Red Hawk definately looks good enough to last me a lifetime for my 1/2 acre 25hrs/year use. However, the sheetmetal, hardware, the workmanship (welding in particular) and the details (handlebar grips, electrical wiring bundle...) are MUCH, MUCH better on a Scag. If I were a commercial guy... I would definately pass on the Red Hawk unless it was for a backup. If sheetmetal, hardware, build quality (everything except the Engine + Tranny) fot the Scag is 100 and say a Sutech is 0, I would put the Red Hawk at 60~70 . For the Engine and the Tranny... it's the same Kohler and Hydro-Gear setup in other commercial mowers.

I have not seen the Quick 36 in person to comment but everyone here says the build quality is excellent.

[dwost]

Well I sold my Scag 48" Belt Drive and Honda 21" this past week and took delivery on a Red Hawk 36" dual hydro. I just needed the room in my garage.

I looked at the quick 36 but for $600 extra I would have been downgrading from a 15HP Kohler to a 13HP Briggs and from a dual Hydro-Gear IZT hydro to a single Hydro.

Before I start another holy war on US vs China and such. I personally have no problems with buying a mower with an engine and Transmission from US manufacturers and the sheetmetal + hardware from a Chinese manufacturer. Just like my Scag was a US mower with a Japanese (Kawasaki) Engine. Some folks may have a difference in opinion but "we've been there done that" on other threads.

That said... The Red Hawk definately looks good enough to last me a lifetime for my 1/2 acre 25hrs/year use. However, the sheetmetal, hardware, the workmanship (welding in particular) and the details (handlebar grips, electrical wiring bundle...) are MUCH, MUCH better on a Scag. If I were a commercial guy... I would definately pass on the Red Hawk unless it was for a backup. If sheetmetal, hardware, build quality (everything except the Engine + Tranny) fot the Scag is 100 and say a Sutech is 0, I would put the Red Hawk at 60~70 . For the Engine and the Tranny... it's the same Kohler and Hydro-Gear setup in other commercial mowers.

I have not seen the Quick 36 in person to comment but everyone here says the build quality is excellent.

Congrats!!! I agree with your reasoning completely. Post up some pics of the new toy :)

[DCE]

I have not seen the Quick 36 in person to comment but everyone here says the build quality is excellent.

Yes, the Quick 36 is top notch. I visited the gang at Better Outdoor Products last Thursday. Very convenient as their facility is no more than 15 mins from my house :) I just wanted to see for myself a Quick 36 in person after reading a lot of positive comments about it from LCO's on here who run them. I was very impressed with the build quality of the mower. And I did more than just look at one...they allowed me to take the Samurai out for a spin. Handles very well and is surprisingly nimble. If I was in the market for a WB larger than a 21", the Quick 36 definitely would be at the top of my list.

[mike lane lawn care]

just a side note on the craftsman that you listed. While the ZTR's are made by MTD, i believe the 33" mower is made by husqvarna, who also makes the tractors this year. It is a fairly good machine, after personaly testing it, i have come to the conclusion that for the money, it ain't bad. It's kind of setup like a snowblower, one handle for the drive, and one for the blades. the quick 36 is a commercial machine, which costs more, but then again, you get what you pay for in this world, it will outlast the craftsman.

[leejp]

Yes, the Quick 36 is top notch... I was very impressed with the build quality of the mower. And I did more than just look at one...they allowed me to take the Samurai out for a spin. Handles very well and is surprisingly nimble. If I was in the market for a WB larger than a 21", the Quick 36 definitely would be at the top of my list.

Where would you put the build quality of the quick 3 vs a Scag? There are definitely some very innovative features on the Quick 36.

I should clarify my comment on the Red Hawk. It's not built poorly... just no where near the level of the Scag. Take a closer than a cursory look ann there are some obvious items. The welds look good functionally but just are not as precise and as neat. Some minor items (discharge chute hinge arm) ae not welded quite straight. The major hardware (spindles and such) look to be of good quality but the minor items (nuts, bolts, linkages, cotter pins...) are Home Depot/Lowes quality. The structural steel looks as good as any (heavy gauge).

Overall the Red Hawk is not as good as a Scag but I think I made a good trade... 10+ year old Scag belt drive + 21" Honda + ~$200 for the 36" Hydro. But time will tell... I'll post a full review at the end of the season.

[DCE]

Where would you put the build quality of the quick 3 vs a Scag? There are definitely some very innovative features on the Quick 36.



Believe it or not I would say they are about equal in build quality. I didn't see anything on the Quick 36 that raises any red flags with me. The only thing I regret was not really trying a Quick out on grass to see the cut quality and the evenness of the discharge. There is a certain disadvantage to buying factory direct. If you do not know anyone who owns a Q36 you pretty much are SOL on looking at one before you buy...unless you're like me who is within driving distance of their facility. With that being said, I know its safe to say that anyone who wants a Quick 36 [or 44...] can buy with confidence without seeing one first.

[chuckcintron]

just a side note on the craftsman that you listed. While the ZTR's are made by MTD, i believe the 33" mower is made by husqvarna, who also makes the tractors this year.

mmmm....no, it is definitely MTD (who must also make the Cub Cadet version). The model number prefix on the Sears mower is '247', which indicates MTD according to this cross reference:

Sears MFG Codes (http://www.professional-power-tool-guide.com/Craftsman-Sears-Manufacturing-Source-Code.htm)

A similar check can be done on the tractors. I looked at one the other day, and it was made by AMF Industries.

I'm sure it's not a bad mower, but I have to agree with folks that have commented here; it will not last a "lifetime" like a commerical mower will. If my MTD snowblower is any sort of indicator, MTD products seem to start to disintegrate after about 5 years of normal household use.

-Chuck

[leejp]

MTD products seem to start to disintegrate after about 5 years of normal household use.

Not a problem if it would just die after 5 years. Then just throw it away and buy a new one. The trouble is the long slow death coupled with not such great operation.

Check out my $200 backpack blower thread. Someone mentioned "cry once when you buy it... or cry every time you use it"... I'm probably going to buy a Stihl or an Echo.

[chuckcintron]

Heh...yes...I'm a pretty low-key guy, but over the last years I've physically thrown two power tools parabolically across my property. One was a Sears handheld blower (which started only when it was between 72 and 73 degrees out, and no more than 50% RH). I have not yet bought a replacement, so I will research your thread.

The other was a Sears 18" chainsaw, which seemed to never start, and if it did it would die randomly (usually about at the point when cutting the hinge on a large tree -- hmmmm...let me try to restart my chainsaw while I pray that the wind doesn't blow).

I bought a Husqvarna "rancher" chain saw to replace the Sears...what a joy it is to use, it never lets me down.

-Chuck

[lifetree]

... Three things bother me about the Billy Goat -- The belt change procedure looks as complicated as bypass surgery...and the B&S engine they use is the lower model Intek (no oil filter, and I don't think positive pressure)...and they only make one base model mower -- not sure if replacement parts would be available if they get out of the mower business down the road.

-Chuck

I don't think you should worry about Billy Goat exiting the mower business ... I think they've been in that line for 20 to 30 years !!

[Capemay Eagle]

If I was going WB, I would deffiatly get the quick 36. great machine, it also stripes nice...